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gradenko_2000 posted:A wargame about setting up and maintaining a logistics train from the town to the wilderness to a dungeon's FEBA would unironically own. You'd start with caravans and caravan guards, then move to mule trains as you get to rougher terrain, then porters and torchbearers inside the dungeon itself. I'd play the hex and counter version, but turn it into a campaign-based boardgame and my old Hackmaster group would go apeshit for it.
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Mar 11, 2018 22:32
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Zurui posted:FFG will produce a revolutionary, interesting take on D&D with new mechanics. It'll be another bad d% game that exists purely as an excuse to sell overpriced custom dice with really badly-designed symbols on them.
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Mar 11, 2018 22:39
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spectralent posted:also LFQW is just "I have fun when other people have less fun". Yeah, sure, people who like playing wizards probably love it but I imagine the pool of people who really want to have to sit on their hands for four hours and get told all their fun ideas are impossible while Dave conjours his eleventh platinum half-demon orca to trivially save everyone is probably much smaller. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw
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Mar 11, 2018 22:45
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Kai Tave posted:I don't think it actually benefits a game to try and cater to both, to go for the stereotypical example, someone who's really invested in the game and consequently knows how to exploit the hell out of all the tools at their disposal and the guy who shows up just to drink beer and occasionally hit stuff with an axe when he remembers it's his turn. The Forge days of hyper-targeted games aimed at an extremely specific game experience to meet a very defined play agenda gave us lots of lovingly-designed indie games which it ended up being absolute hell to sell a group on playing. If you want to see your game get widespread actual play then you need to design it for a range of tastes and levels of engagement because the odds of everyone in a gaming group liking exactly the same thing are pretty long.
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Mar 11, 2018 23:01
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Alien Rope Burn posted:That's also, IMO, why light storygames struggle to gain dominance. They require so much less buy-in and so much less time that they're discardable.
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Mar 11, 2018 23:11
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Bedlamdan posted:Okay so after a lot of thinking: Pathfinder is better than D&D 5E, because I can play Pugmire on Pathfinder and not D&D 5E
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Mar 11, 2018 23:17
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ProfessorCirno posted:AD&D combat was not assumed to use a grid. It assumed you used minis and a ruler, but even then, it wasn't that important. That's because pre-3e D&D was a dungeon crawler through and through (though this also gets more true the farther back you go; by 2e, it was trying to shed that a lot). I'd argue 2e made the biggest change here simply by removing the "1 gp = 1 xp" rule. That rule really emphasized that getting the treasure was the priority, everything else was incidental, whereas 2e wanted to be less "Monty Haul". The problem being, the awards for non-combat XP were kept vague so combat became the main source of XP (and the 2e DMG even says that story/quest XP shouldn't be as high as combat XP), and with low level characters still being super fragile this meant slow progression, as anyone who ever played Baldur's Gate can attest.
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Mar 11, 2018 23:27
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Lemon-Lime posted:It'll be another bad d% game that exists purely as an excuse to sell overpriced custom dice with really badly-designed symbols on them. I think it can only be one of those things unless they're gonna think up a *lot* of symbols
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Mar 11, 2018 23:28
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Warthur posted:The Forge days of hyper-targeted games aimed at an extremely specific game experience to meet a very defined play agenda gave us lots of lovingly-designed indie games which it ended up being absolute hell to sell a group on playing. If you want to see your game get widespread actual play then you need to design it for a range of tastes and levels of engagement because the odds of everyone in a gaming group liking exactly the same thing are pretty long. I think the fallacy here is assuming that a game needs to be a market leader to be good; the one upside of RPG-as-hobby is that there's now enough games out there that people shouldn't have to settle for acceptably-lovely games.
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Mar 11, 2018 23:52
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The problem is it needs to be a market leader so I can have anyone to play it with.
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Mar 12, 2018 00:21
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remusclaw posted:The problem is it needs to be a market leader so I can have anyone to play it with. Trying to convince people to play a fantasy RPG that isn't D&D or Path is like trying to convince a child than some off brand superhero toy is just as good as their Superman or Iron Man action figure.
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Mar 12, 2018 01:30
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Xelkelvos posted:Trying to convince people to play a fantasy RPG that isn't D&D or Path is like trying to convince a child than some off brand superhero toy is just as good as their Superman or Iron Man action figure. So what, you saying that non D&D/Pathfinder games are crap that's full of chinese lead paint?
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Mar 12, 2018 01:35
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Xelkelvos posted:Trying to convince people to play a fantasy RPG that isn't D&D or Path is like trying to convince a child than some off brand superhero toy is just as good as their Superman or Iron Man action figure. it's not hard to do with licensed properties, people are generally down with Star Wars or Call of Cthulu in my experience
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Mar 12, 2018 01:40
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Warthur posted:Isn't that exactly the reverse, Pugmire being based on the 5E OGL? I hosed UP AGAIN
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Mar 12, 2018 01:46
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Plutonis posted:So what, you saying that non D&D/Pathfinder games are crap that's full of chinese lead paint? I was originally gonna make a comparison to hole-in-the-wall restaurants and chains, but I felt that might've been too much of a stretch.
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Mar 12, 2018 01:46
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remusclaw posted:The problem is it needs to be a market leader so I can have anyone to play it with.
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Mar 12, 2018 01:49
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"I'm terrible at communicating to other humans, or providing simple pitches explaining why these legacy games are bloated messes and more modern games are available within the same genre but with more accessible rules, which is why Pathfinder must continue to exist, you see."
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Mar 12, 2018 02:02
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spectralent posted:I think the fallacy here is assuming that a game needs to be a market leader to be good; the one upside of RPG-as-hobby is that there's now enough games out there that people shouldn't have to settle for acceptably-lovely games.
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Mar 12, 2018 02:11
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"Why I don't like your favorite game and why mine is better" has never really been a winning pitch.
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Mar 12, 2018 02:19
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remusclaw posted:"Why I don't like your favorite game and why mine is better" has never really been a winning pitch. I assume there must be a way to explain stuff to people who want to try a new game that doesn't involve a breathless rant about how terrible everything is, but I have also grown into my couch so it's hard to go outside and test this
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Mar 12, 2018 02:38
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Nuns with Guns posted:I assume there must be a way to explain stuff to people who want to try a new game that doesn't involve a breathless rant about how terrible everything is, but I have also grown into my couch so it's hard to go outside and test this Yeah, but as someone else put a bit differently, you gotta put the time in with folks playing the popular games before they like you enough to listen when you tell them that there is a better way. Last gaming group I played with put me off of them before the game did. But well, no gaming before bad gaming, I suppose.
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Mar 12, 2018 02:47
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How’s XCOM? Someone is trying to get me to play it by comparing it to space alert but I read it has dice rolling. E: oops wrong thread Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 02:53
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remusclaw posted:Yeah, but as someone else put a bit differently, you gotta put the time in with folks playing the popular games before they like you enough to listen when you tell them that there is a better way. Last gaming group I played with put me off of them before the game did. But well, no gaming before bad gaming, I suppose. Yea, that's the issue. There's massive inertia in most groups, and by the time you actually get anything that's not popular to the table, it's expected to light up the sky and dance with the angels.
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Mar 12, 2018 02:54
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hyphz posted:Yea, that's the issue. There's massive inertia in most groups, and by the time you actually get anything that's not popular to the table, it's expected to light up the sky and dance with the angels. My old group ended up having three go-to games: 3.x with all of the trimmings, RIFTS, or this 4X game based on a tumorous mass that used to be GURPS at one point in the distant past. I couldn't even get through an opening pitch for something like Gamma World, let alone Apocalypse World.
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Mar 12, 2018 03:28
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My 4e game group is open to other systems: most of them are also playing in a side game of 13th Age that I'd like to join but just don't have time. When our current campaign ends in a few months there's talk of starting up Numenera, which, y'know, points for not being D&D but god dammit. Most gamers around here are pretty stuck on D&D5e, or Pathfinder. I know there's a local Star Wars community but it seems hard to track down: X-Wing, Armada, and Destiny seem way more common than the RPG since it's more focused on FLGSs. The internet ought to make this sort of thing easier, but it doesn't seem to.
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Mar 12, 2018 04:17
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Xelkelvos posted:Trying to convince people to play a fantasy RPG that isn't D&D or Path is like trying to convince a child than some off brand superhero toy is just as good as their Superman or Iron Man action figure. Honestly even seeing who'd be interested in trying Pathfinder has gotten me some weird looks from friends.
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Mar 12, 2018 05:14
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For my long running group I would have a special “Halloween Episode” each year where “forces beyond space and time would warp reality” and i’d have rolled up all their characters in a different system - FATE, DW, 13A, etc. It was a gentle but effective way to get them to try things outside of D20. Our next campaign’s GM decided to try running HeroQuest. This is my success story.
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Mar 12, 2018 06:21
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I started an AD&D campaign in TYOOL 2016 but every few weeks I'd let the other players run something else, with them as the GM, to break up the monotony. After doing V:TM 20th Anniversary and Tenra Bansho Zero, we ditched AD&D entirely.
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Mar 12, 2018 06:41
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Warthur posted:Oh, absolutely a game doesn't need to be a market leader to be good - but PF2 needs to be a market leader if it isn't going to be a commercial disappointment compared to PF1. What would be a perfectly acceptable sales figure - or even a massive hit - by the standards of an indie publisher or small press would be a catastrophic failure for Paizo. Yeah, but as stated earlier, even if mcdonalds acting like mcdonalds is entirely rational, I'm still going to dunk on it for being mcdonalds.
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Mar 12, 2018 08:51
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Paolomania posted:For my long running group I would have a special “Halloween Episode” each year where “forces beyond space and time would warp reality” and i’d have rolled up all their characters in a different system - FATE, DW, 13A, etc. It was a gentle but effective way to get them to try things outside of D20. Our next campaign’s GM decided to try running HeroQuest. This is my success story. Hey this is a super good idea
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Mar 12, 2018 08:58
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spectralent posted:Yeah, but as stated earlier, even if mcdonalds acting like mcdonalds is entirely rational, I'm still going to dunk on it for being mcdonalds.
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Mar 12, 2018 09:35
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I finished reading the old thread and this one: or all the talk about D&D being viable as a brand, I'm less and less convinced that that is the case. D&D doesn't really bring anything to the table like other dead revived brands have done, since it just doesn't have that much unique things or recognizable characters. It probably doesn't help that of the fantasy worlds attached to D&D, the most generic ones get most of the attention. That's why I don't think that there's ever going to be a successful D&D movie. Sure, something like Transformers got big all of a sudden but for every Transformers, there's a thousand brands that simply stay dead forever.
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Mar 12, 2018 11:01
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Kemper Boyd posted:I finished reading the old thread and this one: These are two separate things. D&D as a brand has a lot of strength--it's a recognizable part of the broader pop culture. If you say "tabletop role-playing games" to someone out of the know, you'll get a blank stare, but if you say "Dungeons and Dragons," most people will have an inkling of what you're talking about. Now, you can argue if its brand is a double-edged sword in that regard, but D&D is strong enough as a brand that it still acts as the gateway game to TT RPGs for most people. When it comes to making a movie though, you're right that there's nothing there--not only are the generic D&D worlds the ones that get most of the attention, but the nature of the product does not lend itself well to a movie plot. D&D isn't a narrative, it's a rules framework with a lot of optional setting elements. So any D&D movie is likely to feel like a generic fantasy adventure film, just with beholders. And it's not like sword + sorcery fantasy films have ever seen a ton of success to begin with, outside of Conan and the LotR films.
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Mar 12, 2018 14:24
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I don't know if these have been there for a while and only just slipped through my adblocker or something but  DTRPG have some customer testimonials on the checkout screen now? I'm sure unnamed customers have definitely said that about DTRPG, that sounds completely legitimate.
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Mar 12, 2018 16:03
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remusclaw posted:Yeah, but as someone else put a bit differently, you gotta put the time in with folks playing the popular games before they like you enough to listen when you tell them that there is a better way. Last gaming group I played with put me off of them before the game did. But well, no gaming before bad gaming, I suppose. I dunno I've never had trouble getting people to play different games, but I'm usually the GM in whatever gaming group I play with. It probably also helps that most people I game with aren't hardcore lifetime D&D players with deep personal investment in the system. I'm sure you'd have a similar problem getting a group that's ultra-deep into the Old World of Darkness setting and system to try out something else. Maybe it's a good reason to pull in new people who haven't sunk a lot of money and emotional energy into their library of wizard tomes?
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Mar 12, 2018 16:08
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Lemon-Lime posted:I don't know if these have been there for a while and only just slipped through my adblocker or something but I AM CONSUMING MORE MATERIALS FROM YOUR SERVICE ALL PUBLISHERS SHOULD WANT THEIR MATERIALS CONSUMED FROM THIS SERVICE (otoh, if anyone’s actually going to write like that it’s an rpg.pdf buyer)
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Mar 12, 2018 16:17
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Lemon-Lime posted:
It’s me, the person who was going to amazon to buy game books. e: And didn’t use amazon for anything else.
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Mar 12, 2018 16:18
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Lemon-Lime posted:I don't know if these have been there for a while and only just slipped through my adblocker or something but
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Mar 12, 2018 16:23
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It's a really good way to make the customer panic and wonder if something's wrong and the site or their browser has been hijacked by something. Really enhances those boring steps midway through checking out and buying your elfgame.
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Mar 12, 2018 16:24
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TheChirurgeon posted:When it comes to making a movie though, you're right that there's nothing there--not only are the generic D&D worlds the ones that get most of the attention, but the nature of the product does not lend itself well to a movie plot. D&D isn't a narrative, it's a rules framework with a lot of optional setting elements. So any D&D movie is likely to feel like a generic fantasy adventure film, just with beholders. And it's not like sword + sorcery fantasy films have ever seen a ton of success to begin with, outside of Conan and the LotR films. We are living in a timeline where GotG, with even less of a household name than D&D, made “generic party-based science fantasy” into a blockbuster franchise.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:21
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