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Seems more useful to group nameplates that all represent the same manufacturer Ford/Lincoln/Buick together is about 11 pages Chevy/GMC/Cadillac/Pontiac is about 16 pages Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler is like 22 pages, about half of that due to Jeep Mercedes is about 7 pages. BMW/Mini is like 21 pages, but some of those are motorcycles. Toyota and Honda are at like 3 or 4 pages each, even including their luxury nameplates. Without knowing actual numbers for cars owned of each type it’s hard to make much of this other than VW and Subaru are on there a whole drat lot and if you care about reliability just buy a Honda or Toyota.
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Feb 23, 2018 02:25
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Seems more useful to group nameplates that all represent the same manufacturer Either this is a brain fart or you're in for a hell of an education.
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Feb 23, 2018 02:43
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Powershift posted:Either this is a brain fart or you're in for a hell of an education. It’s a brain fart. Ford/Lincoln should be at like 9.5. Chevy, et al should be a couple of pages higher. YOLOsubmarine fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 02:48
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Without knowing actual numbers for cars owned of each type it’s hard to make much of this other than VW and Subaru are on there a whole drat lot and if you care about reliability just buy a Honda or Toyota. Exactly why I own two Toyotas 
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Feb 23, 2018 03:17
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Powershift posted:Helping a friend rent a car. Budget now calls the fusion "standard" and the Malibu "full size" and a VW golf with winter tires "special" at twice the price of the other two. Fusion. Half the Malibu's I rent end up being the Malibu Limited, which is garbage.
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Feb 23, 2018 03:43
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rdb posted:The R1200GSA switched to water cooled in 2014, would explain a lot. My guess is that Subarus are being a little over-represented between headgasket failures on older 4 cylinder models and spun bearings on older turbo-4 models probably contributing to a lot of those lemons. A considerable amount of those lemon Imprezas are in fact WRXs and STIs. I can't quite explain why there are so many newer Legacy, Outback, and Forester lemons. (The STI is still considered an Impreza in that document.)
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Feb 23, 2018 04:09
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Edward IV posted:My guess is that Subarus are being a little over-represented between headgasket failures on older 4 cylinder models and spun bearings on older turbo-4 models probably contributing to a lot of those lemons. A considerable amount of those lemon Imprezas are in fact WRXs and STIs. I can't quite explain why there are so many newer Legacy, Outback, and Forester lemons. (The STI is still considered an Impreza in that document.) I did a little bit of research, and it looks like subaru had a big oil burning problem as well. Had I seen this list a week ago I probably wouldn’t have bought one. Ohh well.
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Feb 23, 2018 04:13
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rdb posted:I did a little bit of research, and it looks like subaru had a big oil burning problem as well. Had I seen this list a week ago I probably wouldn’t have bought one. Ohh well. Yeah I read about that too when i was car shopping and was looking at a really sweet Outback Sport so I passed on it. Funny enough, I ended up getting a Scion xB that also had oil burning issues but only up to 2010 so I got a 2012 and it's been fine. *knocks on wood
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Feb 23, 2018 04:38
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rdb posted:The R1200GSA switched to water cooled in 2014, would explain a lot. oh that's easy to figure out: the reason is that they are poo poo cars
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Feb 23, 2018 04:41
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A Proper Uppercut posted:I realize it's probably because sadly, nobody buys Mazda, but theres only like 10 of them on there. And only three FIAT 500s. About a dozen 500Ls and five 500Xs. Yeah, FIAT doesn't sell a lot, but that's a pretty small number for all the bitching people do about their quality.
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Feb 23, 2018 04:58
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Newer Subaru’s also had CVT issues that resulted in a warranty extension which could be part of it as well.
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Feb 23, 2018 05:02
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My understanding of Fiats is that they’re chintzy as gently caress but simple enough to be more or less reliable outside of dumb little poo poo breaking. This may be wrong. Speaking of, how is modern Volvo? I never thought I’d consider a luxury brand but I fuckin love their new wagons and cuvs
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Feb 23, 2018 05:08
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cool startup feel posted:https://twitter.com/hoonable/status/966815600268935168 "2016 MERCEDES BENZ MAYBACK S600" :facepalm:
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Feb 23, 2018 05:15
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Charles posted:"2016 MERCEDES BENZ MAYBACK S600" It’s a good side hustle. Dude probably came out ahead and had a free $300k car for the better part of a year.
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Feb 23, 2018 07:05
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Seems more useful to group nameplates that all represent the same manufacturer Or looking at that, a mazda or mitsubishi. Mazda has like 15 vehicles on the list, mitsu has 8 total. Another thing that might be relevant to this is how good a dealer network is. If they're fixing issues as they crop up and taking care of customers, they won't be as likely to lemon law something.
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Feb 23, 2018 07:42
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I wish there was a (like the guy himself says) lemons per 100k or something. Otherwise the data is pretty useless in the grand sense of things.
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Feb 23, 2018 08:20
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What the gently caress happened with VW? It was okay, okay, okay, then HOLY gently caress THE FLOODGATES OPEN! Was that partially due to Dieselgate or would that have been a separate issue?
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Feb 23, 2018 13:05
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PT6A posted:What the gently caress happened with VW? It was okay, okay, okay, then HOLY gently caress THE FLOODGATES OPEN! It's probably because they make bad cars with BMW engineering at a Kia price point
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Feb 23, 2018 13:17
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PT6A posted:What the gently caress happened with VW? It was okay, okay, okay, then HOLY gently caress THE FLOODGATES OPEN! I don't understand the question. Are you perplexed that a car company with legendary failure modes (i.e. coolant in the taillights) has a high lemon law thingy? Anecdotes aren't data and all that but my mom's 93 cabriolet was a festering pile and I've had a brand new jetta kill its stereo on a test drive. 
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Feb 23, 2018 13:31
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The more time you spend in the industry the more you realize the term "German engineering" is not complimentary.
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Feb 23, 2018 15:27
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rdb posted:
Subaru is by far the least reliable (and most difficult to repair) Japanese manufacturer in my experience. Yes that even includes Suzuki and Mitsubishi.
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Feb 23, 2018 16:37
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Human Grand Prix posted:Subaru is by far the least reliable (and most difficult to repair) Japanese manufacturer in my experience. Yes that even includes Suzuki and Mitsubishi. How is this compatible with the high percentage of older subarus in working condition still on the road, and their high resale values? Do people just love them and shell out to fix them?
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Feb 23, 2018 16:44
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Twerk from Home posted:How is this compatible with the high percentage of older subarus in working condition still on the road, and their high resale values? Do people just love them and shell out to fix them? ask ken
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Feb 23, 2018 16:46
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They must. Obliviously some are solid vehicles but I'd take a Toyota, Honda, or Mazda product if I cared about quality, serviceability and reliability over a Subaru. If you don't care about good interiors or design Nissans are generally pretty reliable vehicles. Mitsubishi is a bad joke but their cars are cheap to repair and relatively straightforward.
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Feb 23, 2018 16:48
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Twerk from Home posted:How is this compatible with the high percentage of older subarus in working condition still on the road, and their high resale values? Do people just love them and shell out to fix them? Yes and yes. Plus the perennial love of Subarus has almost entirely been with their AWD wagons among the general public, which arguably predicted the crossover craze. The same can be said of the XJ Cherokee and 1980s 4WD wagon versions of the Toyota Tercel/Corolla and Honda Civic, all of which command some eye-opening large prices these days for super clean examples. That and the vehicles like the WRX/STI were basically unknown in the US market when it hit in 2002 (there was much talk if it would even sell well here, which is pretty lulz in retrospect). EnergizerFellow fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 16:54
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Powershift posted:Helping a friend rent a car. Budget now calls the fusion "standard" and the Malibu "full size" and a VW golf with winter tires "special" at twice the price of the other two. The rental car companies have always used size definitions that differ from literally everybody else (including the vehicle manufacturers themselves!). Next time you want to piss off a CSR and end up with the worst car on the lot, remind them that Ford themselves call the Fusion a mid-size. They're also the only places on earth where an Optima is "equivalent to" a Fusion.
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Feb 23, 2018 17:02
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Suzuki have always made good, solid vehicles. They were just too basic to compete in North America. VW also makes nicer vehicles than the Japanese competition, with better designed interiors. There's a reason they sell, and it's because most people don't really think about reliability seriously.
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Feb 23, 2018 17:06
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Twerk from Home posted:How is this compatible with the high percentage of older subarus in working condition still on the road, and their high resale values? Do people just love them and shell out to fix them? What really mystifies me is how consumer reports can still recommend them, along with other publications. The data isn’t there to support that. Must be pay for placement. Anecdotal, but my family members in upstate NY love their Subarus. I wanted something known good in snow, subaru awd ticks the boxes.
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Feb 23, 2018 17:18
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SlapActionJackson posted:The rental car companies have always used size definitions that differ from literally everybody else (including the vehicle manufacturers themselves!). Next time you want to piss off a CSR and end up with the worst car on the lot, remind them that Ford themselves call the Fusion a mid-size. They're also the only places on earth where an Optima is "equivalent to" a Fusion. I never understood this, either. Does a Fusion Titanium really cost the car company the same as a base model Cruze? How is giving me a Jeep Compass an upgrade over an Outback? Why has ordering the same exact thing from the same company given me at various times an Escalade, a Volvo v60, a Camaro SS, about a thousand v6 300s/Chargers, many Impala "Limited" shitboxes, a base Focus, a Nissan Maxima, several Sonatas and a Prius? What do those cars all have in common besides 4 wheels? KillHour fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 17:20
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I know what's wrong with the VW Atlas, it's made by illiterates in Tennessee
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Feb 23, 2018 17:23
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Subaru's headquarters are in New Jersey.
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Feb 23, 2018 17:25
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SlapActionJackson posted:They're also the only places on earth where an Optima is "equivalent to" a Fusion. wait what? How are they not?
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Feb 23, 2018 17:30
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Feel like for a while Subaru didn't have a lot of competition in the "AWD system in a vehicle that is not a big fuckoff truck/SUV" category. Like yeah now we've got CUVs coming out of our ears but it wasn't too long ago that Subaru was the first thing you thought of. They got a foothold early on and people still love them for the time being even though there might be better options in terms of reliability now. In a similar vein look how little the WRX has changed- just not a ton of competition so they kind of don't need to. People keep buying them.
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Feb 23, 2018 17:32
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kill me now posted:wait what? How are they not? Yeah those are the only two cars I cross-shopped back when I bought my Optima.
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Feb 23, 2018 17:34
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Wheeee posted:There's a reason they sell, and it's because most people don't really think about reliability seriously. Well, if you don’t keep cars out of warranty maybe it’s just not that important to you. And modern cars are so reliable generally that even the very unreliable ones, relatively, have pretty drat low failure rates in absolute terms, so most people who buy a new car, no matter what brand, are getting one that will work just fine for them.
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Feb 23, 2018 17:37
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KillHour posted:I never understood this, either. Does a Fusion Titanium really cost the car company the same as a base model Cruze? How is giving me a Jeep Compass an upgrade over an Outback? Why has ordering the same exact thing from the same company given me at various times an Escalade, a Volvo v60, a Camaro SS, about a thousand v6 300s/Chargers, many Impala "Limited" shitboxes, a base Focus, a Nissan Maxima, several Sonatas and a Prius? What do those cars all have in common besides 4 wheels? I once rented a car and upgraded to a "premium" car because I was having a bad day. It was a 300. I made a joke about it and the lot guy got really upset. He was personally upset that I did not think a 300 was very premium. I ended up just getting in the car and leaving as he was still ranting about it.
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Feb 23, 2018 18:03
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Well, if you don’t keep cars out of warranty maybe it’s just not that important to you. And modern cars are so reliable generally that even the very unreliable ones, relatively, have pretty drat low failure rates in absolute terms, so most people who buy a new car, no matter what brand, are getting one that will work just fine for them. Oh totally, for all the poo poo I talk about VW, if I were in the market for a C segment car the only two I consider in the same league to be cross shopped with the Golf are the Civic and Mazda3. The Jetta also pisses all over a Corolla in every metric aside from expected reliability and resale. But still, lol VW
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Feb 23, 2018 18:26
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They are going to try and out you in whatever they have on the lot . That's the important aspect.
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Feb 23, 2018 18:31
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euphronius posted:They are going to try and out you in whatever they have on the lot . That's the important aspect. Which worked in my favor the one time I have ever rented a car I was expecting an absolute piece of poo poo that would make me miserable, ended up in a brand new civic because they wanted it off their lot.
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Feb 23, 2018 18:41
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Yes and if you are *nice* to them they will often upgrade you for free .
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Feb 23, 2018 18:46
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