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I got pretty good at pogoing, but could never get a hang of doing it off the void bug things in the White Palace. The container shard you get by bouncing off the centipede was one of the best challenges in the games. Or at least the most ridiculous and fun.
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Feb 19, 2018 00:10
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Your Computer posted:I extracted the music from that place (well, technically from climbing the abyss) from the game because it's so incredible and not on the soundtrack for some bizarre reason, but even listening to it without the sawblades I can still hear them That was actually my biggest issue with PoP. That track is indeed loving fantastic, and it hit hard when it showed up in the other place. But listening to it for 2 hours straight while doing hard platforming around dozens of saws was rather dissonant.
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Feb 19, 2018 00:11
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wyoming posted:I got pretty good at pogoing, but could never get a hang of doing it off the void bug things in the White Palace. Did you try quick slash? Most of my issues with pogo are due to slashing a fraction of a second early and getting punished. Haven't seen the Path of Pain yet. Do want to, but I'll probably have to check a FAQ to find it.
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Feb 19, 2018 00:57
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SirSamVimes posted:The White Palace is actually extremely fun.
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Feb 19, 2018 01:06
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White palace is the worst level of this, and any other, video game.
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Feb 19, 2018 02:39
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It's certainly that odd that you get 1 level of Super Meat Boy after 15 levels of Metroid. There's nothing this intense except the quest for the flower.
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Feb 19, 2018 02:53
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At first, I didn't like the white palace. But then... I did.
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Feb 19, 2018 03:14
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brain dammej posted:At first, I didn't like the white palace. Solid post/user name combo.
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Feb 19, 2018 03:19
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morcant posted:I always get a laugh out of this video re: flower quest Braava! 
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Feb 19, 2018 07:56
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I went back to check up on the Grubfather and all my little Grub buddies!  I... uhhh... I hope this is just part of their life-cycle and they'll all be okay, considering he's thinking about how happy he is 
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Feb 19, 2018 10:05
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Your Computer posted:I extracted the music from that place (well, technically from climbing the abyss) from the game because it's so incredible and not on the soundtrack for some bizarre reason, but even listening to it without the sawblades I can still hear them I found someone on youtube who had mixed together a 10-minute version of that song and grabbed it with a youtube-to-mp3 service.   And yeah, it's a fantastic tune. So haunting.
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Feb 19, 2018 14:06
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The music throughout is just fantastic. I think the first hornet fight was where I really noticed how apt it was, and it just kept getting better after that.
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Feb 19, 2018 16:18
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I love the White Palace and, especially, the Path of Pain EXACTLY because they're unlike anything else in the entire game. Hollow Knight overall is about fighting bugs. The platforming isn't challenging, with a couple unique rooms thrown in that require tricky pogojumping/wallclimbing/dashing or whatnot. The obstacles are mostly enemies with wildly different behaviour/movement. It's an action game first and foremost. Hell, I'd argue it goes in that direction more than Super Metroid, which has stuff like Morphball/Ice Beam/blocks with unknown properties. It really does resemble Dark Souls more in that regard, as tired as that comparison is (of course, how that action handles is ENTIRELY different, so it's more of a design philosophy thing...). And in comes White Palace, which disregards all that and is just 100% precision platformer like Super Meatboy. Hahahahahahaha
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Feb 19, 2018 16:29
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I love how the White Palace is basically you want the best ending? Fine, you'd better prove that you've mastered every aspect of the game, including the platforming.
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Feb 19, 2018 16:37
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Hope you white palace likers are playing Celeste
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Feb 19, 2018 16:40
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lets hang out posted:Hope you white palace likers are playing Celeste discovering my first b-side (chapter 2) was a  moment
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Feb 19, 2018 16:41
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lets hang out posted:Hope you white palace likers are playing Celeste To my personal friends, I declared Hollow Knight my GOTY 2017 something like 2 days after release (24 february), and it has stayed that way (though Prey came close). I'm fairly close to saying the same about Celeste.
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Feb 19, 2018 16:55
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Dancer posted:To my personal friends, I declared Hollow Knight my GOTY 2017 something like 2 days after release (24 february), and it has stayed that way (though Prey came close). I'm fairly close to saying the same about Celeste. this except Iconoclasts
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Feb 19, 2018 17:01
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lets hang out posted:Hope you white palace likers are playing Celeste I've got a backlog, man. Give me some time to wade through it and I'll pick it up.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:42
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Torquemadras posted:I love the White Palace and, especially, the Path of Pain EXACTLY because they're unlike anything else in the entire game. This is the reason why I dislike it. I hate precision platforming so I had zero fun with it. I would've liked it a lot more if it had some amount of combat mixed in. It suddenly felt like I was playing a different game from the one I'd been loving up until that point. Yet despite this I still beat the Path of Pain and did it with Jodi's Blessing equipped because I'm an idiot.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:45
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Internet Kraken posted:This is the reason why I dislike it. I hate precision platforming so I had zero fun with it. I would've liked it a lot more if it had some amount of combat mixed in. It suddenly felt like I was playing a different game from the one I'd been loving up until that point.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:52
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Internet Kraken posted:This is the reason why I dislike it. I hate precision platforming so I had zero fun with it. I would've liked it a lot more if it had some amount of combat mixed in. It suddenly felt like I was playing a different game from the one I'd been loving up until that point. Yeah, that stuff is pretty much crack for me. I've been mainlining Celeste in the past few days, too. Obviously I really enjoy the "main style" of Hollow Knight as well. But I was especially glad the White Palace showed up, because it demonstrated just how far the developers were capable of taking the platforming aspect. I mean, just imagine the developers going all-out and combining the two: methodical combat supported by platforming, AND hardcore platforming. Certainly not for everyone, I'm sure. But I'd love another Path of Pain-type area that throws REALLY nasty combinations of platforming and actual enemies at you... Basically still methodical combat, but under even more pressure. Hahahahaaaaaa
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Feb 20, 2018 00:18
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Capri Sun Tzu posted:I liked it but I understand why people say it's out of place with the rest of the game because it is. it absolutely 100% is no matter if someone enjoyed it or not
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Feb 20, 2018 00:23
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Also I still maintain that regardless of how much you enjoy the platforming, the constant BZZZZZZZZZZ from the buzzsaws ruins the melancholic atmosphere of White Palace. They feel really out of place compared to the hazards found in the rest of the game.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:32
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The White Palace isn't that great because a lot of the platforming isn't precision - there are a significant number of randomized obstacles, depending on your timing, with relatively large obstacle hitboxes, and a lot of the challenge comes not from pressing buttons at the right time, but letting them go at the right time, which is a skill that is not only not otherwise developed in the rest of the game, but is generally not a skill that is often expected in video games in any capacity, and as such is extremely difficult - and frustrating - to learn. Like, there's nothing fun about randomly dying to an obstacle that you didn't even know was there on that ceiling because you happened to hold onto the jump button for an extra frame during that attempt.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:45
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actually the white palace is indeed great
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Feb 20, 2018 03:07
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Bleck posted:...a lot of the challenge comes not from pressing buttons at the right time, but letting them go at the right time, which is a skill that is not only not otherwise developed in the rest of the game, but is generally not a skill that is often expected in video games in any capacity, and as such is extremely difficult - and frustrating - to learn. I actually liked this aspect of it quite a bit - learning to release a jump early is a skill that's been around but not omnipresent at least since some of the early Megaman games, if not longer. Having to extend that to the dash in the spear hallway screwed me up for longer than it should have but it was rewarding when it finally clicked. I cannot recall any places where this comes up in a way that doesn't have visual cues present in advance but I haven't played since Path of Pain so maybe something really unfair is in there. I do agree it would be better if the game taught these skills before testing them, but I'm not sure how it would have done that organically without making less-optional content substantially more difficult for a lot of people.
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Feb 20, 2018 03:27
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That's kind of my point, though - while it may or may not have been enjoyable for some people, the fact that is uses a skill that is otherwise not important at all in the rest of the game is a probably-not-good choice as far as game design goes.
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Feb 20, 2018 03:30
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Yeah, and I'm agreeing with you on that part of it. I'm just also saying it is cool and good to incorporate skills that are less-commonly used in games and I was glad to see that despite its incongruence - I mean the entire White Palace is already, as everyone agrees, an almost completely different skillset than the rest of the game. In that context I appreciated it, but I totally get why people would prefer that context not happen. How much slack to cut it on "optional side area" grounds is a personal call.
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Feb 20, 2018 03:54
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Bleck posted:That's kind of my point, though - while it may or may not have been enjoyable for some people, the fact that is uses a skill that is otherwise not important at all in the rest of the game is a probably-not-good choice as far as game design goes.
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Feb 20, 2018 04:59
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Capri Sun Tzu posted:Counterpoint, this part of the game is optional Optional things can be good, or bad, or fitting, or misplaced. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 20, 2018 05:02
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Arrhythmia posted:Optional things can be good, or bad, or fitting, or misplaced. But this one is good
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Feb 20, 2018 05:10
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Somehow, I never get tired of White Palace Discourse, i mean that seriously too... It’s good to have things that test you now and again imo... I really don’t think it was prohibitively difficult, as much as you just do have to think about it now and again, and do something you haven’t before, which I don’t think is overly burdensome! But that is my opinion and we all have them, god bless the white palace
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Feb 20, 2018 05:31
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Capri Sun Tzu posted:Counterpoint, this part of the game is optional Disagree with this. While you can get an ending without beating white Palace its obviously not the good ending and you miss a lot of content by doing it. I'd consider getting the Radiance ending to be what all players should aim for to get the best experience out of Hollow Knight, and that requires beating White Palace.
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Feb 20, 2018 06:09
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Yeah, saying White Palace is optional is disingenuous. And honestly I'd be okay if they toned down the vanilla palace since us masochists have Path of Pain now, it's by far the most contentious part of the game as-is.
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Feb 20, 2018 06:15
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Internet Kraken posted:Disagree with this. While you can get an ending without beating white Palace its obviously not the good ending and you miss a lot of content by doing it. I'd consider getting the Radiance ending to be what all players should aim for to get the best experience out of Hollow Knight, and that requires beating White Palace. I mean I agree that it makes for the best experience, but part of the reason is that the Radiance ending involves a really great and fairly challenging final boss fight. I would suspect that a large majority of people who can't handle the White Palace (buzzsaw soundtrack objectors aside) would not be able to handle that fight either.
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Feb 20, 2018 07:08
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Precision platforming requires a pretty different skillset and approach than a difficult boss fight though. Beating the Radiance didn't take nearly as long as clearing White Palace did for me.
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Feb 20, 2018 07:10
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Irony.or.Death posted:I would suspect that a large majority of people who can't handle the White Palace (buzzsaw soundtrack objectors aside) would not be able to handle that fight either. See above regarding how combat and platforming are two different skillsets, only one of which the game has you developing as you play. It's not a question of being Good at Video Games, but rather, suddenly being expected to be good at a video game that you haven't been playing. The comparisons of the White Palace to Super Meat Boy are accurate, and I think unintentionally demonstrate the problem - imagine if Super Metroid suddenly interrupted itself 90% of the way through and gave you a bunch of end-game Super Meat Boy levels to play. Even if you like Super Meat Boy - which I do! - it's jarring, and a little inorganic, and a bit frustrating as a result.
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Feb 20, 2018 07:16
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except there has been quite a few platforming challenges throughout Hollow Knight. Getting the Crystal Heart, getting the Greatslash, and the passage down from City of Tears to Ancient Basin are a few notable ones. None quite so involved as the White Palace, but saying the game has never expected you to do challenging platforming is just incorrect
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Feb 20, 2018 07:28
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None of the platforming in the rest of the game is nearly as hard though. Also its usually not completely divorced from combat like White Palace is. It feels drastically different from the rest of the game.
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Feb 20, 2018 07:30
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