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yeah, i think trumpism will unfortunately survive trump even if trump gets impeached somehow. i mean hell, Nixons ideas/policies are still around(they are the center of the party now) and a decent amount of his cronies and hangers on are still around and in some cases in power. Trumpism is just all that awful poo poo but way more naked about it and "populist".
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Feb 26, 2018 02:34
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"Trumpism" is just where the GOP (and especially CPAC) have been going for at least a decade. Like even the white nationalism stuff wasn't really new. You could see it popping up at CPAC around Ron Paul and others. Ted Cruz has been rubbing elbows with pastors who call Hitler a chosen saint of God. Trump just helped push it forward in a really overt way since he's such an unrepentant, shameless monster that he sparked the whole embracing of "deplorable" and "talks like regular people."
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Feb 26, 2018 03:36
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STAC Goat posted:"Trumpism" is just where the GOP (and especially CPAC) have been going for at least a decade. Like even the white nationalism stuff wasn't really new. You could see it popping up at CPAC around Ron Paul and others. Ted Cruz has been rubbing elbows with pastors who call Hitler a chosen saint of God. Did Ron Paul really embrace the racism angle, or was it a case of racists with pseudolibertarian beliefs just gravitated towards him? (I'm not arguing, just curious)
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Feb 26, 2018 05:16
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If we're to believe him, he only has racism published in his name.
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Feb 26, 2018 05:28
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Fearless posted:Did Ron Paul really embrace the racism angle, or was it a case of racists with pseudolibertarian beliefs just gravitated towards him? My memory is that he had written for racist publications in the past and had a couple of those "whoops, I didn't mean to meet with/speak for these racists who are totally bad" thing. I seem to recall a bunch of groups showing up at CPAC around Paul and getting the Milo "you're welcome until people publicly talk about you and then you be politely asked to leave." Wasn't he also an advocate to repeal the 14th amendment? Paul didn't "embrace" white nationalism and racism but you could argue Trump and others haven't "embraced" it. Trump plays less coy than Paul and others but that's mainly because he has no subtlety or shame or sense. He needs to be reminded not to agree with the racists a couple of times. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Feb 26, 2018 |
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Feb 26, 2018 05:41
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That racist publication was The Ron Paul Newsletter. He said that all the racist content was ghostwritten. So he's racist unless you believe that Ron Paul of the Ron Paul Newsletter does not speak for Ron Paul, writer of the Ron Paul Newsletter.
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Feb 26, 2018 05:56
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A black camera woman got peanuts thrown at her along with racial insults during CPAC and that was before Trump. The Republicans are going to pretend that Trumpism is something totally disconnected from their party ideology but he's just the logical next step from where they have been headed for a while without any sort of pretense he isn't garbage and only cares what White Nationalist voters think.
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Feb 26, 2018 13:46
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STAC Goat posted:"Trumpism" is just where the GOP (and especially CPAC) have been going for at least a decade. Like even the white nationalism stuff wasn't really new. You could see it popping up at CPAC around Ron Paul and others. Ted Cruz has been rubbing elbows with pastors who call Hitler a chosen saint of God. I've heard most of the Ron Paul stuff but what's this about Cruz? I've never heard that before.
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Feb 26, 2018 15:12
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Pants Donkey posted:Michael Savage was flirting with running against Dianne Feinstein this year This is a guy who couldn't handle questions on NPR.
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Feb 26, 2018 15:29
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Radish posted:A black camera woman got peanuts thrown at her along with racial insults during CPAC and that was before Trump. The Republicans are going to pretend that Trumpism is something totally disconnected from their party ideology but he's just the logical next step from where they have been headed for a while without any sort of pretense he isn't garbage and only cares what White Nationalist voters think. I don't see how it's possible to ever put that genie back in the bottle. Republicans have been wink-wink-nudge-nudge encouraging racists for 40 years while also encouraging their base to believe that anyone pointing out or shaming racism is a PC enemy of freedom, and now they can't stop Trumps and Moores from winning primaries.
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Feb 26, 2018 16:32
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VitalSigns posted:I don't see how it's possible to ever put that genie back in the bottle. I could see things changing if we make it to about 2030 or 2040. A lot of people are framing the current rise of the far right as a new youth movement but most of them are still middle aged and older, and as the Baby Boomers die out and their power base dwindles I could see the business wing reasserting control and moving left again on social issues.
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Feb 26, 2018 16:35
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Fearless posted:Did Ron Paul really embrace the racism angle, or was it a case of racists with pseudolibertarian beliefs just gravitated towards him? like babylon astronaut said, if ron paul didn't write or endorse the racist articles in the ron paul newsletter, who did? one of them was something like "if you've ever been robbed by a negro, you know how incredibly fleet of foot they can be while escaping with your valuables. this is because of extra bones in the feet" etc. etc.
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Feb 26, 2018 17:06
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It’s quite possible Ron Paul legitimately had nothing to do with the newsletter. He loaned his name to anything that would get him extra cash. He totally believes that stuff even if he didn’t write it or read it however so it’s kinda moot.
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Feb 26, 2018 17:13
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Lightning Knight posted:I could see things changing if we make it to about 2030 or 2040. A lot of people are framing the current rise of the far right as a new youth movement but most of them are still middle aged and older, and as the Baby Boomers die out and their power base dwindles I could see the business wing reasserting control and moving left again on social issues. Eventually, but I'm not sure how soon it would be. Not only are Republicans dominated by old racist fucks, but they're horrifically unpopular among anyone under 35. Old fucks dying will only help de-crazify the party if they're also attracting socially liberal young people and they don't seem to be.
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Feb 26, 2018 17:15
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It would be incredibly easy to convince me that Ron Paul, not gamer gate, was the beginning of the current iteration of the American political cringefest
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Feb 26, 2018 17:15
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Lightning Knight posted:I could see things changing if we make it to about 2030 or 2040. A lot of people are framing the current rise of the far right as a new youth movement but most of them are still middle aged and older, and as the Baby Boomers die out and their power base dwindles I could see the business wing reasserting control and moving left again on social issues. Nah. I'm not convinced that demographics are destiny, and the business wing has been using racism for decades to appeal to the base to get what they will want. They will easily go open fascist if it will protect their power.
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Feb 26, 2018 17:15
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I can easily see plenty of millennials turn into Fygm fiscal conservatives who go on to vote GOP if we ever pass student loan forgiveness programs in the same way those who benefited from FDR’s reforms went on to support Goldwater when times got better.
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Feb 26, 2018 17:24
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E: whoops, double post.
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Feb 26, 2018 17:25
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Reflections85 posted:I've heard most of the Ron Paul stuff but what's this about Cruz? I've never heard that before. Prior to Trump Ted Cruz was cozying up to a ton of fringe alt right and christian groups and people. In a lot of ways Ted Cruz was paving the path for himself as an "outsider" who appealed to all the same people Trump did, but then Trump showed up as a genuine outsider who appealed to all those people in a more overt way and it resulted in Ted Cruz selling his soul for nothing. There's lots of stories and scumbag people who Ted Cruz happily accepted the endorsement of in the lead up to 2015-2016 but one of the more memorable is Mike Bickle, an evangelical pastor who amongst other heinous things believes that the end times are coming but first the Jewish people will go through another Holocaust where God will send hunters to kill those Jews who don't accept Jesus, and that Adolf Hitler was one of these hunters. Ergo the Holocaust was God's work and Hitler his hand. Ted Cruz eventually condemned this idea but only after numerous refusals to do so, defenses of Bickle, and even when he did condemn them he STILL defended Bickle as a great man who he was proud to be endorsed by. Also Cruz claims he didn't know any of these things about Bickle but he was actually on a stage with Bickle just moments before he said the Hitler stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Bickle_(minister) https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/ted-cruz-welcomes-endorsement-guy-who-thinks-god-sent-hitler-hunt-jews/
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Feb 26, 2018 17:45
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TheQuietWilds posted:It would be incredibly easy to convince me that Ron Paul, not gamer gate, was the beginning of the current iteration of the American political cringefest I think it was specifically Ron Paul supporters in the 2012 election that kicked off a lot of that stuff. Ron Paul seemed to have a rosier reputation during the 2008 election - his libertarian policies were framed as "he thinks that it should be okay to smoke weed, bro" instead of "listen, if a state decides that executing homosexuals is lawful, we can't do anything about it." I saw a lot of otherwise-liberal people on my college campus supporting Ron Paul, just because they thought he supported hippy-dippy fantasy libertarianism instead of "capitalist dystopia" libertarianism. By the time 2012 rolled around, Ron Paul had enough bad stuff to his name that the "casual supporters" he had in 2008 were long gone, so the only people supporting him were the people who were totally okay with the whole "almost undoubtedly a racist and definitely a homophobe" thing. By that point, they were driven almost entirely by spite. When they inevitably lost, they were bitter, angry, and prone to conspiracy thought... And then some feminist tried taking away their video games a few years later, and internet culture (and neo-nazi recruiters) took it from there. I wouldn't say that Ron Paul is the reason for Trumpism or anything, but it was definitely an illustration of the cult of personality and sense of alienation that it requires, just on a smaller scale. We should have listened.
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Feb 26, 2018 18:00
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ProperGanderPusher posted:I can easily see plenty of millennials turn into Fygm fiscal conservatives who go on to vote GOP if we ever pass student loan forgiveness programs in the same way those who benefited from FDR’s reforms went on to support Goldwater when times got better. lol you think things are getting better
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Feb 26, 2018 18:01
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I kind of felt like there was a line from Ron Paul to Donald Trump that even kind of went through Bernie Sanders. That's not me equating the three or saying that majority or even a plurality of Bernie's supporters were Paulites or racists (or Trump's for that matter). Just that there was an element of "outsider" populist white anger through all three movements and Trump embraced the gently caress out of the "white anger" part while Bernie absolutely didn't. Please note that this is NOT me calling all Bernie Supporters "Bernie Bros." I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking a vocal fringe that I think responds to something in all three. But I think that's kind of secondary to "the rise of Trumpism" and CPAC and the depravity of Evangelicalism is really a bigger one and was Ted Cruz's actual designed path to the Presidency.
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Feb 26, 2018 18:13
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STAC Goat posted:I kind of felt like there was a line from Ron Paul to Donald Trump that even kind of went through Bernie Sanders. That's not me equating the three or saying that majority or even a plurality of Bernie's supporters were Paulites or racists (or Trump's for that matter). Just that there was an element of "outsider" populist white anger through all three movements and Trump embraced the gently caress out of the "white anger" part while Bernie absolutely didn't. I think it's obvious things are generally hosed up and bullshit across the board, so it's different flavors of that. Bernie's 'flavor" is anger towards the corporatist establishment. Trump is pure white nationalist nazi anger. Ron Paul was more disaster prepper/libertarian style isolationist anger. There's a Venn diagram of overlaps, sure. But they are distinct.
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Feb 26, 2018 18:19
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Yeah, the venn diagram overlap is probably the better way to verbalize what I was kind of trying to get across. I don't think there's really a direct line between the three but there's definitely some overlap.
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Feb 26, 2018 18:21
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, the venn diagram overlap is probably the better way to verbalize what I was kind of trying to get across. I don't think there's really a direct line between the three but there's definitely some overlap. We see that all the time with the gun debate: commonly identifying something is a problem with wildly different ideas on how to fix it. That, along with plenty of disingenuous assholes wanting to chum the whole thing up to serve their own agenda!
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Feb 26, 2018 18:44
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Lightning Knight posted:I could see things changing if we make it to about 2030 or 2040. A lot of people are framing the current rise of the far right as a new youth movement but most of them are still middle aged and older, and as the Baby Boomers die out and their power base dwindles I could see the business wing reasserting control and moving left again on social issues. speaking as someone who grew up in the black belt, i wouldn't bank on white people getting less racist once they're visibly in the minority boner confessor posted:like babylon astronaut said, if ron paul didn't write or endorse the racist articles in the ron paul newsletter, who did? one of them was something like "if you've ever been robbed by a negro, you know how incredibly fleet of foot they can be while escaping with your valuables. this is because of extra bones in the feet" etc. etc. yeah the story was lew rockwell wrote all the oogity boogity scary negro stuff for the paul gold scam newsletter, but ron's always trafficked in the post-civil rights backlash minority-induced urban decay survivalist fever swamps there's no better way to explain why his dumbass kid's first example of domestic drone use being to shoot down someone robbing a liquor store. that's definitely been something they joked about during thanksgiving dinner The Muppets On PCP fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Feb 26, 2018 |
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Feb 26, 2018 18:51
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VitalSigns posted:I don't see how it's possible to ever put that genie back in the bottle. Scariest thing is just how many of them there are. They're not the majority by any means but the level to which they're dug in is frightening. They'll excuse anything. Trump was right when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his supporters would hold strong.
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Feb 26, 2018 18:54
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STAC Goat posted:I kind of felt like there was a line from Ron Paul to Donald Trump that even kind of went through Bernie Sanders. That's not me equating the three or saying that majority or even a plurality of Bernie's supporters were Paulites or racists (or Trump's for that matter). Just that there was an element of "outsider" populist white anger through all three movements and Trump embraced the gently caress out of the "white anger" part while Bernie absolutely didn't. the people for whom ron paul, donald trump, and bernie sanders all hold similar appeal likely never voted
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Feb 26, 2018 19:07
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STAC Goat posted:Prior to Trump Ted Cruz was cozying up to a ton of fringe alt right and christian groups and people. In a lot of ways Ted Cruz was paving the path for himself as an "outsider" who appealed to all the same people Trump did, but then Trump showed up as a genuine outsider who appealed to all those people in a more overt way and it resulted in Ted Cruz selling his soul for nothing. some goon posted:I just want to remind everyone of something.
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Feb 26, 2018 19:08
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quote:Kashuv said Israel was "virtue signaling against the NRA" and "didn't even act properly." who wants to bet this kid watches ben shapiro videos on repeat. http://insider.foxnews.com/amp/article/60407
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Feb 26, 2018 19:16
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pretty cool that the look look we got one of our own tokenism has extended from women to minorities to teenage survivors of a school shooting
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Feb 26, 2018 20:24
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It amazes me out of all the chaos and horror of 2016 that the GOP candidate that won the election probably wasn't even the worst possible candidate we could have got. Cruz is every bit as evil as Trump but is just competent enough to act upon it in ways that Trump never would.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:40
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Feldegast42 posted:It amazes me out of all the chaos and horror of 2016 that the GOP candidate that won the election probably wasn't even the worst possible candidate we could have got. Cruz is every bit as evil as Trump but is just competent enough to act upon it in ways that Trump never would. Ted Cruz is an incredible fuckup. A Cruz admin would only be slightly more competent than the current one. We did dodge some number of bullets as a nation during the primary, but the nightmare scenario we're currently in is that Pence is probably going to be president at some point. He's cartoonishly evil and dangerously competent. ErIog fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 26, 2018 |
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Feb 26, 2018 22:14
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ErIog posted:Ted Cruz is an incredible fuckup. A Cruz admin would only be slightly more competent than the current one. But the media would treat it like they treated Bush, so instead of being a comedy parade of hot takes and amusement it would be nothing but what the NYT currently does. So people would think everything was normal and fine even as the Abrams tanks rolled into North Korea against a mushroom cloud background.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:17
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ErIog posted:Ted Cruz is an incredible fuckup. A Cruz admin would only be slightly more competent than the current one. Is he actually competent. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...way_street.html "This bill won't legalize discrimination. It won't." "Will you put language in the bill to make sure of that?" "Nope, not changing it now, for no particular reason bye!"
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Feb 26, 2018 22:24
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Yeah, Cruz isn't half the political genius he thinks he is and he's riddled with outrageous connections and statements but compared to Trump he's got enough political IQ and basic sense that we'd have none of the criticism from the right we have with Trump and way less of the general outrage. Cruz is horrible in a million ways but like, he would have had the good sense to criticize the KKK after Charlottesville. Hell, Charlottesville probably doesn't happen in that timeline. Trump is just a unique beast all together who changed poo poo. I guess Accelerationists are happy.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:27
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watch any time cruz questions an expert on global warming when the science committee is holding sessions and tell me he's smart.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:22
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Oh, I think he's half an idiot. But that's still smarter than the brain dead full idiot in the White House.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:16
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Today Rush revealed the true perpetrators behind the Parkland shooting: Obama and Holder. See way back in 2013 (I think that was the year) they started something called the Promise Program where schools would punish students for misdemeanors rather than having them get arrested and getting a criminal record. They talked about how this was so wonderful and kids would benefit from it and get a future, but secretly it was just a way for the evil federal government to meddle in education, and the greedy schools to get a bunch of taxpayer money since they'd get huge checks every time a cop didn't make an arrest for a kid who committed a crime. And if it wasn't for the Promise Program then Nicolas Cruz would've been arrested and then he would have a criminal record and he wouldn't have been able to buy a gun and he wouldn't have shot up the school so Obama and Holder are therefore personally responsible for the shooting.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:19
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^^^OF Course^^^ gently caress Rush Limbaugh. Wrong thread but everyone should watch Letterman's interview with Obama on Netflix and remind myself what a real president is. Seems like loving 20 years ago. And is it me or is Hannity on a loving loop now? I used to tune in for 5 or 10 minutes and wait for a blatant untruth but now I just switch over and wait for Uranium GPS and attacks on the FBI. Holy poo poo. It's genuinely legit real Geobbels stuff at this point, repeated constantly.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:48
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