|
Given that the snakes of Silent majority are Conjured, it's possible that the doll is also conjured which is why Lobbery could see it. But this could also be the steal chain baptism case like you mentioned.
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2018 23:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 15:47 |
|
|
That person could see it because they were "possessed" by it. That's why I think the user is the maid with her.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2018 23:40
|
|
|
i think the possession works as a relay, so the user doesn't need to be nearby and/or can't be detected using it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2018 23:43
|
|
|
Isn't it just so it can draw attention and give an opportunity for the snakes to kill someone? And only letting 1 person see it helps create confusion.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 00:08
|
|
|
RatHat posted:Isn't it just so it can draw attention and give an opportunity for the snakes to kill someone? And only letting 1 person see it helps create confusion. it only draws attention if the possessed person notices and says something. that is far from guaranteed, which doesn't seem ideal since the user dies if he uses it without killing anyone.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 00:49
|
|
|
Question: are nen beasts conjured or emitted?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 01:26
|
|
|
dazoner posted:Question: are nen beasts conjured or emitted? It can be either. The princes' beasts are emitted, Goreinu's gorillas are emitted, but Abengane's curse-eating centipede-thing was conjured.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 02:28
|
|
|
dazoner posted:Question: are nen beasts conjured or emitted? They can be both if you just mean across the whole series. Abengane summoned a conjured creature for his exorcism. Razor and Goreineu emit their nen beasts. Indoor fish is supposedly a conjured ability. For the Guardian beasts I would say that they are emissions based since some don't seem to take up space in a way that would intrude on other objects given their size. Also emissions would make sense since other people who can't use nen can't see them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 02:29
|
|
|
dazoner posted:Question: are nen beasts conjured or emitted? As others said could be both, i'd say emission as they feed directly off of the princes aura and non nen users can't see them, whereas conjured creatures or objects can be seen by anyone.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 03:12
|
|
|
Well, conjured creatures usually can be seen by anyone; In can hide conjured items (like Kurapika did with his chains when fighting Uvogin), so it may be able to do the same to creatures. Haven't seen it yet as far as I know, though. The beasts are probably emissions for other reasons anyway, like the Nen parasitism. Tangent, the presumption that Silent Majority is Manipulation in this chapter, despite the snakes being established as conjured creatures, means that the puppet could be emitted too, since Emission is closer to Manipulation than Conjuration is. But it also bears the most resemblance to Stealth Dolphin of anything we've seen, which is (probably) a conjured thing, so. Yeah. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Mar 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 03:26
|
|
|
Honestly I'm just trying to think through who controls Silent Majority. Bill is way too obvious of a suspect, but who else could it be? He's the only one other than Kurapika who has been there from the moment the murders started.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 04:14
|
|
|
It's explicitly not Yurikov or Lovely; the ability's user thought of them as separate people, along with the latter being the carrier. Same thing ruled out Muhan even before his death, but, you know, he's dead now. Bhavimaina's stated to be a counter-type, and he was assigned to them after Vincent's death (which came after the first assassinations) anyway, so it's almost certainly not him either. We can also probably rule out Harkenburg's men; unless one of the two is an amazing actor who both figured out how his prince's Nen beast works on his own and faked ignorance perfectly, even "faking" uncontrolled Nen alongside his partner as the latter released it for real, both of them can't be it. We do know that there's a Nen user hiding themselves among the group, and doing so so well that only Yurikov could pick them out, but we don't know who it is because his internal monologue was rather spoiler-free. That still leaves a lot of people it could be, though. I feel safe assuming it's not Danjin, the other guy from Tserriednich's group. Given that Tserriednich asked all his staff about Nen and is now learning it, if Danjin lied to him he's... Well, I suppose if he's so good at hiding his ability to use Nen that only Yurikov could figure it out, he's probably not in danger of being discovered when Tserriednich finishes learning, but that'd still be a dangerous game for him to play. Especially with that crazy Nen beast around. As before, I am thinking that it's not Bill either. Silent Majority is either Conjuration or Manipulation, and he was good enough at Enhancement to block bullets without much damage in an arc where bullets that could hurt even Nen users have been brought up in one of Kurapika's internal monologues. It's not hard evidence against him being the culprit, but it's worth noting at least. (Also, given how so many people are coming to this conclusion, it feels too obvious.) ...Actually, that monologue was after Sakata, one of the men Zhang Lei "gave" to Kurapika (who are not the one's there actually learning Nen, Zhang Lei sent a third guy for that, which is interesting) shot up Baringen and Kurapika noticed the bullets as such that would be hard to stop with Nen. Could he or another of the third prince's men be the Nen user? Him having a gun that's capable of punching through Gyo-boosted Enhancement may not be coincidence. It'd also be kind of amusing/ironic that one of the men of the prince who reacted to hearing about the first assassinations with, "Really? Someone went after the baby first?" unknowingly(?) had the man responsible in his employ. But, again, not at all hard evidence; could just be a coincidence (and/or a narrative reason for Kurapika to think about the aforementioned gun stuff to set it up for later), and I don't know what his motive would be. But it's something that occurred to me while pointing out the above regarding Bill. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Mar 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 06:15
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:As before, I am thinking that it's not Bill either. Silent Majority is either Conjuration or Manipulation, and he was good enough at Enhancement to block bullets without much damage in an arc where bullets that could hurt even Nen users have been brought up in one of Kurapika's internal monologues. It's not hard evidence against him being the culprit, but it's worth noting at least. (Also, given how so many people are coming to this conclusion, it feels too obvious.) On the other hand, Benjamin has a Specialist Hatsu and has also blocked bullets. But Benjamin obviously works out a lot more than Bill does.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 06:25
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:On the other hand, Benjamin has a Specialist Hatsu and has also blocked bullets. But Benjamin obviously works out a lot more than Bill does. Benjamin is loving ridiculous and should not be used as a measure of anything. (Also, not every bullet is unblockable with Nen. There being ones that could punch through it is actually new info; ordinary guns haven't been particularly impressive in HxH previously, and Cammy was clearly relying on Cat Name more than her bullets for killing Benjamin and co.) Though yeah, his strength is weird given his obviously Specialization ability. I mean, his strength isn't really out of line with HxH (the main four opened the Zoldyck gates without even having Nen, and those had to have been heavier than the weights he was lifting in that one chapter), but he's clearly outperforming fellow Nen users even. But, thinking back, during the original category explanation it was mentioned that Specialists were put where they are due to Manipulators and Conjurers manifesting Specialist abilities more often than other Nen types, but that Nen users of the other types could develop them too. So, he could be an Enhancer with a Specialist ability, or a Specialist who used to be an Enhancer, or whatever. It'd be the first time we've seen something like that, but it actually doesn't go against anything we already know.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 06:38
|
|
|
Meant to post this like a week ago but I don't think Harkenburg's desire to end the succession war is gonna work out. As far as he's aware (as far as we're aware) it's "Merely" a tradition - a violent, bloody tradition - but we know it's more than that. It's a ritual. It's nen. What's more, it's something that's been going on since the founding of the Kakin Empire. The consequences of interrupting such a ritual, the backlash, are likely formidable. We already know the conditions are. Something that's bugged me about this succession war from the very beginning was the timing of it. At least three of the king's heirs are still children (I'm not sure about Kacho and Fugetsu), the youngest being a literal infant. What's the point of even involving the younger princes in a war between their elder siblings, a number of whom have already cultivated a fair amount of political clout, support, resources, and connections. Even with nen beasts acting as an equalizer, it's a ridiculously uphill battle. It took me until this batch of chapters, seeing the whole setup with the coffins down below, to realize the ritual probably extends beyond the parasite egg jar ceremony, and encompasses the whole of the succession war itself. Perhaps even the whole of the Kakin royal family. It wasn't uncommon, historically speaking, for kings to take multiple wives for the purpose of sealing political treaties with foreign powers, but Oito was a common girl from an impoverished family living in Kakin. There are only two reasons I can think of for the king to take notice of her and marry her: either he truly loves her (which I kinda doubt, personally), or he needed another womb to produce another heir to hit a designated target number. Wobble's only a year old, but the amount of preparation required to get something like this off the ground would surely precede her birth. The king doesn't expect Wobble or any of the younger princes to win, he expects them to die and become sacrifices for the sake of Kakin's future. They can't compete, but they can still fulfill the parameters of the ritual. This would also explain why the king doesn't care about Harkenburg's resignation: he may be out of the running for the crown, but he can't escape his fate as a sacrifice (which is likely tied up in his blood and can't be renounced). The presence of 14 coffins makes me think the king will meet with the last surviving prince, explain the ritual to them, then kill himself or allow himself to be killed. The prince will then inherit the throne, and some years later will repeat the whole ceremony. The problem this poses for Harkenburg, or anyone else who wants to call this whole thing off, is that the purpose of this ritual is to strengthen the county itself through the king's bloodline. As we've already discussed, the conditions for enacting such a thing are already cruel and specific, but the consequences for failing to follow through would likely be disastrous as well - possibly to the entire country. Harkenburg's success might actually jeopardize the entire nation and everyone living in it. Alternatively, he might take power only to find out that not only can he not institute any of the reforms he wants, but that he himself will have to oversee his own children murdering each other in X years time. It's possible I'm wrong or misreading something, but if I'm not, Harkenburg's dream seems pretty hopeless. EDIT: Now that I think about it, this would also explain why all the king's children are called princes regardless of their gender; there's probably something specific in the wording of the original ritual from long ago when they might had a full 14 male heirs. They said it's to avoid favoritism, but I think that's just the cover story. Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Mar 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 06:40
|
|
|
i suspect it isn't anyone in kurapika's seminar and never was, so kurapika is gonna pointlessly go around in circles searching for this killer nearby. it'd be in keeping with the 'kurapika must suffer and fail' theme of this arc.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 06:40
|
|
|
Bad Seafood posted:Meant to post this like a week ago but I don't think Harkenburg's desire to end the succession war is gonna work out. Oh yeah no, Harkenburg's a great dude and all but he's hosed. Or, at least, the war isn't stopping until all the princes above Tubeppa (I like Zhang Lei and his Nen beast is my favorite but I don't trust him, so Tubeppa's probably the highest one I'd actually count on keeping the "amnesty for lower princes" deal) and maybe some of the lower ones and/or some queens are dead/captured, even if you set aside the ritual aspects of the war and stuff, just due to the utter fuckers involved in it. Getting into the potential Nen aspects of it... loving it up being catastrophic does feel a lot more likely that Kurapika's hypothesis that withdrawal would call off the ceremony entirely. Or, heck, both could be true; there might be a way to withdraw and end the war (or at least the Nen side of it), but it has a backlash like you're speculating as a result. It sucks too, because, well, just focusing on Harkenburg himself here and not all the other hosed up stuff involved, the guy's just so genuinely good and idealistic, at least as far as we've seen, and yet it seems like there's no way for him to avoid tragedy, possibly even death. (Tangent, if actual death is required, Cammy presents a problem since, well, she seems difficult to kill and have stay dead, at the least. We'll have to see I suppose.) gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i suspect it isn't anyone in kurapika's seminar and never was, so kurapika is gonna pointlessly go around in circles searching for this killer nearby. it'd be in keeping with the 'kurapika must suffer and fail' theme of this arc. That is entirely possible. It'd also mean that the person Yurikov spotted hiding their Nen isn't the assassin (or rather, isn't this assassin; Yurikov's pegged them as a skilled killer and such), which would be yet another wrinkle in this immensely complicated arc. So, yeah, entirely possible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 06:58
|
|
|
i doubt a decent, conflicted person could really delve into the cammy problem and figure out a way around it to kill her.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 07:03
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 07:13
|
|
|
Yep, I've brought that moment up at least twice; after Cat Name was revealed, I remembered that almost immediately because it suddenly made perfect sense in retrospect. At the time it just seemed like her being an insane monster, but it was actually her trying to create a contest she (seemingly) cannot possibly lose. (She's still an insane monster, of course; the way she thinks is utterly vile and unhinged, and she tried to order her mother to kill Harkenburg, who is one of her full brothers, her mother's youngest son, among other things. But there's more to her than just being a spoiled lunatic.) Though, the king's response of deciding what victory means being part of victory is odd; it is one of the things that's making me question the otherwise seemingly most-likely possibility, that the succession war has to end with all but one prince dead. It seems odd for him to emphasize this so much if death is a requirement, unless he thinks that anyone who'd settle for less on their own has no right to rule or whatever. He also was rather impressed by Harkenburg's Nen beast when Harkenburg tried to drop out and seemingly unconcerned with the prince's own statement; if thirteen have to die, a powerful prince sitting out complicates things as they could defend themselves from the others and delay the war indefinitely. Which, while arguably proof that the ones failing to kill him don't deserve to be king either, still seems like a thing that should concern him, not mildly amuse him. Which, again, isn't hard proof, but his behavior is rather odd. (The other big thing making me wonder there is Cammy herself; something about a character like her being present in this makes death being mandatory feel odd, story-wise, to me. It's not at all objective and I can think of arguments against it myself that should have dissuaded it somewhat, but I can't shake the feeling.) Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Mar 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 07:35
|
|
|
really hard to follow all of this talk without pictures of people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 09:55
|
|
|
Lpzie posted:really hard to follow all of this talk without pictures of people. I was actually thinking about trying to put together a (much more succinct per character than my usual posts here; no one would read a paragraph per person) list of who all is involved with this now earlier, but there are so many people that, while I wouldn't mind writing it, getting all the pictures needed would be a huge pain.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 10:36
|
|
|
Bad Seafood posted:It took me until this batch of chapters, seeing the whole setup with the coffins down below, to realize the ritual probably extends beyond the parasite egg jar ceremony, and encompasses the whole of the succession war itself. Perhaps even the whole of the Kakin royal family. It wasn't uncommon, historically speaking, for kings to take multiple wives for the purpose of sealing political treaties with foreign powers, but Oito was a common girl from an impoverished family living in Kakin. There are only two reasons I can think of for the king to take notice of her and marry her: either he truly loves her (which I kinda doubt, personally), or he needed another womb to produce another heir to hit a designated target number. Wobble's only a year old, but the amount of preparation required to get something like this off the ground would surely precede her birth. The king doesn't expect Wobble or any of the younger princes to win, he expects them to die and become sacrifices for the sake of Kakin's future. They can't compete, but they can still fulfill the parameters of the ritual. This would also explain why the king doesn't care about Harkenburg's resignation: he may be out of the running for the crown, but he can't escape his fate as a sacrifice (which is likely tied up in his blood and can't be renounced). I think the king does actually expect the children to have a chance, and based on his own nen beast frankly I wouldn't be surprised if the current king was a baby when he won. The nen beasts are an equalizer too, of course, but as we've seen this is also a game of queens and bodyguards. Also, I got the impression that he was intentionally marrying people from as diverse backgrounds as possible in order to potentially bring new blood into the family. We've seen that even the older Princes come from a wide variety of ethnicities and races (you can tell just from the names, really). If you think of the ritual as "survival of the fittest" and therefore "evolution" then its only natural to include as much genetic diversity into the battle as possible. He's trying to make the ultimate bloodline.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 11:01
|
|
|
Tbh I always just figured the king had a bunch of different wives because he loved to gently caress I think his nen beast being Pussymouth McTitspider supports my theory.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 11:32
|
|
|
i think it's a given that he loves to gently caress, but i don't think it is a coincidence that the succession battle started shortly after his 14th child was born. the ritual likely required a specific number of participants.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 11:46
|
|
|
One of the conditions has to do with his Horny Level
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 12:07
|
|
|
Throw cammy in a well or the ocean. Job done
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 14:44
|
|
|
That line has always bothered me because it still doesn't parse correctly "Cammy asks that you'd Not accept dropouts that are not Biological death" is a double negative so it reads like she's asking for him to accept deaths that are biological deaths. Maybe this is a translation error but it seems like the second 'not' doesn't need to be there since she's specifically asking for the ceasing of biological functions not to be an automatic dropout since she can come back afterwards. And regarding your previous post about the timing of these events. We only have it on the word of Benjamin and Tse that they were both pushing their father to allow this battle royale. But even then, looking at the room inside the Ship and how long Beyond and HoiHoi would have been planning this voyage, it can be assumed that the King accepted their proposal because he's already planned to use the boat ride for that same purpose.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 15:42
|
|
|
Brought To You By posted:That line has always bothered me because it still doesn't parse correctly "Cammy asks that you'd Not accept dropouts that are not Biological death" is a double negative so it reads like she's asking for him to accept deaths that are biological deaths. Maybe this is a translation error but it seems like the second 'not' doesn't need to be there since she's specifically asking for the ceasing of biological functions not to be an automatic dropout since she can come back afterwards.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 16:38
|
|
|
Brought To You By posted:That line has always bothered me because it still doesn't parse correctly "Cammy asks that you'd Not accept dropouts that are not Biological death" is a double negative so it reads like she's asking for him to accept deaths that are biological deaths. Maybe this is a translation error but it seems like the second 'not' doesn't need to be there since she's specifically asking for the ceasing of biological functions not to be an automatic dropout since she can come back afterwards. She's asking for being dead to be the only way to be eliminated.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 16:44
|
|
|
I feel bad about calling Musse the wonky eye guy before now
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
Brought To You By posted:That line has always bothered me because it still doesn't parse correctly "Cammy asks that you'd Not accept dropouts that are not Biological death" is a double negative so it reads like she's asking for him to accept deaths that are biological deaths. Maybe this is a translation error but it seems like the second 'not' doesn't need to be there since she's specifically asking for the ceasing of biological functions not to be an automatic dropout since she can come back afterwards. It's right. She wants final biological death to be the only factor in losing. As she (supposedly) can't die, that would mean that she can't lose. She does not want him to accept anything that isn't death, because then her victory isn't guaranteed. If you removed either "not", she'd either be asking him to not accept dropouts that are death, or to accept dropouts that are not death, neither of which make sense.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 19:44
|
|
|
Is that page from the official translation or Mangastream? Because if it’s the latter then it’s entirely possible that it’s not the correct translation. I have a feeling that MS got tripped up by Japanese grammar’s multiple negatives.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 20:07
|
|
|
The other translation worded it differently. But Camilla was still asking Nasubi to declare that death is the only way to drop out. Here is the MS translation 
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Mar 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 20:13
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:The other translation worded it differently. But Camilla was still asking Nasubi to declare that death is the only way to drop out. On a tangent, earlier in the MS translations they had Cammy referring to herself in the third-person, like in the version of that page that Bad Seafood linked. They seem to have dropped that now, though. They also have gotten much better translations out lately it seems like, where before they were so bad they referred to Momoze as male in the chapter where she was assassinated. Did they get new translators or something, or did the ones they have just get much better?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 21:29
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:On a tangent, earlier in the MS translations they had Cammy referring to herself in the third-person, like in the version of that page that Bad Seafood linked. They seem to have dropped that now, though. They also have gotten much better translations out lately it seems like, where before they were so bad they referred to Momoze as male in the chapter where she was assassinated. Did they get new translators or something, or did the ones they have just get much better? There is nothing particularly weird about a Japanese girl referring to herself in the third-person, it's just one of those cutesy things that a few (annoying) people do. She's too old to do that but I guess the contrast between her using that kind of language and her personality is what Togashi is going for. It just doesn't translate well but that "Father, your little Cammy" is actually appropriately childish-sounding.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 21:52
|
|
|
trucutru posted:There is nothing particularly weird about a Japanese girl referring to herself in the third-person, it's just one of those cutesy things that a few (annoying) people do. She's too old to do that but I guess the contrast between her using that kind of language and her personality is what Togashi is going for. Oh, no, that wasn't necessarily meant to be an example of it being worse, just one of things changing in a way that made it seem like they had different translators now, going from her talking in that "cutesy" way to having her speak more formally and using the first-person for herself. Another example would be how they've also jumped around a few times on which names they're using for people. I edited that post partway through and didn't change the first half, though, so I probably made that unclear; several things, including the jump in translation quality but also ones that are more neutral, make it seem like they have a new team on HxH. It does really affect how Cammy comes across, though. She's clearly unhinged and evil both ways, but as you say, when she speaks in the third-person she came across as much more immature (and also rather weird, given that even her thoughts were in the third-person), whereas otherwise while she's still evil, overconfident, impulsive, and all that, she seems less like an outright womanchild. Edit: Topic of things that have been inconsistent, has there been an official confirmation of Tubeppa/Tsubeppa's gender, or a direct reference to them as someone's brother or sister, or anything like that? I've seen it go both ways in multiple places and some disagreements; someone is citing chapter 350 as saying Harkenburg (which I still prefer to "Halkenburg") doesn't get along with his mother or two sisters, and since Luzurus is presumably a man that'd be confirmation, for example, but I don't know what the original Japanese says, so I figured I'd ask here since some people would know better. Edit again: Going back to check that, the MS translation at least says "two sisters", but also, this page reminded me of the recent discussion regarding being able to drop out or not and the king's talk of deciding what victory means to you being part of victory and such. Not promising for those who want to bail or end the war. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Mar 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 22:16
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:Oh, no, that wasn't necessarily meant to be an example of it being worse, just one of things changing in a way that made it seem like they had different translators now, going from her talking in that "cutesy" way to having her speak more formally and using the first-person for herself. Another example would be how they've also jumped around a few times on which names they're using for people. I edited that post partway through and didn't change the first half, though, so I probably made that unclear; several things, including the jump in translation quality but also ones that are more neutral, make it seem like they have a new team on HxH. I'm a bit unclear about some of the Princes' genders myself. I think you're meant to be a bit uncertain about some of them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2018 23:08
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:I'm a bit unclear about some of the Princes' genders myself. I think you're meant to be a bit uncertain about some of them. Oh yeah, it seems deliberate, to be sure. But there's been some people on both sides of the Tubeppa thing claiming their view was proven correct, which combined with some things making me think Tubeppa may be important before too long made me curious there, so I felt like asking.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2018 00:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 15:47 |
|
|
Heck wasn't Kurapika of ambiguous gender for a long time?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2018 00:25
|
|