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achtungnight posted:Walrus Pete- Because I have the ability to laugh at irritating others built up from long experience manipulating the emotions of others online. Thank you and a few others for playing into my hands. Muhahaha! this is incredibly bizarre and you should probably have let it go several fanfics ago
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Feb 26, 2018 01:24
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Without getting too deep into spoilers, more and worse will be coming in the future. To semi borrow a quote from a TV show... That is because not very many happy things happened on Azeroth. So let's please all let this circular discussion drop. Tomorrow begins a new week, and hopefully the next update will be ready then.
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Feb 26, 2018 01:33
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DoubleNegative posted:Without getting too deep into spoilers, more and worse will be coming in the future. To semi borrow a quote from a TV show... That is because not very many happy things happened on Azeroth While this is true, I think there is only one other mission that requires you personally to kill non-combatants. And even that other mission is less for genocidal reasons and more they will summon people who can fight." Most of the other atrocities shown on screen are against people who can defend themselves to some extent. Or against buildings(that may have innocents in them).
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Feb 26, 2018 01:41
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But sometimes people aren’t comfortable with such invoked responses- and that can be a bad thing. To evoke such responses in and of itself is not always commendable IMO. It is very interesting that you will accept such emotional manipulation from a video game but not from another person pushing similar buttons. What do you consider the difference? I don’t care how bizarre or childish you think my words are. My intentions were to state my opinion and see what happened, nothing more. You don’t like me playing emotional manipulation with you? Good. Then you may understand why I was disturbed by WC3, a series of video games that before this point had limited itself to faceless RTS games in my experience, doing the same thing with me. Does a piece of media’s ability to do such a thing make it great? Not in and of itself. Emotional responses are different and unpredictable. Not everyone is going to feel the same way as you hope, or as the writer intended. That’s the risk you take writing media like this. DN- I was typing while you responded. No problem, thx for stepping in. I look forward to the next update. Last thing I’ll say regarding the previous debate- if the writers of WC3 were willing to accept the risks of writing such a story, so should their fans IMO. achtungnight fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Feb 26, 2018 |
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Feb 26, 2018 01:41
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achtungnight posted:But sometimes people aren’t comfortable with such invoked responses- and that can be a bad thing. DoubleNegative posted:So let's please all let this circular discussion drop.
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Feb 26, 2018 01:43
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In more productive news, Jaina Proudmoore: not to be hosed with still in WoW. https://i.imgur.com/swcUREE.gifv
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Feb 26, 2018 01:50
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painedforever posted:It's done very naturally, very organically. They seeded how brash and impatient Arthas is from the second mission, when he wants to rush in and defeat that Orc Blademaster. You're probably right. Arthas was Uther's 'charge', but it was also kinda unclear whether Arthas really had the power to fire him -- he claims right of succession, etc., but he still wasn't yet the king.  Still, there's no denying Arthas was kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. Acting fast and decisively was absolutely the right thing to do. However, leaving such a brash and experienced dude *alone* in the midst of such a lovely yet important situation is at least a tiny bit irresponsible. Basically, yeah, Uther was stuck in a lovely situation, too. But he shouldn't get off scot free, either. Jaina, too, who is leaving *entirely* of her own accord instead of being fired, but Blizzard has shat on Jaina enough so I won't do it this time.
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Feb 26, 2018 01:52
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achtungnight posted:But sometimes people aren’t comfortable with such invoked responses- and that can be a bad thing. To evoke such responses in and of itself is not always commendable IMO. It is very interesting that you will accept such emotional manipulation from a video game but not from another person pushing similar buttons. What do you consider the difference? People generally want a story to emotionally take them places. I don't how you are playing emotional manipulation with me, but I think why people don't like your posts is because you are saying that writers shouldn't make people feel disgusting or disturbed. The ability of a story to make you feel an emotion is the bare minimum a story should do. You SHOULD be disturbed, and disgusted by the decision of Arthas. By the sounds of it, the writing made you feel exactly how it wanted you to. (Just saw the above posts, I'll stop)
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Feb 26, 2018 01:56
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Cythereal posted:In more productive news, Jaina Proudmoore: not to be hosed with still in WoW. Where is this? Also, anyone want to do the Caverns of Time instance of the purging?
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Feb 26, 2018 02:16
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Calax posted:Where is this? This is Stormwind in the new expansion. Jaina is the Horde PC's encouragement to leave when the Horde retreats from their attack on Stormwind.
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Feb 26, 2018 02:17
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facepalmolive posted:Basically, yeah, Uther was stuck in a lovely situation, too. But he shouldn't get off scot free, either. Jaina, too, who is leaving *entirely* of her own accord instead of being fired, but Blizzard has shat on Jaina enough so I won't do it this time. Oh, undoubtedly! Oh such things are tragedies made, etc. Addressing the discussion in the thread... back when I played this for the first time, this mission didn't really affect me in any way. I mean, I was in my 20s, and to be honest, I don't have much empathy for my little digital dudes... aside from in the investment in terms of resources to create them. So, I have no empathy left when it comes to killing other digital dudes who are an objective. It's just how I see it. When Arthas called for the purge, I just thought, "Oh, an interesting twist! I wonder if it's faster to kill bad guys or to destroy houses." I had a dickens of a time, because I like to turtle, to build up my forces and then upgrade them with everything before going out to fight. I mean, yeah, I want to be the good guy in games when I have the choice. Being a jerk in RPGs is really difficult for me (even Renegade options in Mass Effect), especially because the PC is a stand-in for me. But if the game doesn't give choices, then I don't care, because I'm just along for the story. Like Overlord. You have a choice about being more or less evil, but you're still an Evil Overlord. It's odd, though, how RTS treat you. In the StarCraft campaign, you're addressed directly by everyone. I don't remember if that happens in Brood War as well, but you are a character. In WarCraft I and II, you were also a character. In WarCraft III (and in StarCraft II, I think), you aren't really there. There's no stand-in for the player. And then in C&C (and Red Alert), you have these live action actors and actresses addressing you directly both during briefings and during play. I can see how someone might feel conflicted about killing helpless digital dudes.
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Feb 26, 2018 07:11
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I think my favourite thing about Warcraft is how it turns people into gibbering fools; arguing extensively about lore that was, in all likelihood, thrown together at the 11th hour by a writer during crunch. See also: the multiple, 10,000+ post Lore threads in the WoW forum. [edit] Also, Arthas did nothing wrong. He couldn't help being an idiot, after all.
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Feb 26, 2018 08:02
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Let's contemplate two scenarios. Scenario 1: Arthas, having chased the undead through several grueling missions, arrives in Stratholme only to find out that he's too late again. The second most populous human city has fallen victim to the plague, and if it is not purged, the undead win here and now. Thousands of zombies will outright overwhelm his forces, then (with the ungoing undead conversion boost) go on to conquer the kingdom, if not the whole world. Even if he starts the purge right now, he may not make it in time - but thankfully, Jaina and Uther are there to help him, so if they start executing civilians right goddamn now they just might manage it. Uther understands Arthas' concerns, but being a paladin, is a bit hesitant to jump headfirst into the "let's murderize thousands of our own people for Given the urgency of the situation described above, Arthas, fearing the Uther might hinder the culling, and thus inadvertently serve at the tipping point between victory and a defeat that dooms the human race, sends him away. He is convinced that the validity - necessity - of his point of view is self-evident enough that he is genuinely baffled when Jaina joins Uther instead of helping him. For their part, it's entirely possible that Uther and Jaina realize on some level that there's nothing they could do to cure the plague in time, and that Arthas' solution, horrific though it is, is the only possible one, and are happy to be absolved of moral responsibility by being sent away. Scenario 1 is a conflict of principles, stances and perspectives. Scenario 2 starts out about the same, except in his sheer goddamned stupidity, Arthas doesn't bother to explain what the plague actually does (even though... he absolutely does) and why he believe the destruction of Stratholme is necessary (even though, again, he absolutely does). For their part, Jaina and Uther don't even understand why Arthas suddenly decided to start slaughtering civilians. It really would seem like the prince has gone quite utterly berserk for no reason, and thus they react appropriately by... neither investigating it and asking him to clarify, nor restraining Arthas and his troops / defending the villagers. They just walk away for no particular reason. Scenario 2 is a Three's Company episode with zombies.
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Feb 26, 2018 19:46
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Dude I thought 2xNegative told us to drop it with the fanfics.
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Feb 26, 2018 19:59
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Siegkrow posted:Dude I thought 2xNegative told us to drop it with the fanfics. everyone knows a double negative is a positive
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Feb 26, 2018 20:29
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Chapter XI: Divergent Courses & The Shores of Northrend Hello everyone and welcome back to Warcraft III. This is the last interlude in the Human campaign, and I bet you can guess what it's about. Here's a hint. It's about the same thing the previous two were.  Arthas burned Stratholme, and the city will never stop. The last time it got an update in the third WoW expansion, it was still burning and that was almost a decade later. The evil he visited on this city will never go away.    : So much death... I can't believe Arthas could've done this.   : Ah, Jaina. I thought I might find you here. Where has he gone, girl? Where has Arthas taken the fleet?: He came to me before he left. I pleaded with him not to go. I told him it sounded like a trap!: Where? There's a long pause here. Long enough to be awkward.  : drat that boy! I've got to inform King Terenas. Don't be too hard on yourself, girl. You had nothing to do with this... slaughter.Can we take a moment to frown at Uther for how much of a bastard he's being? He runs up to someone who's obviously in shock and starts browbeating her for information.    So even without their help, Arthas completely put a halt to Mal'Ganis' plan. : You! Arthas is only doing what he believes is right! : Commendable as that may be, his passions will be his undoing. It falls to you now, young sorceress. You must lead your people west to the ancient lands of Kalimdor. Only there can you combat the shadow and save this world from the flame. Northrend is where the game of trying to reconcile the Warcraft 3 map and the WoW map starts breaking down farther. Taking the map at face value, we've landed in the Howling Fjord, in the mouth of Daggercap Bay. If WoW is to be believed, we've landed in an arctic tundra farther northwest, in the Dragonblight. Given the abundance of trees in the mission, I'm inclined to believe this map. The Dragonblight does not have many trees. It's a cold, desolate wasteland full of nothing but snow, ice, and dragon bones.    : This is a Light-forsaken land, isn't it? You can barely even see the sun! This howling wind cuts to the bone and you're not even shaking. Milord, are you alright? : Captain, are all my forces accounted for?: Nearly. There are only a few ships that--: Very well. Our first priority is to set up a base camp with proper defenses. There's no telling what's waiting for us out there in the shadows. Something about the blue and green palette of this tileset makes it just feel cold, you know?  Anyway, we've got two quests already and a hidden optional as well. This mission is a nice change of pace from the previous levels where we were under time pressure. We've got all the time in the world here.  The first part of this level is a small semi-linear path. There's several branches off, but they all reconverge with each other. There's also a bunch of hostile creeps along the way.  Speak of the devil, there's a few now. Wolves in this universe have never been particularly smart, always attacking nearby people in spite of how suicidal that turns out to be for them.  I really hate when my units do this. The melee ones run in first and crowd around a narrow entrance, blocking everyone else off from entry. In hindsight, I should have just backed everyone off and had them fight in the wider space about 5 feet away.  The large wolf drops a scroll when he dies. A scroll I'll probably never use.  : Ice trolls...There's various reasons why, including suicidal stupidity, but I'm fairly certain that Northrend ice trolls (The Drakkari) are all but extinct on present day Azeroth. The short, simple reason for why is "they're loving stupid." They were holding their own in a war against the undead forces here in Northrend. Then the undead made a slight push into Drakkari territory and the troll leaders freaked out, summoned their gods, and then they devoured those same gods. Literally devoured their essence. While they were doing this they forgot to fight back against the undead. So that "slight push" became a major offensive. They also made the mistake of holding onto blue and purple loot in a world filled to the brim with loot crazy murder hobos. Naturally this is oversimplifying things.  A little past a Drakkari camp, we find some nerubians just chilling. Nerubians are another victim of the undead occupation of Northrend. These guys, however, lost their war. Native spider people can't hold their own against a rising tide of the walking dead. There's a lot more to them than meets the eye, but we'll get into that much, much, much later in the LP. Like, in the final levels of the final campaign of the expansion. The takeaway here is don't feel sorry for them. While nigh extinction of any species is sad, their fate is not undeserved. The insect men of Azeroth are, to a one, huge assholes.  One of the spider men is carrying this, though. It adds 6 extra points of frost damage to attacks, and slows whatever you hit. We'll leave this where it fell for just a little bit. We'll be back for it later.  Just behind the Drakkari camp that we annihilated we find the path to continue on. And a cutscene!     : Bloody hell! You're not undead! You're all alive!: Muradin? Muradin Bronzebeard, is that you?: drat, boy. I never imagined that you'd be the one to come to our rescue!: Rescue? Muradin, I didn't even know you were here. : Of course I'll help, Muradin. Let's move!  : I don't have the plans on me, lad. But if you can save my men, I'll gladly share knowledge of our steam tanks.: Tanks?: Aye. Imagine the devastation that just one mortar team can cause, now make the cannon bigger, and driven by a coal fired furnace.  : Excuse me, sir. If you're going to save my friends I can show your engineers how to make more gyrocopters. Air superiority wins wars, you know!: That will be very useful. Thank you! The worst thing you can do in this mission is head straight north like I'm doing here. There's a purple undead base just due north of us, and they're sleeping right now. If you disturb them, they'll wake up and start attacking.  There's no point in going up the right side of the map anyway. You need to walk a hero into Muradin's base in order to rescue them. So these guys will be safe for the time being. The green undead base on the map will be more interested in attacking us because we're the player.  Oh and lastly, Muradin joins us as the third human hero type, the Mountain King. If the Paladin is a tank, then the Mountain King is a damage dealing archetype.  Muradin joins at level 5 with at least 1 point in all his base skills.  Storm Bolt is his bread and butter attack skill. It deals a lot of upfront damage, stuns enemies, and for whatever reason can't target mechanical units. Though it can target airborne enemies.  Thunder Clap deals moderate damage and inflicts a slow on nearby ground enemies. Not much to say about it, but very useful regardless.  There are some RPG custom maps that let you put more than 3 points in skills for the heroes. Bash is one of those skills that makes Mountain Kings annoying to fight in those maps. At level 3, Bash is insanely good. That's a 40% chance on every attack to stun. This stun does not suffer from diminishing returns, and can chain proc. Muradin also attacks decently fast.  The Mountain King's ultimate ability is just a "gently caress you I win" button. So now that we've got some downtime, I'm going to send Muradin to pick up all that loot that dropped at the start of the level. Alright, so there's no new structures and only two new units for this level. So how about some no context shots of building the base up?   Occasionally the green base sends out attack parties. These gradually ramp up in strength, but never to the levels seen March of the Scourge. Also present is a lich who tries to do something worthwhile and fails.  Anyway, back to the construction glamor shots.    A little north of the base are more Drakkari.  The leader drops a +50 health tome that I use on Arthas because he's the main character of this campaign.  So the green undead base is trying to be clever. In order to throw you off your guard, they introduce airborne attackers here. Most players probably aren't expecting this their first time through and have to scramble a defense.  That's why I built those towers. Also not pictured is the gyrocopter offscreen shooting at them. Having a couple gyrocopters to supplement base defenses is a great idea.   So with construction proceeding smoothly, and being between attacks as we are, let's go exploring the neighborhood. What we find is that directly outside the base is a huge circular path that we can camp out in.  There are some unfriendly natives, but nothing we can't handle.  This ancient wendigo is one of the most dangerous enemies we've fought so far. He's level 9 out of a maximum of 10, he hits like a runaway freight train, he can do his own thunder clap...  And when he dies, he drops this little icon. It's a gravestone with sun rays shining down on it, which means...  We have to kill him twice!  Base construction continues apace.  After the ancient wendigo dies a second time, Muradin gets his own set of damage increasing gloves.  At the top of the circle area outside our base are two paths, leading northwest and northeast. These obviously lead to the two different undead bases. This also means we can set up towers at these natural chokepoints and keep most of the pressure off of our base as a result!  More farms going up. 8 will be enough to cover us until the end of the mission.  With a castle, we can build an upgrade that lets our gyrocopters attack land units. This is why they're fantastic units to support a base defense group. You can use the copters to hit the inevitable siege weapons in the back of whatever attacks you. And the AI is usually too dumb to target them.  RTS games are very weird to LP. You either are inundated with things to document and have to babysit the recording, or you've got things so well in hand that there's nothing to show but pictures of your base as it's being built. There's really no in between. Even the occasional attacks by the undead aren't worth mentioning. It's the same group of ghouls, a necromancer, and the lich... or it's the five flying units again. By the way, those are gargoyles.  This is something I should have built a while ago, but there's just been no need. This, by the way, is required to upgrade a keep into a castle.  This is as nasty as the attacks get. An abomination and a meat wagon. It's really sad.  This is an upgrade we've had available for the past two missions, but there's been no need to take it so far. The undead aren't exactly well known for their invisible units. The only one that they have can't attack, and just provides them with line of sight to your stuff. We're fighting the AI, so it knows where all of our dudes are at all times anyway.  This second barracks won't even be useful. I'm just building it because I can. I've got almost 7,000 gold! At some point Muradin levels up, and he learns his ultimate. So now he can turn into an unstoppable engine of destruction. We'll be putting that to very good use in the next mission.  I don't remember if I showed this off before. Keeps can be upgraded into a castle for their final upgrade. That allows you to build Knights and other top tier units. : Thassarian, status report. : Nothing to report, Prince Arthas. The base camp is operating smoothly. We haven't had any problems with undead incursions in days. Everything is nice and quiet.: Wait, really? There's no emergencies or catastrophes?  : The only problem I forsee us having in the future is a temporary lumber shortage. But taking care of that should be no trouble at all.    : Lord Bronzebeard's dwarves have also been kind enough to share with our artisans advanced smithing techniques. They require some rare materials, but that should not be a problem. The mineral wealth up here is virtually untouched. : Well in which case, I would like for you to set up some defense towers at the location I've marked on the map. It's at a natural chokepoint in the terrain, and will be trivial to defend. That is a lot of gargoyles. That's gotta be at least 8 of them. Given how tightly they're stacked, it's hard to tell. But they picked one hell of a place to attack, I'll give them that.  A field of towers that are waiting for upgrades to the north, Arthas' troops in the middle, and a pair of gyrocopters coming up from the south.  With a castle, we can get two new upgrades at the lumber mill. Peasants can be trained to carry 20 lumber at a time, and...  I can't even begin to guess what the hell is going on here. Maybe the bricks are imbued with magic? Whatever the case, it makes human buildings sturdier than ever.   : Prince Arthas, our engineers have developed a way for gyrocopters to attack ground targets as well. We believe these bombs they're developing will also greatly damage any buildings they hit.: That is excellent news. Mal'Ganis will not be able to hide any longer once we turn those on him. : Once we destroy these undead, I'm taking a group and heading north to rescue Muradin's men. Thassarian, base defense will be yours until I reestablish contact. Captain Falric will be with me.: Yes sir. The purple base is pretty immature. You're supposed to blunder into it early and then it will start attacking Muradin's dwarves. But by leaving it alone until now, we vastly outclass it. Also pictured near the graveyard on the far right is another new undead unit, the Crypt Fiend. It can cast a web ability to bring flying units down to the ground where they're helpless. It's only here to deter us from scouting with our gyrocopter.  : That's them! And they're still under attack from the undead!: Let's move, men! Those dwarves need help!The base only has a couple of structures and is mostly staffed by the ziggurats that attack nearby units. So we probably could have come here earlier.  It takes almost no time before the purple base is gone and the way to Muradin's men is open.  And as soon as a hero gets close, we get a bunch of mid-tier structures and a bunch of peasants working a goldmine. We also get the steam tank.   The gyrocopter's bombs attack deals light siege damage, and the mortar team deals medium siege damage. The steam tank deals a fuckton of siege damage. They also have fortified armor, so they're exceptionally weak to other siege attacks. It can be a problem if you murderball everyone into a base at the same time, but siege units are slower than everyone else. So they tend to trickle in once all the enemy units are otherwise occupied.  They're fairly expensive, but you only need a couple of them.   : Prince Arthas, our Elven alies would like you to know that they have developed new spells for our sorceresses and priests.: Thank you, Thassarian.Polymorph is temporary crowd control, while Inner Fire is a powerful temporary armor and damage buff. Inner Fire makes priests even more indespensible than they were before. That's not to discount polymorph, as crowd control can be extremely helpful in chaotic fights. But you can't beat a 10% increase in armor and damage dealt.  Let's get some magic users ready for the final attack on Mal'Ganis' base.   Skipping ahead several minutes, the final attack team is ready. Muradin's group is more support focused, but together they're going to turn the other undead base into rubble.  Unlike the purple base, the green base is very full of structures and hostile units. Mercifully the lich is still being rebuilt from his last attack, so we don't have to worry about him.   Don't worry if you can't really tell what's going on in these shots. It's just as messy in motion. Just stay focused on healing your dudes.  Then before you know it, there's only two buildings left.   : Well, lad, there's an ancient way gate that lies somewhere in this glacier wasteland. Supposedly, it transports you to a hidden vault where a runeblade named Frostmourne is held.: We came here to recover Frostmourne, but the closer we came to finding the way gate, the more undead we encountered. : No matter. He can't hide from me forever. Captain, tell Thassarian to establish this site as our primary base.: Yes, milord.     NEXT TIME: Dissension DoubleNegative fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Feb 27, 2018 |
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Feb 27, 2018 04:21
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Muradin Bronzebears?!? Oh god
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Feb 27, 2018 05:00
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Inner Fire's defense bonus isn't a percentage, it's a flat bonus of something like 4 or 5. Which as you can imagine, is a whole lot more than +10%.
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Feb 27, 2018 05:00
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Another point to the voice acting here, but Arthas notably lightens up a bit in tone around Muradin seeing as they're old friends, and it's a nice relief in the midst of the trying times. 
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Feb 27, 2018 05:21
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A small correction from a WoW vet - the southern Dragonblight, including the place where WoW says Arthas landed in this mission, is actually quite heavily forested along the coast. The trees disappear as you head inland. The really tree-less tundra part of Northrend is the Borean Tundra.
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Feb 27, 2018 05:33
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I hadn't recognized until this LP that Arthas decided to build his new base on top of the fallen Undead one. That seems like... not the wisest move.
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Feb 27, 2018 06:01
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Good mix of units this time around. I think I'll throw in the generic version of Muradin Bronzebeard, the Mountain King. The model is exactly the same anyway. The Steam Tank doesn't get any dialogue, it's just random whistles and bubbling noises (because it's a Steam Tank. ****** Line time! Ready lines are used by units when they're produced. What lines are used when they're initially selected. Yes lines are used when they're given a move order. Attack lines are used when they're given an attack order. Warcry is used randomly for Attack when attacking hero characters. (Thanks to Drakenel for the correction) Pissed is what you get when you keep clicking a unit and it exhausts the What lines. Special is for builder units, and for certain special units, e.g. Uther, who is an AI-controlled character. Gyrocopter: All of the dialogues have the background noise of rotors. Ready
What
Yes
Attack
Warcry
Pissed
Special
Mountain King: Ready
What
Yes
Attack
Warcry
Pissed
Muradin Bronzebeard: What
Yes
Attack
Warcry
Pissed
painedforever fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Mar 2, 2018 |
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Feb 27, 2018 06:48
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Nice to be getting back to basics this Mission. Build the base, save the dwarves, wipe out the enemy. Nothing worrisome.  Scroll of the Beast, if anyone is curious, provides a temporary damage boost to allied units. I forget the exact numbers. Also hooray for not including flying units that are only good as scouts like WC2 did with its Gnome Flying Machines- are Gnomes even still in the Alliance?
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Feb 27, 2018 08:42
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bladeworksmaster posted:Another point to the voice acting here, but Arthas notably lightens up a bit in tone around Muradin seeing as they're old friends, and it's a nice relief in the midst of the trying times. Yeah, that's true! Arthas is very peremptory and abrupt with the Captain in the start, but he shows shades of his previous good cheer when speaking to Muradin.
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Feb 27, 2018 08:48
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achtungnight posted:Nice to be getting back to basics this Mission. Build the base, save the dwarves, wipe out the enemy. Nothing worrisome. I think if the timelines Line-up the Gnomes are currently about to irradiate their capital and only city with fantasy nuclear waste.
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Feb 27, 2018 08:51
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Someone sure enjoyed celebrity Jeopardy. This is a fun mission to play. It's a good mix of exploration, base building, and smashing.
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Feb 27, 2018 09:03
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achtungnight posted:Scroll of the Beast, if anyone is curious, provides a temporary damage boost to allied units. I forget the exact numbers. 
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Feb 27, 2018 09:19
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DoubleNegative posted:
Just for reference for those who haven't played WC3, since Thassarian as a character hadn't been introduced yet, DN editted this line slightly. In the game, Arthas tells the Captain "I want you to establish this site" etc. Curiously, the Captain speaks with the Knight's voice here, instead of the Captain's voice. A small, but very noticeable detail. Also, a very important detail about Steam Tanks: They are the only attacking unit in the game that can only attack buildings. It is completely helpless against other units, aside from its spectacular durability to all things not siege damage. Steam Tanks are destructive as all hell, but if it's not a building you're after, the Tank is worthless. The expansion changed their design slightly, and their name, but also gave them an upgrade that allows them to attack air units. Still helpless against ground units, but it gave the Steam Tank (now called the Siege Engine) some more versatility. Meanwhile, the Gyrocopter, renamed to the Flying Machine, was turned into a dirt-cheap unit with rock-bottom stats all around. It's really depressing.
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Feb 27, 2018 11:55
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Adding o to the previous post, I think they are the only non-building unit in the game with fortified armor. It is true that they can't attack other units, but they will screw up an enemy base before they go down. I'm like 50% sure a lot of spells don't effect them either. You could probably finish the previous mission by just sending in a bunch of them to attackwithout backup. Both steam tanks and gyrocopters are mechanical units. This means that they don't heal health over time, but can be repaired by worker units(orcs, peons, acolytes, etc) lobster22221 fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Feb 27, 2018 |
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Feb 27, 2018 12:26
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Lord_Magmar posted:I think if the timelines Line-up the Gnomes are currently about to irradiate their capital and only city with fantasy nuclear waste. They already did, that was WoW's explanation for why the gnomes were in WC2 but not WC3. For those unaware of what's going on with them, in short the gnomes are dealing with a civil war right now that will lead to them somewhat literally nuking their entire civilization.
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Feb 27, 2018 14:32
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Cythereal posted:They already did, that was WoW's explanation for why the gnomes were in WC2 but not WC3. I believe there was a reference in the WC3 manual that the gnomes were facing an underground enemy and bowed out of the war. My guess for real world explanation is that Blizzard knew WoW was coming and probably figured they had enough Alliance races to deal with in the launch already and wanted the gnomes temporarily written out, planning to save them for a later expansion so they put a bit of throwaway in the manual to sort of explain their absence without having to make any real decisions as to what was going on and figured they could fill in the details later. Xenocides fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 28, 2018 01:26
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Xenocides posted:I believe there was a reference in the WC3 manual that the gnomes were facing an underground enemy and bowed out of the war. Nah, the real world explanation is that the gnomes were a very late addition to WoW's original development - the original plan called for them to be NPCs only due to being so few in number and not suited for adventure. Trolls were likewise a very late addition for the Horde, explaining why gnomes and trolls didn't have their own capitals, there wasn't enough time left before release to make proper gnome and troll cities.
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Feb 28, 2018 01:35
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Cythereal posted:For those unaware of what's going on with them, in short the gnomes are dealing with a civil war right now that will lead to them somewhat literally nuking their entire civilization. Cythereal posted:Nah, the real world explanation is that the gnomes were a very late addition to WoW's original development - the original plan called for them to be NPCs only due to being so few in number and not suited for adventure. Trolls were likewise a very late addition for the Horde, explaining why gnomes and trolls didn't have their own capitals, there wasn't enough time left before release to make proper gnome and troll cities. But wait, how are trolls a late addition? Haven't they been around since WC2?
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Feb 28, 2018 03:35
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painedforever posted:But wait, how are trolls a late addition? Haven't they been around since WC2? Yes, and in the WC3 expansion we'll see the Darkspear tribe join the Horde. However, they were a very late addition to being made playable in WoW. Like gnomes, the original justification was going to be that there simply weren't enough of them to warrant being a playable race. This is still the official justification for high elves not being playable for the Alliance, despite lots of high elf (not blood elf, specifically high elf) NPCs showing up in WoW as part of the Alliance. They were particularly prominent in Wrath of the Lich King. painedforever posted:That's pretty hardcore. I could almost respect the little stunties. Random Warcraft trivia: the gnomes are one of only two known nations in all of Warcraft that are a democracy. "King" is an elected-for-life position among the gnomes, and the destruction of Gnomeregan was the result of the guy defeated in the last election being a very sore loser. The other democracy in Warcraft is Dalaran, which is ruled by a council of archmages (and, in WoW, the dragon aspect of magic).
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Feb 28, 2018 03:44
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painedforever posted:But wait, how are trolls a late addition? Haven't they been around since WC2? To be fair, so were gnomes.
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Feb 28, 2018 04:00
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Man, I really did not click on Muradin enough back in the day. I had no idea he basically went all in on the SNL Celebrity Jeopardy sketch for his annoyed lines.
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Feb 28, 2018 04:17
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SirSamVimes posted:To be fair, so were gnomes. Oh yeah. Well, you never saw them, only their fantastic flying machines. And only late game. Meanwhile, trolls were right there, from the first couple of missions. So, when did they write in the backstory of the trolls and the gnomes? After WarCraft III and before WoW? I've basically just read through Azzur's WarCraft II LP, so I'm wondering when they decided that Trolls have been around basically for ever (please note that I'm being very careful not to spoil one of the races that's new to WarCraft III).
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Feb 28, 2018 11:20
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Cythereal posted:Nah, the real world explanation is that the gnomes were a very late addition to WoW's original development - the original plan called for them to be NPCs only due to being so few in number and not suited for adventure. Trolls were likewise a very late addition for the Horde, explaining why gnomes and trolls didn't have their own capitals, there wasn't enough time left before release to make proper gnome and troll cities. There is something neat about the lore in my mind that the Gnomes would of asked for help but they knew the Alliance had priorities that had to take precedent. The Alliance in turn was sadden by what happens to the Gnomes and wished they had said something to them.
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Mar 1, 2018 22:08
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Mooseontheloose posted:There is something neat about the lore in my mind that the Gnomes would of asked for help but they knew the Alliance had priorities that had to take precedent. The Alliance in turn was sadden by what happens to the Gnomes and wished they had said something to them. There's a scene in one of the books where one of the Horde's leaders taunts Mekkatorque - the king of the gnomes - about losing his nation and how it took the entire Alliance to save the gnomes. Mekkatorque's reply is that the reason why humans, dwarves, night elves, draenei, and worgen have fought and died to reclaim and restore a kingdom that isn't theirs is a thing the Horde will never understand: they're friends.
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Mar 1, 2018 22:24
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Cythereal posted:There's a scene in one of the books where one of the Horde's leaders taunts Mekkatorque - the king of the gnomes - about losing his nation and how it took the entire Alliance to save the gnomes. Mekkatorque's reply is that the reason why humans, dwarves, night elves, draenei, and worgen have fought and died to reclaim and restore a kingdom that isn't theirs is a thing the Horde will never understand: they're friends. I'm fairly sure my Blood Elf went and killed the bad guy in Gnomeregan, so screw you, MekkaJERK! 
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Mar 1, 2018 22:37
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