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That Italian Guy posted:Thanks for the suggestions! I should have probably mentioned what I already have/like to narrow it down, but I think I'll try out Sproggiwood. I was looking for something like this as my library is sorely lacking in that department (I think the only other turn, grid based rpg I have is Swords of the Stars: The Pit). Definitely dive into Cryptark, it's excellent, and every suit brings something neat to the table. Use the weevil
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Feb 16, 2018 12:37
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The interface felt a bit too clunky, considering how many times you have to interact with stuff in your inventory.
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That Italian Guy posted:Has anyone tried Unexplored and Brigador? Unexplored is excellent. It has a very deliberate feeling real time combat that feels like a top down version of what Dark Souls does with it's melee. It also has pretty much the best procedural generation I've seen.
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Feb 16, 2018 12:41
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Brigador is a stealth game in disguise. I enjoy it a lot, but its not a roguelike.
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Feb 16, 2018 12:43
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Thanks again for the input. Since we're on a roll and Immortal Redneck was suggested before: how much similar is it to Ziggurat? I've played that for a bit, but it got a bit repetitive after a while as the TTK was generally a bit too high for my taste, for a game where you actually have to strafe-dodge that much.
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Feb 16, 2018 12:45
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I keep trying Unexplored, but I'm still finding it hard to get into. On the other hand I just managed to get my Orc Paladin crowned as a champion of Balance in ADOM despite being cursed and doomed for half the run so far, and the only bad thing that has happened is an Annihilator destroyed my whip of slaughtering. Luckily I was leveling swords and daggers as well, and Dexterity wasn't my good stat anyway. Crowned with Ayla's Scarf and got fire immunity, so Tower looks good once I hit my 20s.
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Feb 16, 2018 12:47
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Jedit posted:I keep trying Unexplored, but I'm still finding it hard to get into. As in, you don't like the mechanics, the controls, the graphics?
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Feb 16, 2018 12:51
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That Italian Guy posted:Has anyone tried Unexplored and Brigador? Brigador is a rather fun game, but I wouldn't even call it a roguelite. If you die you go back to the mission select screen is the full of it; all the maps are static, though there are allot of them, and enemy placement/loadouts can vary. Tons of mechs/tanks/etc to unlock and use tho, from a golf cart with an artillery mount to a tank the size of a (small) city block. I wouldn't say it's worth the price out of sale, I didn't get my $1=1h out of it before putting it down, but I mean, look at this goddamn thing:  It's called the treehouse 
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Feb 16, 2018 13:05
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vorebane posted:I picked up Ironcast, which is like if FTL was a mech combat game using the Paint Monsters (a facebook game) mechanic. You drag and connect a windy line of resources, getting 3 chances a turn, and shoot weapons, raise shields for damage reduction, and walk about for evade chance. You have 4 main resources, ammo, energy (for defenses), coolant (expended by attacks and defenses) and repair (you can repair subsystems, but not hull). Between missions you choose and swap upgrades, swap and buy systems, and then choose your mission, building your strength for the boss, Hey, you like Convoy and I don't, doesn't mean you can't have good opinions. I'll put Ironcast back on my wishlist, give it a whirl at some point. ...And honestly what gets me sore about Convoy is that it was genuinely fun up until that final boss.  That Italian Guy posted:Has anyone tried Unexplored and Brigador? Unexplored is like top-down Zelda and really, insanely good. The dungeons feel hand-crafted, the combat is fair, and while it's hard it's satisfying? Other people can probably sell it better than I can, but it's just, it's so good - and the devs keep putting out free content for it, which is amazing. Brigador meanwhile is not a roguelike, but is also one of my favorite games! The controls are very hit or miss - I learned on the original tank controls and they are honestly the best ones for the game, and very natural once you're used to them. And once you are - the game is exceedingly tactical. You cannot take on a full mob of enemies and survive, so you have to be able to figure out when to engage squads, when to sneak past, and so on. The campaign is a set of single maps that you have to solve - the enemy placements are static, and instead you have to figure out how to use your pre-set loadout to win. The freelance mode is where the game really opens up, as you can mix and match your vehicle and weapons and special weapon, and then clear at least one or two maps - or do ten in a row - and it's incredible pulling off a long run and getting a big payday. Also the tone of the game, and the music....! Brigador makes me really happy, in other words. It may not make you happy, and you do have to put in some work to make the controls become less of a barrier, but if it gels with you.... I hope it does. I've had some truly magnificent times with it.
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Feb 16, 2018 13:16
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Jawnycat posted:Brigador is a rather fun game, but I wouldn't even call it a roguelite. If you die you go back to the mission select screen is the full of it; all the maps are static, though there are allot of them, and enemy placement/loadouts can vary. Tons of mechs/tanks/etc to unlock and use tho, from a golf cart with an artillery mount to a tank the size of a (small) city block. I wouldn't say it's worth the price out of sale, I didn't get my $1=1h out of it before putting it down, but I mean, look at this goddamn thing: On the other hand, I have well surpassed the $1=1hr ratio, and love the game to death. It's not without its learning curve, but the game is very rewarding, has fantastic music, and its own thread and goon developers. It's also not really a roguelike, but you should still buy and play it!
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Feb 16, 2018 14:20
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StrixNebulosa posted:...And honestly what gets me sore about Convoy is that it was genuinely fun up until that final boss. Legit this is a stumbling block that SO many roguelikes hit. The entire game is about managing procedurally generated challenges, but then the final part is this discrete known thing that's harder than the gameplay of the real game, so now the entire game becomes about getting an ascension kit to try to do this unchanging final boss. This is yet another reason why Invisible Inc. is the best - it's one of the only roguelikes I can think of where the final level really is just a very hard version of the same kind of proc gameplay you've been doing all along. Renowned Explorers has at least an interesting compromise where the final boss is the same but your performance on the expedition five overmap determines how strong he is. I would say Crawl because it's smart enough to not have a boss fight, but sadly the orb run is really not that epic you kinda have to work to die on it.
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Feb 16, 2018 14:36
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hito posted:Legit this is a stumbling block that SO many roguelikes hit. The entire game is about managing procedurally generated challenges, but then the final part is this discrete known thing that's harder than the gameplay of the real game, so now the entire game becomes about getting an ascension kit to try to do this unchanging final boss.  Invisible Inc's only real stumbling block (imo) is that it asks you to level up your armor piercing - but the game's been telling you to do that all along, so I forgive it. I'm still glad I beat Dungeonman's final boss back before he buffed it up to be a superboss.
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Feb 16, 2018 14:54
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That Italian Guy posted:Thanks again for the input. Since we're on a roll and Immortal Redneck was suggested before: how much similar is it to Ziggurat? I've played that for a bit, but it got a bit repetitive after a while as the TTK was generally a bit too high for my taste, for a game where you actually have to strafe-dodge that much.
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Feb 16, 2018 14:58
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I really hated Ziggurat. There were very few weapon upgrades, the enemies were bullet sponges, and ammo was scarce so you were mostly using the dinky basic weapon. How many of these problems are still present in Immortal Redneck?
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Feb 16, 2018 15:04
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:I really hated Ziggurat. There were very few weapon upgrades, the enemies were bullet sponges, and ammo was scarce so you were mostly using the dinky basic weapon. How many of these problems are still present in Immortal Redneck? There's no -weapon- upgrades, though there's a lot of different guns, character upgrades, scroll (run-only) upgrades. While you do run out of ammo fairly frequently, you get that ammo back equally quickly and all your weapons use ammo so you need to use that rocket launcher just as much as your (not always so dinky) pistol. You can do fairly well with your starting set of weapons, but you're expected to change them (for fun and not for ammo reasons) fairly often.
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Feb 16, 2018 16:13
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Immortal Redneck is a lot better than Ziggurat. Enemies aren't nearly so bullet-spongy, the gunfeel is better, the character is more agile (think oldschool Doom levels of movement speed). Resource management is largely not an issue -- of course you need to manage your health, but the ammo cap is lower and ammo drops are more frequent, so you don't feel punished for using your good guns like you do in Ziggurat. And the game's scroll mechanic works a lot better than the random room modifiers that Ziggurat used. I definitely remember in Ziggurat getting a lot of "well gently caress you then" rooms, where the game decided to combine a specific room with specific enemies and a specific room modifier that just made the entire thing horribly punishing to complete. Every time I've died in Immortal Redneck, I knew exactly what I was supposed to have been doing, and just wasn't executing well enough. Most of the time when I died in Ziggurat, it felt random. I'm sure there were plenty of things I could have been doing to improve my odds, but I just didn't feel in charge of my destiny to the extent I did in Immortal Redneck. There's also more humor to be found in playing as a mummified redneck in Egypt than there is in shooting ambulatory carrots.
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Feb 16, 2018 16:27
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Ziggurat meh. Immortal Redneck yay. Need to get back to it.
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Feb 16, 2018 16:57
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as someone who has played both, consider me another to say that immortal redneck is just flat-out better
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Feb 16, 2018 17:02
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Alright, looks like I'll get Sproggiwood, Unexplored and Immortal Redneck in these sales.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:14
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That Italian Guy posted:Has anyone tried Unexplored and Brigador? most people here get really excited about brigador but the control scheme really made my experience poo poo and i decided not to play it
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Feb 16, 2018 17:26
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Doorknob Slobber posted:most people here get really excited about brigador but the control scheme really made my experience poo poo and i decided not to play it Is that still the case? I know both Unexplored and Brigador launched with poo poo control schemes. I also know that Unexplored offered a better control scheme shortly after the complaints and I think I heard the same about Brigador.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:41
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LordSloth posted:Is that still the case? I know both Unexplored and Brigador launched with poo poo control schemes. I also know that Unexplored offered a better control scheme shortly after the complaints and I think I heard the same about Brigador. It's not a poo poo control scheme, it's a difficult one to learn, but absolutely fine once you've learned it. They have also added a more typical twin-stick-shooter style control scheme since launch, so even if you dislike the original controls you should be good.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:44
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Brigador has added various other control schemes, yes. e- The new control schemes objectively handle worse than the default, but are easier to pick up.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:45
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That Italian Guy posted:As in, you don't like the mechanics, the controls, the graphics? None of the above. I'm just finding it incredibly opaque.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:47
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Monolith is great, play Monolith. My only real complaint about it is that the weapons vary wildly in effectiveness, so the difference between struggling for ages against a boss and curbstomping it often comes down to what weapons happened to spawn. And on the other side of the coin, some interesting weapons exist that I never use because they're just unplayably bad (thunderhead, I'm looking at you). It's not a great sign that I've bought all the weapons and weapon attributes and then turned most of them off so they don't pollute the spawn pool.
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Feb 16, 2018 18:45
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That Italian Guy posted:- I've played a few hundred hours of BoI, but Gungeon was a bit too much "git good" for me, and it looks like Monolith is even more bullet hellish (same reason I've skipped Nuclear Throne). Monolith has more intense boss fights, but I think it's easier than Gungeon. It doesn't demand perfection quite the way Gungeon does and plays faster. I still struggle to hit floor 3/6 on Gungeon, but I made it to floor 3/6 on Monolith on my first try. I think the main thing is that Monolith minor enemies do not feel like bullet sponges on the later floors.
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Feb 16, 2018 19:02
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Monolith is also just a much shorter game than Gungeon. IIRC Monolith sessions rarely take more than 20 minutes, while Gungeon can easily hit an hour+.
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Feb 16, 2018 19:11
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Nuclear Throne is more about using cover and striking fast than memorizing and dodging shmup-style bullet hell patterns (until you get to the throne at least, then it turns into exactly that).
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Feb 16, 2018 19:14
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I think Monolith is much more approachable (and much more fun) than Gungeon in the early levels, but harder at the end of the game. I've beaten the true final boss of Gungeon and gave up on the true final boss of Monolith. They're also very different types of bullet hell - Gungeon is more the Touhou style of dodging intricate-but-relatively-slow-moving bullet patterns coming out of bullet sponge enemies, while Monolith is more the Cave style of OH GOD THEY'RE EVERYWHERE oh wait I just killed them AND NOW THERE'S MORE. I think both games are a lot easier than Nuclear Throne if you just want a "standard" win though.
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Feb 16, 2018 19:17
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https://twitter.com/Worthless_Bums/status/964582844013203456 https://twitter.com/Worthless_Bums/status/964582983683452928
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Feb 16, 2018 20:33
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StrixNebulosa posted:Hey, you like Convoy and I don't, doesn't mean you can't have good opinions. I'll put Ironcast back on my wishlist, give it a whirl at some point. We cool, fam. Maybe we can convince the Convoy devs to let you ram the boss even if you can't push him around. Brigador's freelance is kinda sorta roguelikish, and relative controls are probably easiest to learn on the antigravs, the trickiest bit being strafing the right way when you're pointing downish.
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Feb 16, 2018 23:32
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Wait, is it impossible to ram Convoy's final boss? I'm pretty sure there's an achievement or unlock condition for defeating it using an all-melee loadout 
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Feb 16, 2018 23:56
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Angry Diplomat posted:Wait, is it impossible to ram Convoy's final boss? I'm pretty sure there's an achievement or unlock condition for defeating it using an all-melee loadout Yeah, it's surrounded by things you can't ram iirc.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:18
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dis astranagant posted:Yeah, it's surrounded by things you can't ram iirc. I'm like 95% sure I've rammed that guy. I think you can ram him right at the front and back (so the most dangerous places to be, basically).
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Feb 17, 2018 00:36
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That Italian Guy posted:- I've played a few hundred hours of BoI, but Gungeon was a bit too much "git good" for me, and it looks like Monolith is even more bullet hellish (same reason I've skipped Nuclear Throne). Monolith is very heavy on the bullet hell side as well, yes, but Nuclear Throne really isn't for the most part. Fights in NT are pure chaos, rather than ordered insanity like most bullet hells, and survival in NT mostly relies around killing poo poo before poo poo kills you. I'm very bad at bullet hell games (zero combined wins in Gungeon and Monolith) but Nuclear Throne I'm pretty solid at. That Italian Guy posted:- I own Cryptark, but I haven't played too much of it. Cryptark loving owns and is honestly one of the most stressful games I've ever played... until I figured it out and was comfortable with it. Fantastic game and it's a wonderful game where you can spend 15 minutes putting together a plan of action before beginning a mission and watching your plan collapse within seconds, and you have to scrape together a successful job while an army of robots chases you constantly. That Italian Guy posted:Thanks again for the input. Since we're on a roll and Immortal Redneck was suggested before: how much similar is it to Ziggurat? I've played that for a bit, but it got a bit repetitive after a while as the TTK was generally a bit too high for my taste, for a game where you actually have to strafe-dodge that much. Throw me in on the pile of people that would say Immortal Redneck is very strictly Better Ziggurat. So far it's the best FPS Roguelite in my experience, although that's a fairly shallow pool. Still fun as hell and has speed and movement very similar to Doom '16 or Shadow Warrior 2, which is always a massive improvement.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:51
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StrixNebulosa posted:https://twitter.com/Worthless_Bums/status/964582844013203456 This seems inaccurate?
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Feb 17, 2018 02:37
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Its the children that are wrong
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Feb 17, 2018 02:46
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I haven't played Steam Marines (yet?) but yeah - I linked it here because I think it's an interesting opinion, but...not necessarily correct. I don't know about the market for it, but I think there's an untapped niche in the people who love XCOM on Ironman and people who love roguelikes. Controlling multiple characters in a deadly sci-fi world sounds like a really interesting twist on the usual roguelike design. etc etc.
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Feb 17, 2018 02:54
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Yeah, this take is not a good take.
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Feb 17, 2018 02:59
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He's right about "squad" being likely to split the audience, wrong about positioning. e: in fact everything except the tweet that starts with "I can feel you frowning" is spot-on, and even then I can see how he arrived at that thought if, for instance, he was around when Nethack vs. Crawl rivalry was still a thing Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 03:12
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LordSloth posted:
I'm enjoying it so far. Not totally sure it would hold up as a co-op game in its current form though.
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