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duodenum posted:I'm not sure this is the best place for this question, but what is the general consensus on some more common media sources on the left? Podcasts aren’t leftist, avoid them.
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Feb 16, 2018 14:13
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shrike82 posted:https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/964336277385564160 The fact that Dem centrists say with a straight face that gun control, particularly gun control of vanilla semiauto AR15s is more politically feasible and popular than single payer healthcare remains insane
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Feb 16, 2018 14:13
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icantfindaname posted:The fact that Dem centrists say with a straight face that gun control, particularly gun control of vanilla semiauto AR15s is more politically feasible and popular than single payer healthcare remains insane To be fair it's not like they even try with real gun control where these guns are made illegal and keep trying to do dumb half measures with that too like bump stock bans or making gun companies responsible if their products are used in crimes. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 14:18
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:What’s really weird is that Sanders’ fans can’t just say “yeah that was a mistake but he’s on balance billion times better than neoliberals” but we can and do though? here: THAT WAS GARBAGE BERNIE DO BETTER hope he heard me 
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Feb 16, 2018 14:28
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:What’s really weird is that Sanders’ fans can’t just say “yeah that was a mistake but he’s on balance billion times better than neoliberals” Hasn't Sanders consistently supported every Dem gun control postion that would remotely effect the odds of a school shooting happening or reduce the body count? The only "gun control" stuff he has opposed wouldn't have any impact on stuff like this. What was his actual mistake? GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 14:29
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lol if you're not aware of WJ's MO, he's an Abuelaist of the "show me the map" persuasion, who on election day suddenly became a leftist but somehow only posts about how Sanders is bad
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Feb 16, 2018 14:37
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GlyphGryph posted:Hasn't Sanders consistently supported every Dem gun control postion that would remotely effect the odds of a school shooting happening or reduce the body count? The equivalent law would be to shield Purdue from lawsuits over opiate deaths. It is, and remains, a bad law.
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Feb 16, 2018 14:42
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:The equivalent law would be to shield Purdue from lawsuits over opiate deaths. It is, and remains, a bad law. Okay so he doesn't support your pointless pet issue that would have done nothing in regards to keeping anyone safe from anything but would have made idiots feel better. And this is a terrible mistake because ... something?
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Feb 16, 2018 14:48
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GlyphGryph posted:Hasn't Sanders consistently supported every Dem gun control postion that would remotely effect the odds of a school shooting happening or reduce the body count? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m=.51fa37bd2a4d
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Feb 16, 2018 14:58
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all the libs using shootings to punch left are absolute ghouls
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Feb 16, 2018 15:06
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GlyphGryph posted:Okay so he doesn't support your pointless pet issue that would have done nothing in regards to keeping anyone safe from anything but would have made idiots feel better. Even ignoring whether it’d have any effect on gun violence, it’s bad because it’s protecting the gun industry when the preeminent gun industry trade group has become nakedly partisan in favor of the Republicans
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Feb 16, 2018 15:13
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:ignoring whether it’d have any effect on gun violence
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Feb 16, 2018 15:27
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icantfindaname posted:The fact that Dem centrists say with a straight face that gun control, particularly gun control of vanilla semiauto AR15s is more politically feasible and popular than single payer healthcare remains insane The party gets money from Health insurers and Pharma and none from the NRA. It doesn't go much deeper than that.
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Feb 16, 2018 15:32
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Sanders is Bad on Guns but he's still a million times better than any republican on the issue except for, I imagine, Lincoln.
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Feb 16, 2018 15:32
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Even ignoring whether it’d have any effect on gun violence, it’s bad because it’s protecting the gun industry when the preeminent gun industry trade group has become nakedly partisan in favor of the Republicans "It has nothing to do with the issue at hand, I can't defend it helping anyone, but it really want to hurt these people" is a pretty poor argument and makes it seem like you're doing exactly the thing the Republicans like to claim Dems do - politicize tragedies like this to do the things they already wanted instead of doing something that would actually prevent tragedies like this. Worse still, you're advocating it in a pretty blatant attack on one of the most popular politicians in the country, who supports things that would help prevent these tragedies, during an administration that is actively doing things to make them worse and more likely, in order to... [???]. Do you actually care that people are dying or about preventing people from dying, or this is just an opportunity for you? Because I can't imagine anyone who actually cares using this as an opportunity to attack Bernie on industry lawsuits instead of pushing for useful things. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 15:36
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:What’s really weird is that Sanders’ fans can’t just say “yeah that was a mistake but he’s on balance billion times better than neoliberals” This is literally the conclusion of every Sanders defense.
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Feb 16, 2018 15:44
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Enjoy Hillary & Biden securing Trump in 2020.
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Feb 16, 2018 15:49
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You know what WhiskeyJuevenile reminds me of? In addition to the pointless Sanders bashing, it just comes across the way most neolibs do - they seem to genuinely believe there is nothing we can do to prevent incidents like this and its not worth trying. That is the overwhelming message - we are helpless, we can't do anything to make the situation better, so lashing out at people who are tangentially involved or legislating superficialities that will have no impact is the pinnacle of what we should attempt and anyone who doesn't get behind that is the enemy. It's very defeatist.
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Feb 16, 2018 15:54
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GlyphGryph posted:"It has nothing to do with the issue at hand, I can't defend it helping anyone, but it really want to hurt these people" is a pretty poor argument and makes it seem like you're doing exactly the thing the Republicans like to claim Dems do - politicize tragedies like this to do the things they already wanted instead of doing something that would actually prevent tragedies like this. You truly believe that making gun manufacturers financially liable for some of the horrible crimes committed by their products would have no effect on the overall sale and accessibility of guns in the US? One of the most effective ways to combat any societal ill is to go after the people profiting from it, lowering their profits and making them take into account the damage they cause on their actual spreadsheets. Thats how you get to them. Look at tobacco as a very effective example of how to combat an industry. Are there other ways? Sure, seeing as most of the effective ones would require a change to the constitution, they are much less practical. If you can't ban guns, make it non-profitable to manufacture and sell them to civilians, and the problem will becomes much smaller. As a democratic socialist, Bernie should know that this is how most social democracies solves their problems (taxes on alcohol to combat drinking, taxes on gasoline to combat pollution, and so on). It really is a huge misstep from him to be against this.
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Feb 16, 2018 15:55
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Nonsense posted:Enjoy Hillary & Biden securing Trump in 2020. I don't think Hillary could make it through another primary because her "the most electable choice" narrative has been shattered in the most public way imaginable and outside of that she doesn't really have much to run on. The fear I would have is that she does her typical bullshit where she seeds the media with slander about her opponents and salts the earth with her crazy supporters. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 15:57
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Frivolous lawsuits until our political opponents go bankrupt is good policy! ~ Democrats in TyoOL 2018
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Feb 16, 2018 16:08
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Frivolous lawsuits until our political opponents go bankrupt is good policy! Just like fining banks for misbehaviour solved all financial crashes now and forever, lawsuits against the gun lobby will totally take down the big companies funding our opposition, drastically reduce gun sales, and most importantly have absolutely no negative long term consequences whatsoever. It certainly won't just further consolidate the market into even more entrenched megacorps, the same way such lawsuits have done in other industries. Also it's practical, possible, and pragmatic, unlike proposals that would actually help! (Note: Use the neoliberal definition of those words)
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Feb 16, 2018 16:16
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GlyphGryph posted:"It has nothing to do with the issue at hand, I can't defend it helping anyone, but it really want to hurt these people" is a pretty poor argument and makes it seem like you're doing exactly the thing the Republicans like to claim Dems do - politicize tragedies like this to do the things they already wanted instead of doing something that would actually prevent tragedies like this. to be clear: we are talking about the 2005 PLCAA that gave arms manufacturers and dealers pretty much blanket immunity from any sort of legal recourse, right? because the repeal would very obviously help people: the PLCAA has been used to kill lawsuits over and over against arms dealers who didn't give a gently caress about following regulations and flooded their communities with firearms. courts have explicitly found that law suits based on "general negligence" on the part of a gun seller are prohibited by the PLCAA.
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Feb 16, 2018 16:21
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Frivolous lawsuits until our political opponents go bankrupt is good policy! Counterpoint: gently caress corporations, they can eat the lawsuits.
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Feb 16, 2018 16:54
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Lightning Knight posted:Counterpoint: gently caress corporations, they can eat the lawsuits. The fact that they can almost assuredly eat the lawsuits is part of what makes it an empty gesture, though. A consumption tax that recognizes and puts the funding towards the risk they pose to society would be more fair, empower them less, and have a greater effect. Maybe ban advertising as well. Even in the realm of "gently caress the gun companies" this seems like one of the worst possible things that could be done. And if the companies aren't following regulations, the response should be to call for criminal consequences for that, not loving lawsuits.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:24
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GlyphGryph posted:The fact that they can almost assuredly eat the lawsuits is part of what makes it an empty gesture, though. A consumption tax that recognizes and puts the funding towards the risk they pose to society would be more fair, empower them less, and have a greater effect. Maybe ban advertising as well. Yeah, if you want to shut down gun manufacturers just ball up and shut down gun manufacturers, or nationalize them, or forbid them to sell anything to nonmilitary/police. All the proposed strict liability law would accomplish is a zillion more billable hours for class action attorneys and most of those are rich enough already anyway. If you want to kill the gun companies do it directly not by proxy.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:28
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GlyphGryph posted:You know what WhiskeyJuevenile reminds me of? In addition to the pointless Sanders bashing, it just comes across the way most neolibs do - they seem to genuinely believe there is nothing we can do to prevent incidents like this and its not worth trying. That is the overwhelming message - we are helpless, we can't do anything to make the situation better, so lashing out at people who are tangentially involved or legislating superficialities that will have no impact is the pinnacle of what we should attempt and anyone who doesn't get behind that is the enemy. I'll crosspost my list of proposals: 1) Expand the 1934 NFA to include all semi-automatic firearms, but exclude bolt and lever action rifles, revolvers, and antique collectibles. Raise the tax fee under the NFA to $1000. (Yes, this is functionally 'no modern guns for the poor" but the NFA has a very strong record of preventing crimes with the guns it restricts). Note that this would also end manufacture of semiautomatic weapons for the U.S. civilian market. 2)Adequately funding and streamlining the national instant background check system, including mandatory contribution of data at the state level. Several recent mass shootings, including the Charleston attack, would have been prevented but for errors in the instant background check system. 3) Free universal mental health care and suicide counseling. At root this issue is a suicide epidemic. 4) Generalized national reform of the civil mental health commitment process along the lines that Virginia enacted after the Virginia Tech shooting (for example, removing the requirement of "imminent" dangerousness); see http://www.law.virginia.edu/pdf/mh%20system%20transformartion%20health%20affairs%205-09.pdf ; As part of this, create a federal process for those with prior mental health commitments to regain their right to own firearms, so that those who own firearms but need help are not disincentivized to seek treatment. Do not pass Obama's proposed expansion of the prohibition on firearms ownership to anyone who has a social security rep payee. Most nursing home residents have rep payees just because it simplifies billing; it's an optional administrative thing in the social secuirty program, not an actual determination of competence, and doesn't really say anything about the person who has a rep payee other than that they didn't want to handle their own billing. 5) raise the purchase age on firearms to 21, same as alcohol. Implement federal safe storage requirements (behind a lock) for any firearms kept in homes where juveniles reside . Again, possible exception of bolt actions/revolvers; (possibly less necessary given the NFA proposal above) 6) Fund federal investigation and monitoring of right-wing terror groups. 7) Make completion of a gun safety training course -- to federally-mandated standards, including safe storage -- a necessary requirement of the ATF form 4473. 8) Require all sales, or purchases of firearms of any kind to go through a FFL (exception for inherited firearms). You'd need to regulate gift transfers of firearms also to backstop this requirement. 9) Universal basic income (again, as part of suicide prevention). EDIT: 10) Legalize it VVV Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 17:35
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#9 would do more to alleviate violent crime than pretty much anything else on the table. Also legalize drugs and make weed mandatory. Nobody ever did a spree killing stoned.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:40
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https://mobile.twitter.com/Patricke...er%3D18%23pti26 For the record, he’s still bad on guns. The whole party is, really, insofar it is correct that current policy proposals are tepid and lacking in ambition compared to the scope of the problem.
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Feb 16, 2018 18:56
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That thread is loving insane.
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Feb 16, 2018 18:59
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duodenum posted:
I dismiss those two based solely on their stupid names
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Feb 16, 2018 19:02
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Oh Snapple! posted:That thread is loving insane. What thread?
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Feb 16, 2018 19:03
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icantfindaname posted:The fact that Dem centrists say with a straight face that gun control, particularly gun control of vanilla semiauto AR15s is more politically feasible and popular than single payer healthcare remains insane
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Feb 16, 2018 19:03
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Lightning Knight posted:What thread? The twitter thread you linked. Largely insofar as that it's exactly what you'd expect from people who see some kids get shot and immediately go "How can I blame Bernie Sanders for this?"
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Feb 16, 2018 19:04
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shrike82 posted:https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/964336277385564160 INT. SOMETHINGAWFUL FORUMS LIBRARY - DAY KOALAS MARCH grabs a dusty book. After thoroughly examining it, she blows the dust off in a large, swirling, expanding cloud. She cautiously slides it open, and then traces her finger over one of the pages. She stops and pauses at a certain passage... KOALAS MARCH (reading) Much like your posting.
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Feb 16, 2018 19:09
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Varam posted:Podcasts aren’t leftist, avoid them. Bodega Boys? Show Your Work?
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Feb 16, 2018 19:11
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Koalas March posted:INT. SOMETHINGAWFUL FORUMS LIBRARY - DAY This is far too much effort for a response to a shrike post!
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Feb 16, 2018 19:11
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Sanders has had some bad positions on guns, and his rhetoric about the 'difference' between Chicago and Vermont sounds like a dogwhistle. Sanders is bad on a lot of things actually. But his mainstream critics are generally 100x worse so their attacks on him ring hollow
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Feb 16, 2018 19:25
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Koalas March posted:INT. SOMETHINGAWFUL FORUMS LIBRARY - DAY
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Feb 16, 2018 19:30
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Koalas March posted:INT. SOMETHINGAWFUL FORUMS LIBRARY - DAY lol
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Feb 16, 2018 19:31
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