Mr. Flunchy posted:This is happening right now with Demon's Souls. The servers shut down for good in ten days. I've left it late, but am currently enjoying the hell out of it. It just wouldn't be the same offline. I really wish more companies would take the PSO approach. When SEGA was finally done with Phantasy Star Online, they just let the fans have it. There are a few fan servers still up and running, some just running the game. Some with genuine modifications and improvements on the base game. They're never huge, you're not going to see several thousand people playing an old proto-console MMO or anything. But it's great that if anyone really cares, they still can even years after the game was officially considered a wash and PSO2 came out. I'm sure one day all those people will be gone and no one will be running a PSO server simply because there's no interest left. But there will probably still be someone who has the information archived for any curious people who want it.
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Feb 18, 2018 02:41
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In regards to religion in games I remember when Dante's Inferno was being made, it in fact generated so little controversy that EA manufactured evangelical outrage to boost sales.
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Feb 18, 2018 02:44
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Mr. Flunchy posted:This is happening right now with Demon's Souls. The servers shut down for good in ten days. I've left it late, but am currently enjoying the hell out of it. It just wouldn't be the same offline. After I looked up how world tendency worked I never played online again. That system was stupid.
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Feb 18, 2018 02:58
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rodbeard posted:After I looked up how world tendency worked I never played online again. That system was stupid. Yeahhhhhhhhh world tendency was just the absolute worst mechanic. The worst thing about the server shutting down is the monk tower where it picks a random guy who dedicated himself to making a pvp build just to gently caress people over and makes them your boss going away. Because now you'll just get a generic npc invader instead of a twinked out pvp guy dedicated to making sure nobody else has fun ever.
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Feb 18, 2018 03:17
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KingSlime posted:Was there a recent controversy I'm entirely unaware of or does he literally make up his reality as he goes? The last time there was a game where you could create, manage, and maintain a Heaven and Hell without controversy, the idea of a 'reality where terrorism left and right happens' was a joke. The closest to it is, as noted, is religion in the Civ games, which anyone not being disingenuous would recognize as a mere shadow of anything approaching Afterlife. If I was wrong, someone would have remade the game by now, or recreated it to some degree. All I require to admit I'm wrong is another SimHeaven/SimHell simulator from a AAA developer to have come out in the last twenty years or so. Anyways, bit of content: I'm randomly desiring to play the game Evil Genius, but so much of it pisses me off in little ways that I've considered listing them off for this thread, but even that wearies me. Like, if you earn too much money, the thing your minions get gold from to buy things can be blocked by gold piles, because your minions can't walk between the piles of gold. You can't move it when that happens, because the same spot your minions use it from is the same place they'd move if from. E: gently caress if, here's an esoteric one: I've bought that remake of Half Life 1 previously at some point and I kinda want to play it, but the folks making it still aren't done with Xen and I kinda want to wait until it's done to replay it. MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 03:52 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 03:38
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MisterBibs posted:The last time there was a game where you could create, manage, and maintain a Heaven and Hell without controversy, the idea of a 'reality where terrorism left and right happens' was a joke. The closest to it is, as noted, is religion in the Civ games, which anyone not being disingenuous would recognize as a mere shadow of anything approaching Afterlife. If I was wrong, someone would have remade the game by now, or recreated it to some degree. All I require to admit I'm wrong is another SimHeaven/SimHell simulator from a AAA developer to have come out in the last twenty years or so. Can you give an example of controversy generated by a videogame letting you create a religion?
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Feb 18, 2018 04:11
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The Moon Monster posted:Can you give an example of controversy generated by a videogame letting you create a religion? The game Afterlife was controversial enough that the closest replication of the mechanic was in a 4x game decades later, and even a basic comparison between the two would be like comparing an apple to a newspaper drawing of an orange from the 20s. vvv No, I did. If my drag down that the game hasn't been remade is wrong, find me the remake. Anything less is proof that I'm right. MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 04:41 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 04:27
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So you can't.
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Feb 18, 2018 04:38
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MisterBibs posted:The game Afterlife was controversial enough that the closest replication of the mechanic was in a 4x game decades later, and even a basic comparison between the two would be like comparing an apple to a newspaper drawing of an orange from the 20s. Black and White existed. Im sure theres other examples too but I dont think its controversy as much as an unexplored concept. God games died off in popularity in the early 2000s. So literal God games didnt stand a chance. There's a game in early access right now called Crest which is a little more of a "create a religion" sim and that has limits because its more about creating rudimentary AI routines and letting the AI do it, which isnt always the most fun. The ideas great but somebody has to find a way to do something with it.
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Feb 18, 2018 04:40
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You're making a bit of leap that loses me. Can one definitively say that controversy is why the mechanic has yet to be reproduced? Maybe there's just no interest at the moment? Lots of game ideas have never materialized for a variety of different reasons.
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Feb 18, 2018 04:40
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Sure, we can say why it hasn't been replicated. It's only a thing to disagree with is in the drag down thread. One playthrough of Afterlife, on subject matter alone, makes it clear why it hasn't been remade/reimagined for twenty years. RagnarokAngel posted:Black and White existed. Black and White isn't a simulation of SimHeaven or SimHell. Crest is, neither. Not rocket science, here, people. Find me the SimAfterlife simulation I've pretty much been craving since... well, Afterlife, and I'll retract the drag-down. None of your kinda-sortas and if-you-drink-a-lot-its-kinda-like-it examples apply. RagnarokAngel posted:Im sure theres other examples too but I dont think its controversy as much as an unexplored concept. God games died off in popularity in the early 2000s. So literal God games didnt stand a chance. Ask yourself why games involving the creation of a literal afterlife died out, and the concept doesn't stand a chance. I did, and it's why the lack of anything close to Afterlife is a drag down for me. MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 04:52 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 04:46
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I'm not buying the initial premise of "an afterlife successor never happened because of religious zealotry" Do you have anything at all to support that other than your gut feeling? Maybe another example of something that might have been considered too blasphemous and died out due to people not wanting to further offend Genuinely engaging in discussion here btw not trying to troll or argue with you.
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Feb 18, 2018 04:50
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rodbeard posted:After I looked up how world tendency worked I never played online again. That system was stupid. My absolute favorite thing about world tendency is that it's not even that complicated but it's just presented in the most arcane and stupid way it looks way shittier than it is so absolutely no one understood it very well for a long time. Plus there aren't enough means to farm good world/personal tendencies compared to how easy it is to go dark.
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Feb 18, 2018 04:51
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yes i'm sure the reason a bad game no one played never got replicated was because it was just too drat edgy
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Feb 18, 2018 04:51
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I'm still unable to matchmake in Monster Hunter World
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Feb 18, 2018 04:54
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KingSlime posted:Do you have anything at all to support that other than your gut feeling? There has never been anything reasonably approaching a afterlife management game with the feature to actually create an afterlife since 1996. What other evidence do you need, if you're not arguing or trolling? Like I said, anyone who isn't arguing or trolling could sit down blind, play twenty minutes of Afterlife, and say "oh, so that's why I've not played a game like this since 96." MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 04:56 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 04:54
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MisterBibs posted:There has never been anything reasonably approaching a afterlife management game with the feature to actually create an afterlife since 1996. What other evidence do you need, if you're not arguing or trolling? Like I said, anyone who isn't arguing or trolling could sit down blind, play twenty minutes of Afterlife, and say "oh, so that's why I've not played a game like this since 96." Nobody played Afterlife and it's a dumb idea anyway(micromanage two different cities that are both boring[an amusement park and a torture prison] in different ways). Nobody gave a gently caress the first time it came out, what company is like "let's roll those dice again, it was only a commercial failure the first time." Religious controversy doesn't have anything to do with it, what the hell are you even arguing? Are you saying you agree it's because the game sucks now? You post like you change your mind every time you start typing. There was one game with this concept and nobody bought it so they stopped making games with that concept. Are you arguing there's a religious conspiracy against a sequel to mediocre religious themed game "Messiah" too? Jukebox Hero has a new favorite as of 05:08 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 05:05
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You're so focused specifically on the afterlife part and not the "playing God" part which might be seen as more problematic. You initially said there hasn't been a game where you create your own religion and then moved the goalposts so its specifically a game about managing the afterlife. It likely has more to do with the death of god game/city management games (sim city 4 being the last major one I can think of until Sim City 2016 and cities skylines brought it back) than religious zealotry you can't prove.
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Feb 18, 2018 05:07
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I get that reading my posts would be a bridge too far, but I did not say that the game can't be remade because of the invent-a-religion mechanic. My first post on the suject was me literally saying that due to modern sensibilities, the game will never be remade by anyone. Yes, I mentioned the create-a-religion thing as an example afterwords, but I didn't start from there. Didn't have to, because as anyone who isn't arguing in bad faith would understand, Afterlife is fundamentally a game that can't be remade now. Take away every mechanic from Afterlife, and you still can't make it today.Jukebox Hero posted:Religious controversy doesn't have anything to do with it, what the hell are you even arguing? Of course it was the religious controversy. After all, now we've gone to inventing things like "well the game sucked", after all the well-if-you-spin-around-and-take-bath-salts-they-look-alike-even-though-they-aren't have been exhausted. You could almost say a game I liked is low-key dragged down because the obvious religious nature of the game kept it from not being remade since the original in 96. Hell, we can make this content in and of itself: Diablo 2 was dragged down for me slightly, because the Shocking Reveal at the end was ruined. Nobody voiced by Afterlife's Jasper Wormwood would really be the Archangel Tyrael that Marius was talking to. vvv: the evidence is a lack of a SimAfterlife game since 1996. You'd unravel my whole point if you found one. MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 05:17 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 05:11
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MisterBibs posted:I get that reading my posts would be a bridge too far, but I did not say that the game can't be remade because of the invent-a-religion mechanic. I literally said due to modern sensibilities, the game will never be remade by anyone. Yes, I mentioned the create-a-religion thing as an example, but I didn't start from there. you have zero loving evidence that the "edginess" is what stopped anyone else from making a game like it; that's 100% in your head that can be your hypothesis, sure, but acting like it's plainly obvious and people are just trolling when they disagree is moronic
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Feb 18, 2018 05:15
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MisterBibs posted:vvv: the evidence is a lack of a SimAfterlife game since 1996. You'd unravel my whole point if you found one. the lack of evidence isn't evidence 
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Feb 18, 2018 05:16
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Bibs, with each post you make, I become more and more convinced that you must have had a favorite flavor of paint chips as a kid.
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Feb 18, 2018 05:19
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MisterBibs posted:Of course it was the religious controversy. YOU NEED TO PROVE THIS PART Other question: you don't MAKE a religion in Afterlife. You just run Heaven and Hell. What are you talking about with this 'create a religion' stuff? You work for a Literal Angel and a Literal Devil, who serve The Powers That Be, it's all judeochristian as gently caress, Black And White was more shocking. And, while we're sniping at each other, try actually answering my questions.
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Feb 18, 2018 05:19
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Decades of killing Gods in RPGs but what really crossed the line was a simulation game.
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Feb 18, 2018 05:22
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Jukebox Hero posted:YOU NEED TO PROVE THIS PART I've done so. There's no games like Afterlife, since Afterlife. The point is proven, unless you're arguing in bad faith (such as the notion that you'd somehow need more than that). After all, why would you need more evidence than a game about inventing religions and managing literally Heaven and Hell not being remade? Anything beyond "its a game about managing Heaven and Hell" is intentionally missing the point. I'm not sure what you're going to get out of this conversation, because until a AAA developer makes a Afterlife Simulator game without controversy, we know why an Afterlife Simulator game hasn't been made. Jukebox Hero posted:Other question: you don't MAKE a religion in Afterlife. You just run Heaven and Hell. Sure you do. I could load the game right now and invent AAAAHOHOSUMARALFism on the planet, in a place where nobody has ever heard of it. Later on, invent AAAAOPRASUSAALFism, Sure, once you've invented every permutation of religion you're only shifting the variables, but inventing religions is basically your job. Aria and Jasper work for you, you work for TPTB. I guess I can understand why you wouldn't understand why the concept alone has made unmakeable, if you haven't played the game. After all, if you had, you wouldn't be disagreeing with me. e: I don't know if this is technically content, but I think Team Fortress 2 has burned out all interest in any online multiplayer team games. Like, I occasionally think about playing Overwatch, but it's only a passing interest because I played a ton of TF2 and just out of serious motivation to play anything like it. Not out of any thing that went badly, just purestrain "I've done every minute of this I will ever like". MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 06:06 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 05:23
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MisterBibs posted:I've done so. There's no games like Afterlife, since Afterlife. The point is proven, unless you're arguing in bad faith. That's not how evidence works. Provide actual evidence that is not "I think this because I believe it." Because I think Afterlife never got a sequel, spiritual or otherwise, because it was in a dying genre and was a mediocre game. We both have the exact same amount of evidence here, and I have done zero research. MisterBibs posted:Sure you do. I could load the game right now and invent AAAAHOHOSUMARALFism on the planet, in a place where nobody has ever heard of it. No, you couldn't. You could run Heaven and Hell and you'd work for an angel and a devil. Wikipedia posted:The primary goal of the game is to provide divine and infernal services for the inhabitants of the afterlife. This afterlife caters to one particular planet, known simply as the Planet. Jukebox Hero has a new favorite as of 05:50 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 05:30
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Nuebot posted:I don't disagree with you at all. I'd never recommend it as someone's first Dark Souls. But coming fresh off beating the first Dark Souls? It's pretty fun. It's a complete flip from the first game's layout style and I'm loving it. Sorry, I meant contradictions in the wiki when I was looking for help. I can’t remember which boss it was but two parts of the same article, one claimed it was fire-resistant, the other it was weak. I was approaching it from my side as a newbie to DS2, having to deal with SotFS as opposed to someone with prior knowledge of the game. I enjoy the series, I’m just really bad at them so I do a lot of research.
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Feb 18, 2018 05:46
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Bibs is asking you to prove a negative and it's pretty hilarious because you're arguing afterlife.
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Feb 18, 2018 05:55
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every time i think misterbibs has found the lowest depths of stupidity, he proves me wrong again and again
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Feb 18, 2018 05:55
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Closed-Down Pizza Parlor posted:every time i think misterbibs has found the lowest depths of stupidity, he proves me wrong again and again Well who argues with such a person? EDIT for content: I never played Demon Souls so I looked up world tendency http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/world-tendency So dying makes it harder but you get more souls to level up therefore it makes it easier to up your stats? It sounds pretty interesting actually. What was it like in reality? Vic has a new favorite as of 06:01 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 05:56
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gently caress
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Feb 18, 2018 05:57
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Vic posted:Bibs is asking you to prove a negative and it's pretty hilarious because you're arguing afterlife. I want to know what the gently caress he's actually trying to say, all this other crap is incidental.
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Feb 18, 2018 05:59
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Jukebox Hero posted:I want to know what the gently caress he's actually trying to say, all this other crap is incidental. He's decided to make dying on hills into an olympic sport
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Feb 18, 2018 06:16
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I looked Afterlife on Wikipedia and there was zero mention of any sort of religious controversy. Some light Googling only returned a Kotaku article that makes a similarly handwavey "Well maybe there hasn't been another such game because of religious controversy" while also not providing any kind of actual physical evidence so I can only conclude MisterBibs is Luke Plunkett IRL.
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Feb 18, 2018 06:17
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Like there's a number of hugely successful games that have run roughshod over religion and a lot of the time it's even christianity/pseudo-christianity and nobody gives a single drat. Even past that, if you're arguing "B-but edgy games" my dude, the Postal games were pretty successful for what they were, Hatred which was made by neo-nazis had a ton of people falling over each other to call for it to be put back on steam because MUH FREE SPEEEEEECH, JFK Reloaded is about recreating the shot that blew JFK's head off for laughs, edgy games are a dime a dozen and a number of them were fairly popular or cult classics.
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Feb 18, 2018 06:24
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I mean I think you can make a religion in Civ V
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Feb 18, 2018 06:38
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Maxwell Lord posted:I mean I think you can make a religion in Civ V Yeah that's why Civ VI never came out.
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Feb 18, 2018 06:39
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Don't you fistfight the pope at the end of asscreed 2? I don't remember any controversy about that but maybe I just forgot. You can definitely murder the pope, create a puppet pope, exterminate Islam/Christianity/other religions and go around as a crusading religious fanatic in popular dynasty sim crusader kings 2. Similar stuff in Europa Universalis, and maybe paradox doesn't count as AAA but we're talking sim games so.Vic posted:Well who argues with such a person? There are unique rewards, including the best set of female armour, that can only be accessed with max/near max wt. Since bodies are infinite and can be grinded for but bosses aren't, it's easier to hit pure black than white. Logging off and on also hosed your wt, since it would shift towards server average. Its also not super clear when a world is pure x or almost but not quite pure. It was mostly just irritating if you wanted to get the neat stuff and interactions from hitting max white, and you're unlikely to hit pure black unless you throw yourself into human form a lot and die, or intentionally body dump in a world. Gitro has a new favorite as of 07:09 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 06:48
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Maxwell Lord posted:I mean I think you can make a religion in Civ V We discussed the not-even-close-to-what-Afterlife-does stuff before. Given that it's not even close to what Afterlife is, though, it just keeps being brought up because there's nothing else even close to Afterlife, for the obvious reasons (aka the ones I brought up that drag the game down). No matter how hard you cite games with religion in them, it's never going to spit out a game that proves me wrong. You'd have to have a remake of Afterlife for that, and it's not happening for the reasons I've told you. General drag-down that happens across a bunch of games: in any game in which you have to collect stuff (be they literally collectable items, or just things you need to constantly improve), my motivation to keep playing drops as I get closer to the endpoint. You'd think that it'd be motivating to see that I only have 25 glorbs or one armor slot to upgrade before I'm done, but it's the opposite. I haven't touched Super Mario Odyssey in ages, for example,. because I've got a vast majority of the moons the game provides, and a Saint's Row IV save that's 98% complete that I really just have no desire to finish off. MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 07:21 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 06:53
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There's "nothing else like it" because it was a niche sim game that didn't perform you ignoramus. A sequel made today would be the most inoffensive thing anyone could imagine unless it went off the rails from the original, which was satirical and jokey for a lot of it. Terrorism which you seemed like you were trying to harp on? There's a number of FPS where you can play as insurgent forces, which can even include poo poo like suicide bombing or you can again look at something like Hatred where you're undeniably a domestic terrorist going on a rampage. The laughable idea that people would actually mobilize against "sacrilege" or something? SMT, Persona, Crusader Kings, Civilization, Diablo, a whole truckload of others. Unless they retooled it into something trying way too hard, like "Cast the queers into eternal hellfire" level, literally nobody other than the most down the rabbit hole crazies would care.
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Feb 18, 2018 07:10
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