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Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
So I actually prepared for this exam and then the state MC is almost entirely estate and evidence questions with a sprinkling of crim pro.

MBE? Who knows? I did end up meeting a named partner from a Penn/NJ firm that was taking the bar to set up a shop in Ft. Lauderdale that asked me to hit him up for some potential work and have an interview for a state position in two weeks.

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CmdrSmirnoff
Oct 27, 2005
happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy
Is there anything I can do with this lovely degree that isn't arguing with people?

I have like 6 years experience arguing with people. In writing. In person. With a fancy robe on, if need be.

There must be something else.

Abugadu
Jul 12, 2004

1st Sgt. Matthews and the men have Procured for me a cummerbund from a traveling gypsy, who screeched Victory shall come at a Terrible price. i am Honored.
Government procurement review and contracts, agency law

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
The lawyer we have on retainer from a small firm doesn’t do much arguing, he briefs us then sits next to me nodding while I argue with people.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

Is there anything I can do with this lovely degree that isn't arguing with people?

I have like 6 years experience arguing with people. In writing. In person. With a fancy robe on, if need be.

There must be something else.
Does arguing with clients count? If not, being a government lawyer doing regs and policy will do this.
Your clients will argue though and you can't fire them and they can't fire you.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene

Toona the Cat posted:

This job starts off great. You feel like you're making a difference. You even do a few suppression motions that someone else argues, and they win. They thank you for your help. You then get certified to do hearings under supervision. You don't win all that often, but you get thanked once in awhile. Then, you realize, after the 100th or so motion for bond reduction for a guy accused of ejaculating in his 5 year old step-child's mouth that maybe this isn't the line of work you want to do.

Popped a molly I'm sweatin'

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

Is there anything I can do with this lovely degree that isn't arguing with people?

I have like 6 years experience arguing with people. In writing. In person. With a fancy robe on, if need be.

There must be something else.

What do you mean by "argue?" Try for Medicaid Fraud prosecution. Every state has one. It's a sweet gig. They argue but only rarely and mostly about money and they go home at four thirty every day and have time for potlucks and team building parties. Or some other obscure agency government work. I know the guy that just does dmv appeals. Talk about low stress.

We also have several attorneys on staff at the courthouse. There are some career clerkship type people, who work with the appellate judges on routine matters (think the endless motions for extensions). Then there is the court forms attorney, who just invents paperwork for other people to fill out. She's super nice and runs marathons and has a good dog, so I assume her life is low stress.

Or learn how to cook and change diapers, marry a doctor, and quit this whole thing to be a kept man.

echopapa
Jun 2, 2005

El Presidente smiles upon this thread.

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

Is there anything I can do with this lovely degree that isn't arguing with people?

I have like 6 years experience arguing with people. In writing. In person. With a fancy robe on, if need be.

There must be something else.

Join a codification commission or become a judicial reporter. When you have an argument, it will be over punctuation.

CmdrSmirnoff
Oct 27, 2005
happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy

echopapa posted:

Join a codification commission or become a judicial reporter. When you have an argument, it will be over punctuation.

Being a reporter on the crime beat would be a sweet gig if it wasn't a dead industry (but I suspect you meant the other kind of reporter, which is too much of a downgrade)

quote:

obscure agency government work

Oh yeah that's the stuff. There's an open posting here to be an investigator for the local police complaints body. What a freak show that must be.

quote:

career clerkship type people,

Too much of a pay cut, I have a wife that needs tending to now and I don't wanna know what her connected Mexican parents will do when they find out their baby's keeper isn't a lawyer anymore

edit: the price of a basic starter house here in Toronto on the low end is like $700k so I can't just go pet dogs for a living

CmdrSmirnoff fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Mar 1, 2018

Flutieflakes017
Feb 16, 2012

only if you've been in the deepest valley can you ever know how magnificent it is to be on the highest mountain

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

Is there anything I can do with this lovely degree that isn't arguing with people?

I have like 6 years experience arguing with people. In writing. In person. With a fancy robe on, if need be.

There must be something else.

Just LOL if you don’t enjoy arguing with people, small children, grocery store cashiers, your smart TV, animals, ice makers, and the coffee maker in your office 24/7, 365 and wake up excited and energized every morning at the prospect of more arguing.

...

Not

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
I do tons of civil litigation, and honestly, outside of 'arguing' a motion or issue at trial, I don't really argue with opposing counsel very much. I mean, you're not gonna convince them they're wrong, and even if you do it's just going to alert them to what you plan to use later, so there's no point. It's just not productive.

You should be talking to them to find common ground on an issue or something like scheduling or settlement.

That's why it's annoying to deal with Dallas lawyers - it's like they have to justify their exorbitant fees by being unreasonably combative about everything.

Jean-Paul Shartre
Jan 16, 2015

this sentence no verb


blarzgh posted:

That's why it's annoying to deal with Dallas lawyers - it's like they have to justify their exorbitant fees by being unreasonably combative about everything.

It's not a Dallas thing. I've run into M&A lawyers up in NYC that are the same, and it's miserable. Two firms in particular stand out as being made of these sorts of assholes.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
https://deadspin.com/robert-krafts-special-pal-had-a-baby-1823423039

Two thoughts...

First, how much do we think the trust fund is? $10M? $50M? Kraft is worth like $5 billion so...

Second, whatever it is I would think it's associated with an NDA as well as an agreement or stipulation never to assert paternity, demand child support, or claim any other rights. I don't do family law but I do know that such an agreement would probably be void in Louisiana since we have forced heirship laws that mandate a portion of the father's estate go to the child. Don't know about Massachusetts or NY or whatever. Does anyone know whether an agreement like that would hold up?

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

JohnCompany posted:

It's not a Dallas thing. I've run into M&A lawyers up in NYC that are the same, and it's miserable. Two firms in particular stand out as being made of these sorts of assholes.

Oh sure, they're everywhere. Here in Texas (and North Texas in particular) "Dallas Lawyer" carries with it a connotation that one could earn even if they're not from Dallas, per se.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

innocent man finally released from prison

Paging Actus Rhesus.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

quote:

Swinton, who was 51 years old and had no significant criminal record, always maintained his innocence and endured a lengthy trial in early 2001. The only physical evidence linking Swinton to the crime was the testimony of the victim’s sister and Dr. Karazulas’s bite mark evidence, which was presented over the course of five days of trial testimony, far more than any other witness. The state put on several witnesses who gave conflicting testimony about Swinton’s presence in the bar on the night of the murder. Three informants with substance abuse problems or prior felony convictions claimed that Swinton made statements relating to the victim in the months after her death nearly a decade earlier. The state also introduced portions of a tape recording from a freelance writer who interviewed Swinton for an article sensationally titled, “Killer at Large.” While the article implied that Swinton made self-incriminating statements, the unedited tape of the interview revealed that Swinton consistently professed his innocence. The state also presented a jailhouse informant used in at least one other case who claimed that Swinton confessed to the crime. However, in a secretly recorded conversation between the informant and Swinton, there were no incriminating statements. Rather, Swinton maintained his innocence and asked, “Why are you picking on me?” Swinton was convicted and sentenced to 60 years.

Thank goodness for those selfless prosecutors, willing to literally sell their souls for a conviction :911:

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
I hope he sues and gets millions, but he'll probably get hosed.

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

Imagine ending up in prison because someone named "Dr. Gus Karazulas" said your teeth sort of match a wound and the police found a bra in or near your apartment complex which they "theorized belonged to the victim." oh and you're black

Abugadu
Jul 12, 2004

1st Sgt. Matthews and the men have Procured for me a cummerbund from a traveling gypsy, who screeched Victory shall come at a Terrible price. i am Honored.

Phil Moscowitz posted:

https://deadspin.com/robert-krafts-special-pal-had-a-baby-1823423039

Two thoughts...

First, how much do we think the trust fund is? $10M? $50M? Kraft is worth like $5 billion so...

Second, whatever it is I would think it's associated with an NDA as well as an agreement or stipulation never to assert paternity, demand child support, or claim any other rights. I don't do family law but I do know that such an agreement would probably be void in Louisiana since we have forced heirship laws that mandate a portion of the father's estate go to the child. Don't know about Massachusetts or NY or whatever. Does anyone know whether an agreement like that would hold up?

Re: child support, courts in p much every state hold that the right to child support belongs to the child, and the mother/father cannot waive it or bargain it away - this usually voids any agreement the parents make that is either a 'pay no more child support' or 'here's a pittance of a lump sum that will count for now until the kid turns 18'.

echopapa
Jun 2, 2005

El Presidente smiles upon this thread.
Owyhee County, Idaho, is now looking for a deputy prosecutor.

I don’t know why you would need a deputy prosecutor in a county that has eleven thousand people spread out over the size of New Jersey, but there you have it.

Flutieflakes017
Feb 16, 2012

only if you've been in the deepest valley can you ever know how magnificent it is to be on the highest mountain

Vox Nihili posted:

Imagine ending up in prison because someone named "Dr. Gus Karazulas" said your teeth sort of match a wound and the police found a bra in or near your apartment complex which they "theorized belonged to the victim." oh and you're black

https://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/justice/exonerated-prisoner-update-michael-morton/index.html

quote:

The prosecutor, speaking to the jury in emotional terms with tears streaming down his face, laid out a graphic, depraved sexual scenario, accusing Morton of bludgeoning his wife for refusing to have sex on his birthday.

Evidence included the fact he owned pornography. Good times in Williamson County.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

That's my county, baby!

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

Flutieflakes017 posted:

https://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/justice/exonerated-prisoner-update-michael-morton/index.html


Evidence included the fact he owned pornography. Good times in Williamson County.

The most shocking part of this case is that the prosecutor ultimately faced repurcussions, including the eventual loss of his license.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Imagine working yourself up to blubbering in front of twelve strangers to sell some hosed up sexual fantasy you cooked up because you wanted to send an innocent person to prison/the death chamber

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Like if Jake Brigance had every ounce of humanity stripped from him with sandpaper then got dunked in a vat of Scalia’s urine

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Phil Moscowitz posted:

Imagine working yourself up to blubbering in front of twelve strangers to sell some hosed up sexual fantasy you cooked up because you wanted to send an innocent person to prison/the death chamber

ah yes, classic zealous advocacy

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

I do that in court, but to keep corporations from having money.

To be clear: I create elaborate sexual fantasies about what two corporate entities did to each other.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.
.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Jul 13, 2021

Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

I do that in court, but to keep corporations from having money.

To be clear: I create elaborate sexual fantasies about what two corporate entities did to each other.

Did they create joinder?

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Something something loving the taxpayer.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Flutieflakes017 posted:

https://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/justice/exonerated-prisoner-update-michael-morton/index.html


Evidence included the fact he owned pornography. Good times in Williamson County.

Then there's this guy who fought the DNA test for years:
https://www.texastribune.org/library/multimedia/john-bradley-texas-prosecutor-asserts-change-of-heart/

Bradley ended up in Palau, BTW.

If you fight DNA tests as a DA, you're a loving rear end in a top hat.

Roger_Mudd
Jul 18, 2003

Buglord

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

To be clear: I create elaborate sexual fantasies about what two corporate entities did to each other.

Pounded in the butt by an S Corp.

Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


Piercing the corporate veil.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

The greatest sex story in this thread is from Phil about warwasza.

Flutieflakes017
Feb 16, 2012

only if you've been in the deepest valley can you ever know how magnificent it is to be on the highest mountain

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

I do that in court, but to keep corporations from having money.

To be clear: I create elaborate sexual fantasies about what two corporate entities did to each other.

You need court to sexually fantasize about corporate entities? Just say “disregarded single member LLC” to me and I’m off to the races.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.
.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Jul 13, 2021

Toona the Cat
Jun 9, 2004

The Greatest

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

The greatest sex story in this thread is from Phil about warwasza.

I get a chuckle thinking about it every time I see the word catamite.

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004

Discendo Vox posted:

Two benefit corporations, one trust.

:golfclap:

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

The greatest sex story in this thread is from Phil about warwasza.

LINK

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Toona the Cat
Jun 9, 2004

The Greatest

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3301274&perpage=40&pagenumber=897

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