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Defiance Industries posted:(hey how do I tell him that the Atlas is actually kinda lovely?) Yeah, but who will arrest the next generation of Lyran Mech Reporter if there's no Atlas?
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Mar 9, 2018 20:28
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Defiance Industries posted:(hey how do I tell him that the Atlas is actually kinda lovely?) A) Its iconic, no matter how bad. B) Zaodai posted:There are some Clanners that would disagree with you, if they hadn't all died fighting an Atlas in a hurricane. 
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Mar 9, 2018 20:31
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wiegieman posted:A complete rework of the Atlas, so different as to be an entirety different mech, yes. Most Atlas variants are very different from ye olde Atlas D. 2 of the King Atlas variants are fairly similar to the Atlas K, albeit with even more advanced equipment and the LRM20 dropped to make room for more pew pew. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Mar 9, 2018 |
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Mar 9, 2018 20:37
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Xarn posted:A) Its iconic, no matter how bad. Marketing often convinces people to overlook glaring flaws so I consider this a compliment to the fine work Defiance Industries has been doing. Kind of like the Arbiter or the Quasit, but much more expensive.
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Mar 9, 2018 20:54
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Real talk, in pretty much every BT-related game I tried, the Atlas was a bit underwhelming, but I can't help but like Mech with skullface 
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Mar 9, 2018 20:57
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Xarn posted:Real talk, in pretty much every BT-related game I tried, the Atlas was a bit underwhelming, but I can't help but like Mech with skullface That's because it suffers from the same thing a number of stock mechs do, which is that it's intentionally gimped because most stock designs aren't supposed to be optimized. If two of its medium lasers weren't rear facing, an AC/20 + 4 ML + an SRM six makes for some good short range punch for the early eras. The LRM20 tacked on to ostensibly give the Atlas ranged firepower in the fluff never really works out that way on any mech. Put it in a situation (such as a newtech timeskip) where it can be brought up to the elevated 'mech design competency level that PTN employs, and the Atlas could undoubtedly be as fearsome as any of his other machines, even if you don't engage in King Dadlas level shenanigans.
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Mar 9, 2018 21:30
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We're not going to not see it, but at the point of the timeskip it's common knowledge that "no one has upgraded the Atlas yet"
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Mar 9, 2018 21:34
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Zaodai posted:That's because it suffers from the same thing a number of stock mechs do, which is that it's intentionally gimped because most stock designs aren't supposed to be optimized. If two of its medium lasers weren't rear facing, an AC/20 + 4 ML + an SRM six makes for some good short range punch for the early eras. The LRM20 tacked on to ostensibly give the Atlas ranged firepower in the fluff never really works out that way on any mech. I mean, there's "not fully optimized" and then there's "3/5 Mech can only do 20 damage (rolled in clusters) outside of 9 hexes." There's a couple of exceptions now (hello, LPPC, you kind of flipped building lights on its head) but for the most part in BT, long range weapon = heavy weapon, and assaults need to stack up on them. I was going to say that if you replaced the AC/20 with an AC/10 and used the savings for more long-range guns, it would make for a much better machine but then I realized I was basically describing the short-range weapons battery on the Banshee-S.
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Mar 9, 2018 21:48
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PoptartsNinja posted:We're not going to not see it, but at the point of the timeskip it's common knowledge that "no one has upgraded the Atlas yet" EMPEROR DADLAS CONFIRMED
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Mar 9, 2018 21:58
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Defiance Industries posted:I mean, there's "not fully optimized" and then there's "3/5 Mech can only do 20 damage (rolled in clusters) outside of 9 hexes." There's a couple of exceptions now (hello, LPPC, you kind of flipped building lights on its head) but for the most part in BT, long range weapon = heavy weapon, and assaults need to stack up on them. In its time it was one of the few mechs that could even mount an AC/20 and back then all that armor actually meant something. Then the 3050s happen and it's all Gauss Rifles and ER Larges unless you're Lyran social general (they have to wait a decade to get a proper update).
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Mar 9, 2018 21:59
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BattleMechs with Gauss Rifles: BZK-F7 Hollander (I finished it after all!) STN-11S Sentinel (Light Gauss) BJ5-O Blackjack B SHD-14S Shadow Hawk GLH-20D Galahad (Light Gauss) CRD-3O Crusader JN-G14A Jinggau RFL-13N-2 Rifleman II HA3-O Hauptman A HA3-O Hauptman D BattleMechs with AC/20s: HBK-404 Hunchback HA3-O Hauptman Prime HA3-O Hauptman B 
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Mar 9, 2018 22:19
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dis astranagant posted:In its time it was one of the few mechs that could even mount an AC/20 and back then all that armor actually meant something. Then the 3050s happen and it's all Gauss Rifles and ER Larges unless you're Lyran social general (they have to wait a decade to get a proper update). UrbanMech, Hunchback, Centurion, Victor, Charger, Cyclops, Banshee, Atlas. And that's not even getting into the SLDF downgrades that aren't being produced, but you might still have floating around. Plenty of options there, IMO. PoptartsNinja posted:BZK-F7 Hollander (I finished it after all!) Yes, my other sweet boy. He was a garbage mech but in this timeline he's MY garbage mech.
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Mar 9, 2018 22:37
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But how many will be mounted on tanks?
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Mar 9, 2018 22:41
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It's less that the Atlas is bad, and more the fact that as technology advances, combat becomes far more lethal and decisive, what with the massive weight saving technologies making it possible to make insanely fast, cool running gunboats with enough firepower to melt a Battlemech into a puddle, not to mention the prevailance of Headchopper weapons that can insta-kill even the strongest of machines. Combat becomes less about the quality of your machine and more about how you and your buddies can leverage as unfair an advantage as possible so that you can kill the enemy before they can kill you. This is why the C3 Computer and its variations became so popular in later eras, and why subsequently Guardian/Angel ECM Suites became this huuuuuuge deal, since you needed something to counteract the huge benefits a C3 network gives your opponent. Rorahusky fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Mar 9, 2018 |
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Mar 9, 2018 22:43
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goatface posted:But how many will be mounted on tanks? drat I didn't even think of that! PTN, have tanks and BA also achieved new upgrades or have they been shuffled into the second tier of forces along with old-timey mechs?
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Mar 9, 2018 22:45
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^^^ I have not done tanks yet but I plan to make the Vedette terrifying (this is a lie, we will see upgraded tanks and battle armor though) Fortunately, all it takes to protect yourself from a Gauss Rifle headcap is Kinetic Dampening armor. They're still headcappers but they're less reliable Autocannons have the option to switch ammo types, so the AC/20 is always a headcapper unless it's run dry on the appropriate ammo. I feel that's a pretty fair trade.
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Mar 9, 2018 22:47
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PoptartsNinja posted:BZK-F7 Hollander (I finished it after all!) I'll always love that gun with legs.
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Mar 10, 2018 01:08
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sebmojo posted:EMPEROR DADLAS CONFIRMED Hmn. My bet's on something grand and/or stupid, like a superheavy pacific rim-style atlas.
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Mar 10, 2018 01:17
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PoptartsNinja posted:Kinetic Dampening armor I know the ship has pretty much sailed on this, but since I refuse to go quietly into that good night... could we not call it "Kinetic Damping armor" instead?
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Mar 10, 2018 01:22
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I hope the Demon Hawks made it out ok and are still kicking rear end (even if it's as basically part of the NRWN forces).
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Mar 10, 2018 01:22
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DatonKallandor posted:I hope the Demon Hawks made it out ok and are still kicking rear end (even if it's as basically part of the NRWN forces). PTN said during the vote that they're not dying off camera.
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Mar 10, 2018 01:49
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DatonKallandor posted:I hope the Demon Hawks made it out ok and are still kicking rear end (even if it's as basically part of the NRWN forces). "Elite Rim Worlds House Unit" wouldn't be a bad state of affairs for a merc unit
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Mar 10, 2018 02:16
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Every time you write Dampening I choose to believe that the armor bleeds off kinetic energy by forcing impregnated nano-suspension fluids out of micro pores in the process of impact-related collapse, and there's nothing you can do to stop me.
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Mar 10, 2018 02:26
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Leperflesh posted:I know the ship has pretty much sailed on this, but since I refuse to go quietly into that good night... could we not call it "Kinetic Damping armor" instead? Sure, it's just an excuse for a KDA joke. Dampening is still being used correctly though. 
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Mar 10, 2018 02:37
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PoptartsNinja posted:Sure, it's just an excuse for a KDA joke. Dampening is still being used correctly though. Let's approach this problem from a different direction. Are you pouring water on their ammo? Because then it's dampening armor. Are you reducing the armor's maximum experienced force due to an incoming round? In that case, it's damping armor.
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Mar 10, 2018 03:06
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I know there are mediums and assaults with AC/20s, but what about heavies? I cant think of one and it kinda confuses me why there are no heavies with an AC/20.
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Mar 10, 2018 03:06
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wiegieman posted:Let's approach this problem from a different direction. Are you pouring water on their ammo? Because then it's dampening armor. Are you reducing the armor's maximum experienced force due to an incoming round? In that case, it's damping armor. PTN is also "correct" because "dampening" has been used instead of "damping" so long that it's essentially become correct. That's part of how language evolves. But I hate it because it sounds bad to my ear and I'm old and crusty so I get to shake my fist at a cloud etc.
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Mar 10, 2018 03:13
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I know there are mediums and assaults with AC/20s, but what about heavies? I cant think of one and it kinda confuses me why there are no heavies with an AC/20. There's level 2 machines with AC/20s, but I think there's a couple reasons you don't see AC/20 based heavies in 3025. One, Cavalry heavy is a GREAT match for an AC/20, maybe even the absolute best thing you can put them on. But before XL engines you didn't really have room for a lot of guns. You can just barely squeeze one into a Dragon at the expense of its entire arsenal, but it leaves you without even a medium laser to spare. You get to take ten shots and then you might as well just retreat. Two, sticking an AC/20 into most of the heavies would kind of raise the question of "Why not just use a Victor?" Basically all the heavies are 4/6, and you have to gut basically their entire arsenals to fit an AC/20, so you've got... a 4/6 machine with an AC/20 and not much else. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Mar 10, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 03:35
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Defiance Industries posted:There's level 2 machines with AC/20s, but I think there's a couple reasons you don't see AC/20 based heavies in 3025. I would have sworn there's an Orion with an AC/20, but I can't find it to prove its existence. An AC/20 is only two tons heavier than an AC/10. If something mounts an AC/10, you can probably find a couple other tons to make it fit. The Orion is a prime candidate for it. That said, I'd take an AC/10 over an AC/20 eight or nine times out of ten, so I don't actually do that, but it's entirely possible.
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Mar 10, 2018 03:41
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Strobe posted:I would have sworn there's an Orion with an AC/20, but I can't find it to prove its existence. You might be thinking of the Perseus config with an LB-20X. I can see why you wouldn't stick an AC/20 on an Orion, though, it's a loving TERRIBLE match for the LRMs.
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Mar 10, 2018 03:46
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The AC/20 covers the minimum range on a 'Mech that's not known for running cool in the first place. It's not a perfectly optimized bracket-fire monstrosity, but it's functionally a decent 'Mech with max armor, a huge hole puncher, and some critseeking potential. It'd basically turn it into a mini-AS7-D (I mean, you'd lose the lasers, but meh) that's faster, and thereby fix the Atlas's single greatest weakness. It'd be perfectly fine in 3025's stock 'Mech field of aggressive mediocrity.
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Mar 10, 2018 03:53
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I understand committing to covering your minimum range. That's my very favorite use for the SNPPC. However, I think devoting 16 tons to doing so is slight overkill, that's all.
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Mar 10, 2018 03:56
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It was more a comment aimed at how the two weapons mesh horribly (or not horribly, as I tend to think). At 5 hexes, the AC/20 and LRM (which is not the primary weapon) have the same modifier. In PTN's houserules, the LRM never suffers penalties worse than medium range anyway. Firing at medium range is neither unheard of nor particularly a bad idea unless you're so short on ammo that you have to make every single shot count. In a sense I'm more taking issue with the hyperbole of suggesting that an AC/20 on a slow-ish platform is a terrible idea. There isn't an AC/20 platform that isn't slow in 3025. None of them have armor even approaching good, most of them have armor that struggles to be mediocre.
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Mar 10, 2018 04:09
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PoptartsNinja posted:Assault 'Mech List is up. The Hauptman made it on, DI would've killed me if it hadn't. What about the Dadlas? Special exception despite being NRWR? Oh well, if not we'll just take comfort in our carrier fleet. (Maybe the Demon Hawks can singlehandedly save Andurien...) RA Rx fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Mar 10, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 06:10
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wiegieman posted:Let's approach this problem from a different direction. Are you pouring water on their ammo? Because then it's dampening armor. Are you reducing the armor's maximum experienced force due to an incoming round? In that case, it's damping armor. "Dampen" also means "to make less strong or intense" in American English, which I speak. I prefer it because quote:I went up to my chamber, all for to take a slumber PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Mar 10, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 06:31
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PTN can you share the address where you are posting the new mechs and stuff again?
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Mar 10, 2018 12:20
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Well, I've sent my orders in. Don't look behind door number two, Monty. It's time to play End-of-the-line-my-valentine! Geroni-roni-doo-ron-ron-i-mo!
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Mar 10, 2018 15:17
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JacksAngryBiome posted:PTN can you share the address where you are posting the new mechs and stuff again? The 'Mech files have not been posted, so far it's just planning and lists, but they're on my Patreon I do intend to post all the SSW files for the post-timeskip 'Mechs at some point in the semi-near future once I've had a chance to see if I've made any glaring omissions (like the Trebuchet, I know I forgot about the Trebuchet). They won't really be playable in MegaMEK (the targeting computers are bought with communications equipment, the autocannons don't come with a free ton of ammo, etc). Edit: The days of the medium laser being "the" back-up weapon have passed, that's for sure. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Mar 10, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 17:49
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Can you put twin ac20s on a jagermech in tabletop?
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Mar 11, 2018 00:58
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You could, sure. You can do it in MWO, too, it's just really bad because lol no armor
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Mar 11, 2018 01:15
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