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It really does feel like the writers had something planned with Jiren that was thrown away at the last second for some reason. Best guess, they had something bigger planned but ran out of time and decided to make him Generic Jerk #637. It's possible the show was cancelled more abruptly than we thought.
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Feb 18, 2018 11:24
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XboxPants posted:Is Jiren just a cop obviously why else would he suck so bad
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Feb 18, 2018 11:26
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It's fine to think Jiren sucks, I'm just saying he makes sense within the anime universe. Also every time people write a "bad" Superman it starts as Jiren is. It's probably not the best shorthand but he's a super strong dude that is just gonna do his poo poo because his morals are the only ones that matter and he's powerful enough to push them.
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Feb 18, 2018 11:29
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Dias posted:It's fine to think Jiren sucks, I'm just saying he makes sense within the anime universe.
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Feb 18, 2018 11:35
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OnimaruXLR posted:obviously I honestly feel like this is the closet I've come to a cohesive characterization of him. He's a "trooper", after all. He's an arrogant, dickbag jerk who will maybe help out his partners out of some kind of squad loyalty, but not because they are his friends. And he's got a massive ego and he's better than anyone else, everyone else is lesser than him, they're all peons who need to submit to his justice. You could just about imagine him saying "respect mah
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Feb 18, 2018 11:36
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"Justice is strength" is basically a fascist slogan after all.
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Feb 18, 2018 11:37
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Onmi posted:If you think Jiren is... anything like Superman even "A cocky Superman" then you have not read or paid any attention to Superman, at all. no that's correct if you mean modern dc edgy superman
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Feb 18, 2018 11:39
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edgy modern superman hasn't been a thing for years outside of the movies to be fair hell justice league even does away with it, it's the only even vaguely redeemable thing about the movie
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Feb 18, 2018 11:41
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Blockhouse posted:edgy modern superman hasn't been a thing for years outside of the movies to be fair pretty much all of dc's alternate timelines are "evil superman" though they're almost as obsessed with that as they are with him banging wonder woman
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Feb 18, 2018 11:42
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Yinlock posted:pretty much all of dc's alternate timelines are "evil superman" though
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Feb 18, 2018 11:44
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Injustice and Red Son were the two things that came to mind there, yeah.
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Feb 18, 2018 11:45
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Blockhouse posted:edgy modern superman hasn't been a thing for years outside of the movies to be fair Snyder's Superman is just a stand up guy being put through lovely no-win situations, I've never understood the fandom insistence he's some kind of edgelord psycho who hates everyone
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Feb 18, 2018 12:01
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multijoe posted:Snyder's Superman is just a stand up guy being put through lovely no-win situations, I've never understood the fandom insistence he's some kind of edgelord psycho who hates everyone if by stand-up guy you mean ayn randian idiot then sure
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Feb 18, 2018 12:22
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Yinlock posted:if by stand-up guy you mean ayn randian idiot then sure Loved that scene where Superman withdrew his labour from the undeserving human looters and let Zod destroy up the world As I said, this insistence Superman was actually some kind of objectivist psychopath is really weird. I don't even begrudge you not liking the films, but complaining about things that simply weren't depicted on screen is bizarre. e: thinking about it Jiren pretty much is objectivist Superman though lol No Dignity fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 12:30
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I've only watched the RLM Half in the Bags of those Superman films but if it's true that in one of them he dodges some attack that he'd be entirely unphased by which then proceeds to hit a skyscraper that'd cause hundreds of death; lol.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:31
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Josuke Higashikata posted:I've only watched the RLM Half in the Bags of those Superman films but if it's true that in one of them he dodges some attack that he'd be entirely unphased by which then proceeds to hit a skyscraper that'd cause hundreds of death; lol. Superman is fighting a DBZ villain who refuses to politely vacate to a nearby wasteland. Reality ensures.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:34
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multijoe posted:Superman is fighting a DBZ villain who refuses to politely vacate to a nearby wasteland. Reality ensures. Josuke Higashikata posted:that he'd be entirely unphased by
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Feb 18, 2018 12:37
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Well Dr. Gero had the answer to that! Just turn the surrounding city into wasteland. and we're set.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:38
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But he wasn't? Zod had exactly the same powers as Superman and was actively trying to kill him, he's on his backfoot the entire time and only wins due to dumb luck in a grapple. Superman did not actually let potentially hundreds of people die because he hates humanity, there's actually an entire film around that scene showing he quite likes them.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:44
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multijoe posted:But he wasn't? Zod had exactly the same powers as Superman and was actively trying to kill him, he's on his backfoot the entire time and only wins due to dumb luck in a grapple. Superman did not actually let potentially hundreds of people die because he hates humanity, there's actually an entire film around that scene showing he quite likes them.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:55
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multijoe posted:But he wasn't? Zod had exactly the same powers as Superman and was actively trying to kill him, he's on his backfoot the entire time and only wins due to dumb luck in a grapple. Superman did not actually let potentially hundreds of people die because he hates humanity, there's actually an entire film around that scene showing he quite likes them. nobody said he hates them, just that he doesn't really give a poo poo because he's above them as a randian ubermensch like remember his dad dying completely pointlessly
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Feb 18, 2018 12:56
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Pureauthor posted:Well Dr. Gero had the answer to that! Just turn the surrounding city into wasteland. and we're set. even after he did that they flew away into another wasteland anyway they just enjoy wastelands that are coincidentally easier to draw
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Feb 18, 2018 12:58
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Yinlock posted:nobody said he hates them, just that he doesn't really give a poo poo because he's above them as a randian ubermensch The real Randian ubermensch is Lex Luthor, and of course it is cool and ironic to agree with the international billionaire President.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:59
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Yinlock posted:nobody said he hates them, just that he doesn't really give a poo poo because he's above them as a randian ubermensch You keep using that word, yet I'm not sure you know what it means
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Feb 18, 2018 13:13
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 Dragon Ball Super, Latin America's finest export
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Feb 18, 2018 13:55
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I wonder if Jiren's weird character shift has anything to do with how he's being received in Japan, too. Especially by the show's audience. It's possible they were getting complaints about Goku looking like a jerk for fighting a superhero, or even that they shifted it to try to give a more black and white finale. gently caress, considering Goku popped off UI twice before this, and considering the arc they gave Vegeta here, I would almost think that the idea was going to be that Goku was going to be unable to complete UI during the tournament, Vegeta would finally get the win, and then Goku would be trying to actually access UI on his own the next arc. After word comes down "hey, we're going on an extended break, give us a big 'Goku beats the badguy' ending so the kids feel satisfied", they have to rearrange so Goku goes UI AGAIN, Vegeta gets to beat Toppo instead, and Belmod exposition dumps a lovely backstory for Jiren that doesn't actually make sense with his attitude. Seriously, Jiren's story feels like it should have ended "and thus, he decided that he must become the strongest himself, so only his own life is at risk and not his comrades'", as opposed to "yeah turns out he decided gently caress it, gonna be buff, gently caress y'all". Though, again, I wonder if that's a divide between a Japanese interpretation, and a Western interpretation. I'd be interested to hear how Jiren's stuff is being taken in Japanese fan circles, and especially among its target audience. Does Toei even have any other properties at the moment it could have matched better with, instead of slotting it in with One Piece? I guess they have their cross over stuff, but One Piece is kind of a loving juggernaut with Oda still running the manga and keeping his poo poo consistent, and Toriyama is sort of not.
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Feb 18, 2018 13:56
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Kurui Reiten posted:I wonder if Jiren's weird character shift has anything to do with how he's being received in Japan, too. Especially by the show's audience. It's possible they were getting complaints about Goku looking like a jerk for fighting a superhero, or even that they shifted it to try to give a more black and white finale. gently caress, considering Goku popped off UI twice before this, and considering the arc they gave Vegeta here, I would almost think that the idea was going to be that Goku was going to be unable to complete UI during the tournament, Vegeta would finally get the win, and then Goku would be trying to actually access UI on his own the next arc. After word comes down "hey, we're going on an extended break, give us a big 'Goku beats the badguy' ending so the kids feel satisfied", they have to rearrange so Goku goes UI AGAIN, Vegeta gets to beat Toppo instead, and Belmod exposition dumps a lovely backstory for Jiren that doesn't actually make sense with his attitude. Vegeta was never going to take the win and there'd have been rioting in the streets if UI didn't pay off to something by the end of the arc. Let Goku have this one, as many have pointed out before he's basically never gets a clean solo win, it would actually be pretty novel if UI Blanco delivers the goods and Goku does decisively beat Jiren in a final epic duel
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Feb 18, 2018 14:03
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Still looking forward to Freeeza and maybe 17 getting one last hit in before the end.
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Feb 18, 2018 14:41
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17 is gone, friend.
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Feb 18, 2018 15:35
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multijoe posted:stop Chill out, thanks.
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Feb 18, 2018 15:37
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Jiren is the worst antagonist there has been by a wide margin and it sucks because he had good potential until his character development (what little there had been) was poo poo on
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Feb 18, 2018 15:41
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Kashuno posted:Jiren is the worst antagonist there has been by a wide margin and it sucks because he had good potential until his character development (what little there had been) was poo poo on Just wasted opportunities all around this arc I can't believe I'm saying this but I can't wait to see where the manga goes with the ToP, it looks like Toyotaro's got some better ideas here
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Feb 18, 2018 15:45
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toyo has some good ideas. toei has some good ideas. toyo has some bad ideas. toei has some bad ideas. It's the ciiiiiirrrcle of liiiiife.
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Feb 18, 2018 15:56
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Kurui Reiten posted:I wonder if Jiren's weird character shift has anything to do with how he's being received in Japan, too. Based on tweets by this episode's writer, there's some reason to believe this episode was written in September 2017 so maybe not. There was absolutely no mention of Freeza at all in this episode which really really makes me think that most of his stuff was written in well after most of it was past the point of no return. This episode is framed like it's finally down to the 1 v 1 between Goku and Jiren and it's not at all. That or this is a flimsily written cash grab weekly series but that could never be... Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 15:56
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Let the manga get ahead of the anime by like 3 arcs then come back from hiatus imo
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Feb 18, 2018 15:57
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I didn't know the anime was ahead of the manga and it wasn't doing a filler arc to stall. How often did that happen in old db
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Feb 18, 2018 16:03
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i enjoy super but im easy to please
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Feb 18, 2018 16:06
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Calaveron posted:I didn't know the anime was ahead of the manga and it wasn't doing a filler arc to stall. How often did that happen in old db the anime is the primary medium here despite toriyama afaict being more involved with the manga.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:07
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Calaveron posted:I didn't know the anime was ahead of the manga and it wasn't doing a filler arc to stall. How often did that happen in old db It wouldn't matter. Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z are adaptations of the Dragon Ball manga. Dragon Ball Super is not an adaptation of the Dragon Ball Super manga, they're two completely different things that utilize the same outlines of a story provided by Toriyama but then take them in whatever direction they want. Super anime has been consistently ahead of the manga due to Toyotarou's monthly schedule and terrible pacing for a manga (the Future Trunks arc genuinely feels LONGER in the manga - not helped by being far more terribly written), beyond the beginning of the Universal Tournament due to the manga skipping Resurrection "F" as Toyotarou had already done a manga adaptation of that. Anyways I was going to post about this episode but the negativity of this thread killed the mood Vegeta's amazing near-death performance gave me, so I won't. I miss when this thread wasn't terrible.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:08
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A few pages back, but:Saagonsa posted:Wait I just noticed this. What? How in the world did Kefla come off as a bad person? She was cocky, but that's it. She even had a pretty good reason to be (she was pretty much flat out stated to be far stronger than goku was at any point). Ah, my bad! Maybe bad person wasn't the right term to use. It's more like anytime someone fought with U7, they sound like a bigger jerk than their characterization should have been? Like in the Cauli/Kale vs Goku fight, the two were barely keeping up with Goku and were all "It's fun to fight!" and "Together, we can do anything!" But as soon as they fused to Kefla, it felt like they shifted more to "I'm gonna crush you!" Same with Ribrianne, when she powered up and 18 had to beat her. It's like everyone else has to be written worse so we'd all be cheering for U7 to beat them up. Kurui Reiten posted:I wonder if Jiren's weird character shift has anything to do with how he's being received in Japan, too. Especially by the show's audience. It's possible they were getting complaints about Goku looking like a jerk for fighting a superhero, or even that they shifted it to try to give a more black and white finale. That's actually what I've been wondering too, back when the show was sweeping Goku's culpability for the tournament being made under the rug. I still remember the scene where the other U7 fighters find out what's truly at stake for the tournament...and no one comes out and says the tournament happened because Goku reminded the Zenos about it. CharlestonJew posted:Just wasted opportunities all around this arc It's at least going to be interesting what ideas he'll come up with to improve the arc (Gohan wearing Piccolo's outfit), and what terrible stuff he'd come up with to drag it all down (the rumor that 17 will be eliminated in the next chapter). Dias posted:Injustice and Red Son were the two things that came to mind there, yeah. How soon we forget the glory that is Superdickery.  If Jiren was dickbag Supes from the old comics, he'd pretend he got ringed out to give Dyspo some insane lesson about responsibility, convince Goku he's actually a robot all this time, and transformed Freeza into a horse.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:09
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