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NPR Journalizard posted:Sure, we may have locked up asylum seekers in tropical death rape camps but at least we were in power when we did it, check mate leftards. That's what voters want.
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Feb 20, 2018 01:53
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Solemn Sloth posted:I feel like the point is getting lost which is that we should develop a strategic nuclear arsenal and test it in Perth Do you mean something like an anti-neutron bomb that is harmless to people and only targets suburban sprawl?
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Feb 20, 2018 01:53
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JBP posted:Pretty compelling that in our modern age where these things have ascended to greater importance that the Liberal party has experienced greater success in the electorate than anyone else. Yes I'm sure that'a nothing to do with rampant corruption and unprecedented media bias at all! 
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Feb 20, 2018 01:58
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JBP posted:That's what voters want. Australians are idiots, hth.
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Feb 20, 2018 01:58
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JBP posted:Pretty compelling that in our modern age where these things have ascended to greater importance that the Liberal party has experienced greater success in the electorate than anyone else. agreed, kill the electorate.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:01
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Don Dongington posted:Yes I'm sure that'a nothing to do with rampant corruption and unprecedented media bias at all! I too blame everyone but myself when things aren't going my way.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:01
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JBP posted:I like to ignore things even when presented with evidence that they do, in fact, exist and cause a measurable impact
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Feb 20, 2018 02:05
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JBP posted:Pretty compelling that in our modern age where these things have ascended to greater importance that the Liberal party has experienced greater success in the electorate than anyone else. Agreed, we can’t possibly ascertain which issues people are voting for, we should probably adopt the entire policy platform of whichever party last won an election just in case
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Feb 20, 2018 02:05
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Senor Tron posted:SA Premier is currently walking about our office doing some election photo op stuff. Think they are very much the underdogs given how much they need to gain over the last election just to keep their current number of seats but hope SA Labor win, they're doing good stuff lately. Just out of interest, which office? Premier and Cabinet?
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Feb 20, 2018 02:06
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Solemn Sloth posted:Agreed, we can’t possibly ascertain which issues people are voting for, we should probably adopt the entire policy platform of whichever party last won an election just in case Well bringing asylum seekers on shore is split 50/50 but I bet I could convince a further 20% to leave them offshore with a nice tax break.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:07
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I'm pretty sure 20% could be convinced if presented with factual data regarding integration and economic benefit vs bogan dogwhistling.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:10
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JBP posted:Well bringing asylum seekers on shore is split 50/50 but I bet I could convince a further 20% to leave them offshore with a nice tax break. offshore banking units but refugees
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Feb 20, 2018 02:10
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Don Dongington posted:I'm pretty sure 20% could be convinced if presented with factual data regarding integration and economic benefit vs bogan dogwhistling. We've literally been doing this for what, 20 years now? It hasn't worked.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:10
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Aesculus posted:We've literally been doing this for what, 20 years now? Have you not noticed the bulk of the media being dominated by white supremacist christians and hammering the same nationalist sentiment or something?
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Feb 20, 2018 02:13
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If you think a Boomer gives a gently caress about facts more than MY OPINION then lmao.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:13
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Don Dongington posted:Have you not noticed the bulk of the media being dominated by white supremacist christians and hammering the same nationalist sentiment or something? I have. I just don't see a way out of it without literally guillotining the entire Murdoch family I mean realistically if we're going to be ~pragmatic responsible sensible moderates~ I'd rather have medicare and offshore processing than no medicare and offshore processing given that we haven't exactly been successful in making medicare and integration a viable option against the unstoppable three-word slogan bullshit we're up against.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:14
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Boomers will believe what ever the gently caress Channel 7 tells them to.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:14
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Don Dongington posted:Boomers will believe what ever the gently caress Channel 7 tells them to. No. Channel 7 tells them what they already want to hear after 50 years of developing an unflinching position. If it stopped, they'd watch something else or use the internet to locate ideological reinforcement.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:16
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nationalise the boats
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Feb 20, 2018 02:17
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Birdstrike posted:nationalise the boats Unironically this.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:17
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JBP posted:No. Channel 7 tells them what they already want to hear after 50 years of developing an unflinching position. If it stopped, they'd watch something else or use the internet to locate ideological reinforcement. Of course! That explains the more recent, measurable rise of white nationalism, and the overton window generally shifting violently to the right since the rise of tabloid journalism and coordinated messaging between the Liberal Party and Top Liberal Party Donors Kerry Stokes, Rupert Murdoch and Gina Rhinehart, via their respective media outlets, oh wait no it doesn't, you're an idiot.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:21
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If you think the news director at seven doesn't just do things for ratings then I don't know what to tell you.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:22
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If you think Kerry Stokes isn't running as much of a narrative as Rupert Murdoch, you need to take a breather from all the fart huffing.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:23
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Would it help if I called you a name? That seems to be your mode of communication.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:26
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Take me seriously you fart huffing idiots - the Australian greens (aka migrants from Stonnington and Booroondara)
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Feb 20, 2018 02:29
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https://www.buzzfeed.com/aliceworkman/byo-binocularsquote:Former Liberal senator, turned Australian Conservative, Cory Bernardi told RN Breakfast on Tuesday morning ministers are sleeping with their staff. However, he declined to name names.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:30
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My first car was a stick
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honest question: in your opinion, should political parties champion a specific, consistent set of values and policies or instead adopt the predominant view in the electorate?
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Feb 20, 2018 02:34
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My mother, for some reason, was convinced that Warren Truss was loving his much younger (male) chief of staff.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:37
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BBJoey posted:honest question: in your opinion, should political parties champion a specific, consistent set of values and policies or instead adopt the predominant view in the electorate? Even if the latter weren't a morally defunct position, I wouldn't say that putting muslims in torture camps is as supported a position as people are assuming here.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:40
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I don't think it's pragmatism to simply chase what the voters want when the other side of politics is influencing and guiding what the voters want. Labor seems to think the relationship is voters->policies and that it's a one-way relationship. The result is Labor sliding to the right then the Liberals sliding further to the right. The Overton Window has shifted dramatically and I blame Labor for simply pandering to the worst aspects of the swing voter rather than trying to guide the political discourse. They are trying to out-Liberal the Liberals and it is doomed to fail. This is why I couldn't join Labor and try to change from within. There doesn't seem to be even the attempt to seize the narrative, but to simply observe the voter and chase. The entire time the Liberals have been shifting the political opinions of society, and Labor has only been responding. The rise of Corbyn shows that standing up for bold left positions and being a figurehead can attract a lot of support seemingly from out of nowhere. It's because you normalise left positions in the minds of voters, and show that those positions are not fringe. In Australia we have had once-fringe right-wing positions become mainstream. We need to push it back in the other direction and Labor is simply not doing it.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:44
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JBP's right, there's no point in any left wing policy at all. Might as well just fold Labor into the LNP now and get it over and done with. That way Labor can stop pretending to give a gently caress about workers rights.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:48
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Don Dongington posted:Even if the latter weren't a morally defunct position, I wouldn't say that putting muslims in torture camps is as supported a position as people are assuming here. It is supported by 50% of poll respondents. Parties should champion their ideology, but their reason for existence under parliamentary democracy is governance in accordance with the electorate's wishes. I'd offer a scenario to consider. If a violent working class revolution were to occur in Australia this instant, how many foreigners do you think would survive? AgentF posted:I don't think it's pragmatism to simply chase what the voters want when the other side of politics is influencing and guiding what the voters want. Labor seems to think the relationship is voters->policies and that it's a one-way relationship. The result is Labor sliding to the right then the Liberals sliding further to the right. The Overton Window has shifted dramatically and I blame Labor for simply pandering to the worst aspects of the swing voter rather than trying to guide the political discourse. They are trying to out-Liberal the Liberals and it is doomed to fail. We have also had once fringe left wing positions become prominent as well. I don't think people should forget that the ALP were the great liberaliser of the Australian economy and it has been policy for 45 years now to play ball with business and promote "balanced" private-public solutions to problems. JBP fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 02:49
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CrazyTolradi posted:JBP's right, there's no point in any left wing policy at all. Might as well just fold Labor into the LNP now and get it over and done with. That way Labor can stop pretending to give a gently caress about workers rights. Finally. Thank you.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:49
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Don Dongington posted:Even if the latter weren't a morally defunct position, I wouldn't say that putting muslims in torture camps is as supported a position as people are assuming here. a quick poll of people who work in my office/warehouse would be: 2 x opposed to camps 3 x in favour of camps 1 x thinks the muslims are planning to take over australia and fly helicopters around the city playing "muslim prayer music" to prepare us for their religion when they take over soon. If we also take into account past staff that would push the "in favour of camps" number to about 10, and also throw in one "hitler did nothing wrong" style white supremacist. You cannot deny these numbers it is a very scientific poll.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:50
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GoldStandardConure posted:a quick poll of people who work in my office/warehouse would be: How is life in the Honourable Michael Danby's office anyway? E: I assume Hitler man was the former greens staffer that left thirty pieces of silver on Gross's desk.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:52
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JBP posted:How is life in the Honourable Michael Danby's office anyway? less good since they banned all the free sex, but the free home upgrades & utes are still good!
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Feb 20, 2018 02:54
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AgentF posted:I don't think it's pragmatism to simply chase what the voters want when the other side of politics is influencing and guiding what the voters want. Labor seems to think the relationship is voters->policies and that it's a one-way relationship. The result is Labor sliding to the right then the Liberals sliding further to the right. The Overton Window has shifted dramatically and I blame Labor for simply pandering to the worst aspects of the swing voter rather than trying to guide the political discourse. They are trying to out-Liberal the Liberals and it is doomed to fail. It's not just Corbyn anymore either. The Dems have had a number of upset wins in the US by campaigning on local issues, while the GoP are focused on lovely rhetoric and canned talking points that worked so well for them against the hollow 2016 Dem campaign. If labor continue to run as a pack of empty suits, they're going to remain vulnerable to the kind of identity politics that swept them away in 2013. If Labor let their feet touch the ground and stop pandering to the media and the Liberal's manufactured narrative quite so much, they'll find themselves in a much stronger position with an electorate that are frankly sick of ID Pol, of party politics, of 100% of the focus being on issues that don't really fix the problems that affect them day to day. I cite this a lot, and while they're so far a huge disappointment to me, WA Labor ran on a platform of achievable goals and improvements to every day people's lives in 2016 and totally romped it in. They tried to avoid the drama that personified the WA Liberals and PHON at the time, and this resonated with the public. All Federal Labor need is a platform of honest and achievable change, and to stick to that platform. It doesn't have to be to the left of Lenin, and they don't need to target right wing Liberals or Left wing Greens hard liners - all they need to do is present themselves to the public as an agent for responsible change and improvement. The Libs cannot compete in that territory anymore, because everybody knows their promises are hollow, and fear won't Trump opportunity.
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Feb 20, 2018 02:54
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they’re going to try beazley’s childcare centres in schools again maybe
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Feb 20, 2018 03:00
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JBP posted:Take me seriously you fart huffing idiots I was born in glen eira fucko
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Feb 20, 2018 03:15
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JBP if you don't want to try to make the world a better place, just stay out of politics dude. You're only doing damage for no reason.
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Feb 20, 2018 03:25
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