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TTerrible
Jul 15, 2005

Yeast posted:

Fedora servitor

m'spreadsheet.

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tallkidwithglasses
Feb 7, 2006

Milotic posted:

Some of you are so lame with your reaction to the Armiger. It’s a fast moving Knight that has a freaking Chainsword and is often piloted by the bastard illegitimate offspring of Nobles, eager to prove their worth and bloodline. And you get two of them so they can hunt in packs. It rocks.

Actually you're the lame one, no one plays this game because the models look cool and are fun to paint, the only way to enjoy things is relentless mathammering of primaris lists for adepticon.

Hixson
Mar 27, 2009

Yeast posted:

Fedora servitor

:master:

Artum
Feb 13, 2012

DUN da dun dun da DUUUN
Soiled Meat

Liquid Communism posted:

It might change if/when the Wolves get stratagems, but at this point there's no reason to care what detachment my Dread's in.

I was thinking more that the rest of my army wasnt going to keep up with the robot motoring across the field at 14" a turn :v:

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

TTerrible posted:

This is the worst example in the world to use. Booley posted a list with his newly painted awesome knight and got told it wasn't optimal lmao

Beep boop why are you taking the knight it is non-optimal. it is painted? we are very proud but back to ur list boop beep

What's your point? That I shouldn't like something because I talk a lot about efficiency and optimal models? The example was the Astraeus, not the Knight, and in that case I believe my personal response was "I really hope this works because I'd love a reason to field that model." On a lark I read through Booley's posts and the ones he responded to, and I didn't see a single post criticizing the Knight. Maybe there were others but gently caress trying to navigate these forums. Most of the criticisms I read were about ways to change the rest of his list to make it better against hordes by adding Death Company and tweaking characters.

And even if what you say is true, so what? Someone posts a list for criticism and gets appropriate feedback. In a vacuum a Knight is a sub-optimal choice, especially compared to Shadowswords. That doesn't stop people from playing them, and in my case it hasn't stopped me from thinking of buying a Knight Errant and a pair of the smaller Knights since it seems like a quick way to paint up 1000 points worth of cool models.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

Hamshot posted:

I'm sure someone posting a list with their newly painted knight feel delight when the advice they get back is "drop the knight".

It's not exactly impossible to retool a knight to work as multiple types of knight, especially since all that usually changes is their weapons. Hell considering the amount of build required for knights it's pretty typical to magnetize them.

Plus y'know, nobody can force him to drop it and there exist multiple conflicting posters ITT that can have different opinions on stuff. You're even stepping on someone who puts literally days of hours into his painting because he likes to talk about strategy and theorycrafting. He's even the source of the primaris list chat you seem to hate.

Hustlin Floh
Jul 20, 2009

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

TTerrible posted:

m'spreadsheet.

Mi'lady Inquisitor (with giant exposed taters)

Kung Fu Fist Fuck
Aug 9, 2009
if you arent writing out the average wounds per attack to the third decimal place instead of rounding to the nearest whole like a normal person then get the heck outta my face

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

Yeast posted:

Fedora servitor

I now feel compelled to make a servo skull with a fedora.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

Neurolimal posted:

He's even the source of the primaris list chat you seem to hate.

My list is for NOVA. Completely different.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

Artum posted:

I was thinking more that the rest of my army wasnt going to keep up with the robot motoring across the field at 14" a turn :v:

Babyknights and Custodes Jetbikes. Problem solved.

TTerrible
Jul 15, 2005

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

What's your point? That I shouldn't like something because I talk a lot about efficiency and optimal models? The example was the Astraeus, not the Knight, and in that case I believe my personal response was "I really hope this works because I'd love a reason to field that model." On a lark I read through Booley's posts and the ones he responded to, and I didn't see a single post criticizing the Knight. Maybe there were others but gently caress trying to navigate these forums. Most of the criticisms I read were about ways to change the rest of his list to make it better against hordes by adding Death Company and tweaking characters.

And even if what you say is true, so what? Someone posts a list for criticism and gets appropriate feedback. In a vacuum a Knight is a sub-optimal choice, especially compared to Shadowswords. That doesn't stop people from playing them, and in my case it hasn't stopped me from thinking of buying a Knight Errant and a pair of the smaller Knights since it seems like a quick way to paint up 1000 points worth of cool models.

My point is that people were clutching pearls when it was suggested that the thread puts mathammer above cool models and I gave an example of that happening in the last week or so. :shrug:

I await some kind of devastating own from Corrode. If U can't take the HEAT get out of the thread! play like you got a pair! etc

Hamshot
Feb 1, 2006
Fun Shoe

Neurolimal posted:

He's even the source of the primaris list chat you seem to hate.

I think you're confusing me with someone else?

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

Hamshot posted:

I think you're confusing me with someone else?

Yeah my bad, point remains though; there isn't really any friction between people who love to paint and people excited that 40k is actually playable and almost balanced.

Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Mar 12, 2018

TTerrible
Jul 15, 2005

Neurolimal posted:

actually playable and almost balanced.




BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009




Soiled Meat
Hey you toxxic 30k players, get back into the 30k thread. This is the 41k thread, where the Emperior is alive again and his marines are 20% larger

Hamshot
Feb 1, 2006
Fun Shoe

Neurolimal posted:

Yeah my bad, point remains though; there isn't really any friction between people who love to paint and people excited that 40k is actually playable and almost balanced.

Maybe if people weren't mathing a cool model before even knowing its points cost. It gave the impression that the thread would decry the new baby knight completely as poo poo (for either being too cheap or too expensive) if it didn't hit the threads predetermined perfect points value.

TheChirurgeon
Aug 7, 2002

Remember how good you are
Taco Defender

BULBASAUR posted:

Hey you toxxic 30k players, get back into the 30k thread. This is the 41k thread, where the Emperior is alive again and his marines are 20% larger

Oh Bulbasaur, will you ever stop being mad about templates?

TTerrible
Jul 15, 2005

TheChirurgeon posted:

Oh Bulbasaur, will you ever stop being mad about templates?

Now you've done it. You can't take it to that place.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

To be fair they're one of a handful of problem units and easily the standout, it's all but been guaranteed that they're going to eat a nerf. Aside from them the biggest balance issues are just "some of these models are too cheap/expensive" , "Imperium regenerates too much CP", and "we should probably rebalance flyrants now that tyranids aren't a joke army"


Hamshot posted:

Maybe if people weren't mathing a cool model before even knowing its points cost. It gave the impression that the thread would decry the new baby knight completely as poo poo (for either being too cheap or too expensive) if it didn't hit the threads predetermined perfect points value.

I obviously cant speak for everyone, but I for one will by hype to see them alongside admech's other crazy mech units, irregardless of cost.

E: speaking of lists, on a scale of -10 to 0 how bad an idea is this?


quote:

++ Fortification Network (Imperium - Space Marines) [6 PL, 110pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Iron Hands

+ Fortification +

Skyshield Landing Pad [6 PL, 110pts]

++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Space Marines) [21 PL, 389pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Iron Hands

+ HQ +

Techmarine on Bike [7 PL, 123pts]: Chainsword, Combi-flamer, The Armour Indomitus, Twin boltgun
. Servo-harness: Flamer, Plasma cutter, 2x Servo-arm

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 92pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Storm bolter
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

+ Flyer +

Stormtalon Gunship [9 PL, 174pts]: Twin assault cannon, Two Heavy Bolters

++ Total: [27 PL, 499pts] ++

Concept is thus: helipad stuck somewhere in decent range of objectives, applying its invulnerable save to the tactical marines taking pot shots, stormtalon flies around being a dick, getting repaired by the tech marine and, if need be, the helipad. Techmarine drives to objectives and blends stuff with his clown car of guns.

I'm mostly just concerned by a lack of map presence.

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



Neurolimal posted:

(Celestine, who you can only permanently kill through a very intricate series of events and has two bodyguards you need to kill first who she can resurrect each turn)
This sounds hilarious, how intricate are we talking here?

Bombogenesis
Mar 27, 2010

Mekkatorque 2016
Dinosaur Gum
Oh my god you're all terrible. Please give me advice so I can be terrible too.

Bombogenesis posted:

Dork Eldar players, should I grab Mandrakes or Incubi for a deep striking melee blob? Custodes have me wanting to try it with other armies. Or Hellions I guess, since I actually have those.

Shameless self quote for new page. :toot:

Has anyone actually tried Hellions in 8th to any degree of success? I like the models but they're so...not good. Which is a shame since Gangs of Commoragh is still a great value :smith:

TTerrible
Jul 15, 2005

Neurolimal posted:

To be fair they're one of a handful of problem units and easily the standout, it's all but been guaranteed that they're going to eat a nerf.

You must have large hands.

Thankyou for not doubling down. You are a good ham.

Artum
Feb 13, 2012

DUN da dun dun da DUUUN
Soiled Meat

Xenomrph posted:

This sounds hilarious, how intricate are we talking here?

Every turn she can either resurrect a bodyguard or heal herself for a few wounds, and on top of that acts of faith can also bring back her guards, so since she comes back in a 2+ even if you do manage to kill her at the start of the sisters' turn they can get both her guards back putting her on at least 5/11 wounds and impossible to one-shot.

Strobe
Jun 30, 2014
GW BRAINWORMS CREW
Man, whole lotta people salty in this thread about how other people have fun. :shrug:

After some consideration, I've decided to remove all drones (except the Commander's, because character shielding while deep striking is Really Important, and would be worth bringing drones for even if they were ~30 points each) and replace them with more infantry. To accommodate that I had to mix up the Stealth suits into one team, and dropped one in the process. That loses me one of my Fusion Blasters, but of all things I think this list has a reasonable expectation of dealing with heavy armor is pretty up there on the list. Especially with that Commander.

The plasma rifles on the Broadsides were replaced with smart missile systems mostly to keep weight of fire high because Flavivirus was absolutely right and good invuln high wounds was going to wreck me as posted before. I feel like I should be worried about the durability of my suits, but then I realized that all of them (literally all of them) are going to average a 2+ save, and all of the ones I'm worried about drawing anti-tank firepower have good invulns of 4+ or better.

I think the weak link in a Tau gunline is the fragility of the infantry, so hopefully adding half again the previous amount will go a long way toward keeping them alive to late game, where having enough bodies to hold objectives is a real issue.

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Bork'an Sept) [32 PL, 633pts] ++

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade [2 PL, 42pts]: Markerlight

Ethereal [3 PL, 50pts]: Honour blade, Hover Drone

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 122pts]
. 6x Pathfinder: 6x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
. 3x Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: 3x Rail rifle

Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 122pts]
. 6x Pathfinder: 6x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
. 3x Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: 3x Rail rifle

Pathfinder Team [6 PL, 122pts]
. 6x Pathfinder: 6x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
. 3x Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: 3x Rail rifle

+ Troops +

Breacher Team [3 PL, 35pts]: 5x Fire Warrior

Strike Team [3 PL, 70pts]: 10x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 70pts]: 10x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Bork'an Sept) [14 PL, 267pts] ++

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade [2 PL, 42pts]: Markerlight

Ethereal [3 PL, 50pts]: Honour blade, Hover Drone

+ Troops +

Breacher Team [3 PL, 35pts]: 5x Fire Warrior

Strike Team [3 PL, 70pts]: 10x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 70pts]: 10x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Dal'yth Sept) [71 PL, 1100pts] ++

+ Heavy Support +

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits [18 PL, 279pts]
. Broadside Shas'ui: 2x Smart missile system, Heavy rail rifle
. Broadside Shas'vre: 2x Smart missile system, Heavy rail rifle, Shield generator, Seeker missile

+ HQ +

Commander in XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit [8 PL, 206pts]: 4x Fusion blaster, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

+ Elites +

XV104 Riptide Battlesuit [17 PL, 282pts]: 2x Plasma rifle, Ion accelerator, Velocity tracker

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [6 PL, 156pts]
. 4x Stealth Shas'ui w/o support system: 4x Burst cannon
. Stealth Shas'vre: Fusion blaster

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit [10 PL, 177pts]: 2x Burst cannon, Advanced targeting system, Cyclic ion raker, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Shield generator

++ Total: [117 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Strobe fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Mar 13, 2018

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

Xenomrph posted:

This sounds hilarious, how intricate are we talking here?

Well, before even getting to her death she has a 4+ invulnerable save and 7 (!) Wounds (most long ranged stuff applies one wound), as well as Shield of Faith's 6+ invuln save which I think stacks, and if she's your warlord she can get Tenacious Survivor (roll a die when she is wounded, on a 6 she doesn't receive the wound).

Additionally, a battle-forged (aka entire detachment is one faction) SoB detachment can use acts of faith, which includes an act that can either recover up to 3 wounds or resurrect a model in the casters' unit and give them one wound.

Additionally, 8th edition has a Character rule; specific character models cannot be targeted unless they are the nearest visible unit. Which means most of the time, when a single Geminae is alive, the only thing that can hit her is whatever she's stabbing.

When she DOES die, her rez kicks in: roll a die, and any result that's not a 1 means she comes back to life near a surviving Geminae Superia (her two bodyguards) with all wounds back and no kill credit. If no Geminae are alive then she can be placed anywhere on the table 9 inches away from enemies (you can use this to your advantage to have her sneak up on different targets, as she can fly around with 12 inches of movement). It's only on a roll of 1 that she actually dies (even then for fluff purposes she's actually "needed elsewhere" :v:) and gives kill credit. As a result actually killing Celestine is a terrible idea because it just means she teleports around 80+% of the time, so instead the optimal choice is to find a way to debuff her so she's not an ungodly hulk, which isn't that common, especially for melee.

On top of this, she can resurrect a geminae each turn without an act of faith. All of this immortality comes at a cost of course - 200 points for Celestine, 25 points for each geminae (up to 2). For comparison the price point for the babyknight being hoped for is 150pts.

Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Mar 13, 2018

One_Wing
Feb 19, 2012

Handsome, sophisticated space elves.
Eldar tournament list after-action report/review.

Full list is here.

Short version:
Biel Tan Brigade
  • Farseer w/ Wing relic, doom, guide, Biel Tan trait.
  • spiritseer w/ spirit stone relic (via strat), protect/jinx
  • warlock w/quicken
  • 4x5 dire avengers
  • 8x storm guardians
  • 5x rangers
  • 5x howling banshees
  • 7x striking scorpions
  • 5x fire dragons
  • 2x5 swooping hawks
  • 3x shining spears
  • 5x Dark Reapers
  • 2x Fire Prisms
  • 1x Crimson Hunter Exarch
  • 2x Wave Serpents (one lances, one cannons)

Units

Farseer: They’re great and you should always take one. The BT trait and the wing combo super nicely, allowing you to redeploy to buff the unit that needs it most, or in Maelstrom help to pull off a priority orders received. You can also mess around with dashing your farseer forward to get off a doom, then using quicken to pull them back (if you’re feeling a bit daring or it’s critical). I rolled absolutely abysmally on psychic tests all weekend (I think I failed 3/4 dooms on Sunday, with using the farseer rerolls on all the failures), but still found him useful.

Spiritseer/Warlock: started using the Biel Tan reroll relic on this after hearing Nick Naniavatti talk about it and yeah, it’s really good (especially if you can’t roll a psychic test to save your life). Still unsure which way round I should have the powers - on the one hand, my army really likes landing jinx, but on the other sometimes you really need to land quicken. Quicken is also potentially better to have on the spiritseer, as it lets you do a full smite on the turns where it isn’t needed. However, putting a relic on a warlock feels like a waste. Still undecided here, may also just want to find 10 points to bump warlock up to a second seer.

Dire Avengers: nice to have in lots of small units, but having to deploy 3/4 in the open most games was very painful, especially on low cover tables. Still outmurder what opponents tend to expect, and the 4++ on the exarch still catches people out when you use it to face tank Plasma level firepower.

Storm Guardians Swapped in for another DA unit in an earlier iteration of the list as a cheaper screening unit with more bodies. Did not regret decision, they make a good screen. Especially pleased with my use of them in game 1 - the 8 bodies was enough to create a “field” where some Seraphim wanted to act of faith move to inferno pistol my fire prism, and successfully blocked the option off. Tended to either draw a bit of firepower off my dire avengers and die messily, or survive surprisingly long and pull off useful harassment. Definitely a keeper.

Rangers Screen pt 2 - pretty much as above, frequently died early and bloodily, but usually drew some relevant aggro while doing so, and ObSecced objective nicely in games they didn’t.

Howling Banshees Heavily overperformed, almost always managed to pull off a relevant charge to either lock down overwatch while the spears came in, or to tie up a shooty ground unit. In all cases, then drew absurd overkill levels of firepower from opponents determined not to let them do it again. Only time they weren’t doing this was the time they got the last tap on Magnus, which I’ll also take. A++ would recommend exactly one 5 banshee squad in any army that can store them in a serpent (they can’t kill stuff for poo poo, so no more than that).

Striking Scorpions: hadn’t had a chance to test these much, and they overperformed on my expectations. The Biel Tan strategem let them drop in and make a charge almost every game, at which point they did pretty much more of what the banshees were doing, which is harassing and tying up units. Will be dropping at least one model to free up points though - they kill slightly more than the banshees simply because Snippy Boi can pinch exposed characters to death, but still aren’t that murderous, and will still fulfil their function at 5/6 models. Would not recommend outside of Biel Tan, they need the strategem to be reliable harassers.

Fire Dragons Underperformed. Too many relevant targets have an invuln save, and you are paying through the teeth for that AP -4. Even a 5+ invuln takes their reliability down soooo much, and you can really only rely on one turn of shooting with them before they get horrendously murdered. Only really excelled in the game where they stripped 9 wounds off Magnus, and that was an outrageous high roll given his invuln was buffed to 3++ at the time.

Swooping Hawks Great as always. Cheap, will put a good few wounds onto horde units, grab objectives and emergency screen like champs. Can join in on hellmurdering something that’s doom/jinxed. Can charge tanks to tie them up for a turn.

Shining Spears Amazing in any game where I got the first turn or the opponent didn’t have big ranged firepower to throw at them, drew plenty of firepower before going down in other games. I like them either in massive blobs where you can buff their resilience OR in a small unit like this because the exarch is so much more of a beast than the rest of the unit. In the thousand suns game, exarch lived on one wound after a daemon prince killed the rest of the squad, and cheerfully used feigned retreat to pop behind an exalted sorcerer, blast him with the lance in shooting then charge and murder him. Almost certainly getting the nerf bat, so may be moot point.

Dark Reapers Dark Reapers are a very good unit,

Fire Prisms Fire prisms are great. They do suffer slightly from the same problem that fire dragons have of paying a lot to have access to AP-4/5, but make up for it by being able to zap units from across the map, and murder heavy infantry too. I ran mine with shuriken catapults, because in my test games it hadn’t made much difference - this was a mistake, and there were plenty of times where an extra 12 of range on a few shuriken shots could have made a difference. -1 scorp will pay for this on these two and the lance serpent (I had 2 pts in hand)

Wave Serpents Wave Serpents are a very good unit.

Crimson Hunter Exarch My beautiful strong murder plane. Exarch buff is totally worth the 15 pts, I found.

Overall List held up better than I’d dared to hope when dropped into a serious competitive environment. However, had three key problems:

  • Fire Dragons aren’t well placed in the meta right now. They need to be able to reliably outmurder their cost in their first round of shooting, and there are too many invuln saves around that can just shut them down.
  • Deploying three units of foot slogging DAs is not viable on tournament tables. My local club and home table have a lot more area cover than the tournament ones did, so I’m used to being able to deploy these in cover, not being able to was super bad. Notably, it meant that the “horde” army I faced could heavily degrade my anti-horde capability when they got the first turn.
  • I appear to have exactly one too many drops for the meta. My list can go as low as 14 by party bussing the wave serpents, but 13-14 seems to be the average number, and I got unlucky and had to deploy second against both the 14s. I finished deploying first in 1/5 games, if I’d had just one fewer drop that would have gone to 4/5.

The challenge is that I still want to be a brigade, as I want lots of CP and Eldar don’t have access to a bullshit CP relic like seemingly every other faction, which gives limited flexibility for moving things round. Surprisingly, I’ve still managed to come up with a plan that works.

The Bonesinger might be a bit overcosted, but he’s unique in the Eldar list for being an “elite” single character. Elite is happily the slot the fire dragons are in, and the bonesinger is 50 pts less, and importantly can increase my party bussing count by 1, getting me down to 13 drops as my minimum. It also frees up a “Unit” slot in a wave serpent for one of the dire avenger units.

I can then spend that 50 pts turning the dire avengers without the dual gun exarch into a 12 + platform guardian defender unit that I can webway strike (using my other floating point to make up for 111 rather than 110 total). That reduces the amount of my non-screen units that are vulnerable t1, and shores up my anti horde a bit by adding more shurikens that can pop in and ruin something’s day.

Heck I could potentially even make the bonesinger the warlord and have him hang back with the reapers, letting my farseer swap guide(which I mostly cast on the dragons) to executioner and go out to really brawl.

Overall that leaves
- 1 striking scorpion
- 5 dire avengers
- 5 fire dragons

+ 3 shuriken cannon upgrades
+12 guardian defenders + shuriken platform
+ 1 Bonesinger

That’s my rough thinking for what I’m going to test swapping around leading up to the London Grand Tournament, though I’m likely going to wait for the balance update before testing in earnest (I’m somewhat hopeful that I’m not going to get too shafted given my low reaper/spear count but we’ll see).

Edit: on, I guess also if the tesseract vault is as hilariously overpowered as it looks I might have to pack the whole thing in and come up with something completely different, because I’m not clear how this army really beats one (it’s fine against other good LOWs).

One_Wing fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Mar 13, 2018

Groetgaffel
Oct 30, 2011

Groetgaffel smacked the living shit out of himself doing 297 points of damage.
These baby knights and my general love for stompy robots makes me want to get a Knight army.

Artum
Feb 13, 2012

DUN da dun dun da DUUUN
Soiled Meat
Pleased with how my Ancients coming together, I wanted one that was less passive than the dark imperium one and I ended up with one planting the standard a lot more firmly into the ground.

Strobe
Jun 30, 2014
GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Neurolimal posted:

Well, before even getting to her death she has a 4+ invulnerable save and 7 (!) Wounds (most long ranged stuff applies one wound), as well as Shield of Faith's 6+ invuln save which I think stacks, and if she's your warlord she can get Tenacious Survivor (roll a die when she is wounded, on a 6 she doesn't receive the wound).

Long range weapons encompass things like "Autocannons", "Lascannons", and "Missile Launchers" so I have absolutely no clue where you got that conception from.

Invulns don't stack.

Loses a wound, not is wounded. So that Lascannon that rolled a 6 prompts six separate checks, and each fail is a point of damage still taken.

Neurolimal posted:

Additionally, a battle-forged (aka entire detachment is one faction) SoB detachment can use acts of faith, which includes an act that can either recover up to 3 wounds or resurrect a model in the casters' unit and give them one wound.

Additionally, 8th edition has a Character rule; specific character models cannot be targeted unless they are the nearest visible unit. Which means most of the time, when a single Geminae is alive, the only thing that can hit her is whatever she's stabbing.

This part is mostly accurate, though the placement of the Geminae does matter a lot.

Neurolimal posted:

When she DOES die, her rez kicks in: roll a die, and any result that's not a 1 means she comes back to life near a surviving Geminae Superia (her two bodyguards) with all wounds back and no kill credit. If no Geminae are alive then she can be placed anywhere on the table 9 inches away from enemies (you can use this to your advantage to have her sneak up on different targets, as she can fly around with 12 inches of movement). It's only on a roll of 1 that she actually dies (even then for fluff purposes she's actually "needed elsewhere" :v:) and gives kill credit. As a result actually killing Celestine is a terrible idea because it just means she teleports around 80+% of the time, so instead the optimal choice is to find a way to debuff her so she's not an ungodly hulk, which isn't that common, especially for melee.

On top of this, she can resurrect a geminae each turn without an act of faith. All of this immortality comes at a cost of course - 200 points for Celestine, 25 points for each geminae (up to 2). For comparison the price point for the babyknight being hoped for is 150pts.
[/quote]

The first time she dies this happens. If you kill her again she's just gone. It's a once per game trigger.

And none of that really touches on how she's still just a human, and her magnificent T3 is going to have her opponent rolling on 2s to wound with almost anything and everything.

It's not that Celestine isn't good - she totally is. She's just not this mythic abomination of impossible to kill that you're making it sound like. Geminae can be mulched like nobodies at whatever range you want them to be and they aren't particularly tough. After that Celestine is a slightly higher wound count than normal captain with jump pack.

Giant Isopod
Jan 30, 2010

Bathynomus giganteus
Yams Fan

Neurolimal posted:

Well, before even getting to her death she has a 4+ invulnerable save and 7 (!) Wounds (most long ranged stuff applies one wound), as well as Shield of Faith's 6+ invuln save which I think stacks, and if she's your warlord she can get Tenacious Survivor (roll a die when she is wounded, on a 6 she doesn't receive the wound).

Additionally, a battle-forged (aka entire detachment is one faction) SoB detachment can use acts of faith, which includes an act that can either recover up to 3 wounds or resurrect a model in the casters' unit and give them one wound.

Additionally, 8th edition has a Character rule; specific character models cannot be targeted unless they are the nearest visible unit. Which means most of the time, when a single Geminae is alive, the only thing that can hit her is whatever she's stabbing.

When she DOES die, her rez kicks in: roll a die, and any result that's not a 1 means she comes back to life near a surviving Geminae Superia (her two bodyguards) with all wounds back and no kill credit. If no Geminae are alive then she can be placed anywhere on the table 9 inches away from enemies (you can use this to your advantage to have her sneak up on different targets, as she can fly around with 12 inches of movement). It's only on a roll of 1 that she actually dies (even then for fluff purposes she's actually "needed elsewhere" :v:) and gives kill credit. As a result actually killing Celestine is a terrible idea because it just means she teleports around 80+% of the time, so instead the optimal choice is to find a way to debuff her so she's not an ungodly hulk, which isn't that common, especially for melee.

On top of this, she can resurrect a geminae each turn without an act of faith. All of this immortality comes at a cost of course - 200 points for Celestine, 25 points for each geminae (up to 2). For comparison the price point for the babyknight being hoped for is 150pts.

Shield of faith is a regular 6+ invuln so it doesn't stack with her 4+; the only thing shield of faith gets her is the babby's first deny the witch.

Also her & the geminae are one unit, so shooting at them you can allocate the wounds to the geminae regardless of the character rule, but that said yes, a base squad of seraphim are a cheap screen.

She's actually not that hard to get killed in melee if you get overconfident and think she can play with the big boys (thunder hammers will mess her day right up)

e:fb;

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012
Fair enough. I freely admit that I'm still building my sisters army and have very minor practical in-person experience with 8thed ATM.

Point is though, she can be very hard to put down even without other units providing extra protection. This wouldn't be notable by itself (7thed was full of units that never died but did literally nothing) but she can also be pretty terrifying offensively with her +4STR/-3AP/2damage flamer sword.

I will also admit that I didn't know that the person who owned the unit decided where wounds were allocated; I guess I assumed that the shooter could target individual models (but not character models), Units makes more sense in a "lets not have a 3 day long game" way though.

Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Mar 13, 2018

OhDearGodNo
Jan 3, 2014

BULBASAUR posted:

Hey you toxxic 30k players, get back into the 30k thread. This is the 41k thread, where the Emperior is alive again and his marines are 20% larger

I think I’ve already forgotten how to play 7th.

adamantium|wang
Sep 14, 2003

Missing you

Bombogenesis posted:

Oh my god you're all terrible. Please give me advice so I can be terrible too.


Shameless self quote for new page. :toot:

Has anyone actually tried Hellions in 8th to any degree of success? I like the models but they're so...not good. Which is a shame since Gangs of Commoragh is still a great value :smith:

The new Drew Carey codex is due out after Tau and Necrons, it might be best to hold off on retooling your lists or buying new minis until then.

Foul Ole Ron
Jan 6, 2005

All of you, please don't rush, everyone do the Guybrush!
Fun Shoe


This is a work in progress captured on camera phone so apologies in advance.

Still I'm pretty hyped about how it came out.

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



Neurolimal posted:

Well, before even getting to her death she has a 4+ invulnerable save and 7 (!) Wounds (most long ranged stuff applies one wound), as well as Shield of Faith's 6+ invuln save which I think stacks, and if she's your warlord she can get Tenacious Survivor (roll a die when she is wounded, on a 6 she doesn't receive the wound).

Additionally, a battle-forged (aka entire detachment is one faction) SoB detachment can use acts of faith, which includes an act that can either recover up to 3 wounds or resurrect a model in the casters' unit and give them one wound.

Additionally, 8th edition has a Character rule; specific character models cannot be targeted unless they are the nearest visible unit. Which means most of the time, when a single Geminae is alive, the only thing that can hit her is whatever she's stabbing.

When she DOES die, her rez kicks in: roll a die, and any result that's not a 1 means she comes back to life near a surviving Geminae Superia (her two bodyguards) with all wounds back and no kill credit. If no Geminae are alive then she can be placed anywhere on the table 9 inches away from enemies (you can use this to your advantage to have her sneak up on different targets, as she can fly around with 12 inches of movement). It's only on a roll of 1 that she actually dies (even then for fluff purposes she's actually "needed elsewhere" :v:) and gives kill credit. As a result actually killing Celestine is a terrible idea because it just means she teleports around 80+% of the time, so instead the optimal choice is to find a way to debuff her so she's not an ungodly hulk, which isn't that common, especially for melee.

On top of this, she can resurrect a geminae each turn without an act of faith. All of this immortality comes at a cost of course - 200 points for Celestine, 25 points for each geminae (up to 2). For comparison the price point for the babyknight being hoped for is 150pts.

Holy poo poo, that’s loving ridiculous.

Stanyer89
Aug 4, 2012

This whole thread is full of idiot nerds to be quite frank.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016

Stanyer89 posted:

This whole thread is full of idiot nerds to be quite frank.

Looks like you're in this thread too bucko

Hustlin Floh
Jul 20, 2009

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Stanyer89 posted:

This whole thread is full of idiot nerds to be quite frank.

That doesn't sound like something frank would say. You're a liar.

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Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012
we're all idiot nerds, that's what makes us faaahhhmileh

You can't leeroy Celestine into an entire army, but when we're talking in the context of "there's also six sisters with flamers in a giant tanky car raising hell elsewhere" I'd say her tankiness starts to show. All her special tricks mean you just can't chip her down at all, it's one-turn heavy firing or two-turn heavy firing and she gets to gib a second target.

I also forgot to mention that she can also make another unit perform a second act of faith alongside your default act of faith per turn if there's another Sisters unit nearby (and if you're going for max beefiness she'll likely have a squad of sisters to draw targeting), and they're pretty big deals:

quote:

-Hand of the Emperor: The unit immediately moves as if in the movement phase.
-Divine Guidance: The unit immediately shoots as if in the shooting phase
-The Passion: The unit immediately fights as if in the fighting phase.
-Spirit of the Martyr: The unit regains a model or gives back D3 wounds to a wounded model.

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