(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Well, enlighten me. I may come to understand you at long last. You seem too think it's somehow better to be ideologically consistent as a reactionary capitalist, rather than to fall short of revolutionary ideology in its attempt to transform the world.
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Feb 27, 2018 14:46
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You seem too think it's somehow better to be ideologically consistent as a reactionary capitalist, rather than to fall short of revolutionary ideology in its attempt to transform the world. Why can't you reason consistently as a revolutionary?
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Feb 27, 2018 14:50
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R. Guyovich posted:if they do you'll just claimed they fudged the numbers anyway so does it really matter It certainly does for poor people in China I also Ike how the implicit answer was a no
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Feb 27, 2018 14:54
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R. Guyovich posted:if they do you'll just claimed they fudged the numbers anyway so does it really matter If they fail, do you imagine the Chinese government is truthful enough to report that result?
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Feb 27, 2018 14:57
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Why can't you reason consistently as a revolutionary? Because reality makes hypocrites of everyone. Why do only leftists have to be consistent? All you're doing here is an even more annoying variation on the "you say you hate capitalism but you still buy cell phones" guy. So whatabout this: why do you care more about what a dead foreign country did decades ago, which your own country that you pay taxes to right now still does as we speak?
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Feb 27, 2018 15:01
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gradenko_2000 posted:How often are elections for General Secretary held? In theory, unlimited, but that you are suppose to/the party suppose to make you step down after 10 years is one of the political norms established from 1992 onwards, removing term limits on the presidency itself isn't significant per say because the presidency is ceremonial. But this is basically Xi telling everyone he does not intend on stepping down as general secretary/chairman of cmc/million other posts he holds after 10 years. That, combined with his purge of the party of potential political opponents, means he's effective broken the established leadership succession system inside the Communist party and thus concentrate ever greater amount of power in himself
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Feb 27, 2018 15:21
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R. Guyovich posted:for an example of a similar situation from the past, jiang zemin stayed on as cmc chairman for an extra year and it hamstrung his successor. this confusion meant hu jintao was fairly hands off with military matters, leading to corruption in the pla (see: caihou, xu) necessitating the military modernization campaign western media shakes in its boots about. OTOH: the fact that Jiang was forced out as cmc chairman shows that holding onto other official posts is actually pretty important and you can't just do the Putin-Medvedev thing in the Communist party
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Feb 27, 2018 15:23
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Because reality makes hypocrites of everyone. Again, that's handy to remember. I expect you'll never ever accuse anyone of hypocrisy. Pener Kropoopkin posted:All you're doing here is an even more annoying variation on the "you say you hate capitalism but you still buy cell phones" guy. lol Pener Kropoopkin posted:So whatabout this: why do you care more about what a dead foreign country did decades ago, which your own country that you pay taxes to right now still does as we speak? I don't, actually. You're the whataboutist, it was your thing.
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Feb 27, 2018 18:13
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The only way you'll remember anything is by keeping a running .txt (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 27, 2018 18:29
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The USSRs justification for preventing immigration is to prevent brain drain. Compare the situation with Africa, where there are critical shortages of people like doctors, because anyone with that education can simply travel to the west and make way more money. This transfer of people is also a transfer of wealth, from poor countries to rich countries. Clearly they wouldn't emigrate if the country was more developed. But if all the educated people leave, it will never develop to that point. Bit of a chicken and egg problem. So as you can see, the issue isn't as simple as all that. Clearly they have a right of free movement, but the disparities in global power mean that the exercise of that right only entrenches that disparity.
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Feb 27, 2018 21:57
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i dunno about all this other stuff but china just censored the phrase "I disagree" from weibo apparently lol
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Feb 27, 2018 21:59
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we should take the lead from china and ban all instances of the phrase whataboutism
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Feb 28, 2018 00:21
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america is basically a fascist empire responsible for many millions of deaths in the last two decades. it’s a violent police state with the highest incarceration rate in the world ruled by comically corrupt oligarchs with a thin veneer of manufactured consent. and other places are painted as something uniquely worse?
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Feb 28, 2018 00:27
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rudatron posted:The USSRs justification for preventing immigration is to prevent brain drain. It'd be theoretically possible to reverse it by developing those areas from external sources, but history has shown such externally sourced development has more strings attached than a puppet show or generally exist to exploit those areas that are developed. If it were possible to extend such development with no strings attached, then such brain drain may be reduced.
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Feb 28, 2018 00:36
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Yandat posted:america is basically a fascist empire responsible for many millions of deaths in the last two decades. it’s a violent police state with the highest incarceration rate in the world ruled by comically corrupt oligarchs with a thin veneer of manufactured consent. and other places are painted as something uniquely worse? yeah its good
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Feb 28, 2018 00:39
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rudatron posted:The USSRs justification for preventing immigration is to prevent brain drain. It's interesting that China (the topic of this thread) hasn't done that.
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Feb 28, 2018 00:48
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Xelkelvos posted:It'd be theoretically possible to reverse it by developing those areas from external sources, but history has shown such externally sourced development has more strings attached than a puppet show or generally exist to exploit those areas that are developed. If it were possible to extend such development with no strings attached, then such brain drain may be reduced. the string attached is always profit. the brain drain problem could be hypothetically resolved without having to be a communist Cuba, but international trade and finance agreements & institutions always require freedom of movement. the global North needs to be able to exploit the labor of the South, in all forms. Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:It's interesting that China (the topic of this thread) hasn't done that. China didn’t loosen its emigration rules until it was already developed to a point where they could open up without fear of brain drain. they didn’t spend all those years before the Dengist period sitting on their hands. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 00:51 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 28, 2018 00:48
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:China didn’t loosen its emigration rules until it was already developed to a point where they could open up without fear of brain drain. they didn’t spend all those years before the Dengist period sitting on their hands. Germany was thoroughly developed at the point where the USSR took part of it. Presumably their fear of brain drain was unfounded.
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Feb 28, 2018 00:59
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Germany was thoroughly developed at the point where the USSR took part of it. Presumably their fear of brain drain was unfounded. East and West Germany was complicated by issues of national demarcation and being the frontline of a hypothetical world war 3.
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Feb 28, 2018 01:00
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:East and West Germany was complicated by issues of national demarcation and being the frontline of a hypothetical world war 3. and the USSR systematically deindustrialized its occupation zone at the end of the war lol
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Feb 28, 2018 01:03
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:East and West Germany was complicated by issues of national demarcation and being the frontline of a hypothetical world war 3. So we've established: Hypocrisy is cool Arbitrary geopolitical considerations trump human rights These things are good to know about you, PK.
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Feb 28, 2018 01:09
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Germany was thoroughly developed at the point where the USSR took part of it. Presumably their fear of brain drain was unfounded. uh 
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Feb 28, 2018 01:14
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China still is super paranoid about citizens just leaving. And let's get real here: if the US had a realistic threat of brain drain, it would be doing exactly the same thing, no doubt justified under the pretext of national security. Its also hard to square a special respect for human rights against the migrant panic, currently underway in tbe eu and the us.
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Feb 28, 2018 01:25
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KaptainKrunk posted:and the USSR systematically deindustrialized its occupation zone at the end of the war lol
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Feb 28, 2018 01:27
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Keep on mind that a critical part of the war experience for the ussr, had been shopping entire factories out of the way of the nazis, into the Urals. Something that basically no other country has done. Had they not have done that, they'd have lost.
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Feb 28, 2018 01:32
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rudatron posted:Yeah, because the west was just over the border, and the war had destroyed is own internal industrial capacity. Had it? They weren't hurting for T-34s. I don't mind Germany being plundered at the end of the war, but it was plunder.
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Feb 28, 2018 01:33
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T-34s have to be replaced eventually, and the US had the bomb. Would you have taken any chances, if you were in that position?
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Feb 28, 2018 01:37
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Had it? They weren't hurting for T-34s. The Soviets managed an amazing crash building program for war materiel, largely in scratch factories set up on the fly in the Urals after the shock of the initial invasion. While they were undoubtedly successful, and demonstrate the impressive capacity of the USSR to Get poo poo Done when it needed doing, such an endeavor had eaten up just about all of their industrial capacity and couldn't be easily or quickly transitions back into peacetime production, and certainly couldn't quickly be moved back to the urban centers it had moved from in any sort of a hurry, to say nothing of the vast scope of destruction Soviet industry had endured despite this.
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Feb 28, 2018 01:39
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Had it? They weren't hurting for T-34s. The reason why Russia was able to build as many T-34s as they did was because they "deindustrialized" the parts of their country that was right in the path of the Nazi invasion - they packed up the factories in places like Kharkov and Stalino and Zaporozhia and Bryansk and moved them east to places like Nizhny Tagil and Sverdlovsk in the Ural Mountains and other points east. What people are trying to say is that the "deindustrialization" of East Germany was possibly done with the same mindset, given that East Germany would have been right on the doorstep of any war against the Soviet Union.
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Feb 28, 2018 02:01
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Typo posted:It certainly does for poor people in China the implicit premise of the question is that they won't. but recent progress suggests they're on track to meet the goal
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Feb 28, 2018 04:30
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R. Guyovich posted:the implicit premise of the question is that they won't. but recent progress suggests they're on track to meet the goal Goddamn, they're going to alleviate poverty in China? That owns.
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Feb 28, 2018 04:41
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:So we've established: I don't believe that freedom of movement is an inalienable human right, when it's primarily exploited as a means of making capital more fluid and to drain the human resources of a country. In the abstract then of course people should be free to go and live wherever they want in a socialist world, but we don't live in a socialist world. We live in a world filled with historical inequities that won't be overcome except by material development. This is also the first time I've ever seen anyone describe the historical legacy of World War 2 and the geopolitical realities of the Cold War as arbitrary.
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Feb 28, 2018 04:41
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:So we've established: what you're really missing here is that leftists believe in the emancipation of humans from wage labor and economic inequality - and that's better than whatever woolly ideology you subscribe to
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Feb 28, 2018 06:43
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Goddamn, they're going to alleviate poverty in China? That owns. the caveat is that it's extreme poverty ie people living on $1.90 or less a day, but the poverty rate has gone from 88 percent in 1981 to sub-5 percent in 2016. something like 25 million people remain, and because these are people in truly dire situations it will be the toughest nut to crack
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Feb 28, 2018 07:20
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Karl Barks posted:i dunno about all this other stuff but china just censored the phrase "I disagree" from weibo apparently lol Haha
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Feb 28, 2018 07:58
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Looked up the reason they censored it and it's less funny now
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Feb 28, 2018 07:59
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quote:The condom manufacturer Durex even found itself in the political censorship battle after a past advertisement was circulated with the phrase “doing it twice is not enough,” referencing the possibility of Xi continuing to rule after he serves his two presidential terms. hahahahahahaha
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Feb 28, 2018 08:07
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gradenko_2000 posted:hahahahahahaha nice
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Feb 28, 2018 10:11
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"I don't believe that freedom of movement is an inalienable human right, when it's primarily exploited as a means of making capital more fluid" you heard it here folks. the sanctity of the so-called 21st century state-socialist projects is more important than the international working class's right to what is by far the #1 source of social mobility
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Feb 28, 2018 18:53
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I'm sure the dozens of underdeveloped postcolonial states having their intellectual wealth disappear to the west are really proud of the enlightenment ideals they're preserving
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Feb 28, 2018 18:58
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