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There's always Adore's hog body.
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Mar 9, 2018 00:28
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esperterra posted:There's always Adore's hog body. Adore has a great body. 
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Mar 9, 2018 00:30
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I think there's room to expand the definition of drag, but I think it staying queer is a hard boundary. Cis straight people have no place in it because the whole thing is a rejection of the roles cis straight people discriminate against us for not fitting. I think a bi or lesbian cis woman could have an interesting perspective to share as a drag queen, as norms of butch/femme often get enforced really hard on them in a different way from trans women or gay men. Similarly, I think a trans man could have a valuable perspective as a queen. Ditto the vice versa situation and kings. I think it's time for drag to become a larger field of gender performance with many subgenres within it. The queer community has a nasty habit of excluding one another through needless subdivision and it needs to stop. Not everyone has to like every drag style, but there's room for all those voices. Honestly, I think it's fine for drag race to be about a particular subset of drag. My and others reaction to rupauls latest comments have a lot to do with his long history of giving the finger to trans people. If he'd just said like "I want my show to be about gay men, and we should have more drag content for other genres" I think everyone would have been fine. Instead he made his point by marginalizing trans contributions to drag and here we are. Cis straight drag is where I draw the line, because there's just no way for the to exist without being a mockery of gender nonconforming people.
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Mar 9, 2018 01:00
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Yeah, Ru's wording combined with his history of having bad/outdated views of the trans community is what made it blow up so much. Had he come prepared for the question it may have gone better ... but prob not b/c it's Ru and that's how he rolls. I'm amazed he hasn't tried using the Drag Race brand to make shows about diff styles of drag and get that dolla. Here's hoping he or someone else thinks to do it now Drag Race is bigger than ever.
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Mar 9, 2018 01:06
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esperterra posted:Yeah, Ru's wording combined with his history of having bad/outdated views of the trans community is what made it blow up so much. Had he come prepared for the question it may have gone better ... but prob not b/c it's Ru and that's how he rolls. Yeah. It kinda sucks that Logo is all golden girls reruns and poo poo when there's like a million genres of queer performance out there that don't get any attention.
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Mar 9, 2018 01:08
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cis autodrag posted:Cis straight drag is where I draw the line, because there's just no way for the to exist without being a mockery of gender nonconforming people. I think I get where you're coming from, and we've probably all run into plenty of examples of "bro with a Party City wig and balloons under his shirt" that are engaging in exactly the sort of mockery you're talking about. On the other hand, rejecting rigid gender norms is something cis straight people should also be doing, right? Drag's not the only way to do that, but it is a really visible way. On the other other hand, it's not hard to argue that cis straight drag is appropriation and shouldn't happen on those grounds. So ... no idea how I should feel about this. Full disclosure: cis, straight, and have done drag a couple of times (not professionally; I didn't take anyone's job, at least). I'm trying not to come at this from a position of defensiveness or self-interest. Intent isn't everything, but my intent was definitely not mockery, and I hate to think it might have read that way at the time.
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Mar 9, 2018 01:42
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I think straight people doing drag is fine, so long as they're respectful of the spaces they perform in and people they perform for. If a straight dude wants to get his Cher on I say go for it. It would be weird if a straight guy was on Drag Race, but personally I wouldn't mind if one showed up eventually. They've auditioned before though none have gotten in.
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Mar 9, 2018 01:51
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I didn't want to wear brown hair 
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Mar 9, 2018 02:12
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cis autodrag posted:Cis straight drag is where I draw the line, because there's just no way for the to exist without being a mockery of gender nonconforming people. I dunno, I feel like a cishet guy could conceivably do it if it was for the same reason. Straight guys are just as tied down and defined by toxic masculine stereotypes as gay people, and drag could be a healthy way for him to explore his feminine side. It's all about intent, honestly.
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Mar 9, 2018 02:19
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curiousTerminal posted:I dunno, I feel like a cishet guy could conceivably do it if it was for the same reason. Straight guys are just as tied down and defined by toxic masculine stereotypes as gay people, and drag could be a healthy way for him to explore his feminine side. It's all about intent, honestly. 100%.
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Mar 9, 2018 02:22
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Kennedy's eye makeup really makes her look more cross eyed than she already is. Why did she do that to herself?
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Mar 9, 2018 02:31
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Holy poo poo Shangy’s lip sync.
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Mar 9, 2018 02:57
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curiousTerminal posted:I dunno, I feel like a cishet guy could conceivably do it if it was for the same reason. Straight guys are just as tied down and defined by toxic masculine stereotypes as gay people, and drag could be a healthy way for him to explore his feminine side. It's all about intent, honestly. For me, it's too much like white people rocking dreadlocks. A cis straight guy has too much power to participate on equal footing. It's cultural appropriation. Cis straight guys created all the gender structures we're trapped in and they don't get to be in our club until they, as a group, fix their poo poo. There's nothing I hate more as a lesbian than going to a gay club only to be hit on by straight guys. And it happens all. The. Time. It's an invasion of space.
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Mar 9, 2018 02:59
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Miz Kriss posted:Holy poo poo Shangy’s lip sync.
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Mar 9, 2018 03:00
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Miz Kriss posted:Holy poo poo Shangy’s lip sync. It was Shangela's to lose when Ben left, and I think that just earned her place in the HoF. "Never been closer" my rear end.
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Mar 9, 2018 03:01
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I would be really interested in a straight queen, not just because I'm straight and would likely be a fan but because I think the story would be interesting. Maybe it's not for RPDR just yet but I would watch a documentary for sure. If there is one place where a cis-male would likely face some form of discrimination today, it would be in the drag community? Obviously there are lightyears of difference between that and the type of discrimination that LGBTQ people face every second of every day but still. I can't imagine it would be all that easy to gain acceptance without putting in serious work. Maybe it would show how far we have come in terms of acceptance but on the other hand I can totally see it being taken as cis-males forcing their way into the only space they don't already dominate. It would certainly spur an interesting debate. Straight women doing female drag is where I would draw the line.
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Mar 9, 2018 03:13
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cis autodrag posted:For me, it's too much like white people rocking dreadlocks. A cis straight guy has too much power to participate on equal footing. It's cultural appropriation. Cis straight guys created all the gender structures we're trapped in and they don't get to be in our club until they, as a group, fix their poo poo. Lol at you telling someone they can't do something because of how they were born.
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Mar 9, 2018 03:13
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cis autodrag posted:I think there's room to expand the definition of drag, but I think it staying queer is a hard boundary. Cis straight people have no place in it because the whole thing is a rejection of the roles cis straight people discriminate against us for not fitting. loving thank you, you're the only person I've seen who didn't immediately associate a cis woman being a drag queen with het girls. people immediately use the word "cishet" and apparently forget that cis lesbians exist entirely, and our perception of gender roles and how they affect us as queer women is completely different from a straight woman  edit: CaptainScraps posted:Lol at you telling someone they can't do something because of how they were born. holy poo poo lol this is such a cheap false equivalence why don't we have a straight pride??? 
TOO MANY GOBLINS fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Mar 9, 2018 |
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Mar 9, 2018 03:17
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Good interview with Michelle Visage. She talks about her history with drag, getting on Drag Race, and some other stuff.
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Mar 9, 2018 03:27
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CaptainScraps posted:Lol at you telling someone they can't do something because of how they were born. I mean, why can't white people say the n word just because they were born white?
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Mar 9, 2018 03:28
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TOO MANY GOBLINS posted:holy poo poo lol this is such a cheap false equivalence I'm going to call out intolerance when I see it. I don't give a poo poo whether it's pointed at you or pointed at me.
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Mar 9, 2018 03:38
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Pellisworth posted:I mean, why can't white people say the n word just because they were born white? but why don't we have a white history month??
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Mar 9, 2018 03:43
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cis autodrag posted:Yeah. It kinda sucks that Logo is all golden girls reruns and poo poo when there's like a million genres of queer performance out there that don't get any attention. Aaaaaand this is why I love the poo poo out of Dragula and I hope it runs for 10 more seasons
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Mar 9, 2018 04:01
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curiousTerminal posted:I dunno, I feel like a cishet guy could conceivably do it if it was for the same reason. Straight guys are just as tied down and defined by toxic masculine stereotypes as gay people, and drag could be a healthy way for him to explore his feminine side. It's all about intent, honestly. I was someone who was ruthlessly bullied and tormented for being "gay" as a child/teenager because I was very skinny, short, painfully shy and afraid to approach girls. I love drag, I've been a fan since season 3 and I have now have a supportive partner who also loves it. In fact, we met the night of Drag Race season 15 finale and watched it together as our second date the next night. She is very encouraging that I try out drag but I am not ready. I don't want to open any of those old wounds, but moreso I'm terrified that my very presence wouldn't be welcome. I think it's unfortunate that no matter how much respect I present in my character or to the venue and patrons that some people wouldn't want me in their space. If someone came up and said that I shouldn't be doing drag because I'm straight, I would probably never do drag again as well as never go to that establishment again for fear of embarresment. Edit: a man in drag is still a man in drag, why does it matter so much about what sex the person is that I put my penis in at home? Bliggers- fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Mar 9, 2018 |
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Mar 9, 2018 04:17
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Shangela has the best track record and I still amazing in general, so I hope that she gets into the Hall of Fame. However, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them conjure up a justification for Trixie winning the trophy considering her success off the show. I’m just haleloo-img to the gay gods that Shangie gets the crown that she deserves.
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Mar 9, 2018 04:25
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CaptainScraps posted:I'm going to call out intolerance when I see it. I don't give a poo poo whether it's pointed at you or pointed at me. It's actually just fine for minorities to have their own things where the majority isn't welcome to some extent. Just because you disagree with her doesn't make her opinion an intolerant one. Drag is part of queer counterculture. Ballroom culture a la Paris is Burning in particular is a safe space for mostly PoC queer people to express themselves and win approval where they were excluded by mainstream culture. Bliggers- posted:Edit: a man in drag is still a man in drag, why does it matter so much about what sex the person is that I put my penis in at home? I personally don't have a problem with cishet men doing drag with the huuuge caveat that, as you say, you'd need to be respectful and mindful of the fact that it's a queer performance art dominated by queer people. Yes, some people would take issue with you intruding on "our" thing. Cishet people don't share the same life experiences as queer people, so you're coming at it from a different angle. I would say that cishet women doing female drag (bio-queens) is not really "drag" since drag is about gender-bending and defying gender norms. I think it has value in affirming and embracing a woman's femininity, but it's not quite the same thing. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Mar 9, 2018 |
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Mar 9, 2018 04:43
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Pellisworth posted:It's actually just fine for minorities to have their own things where the majority isn't welcome to some extent. I agree. I can understand how marginalized races, genders and classes can feel uncomfortable discussing these issues. I'm uncomfortable discussing these issues and I'm the majority. But saying "You're not welcome here" or "You can't do this" is a lot different than saying: quote:You'd need to be respectful and mindful G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Mar 9, 2018 |
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Mar 9, 2018 05:08
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Straight cis people have so loving much why do they have to be included in one of the only shows on tv that's guaranteed to star LGBT individuals. I'm a lesbian, im non-gender conforming, I like being able to watch SOMETHING that at least a little bit represents me and my community without having to worry about straight people barging in and going 'but what about ME!?'. anyway I hope Shangela wins 
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Mar 9, 2018 06:00
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I'm not super thrilled about this era of props in lip syncs after the S9 finale and this fat suit (and the less I have to think about Alexis' stupid tiny witch hat the better...)Pellisworth posted:I personally don't have a problem with cishet men doing drag with the huuuge caveat that, as you say, you'd need to be respectful and mindful of the fact that it's a queer performance art dominated by queer people. Yes, some people would take issue with you intruding on "our" thing. Cishet people don't share the same life experiences as queer people, so you're coming at it from a different angle. There was a straight(-ish?) dude on the last season of Dragula that was cool (and pretty entertaining, it was like this strange performance art thing). They mentioned that he was married to a woman at the start of the season and then it was never really an issue. Online he totally plays up the thirsty dick pig thing just like most queens too.
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Mar 9, 2018 06:01
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CaptainScraps posted:I agree. I can understand how marginalized races, genders and classes can feel uncomfortable discussing these issues. I'm uncomfortable discussing these issues and I'm the majority. But saying "You're not welcome here" or "You can't do this" is a lot different than saying: Maybe if you want queer people to trust and respect you as a cis het man, stop acting like you're loving entitled to everyone else's poo poo and wait for an invitation. It's not your culture and boohoo for you that there's one place in the world that you can't just barge in dick swinging. You are the exact reason straight cis men don't belong in drag.
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Mar 9, 2018 06:04
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warez posted:I'm not super thrilled about this era of props in lip syncs after the S9 finale and this fat suit (and the less I have to think about Alexis' stupid tiny witch hat the better...) Yeah, this far suit didn't even look good. If it was still super good looking it might be fine but it was a just a sloppy laugh.
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Mar 9, 2018 06:05
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SHANGELA USES PROPS TRIXIE MATTEL FUNNY BEBE KIND OF IRRITATING ... this season only had the one good plot moment didn't it
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Mar 9, 2018 06:05
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Seriously, lol at the gaggle of straight guys who swooped in to Not All Men and whine about us filthy exclusionary queers.
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Mar 9, 2018 06:05
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cis autodrag posted:Seriously, lol at the gaggle of straight guys who swooped in to Not All Men and whine about us filthy exclusionary queers. what did you expect. Can I get a gif of Trixie's blank stare + thumbs up combo because I laughed the most at that tonight.
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Mar 9, 2018 06:07
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Magikarpal Tunnel posted:what did you expect. I'm a Milwaukee girl and I am Trixie all the way. She's finally showing on screen what she brings live and it's everything to me.
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Mar 9, 2018 06:10
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cis autodrag posted:Maybe if you want queer people to trust and respect you as a cis het man, stop acting like you're loving entitled to everyone else's poo poo and wait for an invitation. It's not your culture and boohoo for you that there's one place in the world that you can't just barge in dick swinging. You are the exact reason straight cis men don't belong in drag. I am waiting for the invitation. Will it ever come? Or does that even matter? Edit: I know this wasn't directed at me
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Mar 9, 2018 06:35
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cis autodrag posted:I'm a Milwaukee girl and I am Trixie all the way. She's finally showing on screen what she brings live and it's everything to me. I'm a midwest (great lakes) girl too and I LOVE Trixie, but at this point I feel like Shangela needs the crown. Well, earned the crown. She's come a LONG way since season 2, she's always been entertaining to watch, and she's killing it this season.
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Mar 9, 2018 06:54
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I know it was a cheap fat suit, but I died laughing at Shangela. Her physical execution was perfect. She looked and moved like a real life South Park character.
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Mar 9, 2018 07:24
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Magikarpal Tunnel posted:I'm a midwest (great lakes) girl too and I LOVE Trixie, but at this point I feel like Shangela needs the crown. Well, earned the crown. She's come a LONG way since season 2, she's always been entertaining to watch, and she's killing it this season. I wouldn't be sad either way. It's funny, on this show weaker queens sometimes stick around too long (*cough* alexis michelle *cough*), but usually the right girls end up winning, and there's usually 2-3 people who feel "right" for it.
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Mar 9, 2018 07:47
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I feel like a monster; I totally woulda booted Bebe since I know for drat sure that Ru would slice Morgan out of the top 4 her own drat self. (oh also imo drag is a queer subculture and cishet folks really have no reason to be there unless it's to support the art and their friends. drag as a cishet woman isn't brave, it's just elevating what's already there.)
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Mar 9, 2018 07:48
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