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PT6A posted:I've already agreed it doesn't go nearly far enough, but the perfect is not the enemy of the mediocre-but-better-than-nothing. Can you possibly conceive of a scenario where sometimes, sometimes, a really poor implementation of something is actually worse than doing nothing?
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Mar 13, 2018 14:41
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NZAmoeba posted:Can you possibly conceive of a scenario where sometimes, sometimes, a really poor implementation of something is actually worse than doing nothing? This isn't a really poor implementation of a thing, it's an incomplete implementation of a thing. A complete solution would include that which is already being done.
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Mar 13, 2018 14:44
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Do you really think this carbon tax will ever evolve to be anything but another wealth transfer from the rest of us to the rich?
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Mar 13, 2018 14:46
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EvilJoven posted:Do you really think this carbon tax will ever evolve to be anything but another wealth transfer from the rest of us to the rich? That sounds like a problem caused by the voters in MB, who duly elected this government to administer the province. It certainly could be changed, if there were a will to do so.
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Mar 13, 2018 14:48
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Postess with the Mostest posted:It's interesting to think why a politician would take a stance like that though. 4 million voters.
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Mar 13, 2018 14:49
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flakeloaf posted:4 million voters. Which is the absolute best scenario because if the leader of the country gets informed of the real dangers of climate change from our top, most highly educated scientists and decides those dangers really aren't that bad and getting re-elected is more important let's build a new pipeline and do a carbon tax thingy to satisfy the ghg ideology people, I really don't feel that bad about being a 2 pickup truck family or burning my cardboard monthly so I don't have to drag it to the curb.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:04
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blah_blah posted:I'd be interested in you elaborating on why this is the case. The personal amount (not personal exemption, that's an American term) is essentially a nonrefundable tax credit worth 15% (= lowest marginal tax rate) x $11k or so. It is actually progressive in the sense that low-income earners (that make at least 11k/year) get refunded at their marginal rate, whereas high-income earners get a refund at less than half of their marginal rate. It's true that people that make less than 11k a year don't benefit but tax breaks are generically ineffective at benefitting people that don't pay taxes. You can't look at it in a bubble, a consumption tax is being introduced on fuel use, which the proceeds are going to a flat decrease of taxes across the board, how much more regressive do you want. PT6A posted:This isn't a really poor implementation of a thing, it's an incomplete implementation of a thing. A complete solution would include that which is already being done. This isn't even a carbon tax in the slightest sense, it's just another small sales tax on fuel that will do nothing to curb consumption, the proceeds of which are being used to lower taxes in other areas.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:07
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Pro-pipeline, anti-cars for poor people is pure strain lolberalism.txt I remember a couple years ago the U of M created a climate change projections atlas that was super fascinating. The prairies turn to desert in like 30 years. http://climateatlas.ca/atlas.html
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Mar 13, 2018 15:48
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It's not surprising that the guy arguing that pipelines are good is also arguing that 5c/litre carbon tax is absolutely a difference maker for climate change.Stickarts posted:Pro-pipeline, anti-cars for poor people is pure strain lolberalism.txt Yeah we hosed.
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Mar 13, 2018 15:52
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PT6A posted:That sounds like a problem caused by the voters in MB, who duly elected this government to administer the province. It certainly could be changed, if there were a will to do so. Two things. 1: The Liberal Party at the time was a joke and an embarrassment. 2. The NDP had been in power for a long time, and by that point had grown inept and lovely, and the internal workings of the party became so awful half the party voted to purge their current leader and failed. The descent towards mediocrity made the rise of some other party inevitable.
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Mar 13, 2018 16:02
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DariusLikewise posted:It's not surprising that the guy arguing that pipelines are good is also arguing that 5c/litre carbon tax is absolutely a difference maker for climate change. I'm not arguing that pipelines are good, I'm arguing that they may be bad yet still necessary for my province's economic well-being in the short term, until we have both funds and a government that properly directs funds towards economic diversification. I completely agree the PCs were responsible for loving things up so bad in the first place, but that doesn't really change the situation we find ourselves in right now.
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Mar 13, 2018 16:16
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Ah, the Kissinger fan breaks out the Realpolitik
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Mar 13, 2018 16:22
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PT6A posted:I'm not arguing that pipelines are good, I'm arguing that they may be bad yet still necessary for my province's economic well-being in the short term Why not just change 'my province's to 'my' and be done with it you walking embodiment of the FYGM mindset
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Mar 13, 2018 16:24
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infernal machines posted:Ah, the Kissinger fan breaks out the Realpolitik I'm not a fan of Kissinger, though? You seem to just conjure opinions you dislike, and then accuse me of holding them.
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Mar 13, 2018 16:28
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PT6A posted:I'm not arguing that pipelines are good, I'm arguing that they may be bad yet still necessary for my province's economic well-being in the short term, until we have both funds and a government that properly directs funds towards economic diversification. What do you think pipelines will do for Alberta in terms of actual jobs and money?
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Mar 13, 2018 16:36
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DariusLikewise posted:What do you think pipelines will do for Alberta in terms of actual jobs and money? They will make the shittiest oil on the planet marginally less unprofitable to extract and ship overseas for processing, and provide a score of one-time jobs during construction. PT6A posted:I'm not a fan of Kissinger, though? My apologies, I thought I remembered you defending him way back when, and well, if the shoe fits.
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Mar 13, 2018 16:53
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PT6A posted:I'm not arguing that pipelines are good, I'm arguing that they may be bad yet still necessary for my province's economic well-being in the short term, until we have both funds and a government that properly directs funds towards economic diversification Your pipelines sure don't help my province at all! Maybe Alberta should pay the price for not managing nor diversifying their wealth.
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Mar 13, 2018 17:58
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CLAM DOWN posted:Your pipelines sure don't help my province at all! Maybe Alberta should pay the price for not managing nor diversifying their wealth. Maybe Manitoba should pay the price for not developing public transit infrastructure.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:00
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PT6A posted:Maybe Manitoba should pay the price for not developing public transit infrastructure. DariusLikewise posted:What do you think pipelines will do for Alberta in terms of actual jobs and money?
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Mar 13, 2018 18:00
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PT6A posted:Maybe Manitoba should pay the price for not developing public transit infrastructure. What is it with Albertans and being absurdly ignorant, it's uncanny
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Mar 13, 2018 18:02
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CanPol, entry #420.69, March 13, 2018: Herein we witness an individual - who mocks those who express anger toward neoliberalism and its deleterious effects on local, national, and international affairs - complain about crumbling, underfunded public infrastructure.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:31
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CLAM DOWN posted:What is it with Albertans and being absurdly ignorant, it's uncanny How is it significantly different? In each case, it's the poor who are ultimately going to suffer, because poo poo doesn't roll uphill. I'm not fussed about executives taking paycuts or losing their jobs, it's about the economic slowdown in general which results from a slowdown in our primary industry, which, as with the MB carbon tax, hits the poor and unemployed hardest. We should do things right this time by implementing a strongly progressive provincial income tax, and using the funds to diversify the economy as it grows, but it's all predicated on having the funds to begin with, and with the situation the PCs left us, that's not really possible. The ANDP has been doing what they can, but it's not enough.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:31
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How, materially, is a pipeline going to affect this situation?
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Mar 13, 2018 18:35
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Looks like Doug Ford wants free market weed http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/pc-leader-doug-ford-cannabis-ottawa-morning-1.4573790 That's actually better than what the liberals are putting forth. Still would never vote for him in a million years.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:35
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Oh god yes. Single issue cannabis voters going PC? Amazing. e: "Former drug dealer demands free market solutions for drug distribution" is possibly the least surprising headline ever
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Mar 13, 2018 18:38
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Former drug dealer who may very well have associates who are current drug dealers. Prove this, win elec... nah who am i kidding
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Mar 13, 2018 18:42
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With the province getting into retail level drug distribution I think you're going to have a hell of a time demonizing drug dealers without looking like a complete toolbag.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:48
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Bring back CI
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Mar 13, 2018 18:58
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TheKingofSprings posted:1: The Liberal Party at the time was a joke and an embarrassment. It really was a spectacular failure for the MB Liberals. As you said, the NDP had become a horrible non-option and essentially committed suicide when the leadership coup failed. Pallister was a clown. Trudeau's victory was still fresh. The MB Liberals responded to this nearly perfect storm for actually becoming provincially relevant by electing a clueless leader and failed to even successfully put candidates in some ridings, all the while botching media appearances and making promises that weren't as well thought out as most high school student council platforms. Manitoba never stood a chance and that's why we have what we have today.
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Mar 13, 2018 18:59
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I'm interested to see what the actual consensus on this budget hits in the polling, Conservatives seem pissed because the Carbon Tax is a new tax that isn't actually neutral and the actual Progressives are seeing right through the Carbon Tax. I think Pallister managed to over hype this enough that he may continue the PCs slide downwards. EDIT: PT6A if you really can't see why this Carbon Tax will do nothing, what good is raising the price of Carbon Fuel Sources if the price of Carbon Fuel Sources is still cheaper than Alternative Non-Carbon Fuel Sources, that's exactly what just happened and you can't just eat this poo poo and say it's good because it's called a Carbon Tax and all Carbon Taxes are good DariusLikewise fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 19:03
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Mar 13, 2018 19:14
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infernal machines posted:With the province getting into retail level drug distribution I think you're going to have a hell of a time demonizing drug dealers without looking like a complete toolbag. I was saying this to my wife last night. Focusing on Doug's past as a drug dealer would be a huge mistake for the Liberals. Talk about the much nearer past if you must, but mostly talk about the present and future.
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Mar 13, 2018 19:19
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Reince Penis posted:I was saying this to my wife last night. Focusing on Doug's past as a drug dealer would be a huge mistake for the Liberals. The Liberals seem to be competent in their evil. The ONDP on the other hand...
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Mar 13, 2018 19:20
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Maybe if people didn't have to resort to dealing drugs to survive they wouldn't relate to a drug dealer so much
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Mar 13, 2018 19:24
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That and if the best imitation of a hit piece the journalists at the time could do was unsourced this and nameless friend that, no candidate would put their name on any sort of accusation like that today. Charge him or piss off. oh my god that windbag is getting elected
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Mar 13, 2018 19:24
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FOLKS https://twitter.com/frknbns/status/973596315191054336
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Mar 13, 2018 19:25
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Mar 13, 2018 19:41
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idgi why are there two chris farleys
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Mar 13, 2018 20:08
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infernal machines posted:With the province getting into retail level drug distribution I think you're going to have a hell of a time demonizing drug dealers without looking like a complete toolbag. I don't know. Depends how it's framed I think. For example, people in BC pretty recently voted to keep the BC Liquor Stores public; one of the deciding factors, apparently, was the stringent carding practices compared to private stores. Could sell the gov't controlled distribution as more responsible.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:10
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I'm saying it's a bad angle to try and attack Doug, a former hash dealer on, because there's no moral outrage there.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:31
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