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BOOTY-ADE posted:
It's a stupid question. Even assholes have rights. Even *assholes who would deny the rights of others* have rights. You get to criticize them. You don't get to break the law in order to suppress them. *Murderers* are entitled to the exact same protections of law as the rest of us. "This person literally murdered people, that's whose right to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures you're sticking up for. That's whose right to be immune from cruel and unusual punishment you're sticking up for." Well, yes, yes it is. That's the whole loving *point*. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBiLT3LASk Regalingualius posted:Yeah, subpoenas aren't nicely asking "will you please come and testify"; they're firmly telling you to come in. It depends on the subpoena power in question. This isn't a subpoena telling him to show up and answer questions, this is essentially a grand jury subpoena demanding he provide documents, so yeah, he could wind up being held in contempt of court if he refuses, and contempt of court can involve jail. But by contrast, you can tell a Congressional subpoena to go get hosed, in which case you can be held in Contempt of Congress. Ask former Attorney General Eric Holder or IRS Director Lois Lerner what a big deal being held in contempt of Congress is (Hint: It's not).
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Mar 6, 2018 03:11
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if you think this dude isn't going to go pseudo-politician and tap dance around your question like Fred Astaire on meth
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Phanatic posted:It's a stupid question. Even assholes have rights. Even *assholes who would deny the rights of others* have rights. You get to criticize them. You don't get to break the law in order to suppress them. *Murderers* are entitled to the exact same protections of law as the rest of us. "This person literally murdered people, that's whose right to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures you're sticking up for. That's whose right to be immune from cruel and unusual punishment you're sticking up for." Please enlighten us; how do you stop a cadre of people who use the system to strip others of rights, and use the system to protect themselves? Because the entire modus operandi of Nazis and fascists is to take over the system and wield it as a weapon.
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Mar 6, 2018 03:18
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"I don't agree with what you say, sir, but I'll defend your right to say it!" "Thanks, get in the train car." "Yes, sir, into the train car I go, I wouldn't want you to feel oppressed!"
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Mar 6, 2018 03:20
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I met Greg Conte at the pre-K school/program/whatever our parents put us in, and as these things tend to go whoever the kids make friends with the parents make friends with. So we were perpetually in each others orbits courtesy of the Mom network. Greg is out there cosplaying success. Look at any of the interviews he's done and he'll put on these airs, with a glass of what is supposed to be good scotch, with a cigar that's carefully had the band removed so you can't see the brand, goes by the same visual playbook that his boy Spencer does always in the cheapest, but nicest, business casual stuff he can find. Well Greg's first run in with his master race destiny was getting into Georgetown University. He was good at learning languages, but not necessarily using them. It's like the difference between a mathematician and a mathemagician. He knew how to get test credit for the language. Still impressive though. So he's in the ROTC there, basically shown the fast track to an Officer's commission to be an interpreter or something aaaaaand he loses his goddamn mind. Mr. Master Race never goes to class, gets himself committed, and at the end of semester #1 is dropped at his parents feet never to return. Cool. Good step 1 Greg. Now his parents have to burn his college money on "rehabilitating" him. So he eventually does manage to graduate, but now he's out in the world with no prospects. His piece of poo poo father, who a lot of people blame for this fall, eventually decided on not just divorcing his mother, but trying to deliberately destroy her in the proceedings. This comes into play later. So Greg is looking for stuff to do and is kinda bad at actually getting attached to reputable businesses, a lot of "internships" and MLM. This also comes into play later. So the circle of Moms, and families, and friends step in to help him with connections. People vouch for him and eventually he lands/is placed in a decent position as a sub/temp teacher at a Catholic High School that's public knowledge now. That right there is the betrayal that a lot of us feel. He's still living at home at this time by the way. My mother starts inviting him to holidays because he'd be spending them alone otherwise, at home, because his mother had her own social life. This is about when he went Alt-right. From the outside it looked like he was doing better. He started a blog. He started a podcast. He went to Europe to...document the refugee crisis in Eastern Europe and came home with big words for a man who failed out of ROTC so hard it broke his mind. Oh and Daddy paid for it all. Captain of industry Greg Conte. Then he was fired from that teaching position. Even better, it's because he thought he was sooooo clever about calling himself Greg Ritter on his public blog and podcast while he talked about his life and what he had done, which let his Field Hockey team Harriet the Spy his rear end and turn him in. Now once again, as a favor to his mother and her friends/connections the school was just going to let him go. No announcement. In October last year they just told him to not return, so as to not prevent him from finding another job. Greg then went and decided that the SMART thing to do was the spit in our faces again, and use the firing as fodder for his "status" as an Alt-right figure. Please note daddy is STILL bankrolling him at this time and he was still living at home for the most part. Greg started to get with other Alt-righters to start businesses. But remember how he was kinda bad at that? Yeah, Greg keeps signing on to be the second signature for LLC's, with 49% share in the company, and getting voted out and fired by his partners once they get going. One was a "Tech Recruitment and Training Firm" that actually was just a townhouse in Northern Maryland that did remote only ~~something~~ with HS interns and at most only ever had 9 employees. His current 49% signature is some sort of "security firm" owned by Richard Spencer's private Bodyguard...and also run out of a private residence in MD while having filed in Wyoming. This is public knowledge too, he mentions Tyr 1 in his Twitter (or did at least) the rest comes from my mother via his mother through tears. Ultimately a lot of his dealings with the Alt-righters and his positions with them are on account of his father bankrolling him in order to kill his mother through grief. The man was in a lovely, but not unique, position. He'd been told his whole life how he was smart, capable, was send to private schools and then special programs at public ones, got into a prestigious university, hosed it up, got picked up again, was helped further onto his feet by friends and family, then when the station of his life didn't meet what he thought it should be he took the cowards way out. Instead of embodying the ideals he pays lip service to and working and pushing to a greater job or goal he turned around and decided it wasn't that he had failed at anything, it was that some secret 11 herbs and spices mix of "The Other" had conspired to keep him from greatness. Gregory Conte is a man who decided to not only wear a mask and play at success, but threw the people who actually helped and cared about him away in order to get it. ---- So that's Greg's story arc in brief. There's more but I'm iffy on some things. Tried to stick to the stuff that's "mostly" public knowledge (his podcasts, companies, etc) and giving the background on what's behind the facade. If you have questions ask away.
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Mar 6, 2018 03:23
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loving hell, he's the ultimate Failson.
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Mar 6, 2018 03:29
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Crain posted:So that's Greg's story arc in brief. There's more but I'm iffy on some things. Tried to stick to the stuff that's "mostly" public knowledge (his podcasts, companies, etc) and giving the background on what's behind the facade. If you have questions ask away. So he's Cernovich but instead of loving over a wife with alimony, he's using his dad to mess with his mother?
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Mar 6, 2018 03:33
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:So he's Cernovich but instead of loving over a wife with alimony, he's using his dad to mess with his mother? Nah, he's not even that much of a man. His dad is using HIM to mess with his mom. Greg is such a spineless poo poo that he just went for the money without even thinking about what it would do to his mother.
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Mar 6, 2018 03:36
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Crain posted:Nah, he's not even that much of a man. His dad is using HIM to mess with his mom. Greg is such a spineless poo poo that he just went for the money without even thinking about what it would do to his mother. A bigger loser than Cernovich? Yikes. Why do I get the feeling that's common among these types?
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Mar 6, 2018 03:37
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BlackIronHeart posted:"I don't agree with what you say, sir, but I'll defend your right to say it!"
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Mar 6, 2018 03:37
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:A bigger loser than Cernovich? Yikes. It's all Kayfabe. It always is. The only difference is if you're someone like Alex Jones, who doesn't drop character to keep selling snake oil, or like Greg, a rube who bought in to feel big and important. And Richard Spencer's schtick isn't even original, it's just the Westboro Baptist Church playbook. Go somewhere, start poo poo, sue the target, and try to collect a payday. But instead of just standing around with signs and kids, Spencer has Greg out there trying to provoke people to drum up attention. This time it got Greg arrested, and I guarantee you Greg is on the high of his life right now eating it all up because he did good for Richard. He's 100% toadie, and purebreed underling, and he doesn't care as long as it lets him pretend he's something.
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Mar 6, 2018 03:45
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Mar 6, 2018 03:54
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Freedom of speech means the gub'ment can't imprison you for what you say. It does not mean that your fellow citizens have to put up with your racist supremacist verbal diarrhea. That also does not mean privately owned service has to allow you to vent your spleen and vomit up whatever crap you want with no repercussions.
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Mar 6, 2018 03:58
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Not protected.
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Mar 6, 2018 03:59
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:A bigger loser than Cernovich? Yikes. It would explain the mindset. Someone who ends up failing despite having every advantage would probably be pretty resentful to the people telling them they had every advantage
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Mar 6, 2018 04:01
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:If you have 45 minutes, please watch AvE's juicero video This was charming and entertaining. I like this guy.
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Mar 6, 2018 04:01
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Solice Kirsk posted:Not protected.  I love this stupid old joke sometimes.
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Mar 6, 2018 04:11
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Avenging_Mikon posted:Please enlighten us; how do you stop a cadre of people who use the system to strip others of rights, and use the system to protect themselves? Every single criminal "uses the system to protect themselves." We manage to work within the system to arrest and penalize murderers and child molesters and the most vile of the vile. That's what rule of law means. Nobody is above it, nobody is beneath it. Or at least they're not *supposed* to be. So long as Spencer and his ilk are *speaking*, then the way you fight them is with more speaking. Do you really think Nazis are winning the battle of ideas in the public sphere? The only way you get to any significant tally of Nazis in American political discourse is by defining "Nazi" so broadly as to equate to "people who disagree with me politically in the slightest degree." According to the SPLC, there are 6000 members of the KKK in the *entire United States*. David Duke called for a big white supremacist meeting in New Orleans in 2005, it had 300 attendees. To the extent that there are literal Nazis in America (of which, sure, Spencer is one), they are an utterly marginalized and entirely impotent political force. And they have been utterly marginalized and rendered impotent by using the system. They are not an existential threat demanding we make a choice between the upholding fundamental precepts of our society and being able to fight Nazis. And if they stop speaking and start violating the law, then you can hammer them, using the system. Just like we've done with a bunch of organized crime institutions, domestic terrorists, and so on, and so forth. You make it sound like complying with the law is some brutal straitjacket that prevents doing anything against Bad People. Seriously, if all it takes to get you to say "gently caress the rule of law, let's just start rioting against the people we don't like today" is a few thousand Nazis, you really don't get the point of having laws in the first place. And you *definitely* wouldn't fare well in the kind of society that would exist if everyone felt that way. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 6, 2018 04:16
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 The Nazi assaulting this person of color died
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Mar 6, 2018 04:18
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Phanatic posted:Seriously, if all it takes to get you to say "gently caress the rule of law, let's just start rioting against the people we don't like today" is a few thousand Nazis bleh bleh blah I want you to really, really look at this sentence. Like, real hard. You wrote this.
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Mar 6, 2018 04:25
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Give it up, man. It's Phantic. "By god, someone must think of the poor oppressed Nazis!  Not allowed to exercise their god-given right to genocide the Jews!"-Phantic, without a shred of irony
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Mar 6, 2018 04:27
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BlackIronHeart posted:I want you to really, really look at this sentence. Like, real hard. You wrote this. You know there are 300,000,000 people in this country, right? And you can tell the difference between "a few thousand" and actually politically-significant populations, right? There are way more MS13 members in the US than KKK members, and MS13 doesn't give a poo poo about civil rights either, and MS13 sure "uses the system" to protect themselves." If it's worth burning the Constitution and dumping its ashes into the nearest trash can because of *Nazis*, then surely we should do it for other reasons too, right? Jesus, there are 5000 members of the *literal Communist Party* in the US today. Is that worth going all McCarthy over? Malachite_Dragon posted:Give it up, man. It's Phantic. Seriously eat a dick. I never said Nazis are oppressed. I never said Nazis have a right to engage in violent behavior. What I did was object to this twaddle right here: Ariong posted:Do you think the belief that jews and non-white people are inferior and should be expelled and/or exterminated is a valid belief that should be tolerated? This isn’t hypothetical; that is what Richard Spencer, the man you are defending, legitimately believes. That is the belief which you are sticking up for. Do you stand by it? as the insipid guilt-by-association bullshit it is. Defending someone's rights doesn't mean you're sticking up for that person or his beliefs. "The ACLU are literally Nazis" - Malachite_dragon without a shred of awareness. Phanatic has a new favorite as of 04:33 on Mar 6, 2018 |
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Mar 6, 2018 04:31
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You should take your *asterisk* key and shove it up your rear end. Thanks.
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Mar 6, 2018 04:31
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*literal communists*
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Mar 6, 2018 04:33
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Phanatic posted:You know there are 300,000,000 people in this country, right? And you can tell the difference between "a few thousand" and actually politically-significant populations, right? There are way more MS13 members in the US than KKK members, and MS13 doesn't give a poo poo about civil rights either, and MS13 sure "uses the system" to protect themselves." *Shut up, bitch*
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Mar 6, 2018 04:35
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Phanatic is right imo, but on this issue I choose to be wrong because watching Nazis get punched feels so good
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Mar 6, 2018 04:36
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Wow he must have a really big brain!!!
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Mar 6, 2018 04:38
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I typed a bunch of poo poo here before realizing all I need to say is STFU Phanatic you fascist sympathizer. Edit: PS comparing MS13, a garden variety gang, to the fuckin’ Nazis shows two things: 1. You watch Fox News because BOY do they love stories about MS13 and how bad they are, and 2. You don’t know a goddamn thing about anything. VanSandman has a new favorite as of 04:48 on Mar 6, 2018 |
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Mar 6, 2018 04:44
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Gum posted:It would explain the mindset. Someone who ends up failing despite having every advantage would probably be pretty resentful to the people telling them they had every advantage There may be something to that. A former friend of mine is similar; parents were wealthy as gently caress, living in a house that just sold for $5mil (which is big scratch in semi-rural North Carolina), etc. He had a free ride to college, he only went to classes for the first week. Claims his motorcycle was stolen, but we suspect he sold it and just told his parents it was stolen. Second semester, his parents find out he's been skipping classes and cut him off, forcing him to move back home. Joins the Army, washes out of basic 3 weeks in for what he claims is a diagnosis of Tourette's Syndrome (at this time in 2002, DD214s were available on our Register of Deeds' website, and the actual reason was "failure to meet physical fitness standards"). Dude then goes to UNC on his parents dime that fall, joins ROTC (claiming he will get back in and become first a Ranger, then go Delta, then become a helicopter pilot...a statement which has all of his friends with military experience howling with laughter), either quits or fails out his first semester. That second failure is when he went screaming into the fever swamp and came out with 9/11 is an inside job, Sandy Hook was a hoax, white men are oppressed by feminists and blacks, etc etc etc. Last interaction I had was him earnestly telling me a bunch of red pill bullshit and that 'white privilege' does not exist and 'white disadvantage' was the true state of things. Last photo I ever saw of the guy, he was in DC with a MAGA hat for the inauguration. Fine place for a man who wouldn't stop screaming about fascism and the police state for the previous 10 years. Anyway, he has worked as a parking lot attendant since 2009 and somehow owns two homes that he expects us to believe he paid for by himself. As a mutual friend put it, "outliving his father will be the closest he comes to having an accomplishment".
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Mar 6, 2018 04:49
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Phanatic posted:Every single criminal "uses the system to protect themselves." We manage to work within the system to arrest and penalize murderers and child molesters and the most vile of the vile. That's what rule of law means. Nobody is above it, nobody is beneath it. Or at least they're not *supposed* to be. I used to think you were a pedantic rear end in a top hat who thought too much of himself. I know better now. You’re just massively privileged and have no idea that the system can actually be flawed and used to disastrous ends. Which is actually much sadder. I don’t think everything needs to be thrown out and rebuilt from scratch like some do, but Nazis and their ilk don’t use words to make arguments, they never argue in good faith, they twist language to suit their needs which is deflecting people from forcing them in to the fringes. If it takes beating the poo poo of them to show that society will not tolerate them, then so be it, even if "the system" says it’s wrong. It’s not a slippery slope, it’s a clear line in the sand. We Will Not Allow Subjegation. And your valuing the system over people makes it not worth engaging with your privileged rear end.
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Mar 6, 2018 04:54
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U-DO Burger posted:Phanatic is right imo, but on this issue I choose to be wrong because watching Nazis get punched feels so good It's like smoking weed, technically illegal but in no way immoral.
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Mar 6, 2018 04:55
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VanSandman posted:I typed a bunch of poo poo here before realizing all I need to say is STFU Phanatic you fascist sympathizer. Looking forward to when you realise you can just not post
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Mar 6, 2018 05:00
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Phanatic doesn't have any idea how the system can work, unintentionally or not, against someone. To make this clear, he argues against attacking Nazis for being literal nazis. Or, he sympathizes and only knows how to use asterisks like a neckbeard *nuzzling you* in an attempt to throw the trail. Either way, Get hosed Phanatic.
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Mar 6, 2018 05:02
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Phanatic posted:Every single criminal "uses the system to protect themselves." quote:So long as Spencer and his ilk are *speaking*, then the way you fight them is with more speaking. Do you really think Nazis are winning the battle of ideas in the public sphere? The only way you get to any significant tally of Nazis in American political discourse is by defining "Nazi" so broadly as to equate to "people who disagree with me politically in the slightest degree." quote:Seriously, if all it takes to get you to say "gently caress the rule of law, let's just start rioting against the people we don't like today" is a few thousand Nazis, you really don't get the point of having laws in the first place. And you *definitely* wouldn't fare well in the kind of society that would exist if everyone felt that way. You appeal to the divinity of law and its enforcers. This is the path of the fascist, blind adherence to authority.
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Mar 6, 2018 05:11
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I for one am impressed by the free speech absolutists staunch, yet calm, demeanor in defending groups with ideologies centered around ethnically cleansing large swaths of the population. A demeanor, we can all be sure, that has nothing to do with the fact that they're not the people being targeted by these groups.
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Mar 6, 2018 05:15
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Schadenfreude is watching anyone engage with Phanatic.
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Mar 6, 2018 05:19
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Phanatic posted:Jesus, there are 5000 members of the *literal Communist Party* in the US today. Is that worth going all McCarthy over? No, because what you and your Dunning-Krugerwaffen chums don't realise is that communism is p. good and being a member of the communist party isn't a bad thing (unlike being Phanatic).
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Mar 6, 2018 05:27
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Cpt_Obvious posted:N...no? That's what makes them criminals? Not working within a legal framework? These Nazis aren't breaking any laws, so they aren't criminals, but that doesn't mean you can just let them organize and proliferate. T I didn't say they were criminals, I used actual criminals as an example of how even when confronted with actual violent crime in continuing process, we do not abandon the system in order to combat it. quote:You appeal to the divinity of law and its enforcers. This is the path of the fascist, blind adherence to authority. This is seriously some black-is-white, up-is-down stuff right here. "Rule of law" isn't an appeal to the divinity of law and its enforcers. It's the opposite: a recognition that there's nothing divine about the people in charge of enforcing it. That the enforcers are in fact utterly base and profane, and that whenever given the opportunity they will enforce those laws in an arbitrary and capricious fashion. Which is why it is of the utmost important that that not be tolerated. It's the opposite of fascism, which is the political philosophy that says if you get together with enough of your buddies and crack enough skulls that you achieve political legitimacy. Popehat: quote:We have social and legal norms, including "don't punch people because their speech is evil, and don't punish them legally." Applying those norms is not a judgment that the speech in question is valuable, or decent, or morally acceptable. We apply the norms out of a recognition of human frailty — because the humanity that will be deciding whom to punch and whom to prosecute is the same humanity that produced the Nazis in the first place, and has a well-established record of making really terrible decisions. You — the bien-pensant reader, confident that sensible punchers and prosecutors can sort out Nazis from the not-Nazis — will likely not be doing the punching or prosecuting. The punching and prosecuting will be done by a rogue's gallery of vicious idiots, including people who think that Black Lives Matter should be indicted under RICO and that it's funny to send women death threats if they write a column you don't like. Cpt_Obvious posted:Any society that actively routs out Nazism is a better society. Like modern Germany, we should have laws that make the ideology illegal, or at least redefine it under intimidation, which it clearly is, and is something that the first amendment does not protect. As I've mentioned before, if you look at any nation that has hate speech laws like you advocate, you'll find that those laws are not limited in application to the people you don't like. Germany recently prosecuted a comedian for making fun of Erdogan. Germany's new Net Enforcement Law is currently opposed not only by hard-right parties, but also by the Free Democrats, the Greens, and the Left party. France has convicted and upheld the sentences of pro-Palestinian activists for wearing t-shirts calling for a boycott of Israel. Britain has prosecuted Muslims who celebrated the death of British solders in Afghanistan. And Germany's speech suppression is by no means limited to the far right: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/world/europe/germany-bans-far-left-antifa-website.html?mcubz=3 Any hate speech law is just going to criminalize speech the majority finds unworthy of protection, which means that the speakers being prosecuted with be minority speakers. Popehat again: quote:In embracing a norm that punching Nazis is acceptable, also consider that the new administration's White House web page has a law enforcement section that characterizes protests as dangerous and violent and promises robust police action in response, and that Trump and his supporters have decreed that the Department of Justice will no longer persecute poor hapless police departments. Protest-related violence delivers grossly disproportionate increases in police violence and in public acceptance for police violence. The people who will face that violence the most are not the ones laughing on their Yale alumni Facebook page about a Nazi getting punched. They are mostly poor and mostly non-white. If you're okay with emboldening increased violence against poor people because you enjoy looped gifs of Nazis getting punched, you're a douche. Lurkman posted:A demeanor, we can all be sure, that has nothing to do with the fact that they're not the people being targeted by these groups. Again, this is such a facile argument, it's morally no different than attacking defense attorneys because they have the balls to defend bad people. The ACLU lawyer who fought for the right of the Nazis to march in Skokie was a guy named David Goldberger. http://harvardlpr.com/2012/07/20/te...r-scotus-cases/ A lot of the "free speech absolutists" are in fact the people being targeted by these groups. Phanatic has a new favorite as of 05:47 on Mar 6, 2018 |
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Mar 6, 2018 05:33
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Crain posted:So that's Greg's story arc in brief. Appreciate the effortpost. If he was less of an rear end in a top hat, I'd just find this whole story kind of sad. (A LOT of people get out of school and run head-on into the realization that being pretty good at math doesn't guarantee success and happiness, and doesn't even mean they're special. Hell, that happened to me.) But since he's gone all alt-right, that pushes all of this well into "funny" territory, and makes for prime fodder for this thread. Thanks again for the writeup.
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Mar 6, 2018 05:39
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I think that if anyone has fantasies on the subject of beating up Nazis, I'd want to see them post in one of the martial arts threads on this here forum and actually train reliably in combat sports or they're only kidding themselves as to their actual chances and shouldn't go in harms way. I think Phanatic was kinda frustrated at the posturing of internet tough guys that albeit good hearted, have no loving clue what they are talking about. I remember seeing a pic of a very light antifa lady that posted pics of herself before going to a protest looking for a fight and posted after pics with her face all bloody after getting beaten up by Nazis. That's what could happen to any protestor. It's dangerous out there and just crossing fingers and hoping that you've got people that will have your back in the crowd is taking a huge loving risk.
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Mar 6, 2018 05:43
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