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Tree Goat posted:i would absolutely not like them to elaborate on that As an Asian American I would like to know more about how I'm basically white
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Feb 17, 2018 18:02
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It's a map for an EU4 mod someone's making. It isn't supposed to make sense.
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Feb 17, 2018 18:02
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Badger of Basra posted:As an Asian American I would like to know more about how I'm basically white I assume his point is that identity does not always correlate 100% with actual cultural differences, and that culture is difficult to measure anyway, making any measure of 'diversity' questionable. I know you smell blood but chill.
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Feb 17, 2018 18:25
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Badger of Basra posted:As an Asian American I would like to know more about how I'm basically white each terrible post that i read on who "counts as white" in america is another year in purgatory when i die
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Feb 17, 2018 18:27
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TinTower posted:Fun fact, during the mid-1990s, the loyalist terrorist vigilante group the Ulster Defence Association proposed repartition again, in which any Catholics left in the remaining parts of Northern Ireland would be ethnically cleansed. The press officer for the Democratic Unionist Party at the time, Sammy Wilson, was rather enthusiastic about the plan. "well, this is an interesting history lesson" 
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Feb 17, 2018 18:31
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Give Ulster back to Ireland and be done with it. They've had their fun.
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Feb 17, 2018 18:39
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 Map of Cleveland if every Subway Restaurant was a subway station
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Feb 17, 2018 19:27
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Tree Goat posted:each terrible post that i read on who "counts as white" in america is another year in purgatory when i die another reason why the model minority myth needed to die yesterday
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Feb 17, 2018 19:32
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fishmech posted:
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Feb 17, 2018 20:15
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cinci zoo sniper posted:There are barely any cultural differences between Latvians and Russians in Latvia. Some Russians, uhh, celebrate Christmas and Easter on different date than most of the country does, and that's about it? Well obviously in most circumstances when you celebrate Christmas is of little importance, but if you were talking about Yugoslavia in 1991 that might be very important right? I think the first map is a bit better as it uses a simplier and clearer methodology. It merely measures ethnic diversity rather than attempting to rank something as debatable as cultural diversity. Badger of Basra posted:As an Asian American I would like to know more about how I'm basically white It's not that you are the same as white americans, nor that there is no prejudice against Asians within the white community. Its that the boundaries and customs for example our choice of music, religion, dialect, and clothes, that served to keep Asian and White communities distinct have rapidly broken down over the last 60 years. Arguably the existence of these boundaries are what actually define an ethnicity. My thinking on this matter has been heavily influenced by the writing of several first and 2nd generation African immigrants to North America. Scholars anthropologist John U. Ogbu, who in his 2003 book Black American Students in an Affluent Suburb, drew a distinction between what he called "voluntary minorities" like his own family, and "involuntary minorities" like Native Americans, who interacting with the prevailing social structure in very different ways. Obviously this is a difficult subject and even defining what ethnicity means can be extremely contentious. Is it based on skin color, language, religion? Is an Australian whose grandparents were all Greek ethnically Greek or Australian or both? Is a White American the same ethnicity as a White Canadian? Ultimately the answer may change depending on historical circumstance. Now what do you think about the other intentionally contentious statement I left in that post? That anabaptists like the Mennonites are "ethnically distinct" from other White Americans?
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Feb 17, 2018 20:25
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Squalid posted:Well obviously in most circumstances when you celebrate Christmas is of little importance, but if you were talking about Yugoslavia in 1991 that might be very important right? I think the first map is a bit better as it uses a simplier and clearer methodology. It merely measures ethnic diversity rather than attempting to rank something as debatable as cultural diversity. I don't presume anything about Balkan countries. As a Latvian, I just call bullshit on that map.
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Feb 17, 2018 20:26
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I've been reading up on the Irish Troubles (see my NMD discussion on the Troubles through song) and ran across the fascinating topic of the Repartition of Ireland. Apparently in the 1970s as the Northern Irish conflict was getting nasty, some Brits seriously considered taking the majority-Catholic areas and just ceding them to the Republic of Ireland to get rid of the most restive bits. Re partition talks usually floundered cause of Belfast, you know, existing. A quick glance at NI population density and an overlook of the "hottest" areas in the Troubles may give you a quick indication why shunting all those pesky west of the bann counties across the border wouldn't necessary do much - not to mention the fact that taking the Berlin solution to Belfast wouldn't do much considering Republicanism repudiated the government of the Republic as illegitimate so you'd just create a weird kind of quazi-Gaza situation in West Belfast.  Population density 1971  Each circle represents the number of deaths (the larger the circle the larger number of deaths) per Super Output Area, a ward based geographical unit designed to roughly cover 2000 people (with 890 in total). Note the crazy overlapping Belfast zones kustomkarkommando fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 20:36
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Squalid posted:It's not that you are the same as white americans, nor that there is no prejudice against Asians within the white community. Its that the boundaries and customs for example our choice of music, religion, dialect, and clothes, that served to keep Asian and White communities distinct have rapidly broken down over the last 60 years. Arguably the existence of these boundaries are what actually define an ethnicity. About 40-50% of Asian-Americans today are first generation immigrants, almost entirely those are people who came after the 1965 lifting of anti-Asian-immigration rules. Who cares what the people who were here, or whose parents were here, 60 years ago are like now, this is a whole separate wave of people, and they're often from different countries/cultures than the bulk of pre-1965 Asian Americans were.
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Feb 17, 2018 20:38
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Squalid posted:Well obviously in most circumstances when you celebrate Christmas is of little importance, but if you were talking about Yugoslavia in 1991 that might be very important right? It's not the date of Christmas that mattered.
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Feb 17, 2018 20:44
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Squalid posted:They really are notably homogenous, at least relative to the rest of the world. Although their ranking on diversity indices depends on exactly how one chooses to measure diversity. The biggest flaw of the first map (home to a completely inexplicable "mega diverse" Libya) is that there's no way it takes into account people answering for nationality over ethnicity. Among other things. Or places where large cultural and even linguistic differences never quite got the same program update of romantic nationalism other places did. The most obvious flaw in the Western Europe example there is Italy, what with the huge rift between the north and south, a rift that has cultural and linguistic elements. But hasn't ever really come to be thought of in ethnic terms either from without or within Italy. But by any logical measure that's particular diversity. The BIGGEST flaw on that map though because of this issue? loving lol at India.
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Feb 17, 2018 20:50
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my dad posted:It's not the date of Christmas that mattered. Yeah, it was how many fingers you used to make the sign of the cross 
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Feb 17, 2018 21:18
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fishmech posted:About 40-50% of Asian-Americans today are first generation immigrants, almost entirely those are people who came after the 1965 lifting of anti-Asian-immigration rules. Who cares what the people who were here, or whose parents were here, 60 years ago are like now, this is a whole separate wave of people, and they're often from different countries/cultures than the bulk of pre-1965 Asian Americans were. Also the earlier generations were massively discriminated against and largely lived in segregated ghettos, so the earlier Asian communities developed distinct cultural and social identities that are still extant. There's a culture clash between, say, American born Chinese and contemporary immigrant "mainlanders," but often as not, they still wind up living the same neighborhoods. The lifting of miscegenation laws (if not always the stigma) and formal segregation has changed a lot for the 3rd/4th+ generation Asian Americans, but let's not loving push it.
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Feb 17, 2018 21:51
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Squalid posted:Well obviously in most circumstances when you celebrate Christmas is of little importance, but if you were talking about Yugoslavia in 1991 that might be very important right? I think the first map is a bit better as it uses a simplier and clearer methodology. It merely measures ethnic diversity rather than attempting to rank something as debatable as cultural diversity. lol actually, saying that asian americans are ethnically the same as white americans, is loving stupid.
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Feb 17, 2018 21:52
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So Asian Americans are ethnically indistinct from white people because Asian Americans act white, but also Asian Americans still face prejudice from white people? Also it seems to me that the anabaptists are more like the "voluntary minorities" than Asians are, given that an anabaptist could wake up one day, move to Seattle, and start acting like a mainstream white person and no one would think they were any different. An Asian American who does the same thing would still be perceived by the rest of society as non-white. Badger of Basra fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 22:06
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quote is not edit
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Feb 17, 2018 22:08
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SaltyJesus posted:Yeah, it was how many fingers you used to make the sign of the cross Ahahahahahaha yup
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Feb 17, 2018 22:08
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There's no such thing as "Finns".
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Feb 17, 2018 22:12
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"Bog Mongols" is the preferred nomenclature.
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Feb 17, 2018 22:17
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You mean "Sedentary Sami".
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Feb 17, 2018 22:19
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FreudianSlippers posted:"Bog Mongols" is the preferred nomenclature. I really can't argue with that. 
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Feb 17, 2018 22:19
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Jerry Cotton posted:There's no such thing as "Finns". Not even True Finns?
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Feb 17, 2018 22:23
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Lycus posted:Not even True Finns? Seriouspost: No people on this planet are less Finnish than the nazis (and they're literally all nazis) that call themselves True Finns.
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Feb 17, 2018 22:27
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Jerry Cotton posted:Seriouspost: No people on this planet are less Finnish than the nazis (and they're literally all nazis) that call themselves True Finns. What are they, swedes.
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Feb 17, 2018 22:38
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Probably some variety of bog or forest trolls.
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Feb 17, 2018 22:42
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Kurtofan posted:What are they, swedes. Savonians.
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Feb 17, 2018 22:43
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Jerry Cotton posted:What no they aren't That was in reference to the "certain very limited set of Asians"
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Feb 18, 2018 00:22
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Squalid posted:I'm pretty sure there's a map using Shannon's diversity index to map diversity by state in my post history, I think using race? as the definition of ethnicty. Definging ethnicty is actually really hard and arbitrary though so its easy to quibble with such maps. Asians I would argue are no longer ethnically distinct from white Americans, while the Amish and other extreme sects of Anabaptists are I think. 
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Feb 18, 2018 00:36
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Badger of Basra posted:So Asian Americans are ethnically indistinct from white people because Asian Americans act white, but also Asian Americans still face prejudice from white people? also i'm pretty sure that downscale southeast asian refugees and their descendants, often who still suffer poor educational and health outcomes (the impetus for a data disaggregation bill in rhode island, for instance, was that southeast asians in that state actually had the lowest high school graduation rates) and are often on the wrong side of law enforcement (see hmong folks in the twin cities, for instance) would take exception with this and poo poo i didn't even get into south asians who get profiled by law enforcement as "terrorists" or are likely to get maimed or killed in hate crimes because a lot of whites can't tell the difference between them and arabs; like poo poo, a sikh man died in a revenge killing for 9/11 Jerry Manderbilt fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 00:38
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Elyv posted:That map is extremely confusing, I think it's supposed to be a political map of ~800 except really weird for some reason?
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Feb 18, 2018 00:49
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kustomkarkommando posted:
This is a really fascinating map, thanks! Of particular note is the big wad of violence in southern County Armagh (the county directly south of Lough Neagh, the big lake in the middle). Presumably a large chunk of that violence was due to the South Armagh Brigade, a unit with only maybe 40-some active fighters that punched way above its weight. The SAB just had a really good base for insurgency, in that they were right by an international border (good for smuggling weapons, and for Revolutionary Tax'ing other smugglers), and due to it being a low-population area pretty much everyone knew them and at least tacitly supported them, allowing them to operate in large cells that would've been infiltrated quickly in Belfast. SAB conducted the single most fatal attack on the British Army during the Troubles (killed 18 troops in a staged double-IED attack) and shot down multiple helicopters with both heavy machineguns and homemade mortars. Looking at the re-partition proposal map, in many areas it looks more like they were trying to slice out the more restive bits more than just reflect the local population. Note that South Armagh gets lopped right off, as well as (best as I can squint) the city of Derry (the norhwestern blob on the heatmap). Derry has a substantial Protestant population and is an icon of Ulster history, but ceding it over would've removed one of the most concentrated spots of violence other then Belfast. But yeah, as you note you can rearrange all kinds of deck chairs in NI, but unless you Berlin'ed the city of Belfast, or did a forced population transfer, you still have 90% of the same problem. I wanted to follow up with a related map, so here's a graphic from The Sun showing how the PIRA apparently imports loose tobacco to NI to make counterfeit cigarettes. 
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Feb 18, 2018 00:57
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Squalid posted:Obviously this is a difficult subject and even defining what ethnicity means can be extremely contentious. You may be describing a real difference of some sort that is worth talking about perhaps, but you're putting it in terms that are either really inflammatory or obtusely specialized. Either way you're communicating poorly and should probably reconsider the way you assert what groups are not "ethnically distinct". I don't think anyone would have batted an eye if you talked about Asian Americans being seen as less "other" than some other groups, and explaining how that might even be a fundamentally different experience for them would probably have started a thoughtful conversation, but to translate that into "not ethnically distinct" is not a helpful way to phrase things.
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Feb 18, 2018 01:25
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Eiba posted:Yeah, so you think maybe saying "Actually, these groups aren't ethnically distinct, no matter what they think," is a tad presumptuous? pfft, you must just be a part of that peanut gallery that has no perspective
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Feb 18, 2018 01:34
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Ok, but seriously, what's this from, I assume an alternative history story or it's an alternative earth from some anime or something.
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Feb 18, 2018 02:50
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Reveilled posted:Ok, but seriously, what's this from, I assume an alternative history story or it's an alternative earth from some anime or something. This. I dont think there's any story behind it, just "wouldn't the game be cool if the map looked like this?" quote:Hoping to make a mod over the summer that drastically changes the map, throwing logic out the window. The main goal is to move parts of the world into different places and radically change geography and then play out alternate history within it.
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Feb 18, 2018 02:52
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Pakled posted:This. Aw, that's disappointing. But thanks for explaining!
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Feb 18, 2018 02:55
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