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It's funny that Yaddle was Yoda 2.0.1 and then they tried again and got what they got.
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Mar 10, 2018 23:47
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George Lucas, 1977: gently caress, we don't have any shooting locations that are the space above a gas giant....... let's just make it look like poo poo so no one thinks we're dumb
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Mar 11, 2018 01:49
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:
Corky Romanovsky fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Mar 11, 2018 |
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Mar 11, 2018 13:46
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:
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Mar 11, 2018 14:29
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An interview with Johnson in the latest issue of EW says that Luke has still yet to deliver on his promise of 3 lessons to Rey.
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Mar 11, 2018 21:42
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Gonz posted:An interview with Johnson in the latest issue of EW says that Luke has still yet to deliver on his promise of 3 lessons to Rey. Luke gonna get his ghost dad on.
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Mar 11, 2018 21:48
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I'm boycotting all future star wars if there isn't a scene of Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke, Prequel Anakin, and Mace Windu all ghosting together. I'll pay extra if it includes some fan favourites like Kitt Fisto, Conehead, Mask Alien, and Sexy Blue Lady.
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Mar 11, 2018 22:01
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you forgot Other Tentacle Lady
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Mar 12, 2018 00:05
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I'm boycotting all future star wars if there isn't a scene of Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke, Prequel Anakin, and Mace Windu all ghosting together. conehead or verticalovalhead?
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Mar 12, 2018 00:46
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So I finally got around to seeing this and here's my thoughts... Overall I liked it better than TFA, but only because the story from TFA was such a relentlessly tepid retread of ANH. Like they went out of their way to make TFA such an agonizingly lame, paint-by-numbers copy of ANH, that there was no way I couldn't enjoy this more. However the one thing I liked better in TFA was characterization, Finn had more to do of course, but what really stood out for me was Kylo Ren. He was an absolutely fantastic surprise and one of the best characters in film in a while. The sequels have brought almost nothing new to the series. But the one thing that I really found completely original and awesome was the characterization of Kylo Ren. He's reminiscent of Andrew from Chronicle. He's a nerdy prodigy whose dark, school-shooter-like rage is driven by his insecurity that he's not as cool or powerful as his hero, Darth Vader. With the arguable exception of Darth Vader himself (and only at the end of the OT) no other characters from any of the other movies had that degree of nuance and complexity, and I really, really loved that. It was the one thing I absolutely loved about TFA. You really felt the gravitas of Vader's legacy and its effect on Ren. You still get some of that in TLJ, with Snoke openly calling out Ren for basically being a loser and Vader cosplayer. But for some reason all the characters in TLJ just felt less interesting than in TFA, perhaps because we already knew who they were and what they were about. And since none of the characters (save Ren) seem to really have arcs, they ended up being even more one note the before when they were at least new. The positives of TLJ was essentially that it wasn't a retread ESB. I kept reading people saying it was, but when I actually watched it, it certainly didn't mirror ESB anywhere near as much as TFA mirrored ANH. And that for me was a huge plus, because more than anything else the TFA mirroring ANH was what ruined that movie for me and made it feel like such a fake fan-made film. I honestly didn't have nearly as much problem with Abrams' directing/writing style or mystery boxes in TFA as did with the simple fact that it was such a nails-on-a-chalkboard close retread of ANH. As such I wasn't really a fan of the lack of congruence between TFA and TLJ. Regarding the negative reaction by some fan's to Luke's speech taking down the Jedi. I kind of feel like Rian was just trying to give fans what they wanted by having Luke verbalize the current fan perception of the Jedi in terms of myth vs reality. People easily forget the fan reaction to the prequels, but you can pretty much draw a straight line between the fan reaction to the portrayal of the Jedi council in the prequels, which was epitomized by Red Letter Media, to Luke's Speech about the Jedi in TLJ. I remember after the prequels, whether it was Lucas' intention or not, the fan perception of the Jedi was that they were in reality a bunch of self-righteous, heads up their rear end people, who were so full of themselves that they couldn't see the obvious truth staring them right in the face. It's possible I'm misremembering but I'm fairly sure Red Letter Media's reviews went over this general idea a lot, and it was discussed and generally agreed upon, across various forums by fans. So after the events of the prequels fans basically de facto conclude that when they were in power, the Jedi were, contrary to myth, in reality just an intellectual paper tiger blinded by their own perceived infallibility. So Luke shows up in TLJ and gives a speech basically verbalizing the entire aforementioned point, and the result is that a lot of fans act like it's horrible blasphemy that came completely out of nowhere, when the reality was, the evidence for it was all over the place in the prequels and had become the popular fan interpretation of the Jedi, post-prequels. Another thing I noticed was that the last few films seem like they've been a pendulum going back and forth between "close to the OT" and "away from the OT", due to filmmakers basing their movie off of fans' wishes. They essentially give fans what they say they want, and it ends up being either fans didn't really want the thing they said they wanted or the filmmakers went a little too far. After the prequels everyone said Lucas went way too far off the rails and they wanted something like the OT films. So Abrams gives us TFA, a film that is so close to ANH that it creates it's own category somewhere between sequel and remake, almost reboot. Fans hate this as it's the very definition of "Star Wars: A New Hope but too much." Rian, the director for the next film, TLJ, get's the message and proceeds to, as others have pointed out, turn every trope and expectation on it's head. Poe's classic gambit doesn't actually work and makes things worse. Luke doesn't go out like Obi Wan, but he doesn't live either. Rey's parents are nobody. Snoke get's unceremoniously stomped out. Ditto Phasma... The problem with all of this, and this is true for every film going back to and including the prequels, is that barometer for success isn't a matter of how alike or different a new star wars movie is compared to the OT(well, ok, it was with TFA, but that's because it went waaay overboard), its if a new star wars movie is as good as the moves from the OT. People didn't necessarily hate the prequels because they were different in content, they hated them because they just really were not very good movies. So the "different" stuff Rian did in TLJ ended up being more of a toss-up in terms of whether or not it was an actual improvement. Rey's parents were good, but pretty much all the other changes, outside of the obvious one that the film wasn't a complete and total paint-by-numbers copy of ESB, didn't really work. Snoke's death was weird cuz wasn't' he supposed to be a baddass, and Kylo doesn't really come off like enough of a threat to be a good replacement. Poe's gambit failure may have sounded interesting in theory, but just ends up making that whole middle part of the film seem superfluous, etc. As others have said this movie mostly just left me focused on seeing what happens in the next one, and not necessarily in a "wow this was sooo good, I can't wait to see what happens next", but more in a "meh, whatevs, moving on..." One of the biggest things they need to do in the next movie is bring in a completely new villain that effortlessly stomps out Rey and gives Ren the window to turn good. This will be a good move for several reasons, the biggest of which has already been pointed out countless times which is that Rey is a garbage, thin, stupidly overpowered character with no arc. Seriously, watching the last two movies is like watching writers completely forget how to write. Words like "character arc", and "conflict" might as well be in martian to these writers because they don't seem to have ever heard of them. At least Finin had a prominent role in TFA, they didn't even try with him in TLJ, just relegated him to lame comic side character. They could even have the new villain go all meta, giving a speech specifically addressing the weaknesses in Rey's character, both in the film, and as a literary character, by pointing out (while she's getting wrecked) that while she has a ton of natural talent, truly great warriors are created and tempered not by their victories but by their defeats. And as she's never really had her face shoved into the mud and felt the sting of complete failure and utter defeat, she's never had the opportunity to grow, or even armor herself against that most basic aspect of conflict. Thus her lack of failure is her greatest weakness, and when she does finally get completely trounced, it's such a shock to her system that she wallows in it for a time, her lack of spirit becomes her worst enemy, like Rocky III, until, over the course of the film, she actually goes through the gauntlet of trials, repeated failures, struggles with self-doubt, of a traditional hero, before coming out the other end having actually earned the victory she ultimately achieves. That's just my thoughts, anyway. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 03:11
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There was something oddly charming about Snoke slamming Hux face first into the ship deck and literally mopping the floor with him Like a parent chastising a child We see it again when Snoke lets Rey think she's called the lightsaber to her, only to smack her over the head with it I enjoyed the film, even with its numerous eye-rolling moments
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Mar 13, 2018 03:20
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-Blackadder- posted:One of the biggest things they need to do in the next movie is bring in a completely new villain that effortlessly stomps out Rey and gives Ren the window to turn good. This will be a good move for several reasons, the biggest of which has already been pointed out countless times which is that Rey is a garbage, thin, stupidly overpowered character with no arc. Seriously, watching the last two movies is like watching writers completely forget how to write. Words like "character arc", and "conflict" might as well be in martian to these writers because they don't seem to have ever heard of them. At least Finin had a prominent role in TFA, they didn't even try with him in TLJ, just relegated him to lame comic side character. If the new movie is supposed to be a conclusion of sorts to Rey's arc, it's way too late to bring in a new adversary for her.
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Mar 13, 2018 03:57
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General Dog posted:If the new movie is supposed to be a conclusion of sorts to Rey's arc, it's way too late to bring in a new adversary for her. I mean, I don't disagree that it is a bit late, but I think it can still be done without it being awkward. Of course I don't think a new villain is an absolute necessity. It's just one possible option to solve their primary problem, which is that Rey is a 1-dimensional character with no arc and no antagonist that presents a real threat to her. They could also manufacture some way to give Ren a power boost, but that seems like it would feel cheesy. And also a bit of a shame because Ren is actually a great character by himself, he's nuanced and complicated, he has strengths and weaknesses that give his character depth, and discernible and realistic emotions and motivations. He's just not a threatening enough primary antagonist to put up against a character who essentially starts out as Neo and then just stays that way. EDIT: vvv and yeah. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 04:32
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General Dog posted:If the new movie is supposed to be a conclusion of sorts to Rey's arc, it's way too late to bring in a new adversary for her. Worked for Palpatine, no reason it couldn't work here
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Mar 13, 2018 04:40
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^^^Showed up in ESB first.quote:Regarding the negative reaction by some fan's to Luke's speech taking down the Jedi. I kind of feel like Rian was just trying to give fans what they wanted by having Luke verbalize the current fan perception of the Jedi in terms of myth vs reality. People easily forget the fan reaction to the prequels, but you can pretty much draw a straight line between the fan reaction to the portrayal of the Jedi council in the prequels, which was epitomized by Red Letter Media, to Luke's Speech about the Jedi in TLJ. I remember after the prequels, whether it was Lucas' intention or not, the fan perception of the Jedi was that they were in reality a bunch of self-righteous, heads up their rear end people, who were so full of themselves that they couldn't see the obvious truth staring them right in the face. It's possible I'm misremembering but I'm fairly sure Red Letter Media's reviews went over this general idea a lot, and it was discussed and generally agreed upon, across various forums by fans. So after the events of the prequels fans basically de facto conclude that when they were in power, the Jedi were, contrary to myth, in reality just an intellectual paper tiger blinded by their own perceived infallibility. So Luke shows up in TLJ and gives a speech basically verbalizing the entire aforementioned point, and the result is that a lot of fans act like it's horrible blasphemy that came completely out of nowhere, when the reality was, the evidence for it was all over the place in the prequels and had become the popular fan interpretation of the Jedi, post-prequels. I feel this is pretty inaccurate. Rian was not giving the fans what they wanted. Post-prequels, the common fan perception was that Lucas had gotten the Jedi wrong, that the Jedi should've seen Sidious under their noses (the RLM point about testing Sheev's blood for midichlorians, for example), that they played no part in Anakin's fall, and so on. Probably the only EU writer who understood maybe what Lucas was doing with the Jedi was Traviss, and she might've gone too far in her 'gently caress the Jedi' demagoguery. The fan perception you're talking about has only really started being taken seriously in the past few years*, and typically only in places like CD. Even now, when I say what you said about the Jedi to people who are 'Star Wars fans', they basically act like it's heresy. The speech Luke gave was just a way of putting that perception of the Jedi into canon -- and even then, it's rooted in a nice little 'Oh, Luke is just upset and sulky' point of view which means it could be wrong or exaggerated. The evidence for it was all over the place, yes, but the popular fan interpretation was that the evidence wasn't irrelevant or the result of 'thinking too much' or 'reading into things'. The reason why they react to it was blasphemy is because it is being stated directly, whereas the prequels it was more oblique. * -- RLM pointed this out in their TFA review, IIRC, where they wonder if Disney was trying to rehabilitate the prequels or something along those lines.
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Mar 13, 2018 04:45
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TheKingofSprings posted:Worked for Palpatine, no reason it couldn't work here Palpatine was established in the first two movies though, if vaguely. What, they're just going to say "oh yeah, Snoke was actually just a pawn, here's the big bad who was behind the big bad". That would be some incredible bullshit. The only way they could trot out a last minute secret bad guy is if it turned out to be someone we already know, which would also have to be incredible bullshit
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Mar 13, 2018 04:46
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General Dog posted:Palpatine was established in the first two movies though, if vaguely. What, they're just going to say "oh yeah, Snoke was actually just a pawn, here's the big bad who was behind the big bad". That would be some incredible bullshit. The only way they could trot out a last minute secret mastermind is if it was someone we already know, which would also have to be incredible bullshit Darth Jar-Jar's time at last
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Mar 13, 2018 04:47
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TheKingofSprings posted:Darth Jar-Jar's time at last With Rose Tico as his apprentice
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Mar 13, 2018 04:49
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R2-D2 was an Imperial intelligence asset who was deployed by the Empire's CIA-equivalent to weaken and eventually depose Palpatine/Vader and replace them with more conventional military leadership. The plan backfired when the Rebellion mustered more military might off the back of its victory at Yavin than originally anticipated. However, R2-D2 has remained in contact with surviving operatives, and works as a mole within the Resistance leadership structure to this very day.
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Mar 13, 2018 04:55
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Milky Moor posted:^^^Showed up in ESB first. That's fair. I misspoke the "giving fans what they wanted part". You're correct on that point that fans were largely dissatisfied with the way Lucas portrayed the Jedi in the prequels. What I was trying to express wasn't that Rian was really "giving fans what they wanted", but more along the lines of he was following along with the fan perception of the portrayals of the Jedi in the prequels. The point I was trying to make was that it was a fan-originated idea/theme that, based on the prequels, the Jedi, rather than being messianic figures of supreme wisdom and knowledge, were in reality, self-righteously dogmatic, self-important, and blinded by hubris to the point of essentially being responsible for their own downfall and the downfall of the Galactic Republic. And that Rian, known as being a fan of the prequels, was just following this theme when he had Luke, in TLJ, describe the Jedi essentially exactly as they were portrayed in the prequels. So this shouldn't exactly have been a surprise as, regardless of the fact that many fans thought Lucas had gotten his own characters and universe wrong, it was still canon and was certainly congruent with previous movies in the series. Milky Moor posted:Probably the only EU writer who understood maybe what Lucas was doing with the Jedi was Traviss, and she might've gone too far in her 'gently caress the Jedi' demagoguery. Can you expand on this? I'm completely unfamiliar with this. Milky Moor posted:The fan perception you're talking about has only really started being taken seriously in the past few years*, and typically only in places like CD. Even now, when I say what you said about the Jedi to people who are 'Star Wars fans', they basically act like it's heresy. I read the rest of this, and you may be right as far as the fan perception goes, I can't say I've followed it all that much, and I do remember people being pretty salty about the Jedi portrayal in the prequels. Of course that was because they felt it was incongruent with what we learned of the Jedi from the OT, but what we learned of the Jedi from the OT was vague and obfuscated 1st and 2nd hand accounts at best and just straight mythology at worst. Some fans may not have liked it but according to their creator the real Jedi were the ones we saw in prequels. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 05:17
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-Blackadder- posted:Can you expand on this? I'm completely unfamiliar with this. I've only read some of Traviss' Halo stuff and heard about her SW stuff second-hand, but it seems like she was one of the few who had the Jedi pegged as ineffectual self-serving bureaucrats who basically abducted children into their creepy cult (which is similar to her critique of characters like Halsey and the UNSC in some of her Halo stuff). Much like the prequels, though, I remember a lot of fans being very angry that Traviss got the Jedi 'wrong'. For example, from her blog... quote:It's the kind that says the Jedi are always justified when they do seriously bad poo poo, because - well, they're the good guys, and what good guys do is never bad, right? Some of that is stuff that shows up in CD and other SW discussion areas about why the Jedi are pretty weird at best and evil at worst (and sometimes extended to droids as well), but when Traviss was writing about it years ago, people were much less receptive to the idea.
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Mar 13, 2018 05:59
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a nerdy prodigy whose dark, school-shooter-like rage is driven by his insecurity that he's not as cool or powerful as his hero, Darth Vader
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Mar 13, 2018 06:00
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At last, an opinion about Star Wars
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Mar 13, 2018 06:22
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Milky Moor posted:I've only read some of Traviss' Halo stuff and heard about her SW stuff second-hand, but it seems like she was one of the few who had the Jedi pegged as ineffectual self-serving bureaucrats who basically abducted children into their creepy cult (which is similar to her critique of characters like Halsey and the UNSC in some of her Halo stuff). Much like the prequels, though, I remember a lot of fans being very angry that Traviss got the Jedi 'wrong'. That's actually really interesting. Thanks for laying that out.
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Mar 13, 2018 06:33
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Was this the one who was also really really really into Mandalorians?
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Mar 13, 2018 06:43
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Gorelab posted:Was this the one who was also really really really into Mandalorians? And she did alright with them until she started incorporating the Jedi into her works and proceeded to drag them through the proverbial and literal mud to make the Mandos look good She wasn't a fan when The Clone Wars' version of the Mandalorians rendered her history of them essentially obsolete by turning them into pacifists It's a fascinating train wreck to research - quite the Travissty
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Mar 13, 2018 06:53
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To be fair, the Jedi do deserve some poo poo. But I honestly read them as well meaning and trying to do the right thing but hobbled by tradition and some self-righteousness into being blind to needed reforms/the danger of Nazi space wizards.
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Mar 13, 2018 07:02
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Milky Moor posted:Rian was not giving the fans what they wanted. Post-prequels, the common fan perception was that Lucas had gotten the Jedi wrong, that the Jedi should've seen Sidious under their noses (the RLM point about testing Sheev's blood for midichlorians, for example), that they played no part in Anakin's fall, and so on. Probably the only EU writer who understood maybe what Lucas was doing with the Jedi was Traviss, and she might've gone too far in her 'gently caress the Jedi' demagoguery. The fan perception you're talking about has only really started being taken seriously in the past few years*, and typically only in places like CD. Even now, when I say what you said about the Jedi to people who are 'Star Wars fans', they basically act like it's heresy. This is done in Clone Wars, and it's considered one of the best arcs of the show.
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Mar 13, 2018 07:49
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Nodosaur posted:This is done in Clone Wars, and it's considered one of the best arcs of the show. And which arc was that?
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Mar 13, 2018 08:11
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Is that the arc where it's revealed that the clones have Evil Chips in their heads and one of them malfunctions and makes the Clone kill his Jedi General seemingly randomly? Kinda dumb, IMO.
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Mar 13, 2018 08:27
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The one where Bariss Offee turns against the order under the belief they've become corrupted by militarization, before she bombs the jedi temple, framing Ahsoka, which ultimately results in her renouncing the Jedi despite being welcomed back with open arms due to their refusal to stand by her. The ending has Ahsoka jaded with the Jedi's teaching and begrudgingy realizing Barris had a point, as well as contributing to Anakin's disillusionment with the Council.
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Mar 13, 2018 08:40
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The Prequel Jedi Order was portrayed like the Old Republic. In that they were supposed to be good guys who needed reform/a wake-up call but ultimately worth preserving. That's why the fall of both is treated as a tragedy and an objectively (to the film) bad thing. Now it is entirely possible for one to disagree with Liberal Democracy being something worth preserving or thinking the Jedi way is wrong. But thats you disagreeing with the film, not the film saying that.
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Mar 13, 2018 08:51
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Well, yes. And that's why the movie has Luke decide not to be "the last Jedi". TCW and other material are on that side too, they just didn't ignore the flaws and problems and at least toyed with the question and showed that change was needed. It doesn't have to be binary.
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Mar 13, 2018 09:10
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TLJ is available on some service right now...god the salt planet duel has laughable cg
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Mar 13, 2018 11:41
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galagazombie posted:The Prequel Jedi Order was portrayed like the Old Republic. In that they were supposed to be good guys who needed reform/a wake-up call but ultimately worth preserving. That's why the fall of both is treated as a tragedy and an objectively (to the film) bad thing. Now it is entirely possible for one to disagree with Liberal Democracy being something worth preserving or thinking the Jedi way is wrong. But thats you disagreeing with the film, not the film saying that. I'm not sure if people really think these things through. The Jedi Order is a theocracy with police powers that has been established as trying to destroy rival religions. The Republic was an aristocratic assembly that was unable and unwilling to stop a junk dealer from owning slaves. It's not a tragedy that they fall, it's a comedy. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 11:45
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Corky Romanovsky posted:TLJ is available on some service right now...god the salt planet duel has laughable cg Yeah, they even forgot to add Luke's foot traces in the salt. I hope someone got fired for that.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:23
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The salt planet is in Brazil iirc. Maybe Ecuador.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:24
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euphronius posted:The salt planet is in Brazil iirc. Maybe Ecuador. Wouldn't Bolivia make more sense? E: Yep, Bolivia.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:56
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Corky Romanovsky posted:TLJ is available on some service right now...god the salt planet duel has laughable cg The only thing that really bothers me in that whole sequence are the rocks Rey moves out of the way. They stick out like a point of interest in a Lucasarts adventure game.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:42
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Captain Splendid posted:Wouldn't Bolivia make more sense? I know it was somewhere in that Andes area. iSheep posted:The only thing that really bothers me in that whole sequence are the rocks Rey moves out of the way. They look amazing in 3D Maybe in 2d it doesn't look right
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Mar 13, 2018 19:48
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