|
Subjunctive posted:I don’t think most of the video game LPs I’ve watched have linked to the game, but maybe I’m misremembering. Me neither, but in fairness, it's way easier to track down where to buy The New Colossus than it is to find a smallprint rpg.
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 16:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 10:27 |
|
|
dwarf74 posted:...no? gradenko_2000 posted:pretty sure ARB is taking the piss Kinda-sorta, yeah. I think it's more of a complicated issue once it stops being a fandom work and people start making a real living off of this kind of thing, but I wouldn't pretend to have the answers. Ideally you'd use the opportunity to reach out to the people and see if there's a way you can help them and vice versa. As for "they bought their copies!", who knows how much Wallis gets off of that? I mean, I think he has the rights to the game and presumably makes something off of the sales, but it's hard to say. Presumably getting his name highlighted is probably worth more than the sandwich money he gets off the sales.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 16:21
|
|
|
Didn't WW try to burn down their LARP communities for similar reasons?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 16:53
|
|
|
moths posted:Didn't WW try to burn down their LARP communities for similar reasons? No, IIRC, there was a particular LARP community that basically tried taking ownership of some WW content and make money off it selling it as their own. e: v good, thanks for saving my shoddy memory!
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
moths posted:Didn't WW try to burn down their LARP communities for similar reasons? I think I covered that whole mess in the last thread, I'll see if I can find it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 17:02
|
|
|
hyphz posted:The above about Alas Vegas is completely agreed - I can’t imagine it running coherently with rotating GMs as proposed in the book. On the other hand, if the central game mechanics of your game are that simple, you've made a bigger problem for yourself anyway - namely that it's difficult or impossible to discuss or critique Munchausen without giving much of the game away. Wallis makes the book worth buying by writing it in the Baron's voice, which is amusing enough that I figured it was worth the money I spent on it, but if people don't value that it can be hard to convince them it's worth the money anyway - I can see how it'd be harder still if someone did a let's play involved enough that others could just start playing the game by watching the video once and them copying the game mechanics from that. Alas Vegas, of course, has the problem where if you watch a Let's Play of it, you've already spoilered the core scenario for yourself. This is true for all prewritten scenarios, but is especially true for Alas Vegas, where every single session is meant to be a huge surprise to the participants and drip-feeding out the information is so central to the concept.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 17:04
|
|
|
Comrade Gorbash posted:It was more the reverse. Please, do. I was hip-deep in the local scene when that poo poo spun up, and it's a delight to see how ridiculous the whole thing was in retrospect. Warthur posted:Wallis makes the book worth buying by writing it in the Baron's voice, which is amusing enough that I figured it was worth the money I spent on it, but if people don't value that it can be hard to convince them it's worth the money anyway - I can see how it'd be harder still if someone did a let's play involved enough that others could just start playing the game by watching the video once and them copying the game mechanics from that. The version a friend had had pages and pages of hilarious bullshitting prompts. That would have been worth the price of admission for me. But, yeah, mechanically it's about as complex as basic Mafia. On the other hand, there are how many varieties of Werewolf, Secret Hitler, etc. out there?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 17:23
|
|
|
Bieeanshee posted:The version a friend had had pages and pages of hilarious bullshitting prompts. That would have been worth the price of admission for me. But, yeah, mechanically it's about as complex as basic Mafia. On the other hand, there are how many varieties of Werewolf, Secret Hitler, etc. out there? You're right about Mafia and its variants, though I guess most of the ones people try to sell to folk as commercial products incorporate some form of tactile element or game piece which is where the money is really justified.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 17:32
|
|
|
Found it:quote:Essentially, The Camarilla leadership wanted to make money off White Wolf's IP and didn't want to pay White Wolf for that privilege, and they didn't think White Wolf could tell them what to do with the IP, or had any standing to say what the club could or couldn't do, even as they claimed to be the official fan club and thus directly benefited from that relationship.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 17:40
|
|
|
Wow thanks for digging that up, that's crazy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 17:59
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:I don’t think most of the video game LPs I’ve watched have linked to the game, but maybe I’m misremembering. Probably not but it seems fair to assume people interested enough in video games to watch lets plaus have a pretty goof idea of where to buy video games from. hyphz posted:I think that can be the reverse. What GMing works in a podcast may not work outside one, and what works for people with the talent to be successful podcasters might not work for anyone else. There are some games that straight up wouldn't work in a podcast but I don't see how being able to keep a compelling conversation going on a podcast wouldn't translate well to GMing. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Mar 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 18:44
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:There are some games that straight up wouldn't work in a podcast but I don't see how being able to keep a compelling conversation going on a podcast wouldn't translate well to GMing. IIRC the particular thing he mentioned is that there's less room to meander around in the game/world, and that having to push things forward so much can work to the detriment of certain styles of play.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 19:01
|
|
|
Skarka already tried the "paid in exposure" argument in that twitter thread but it doesn't quite hold water because he isn't being paid in exposure, he's being paid for the work that he did making the game which was then bought and paid for. Nobody's demanding he make a brand new bespoke RPG which will be "paid" for in being liveplayed. I mean I agree that RPG writers get paid peanuts and that fuckin sucks. Thankfully there are means and methods these days to help ameliorate that, like crowdfunding where a designer can attempt to get paid what they feel their work is worth instead of simply hoping for a penny a word, not that crowdfunding is a perfect cure-all but it's better than the old days of self-publishing requiring you to buy 10,000 copies of your fantasy heartbreaker up front or freelancing and getting stiffed on your paychecks. Of course GMS pretty well burned that particular bridge to the ground and doesn't really have anyone to blame for that but himself. Meanwhile yes, giving shout-outs is a nice courtesy, and if GMS and Wallace had said "hey guys, do us a favor and drop some links when you do these podcasts!" nobody here would bat an eye, but that's not really what they're doing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 19:37
|
|
|
Genius: https://twitter.com/skinnyghost/status/973628012900970496
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 19:44
|
|
|
Wallis has more of a legitimate argument, though I think he's framing it the wrong way - both in terms of how he's making it and in how he's thinking about it. Skarka is entirely and hilariously full of poo poo as per usual though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 19:48
|
|
|
Comrade Gorbash posted:I know that Austin Walker, who GMs the Friends at the Table actual plays, has talked about how some of what they do is consciously about making for an enjoyable show and while it's still fun to play that way, requires effort or choices he wouldn't make if it wasn't being recorded. Another example from Friends at the Table, they stop playing Technoir in favor of The Sprawl because when Austin was working on editing an episode with the normal editor he realized that Technoir is a great game to play but pretty dull to listen to passively. The players talked in the postgame about how changing systems to The Sprawl changed how they acted and approached their characters because of the way the character mechanics forced them into approaches.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 19:51
|
|
|
slap me and kiss me posted:Me neither, but in fairness, it's way easier to track down where to buy The New Colossus than it is to find a smallprint rpg. Nuns with Guns posted:Probably not but it seems fair to assume people interested enough in video games to watch lets plaus have a pretty goof idea of where to buy video games from. I think Steam for one and DTRPG for the other, if not just googling the name outright maybe with “game” or “rpg” if needed. It would be really good if that was in reality a big barrier to growth, though, because it could be so easily addressed!
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 19:55
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:There are some games that straight up wouldn't work in a podcast but I don't see how being able to keep a compelling conversation going on a podcast wouldn't translate well to GMing. Player (and GM) motivation, for one thing. If a player’s favourite PC dies in a private game, it’s annoying and upsetting for them. If it’s a podcasted game, they can spin it as a “plot twist” for podcast listeners. A few free copies and advertising bucks make up for a lot, including - possibly - not really liking the game that much.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 19:57
|
|
|
what
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 20:12
|
|
|
Yeah I don't think that's a thing. More realistically, you do get things like "I'm going to go along with plan X in the interests of getting an episode done and because we'll have fun shenanigans along the way and the audience will appreciate it" when maybe a non-recorded game you'd talk it out for another ten minutes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 20:15
|
|
|
Google searching "baron munchausen game" immediately pops up multiple links to purchase it, and so while I agree in the abstract that giving shout-outs and links is a courteous thing to do the idea that someone might be internet and nerd savvy enough to listen to the Yogscast playing an RPG but be incapable of using a search engine in 2018 seems a bit suspect to me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 20:22
|
|
|
"The OGL is not enforced by anyone" - man calling himself game designer in 2018
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 20:31
|
|
|
hyphz posted:Player (and GM) motivation, for one thing. If a player’s favourite PC dies in a private game, it’s annoying and upsetting for them. If it’s a podcasted game, they can spin it as a “plot twist” for podcast listeners. A few free copies and advertising bucks make up for a lot, including - possibly - not really liking the game that much. I'd say the opposite is true: characters on streams have fandoms, and an unexpected death is going to have huge consequences for the game's following - far more so than in a private game. Plus, I don't think there's a stream out there playing a game they don't like because they got merch. If anything the opposite is true - the arc seems to be that people start playing a game because they like the sound of it, and then maybe gets merch from the publisher if the stream is big.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 20:42
|
|
|
Flavivirus posted:I'd say the opposite is true: characters on streams have fandoms, and an unexpected death is going to have huge consequences for the game's following - far more so than in a private game. I meant disliking the game rather than the system (although there certainly are podcasts that just ignore the system). But if someone’s constantly racking up bad rolls, for example, then in a podcast they can play that to the audience. In a private game it just sucks to be them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 20:53
|
|
|
In a private game you laugh about bad rolling with the friends you’re playing with.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 20:58
|
|
|
Another thing that's different with actual plays that I've heard talked about: the GM has to be more cognizant of ending at a place that makes for a good episode. Not only does that influence pacing a lot, but it sometimes means the group will push through another half hour to get to an end point when in a home game you'd just call it a night.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 21:03
|
|
|
This is tricky for us because a lot of the games we review are legitimately hard to find anyway. But when they are on DTRPG, we have a link right there on the site and we know people are using it (because we get 5% if they buy something). Really though it wouldn't be hard for me to do some basic legwork to help sell the in print stuff, it'd just compromise my principles to say "this game calls trans people drag queens and treats them like hilarious traps, and you can buy it for a low low price at the following link!" Comrade Gorbash posted:Another thing that's different with actual plays that I've heard talked about : the GM has to be more cognizant of ending at a place that makes for a good episode. Not only does that influence pacing a lot, but it sometimes means the group will push through another half hour to get to an end point when in a home game you'd just call it a night. Running AP is so different from just gaming that it's almost better if the players aren't especially experienced gamers. The ones I've done have all at least had timed breakpoints, like "we should shoot for some sort of climax at the one hour mark, and you two should have the argument that's been brewing." Verité is boring to listen to. theironjef fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Mar 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 21:03
|
|
|
Comrade Gorbash posted:Another thing that's different with actual plays that I've heard talked about : the GM has to be more cognizant of ending at a place that makes for a good episode. Not only does that influence pacing a lot, but it sometimes means the group will push through another half hour to get to an end point when in a home game you'd just call it a night. And that, from some casts, means more deus ex Machina episode endings - and players who are more tolerant of them, because they have an interest in the podcast succeeding too. Honestly, it’s just a question of asking “would these people still play, and play like this, if the mic was gone?” And the answer is often, at best, “Umm.”
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 21:07
|
|
|
hyphz posted:And that, from some casts, means more deus ex Machina episode endings - and players who are more tolerant of them, because they have an interest in the podcast succeeding too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 21:27
|
|
|
Warthur posted:The prompts are very useful if people's creative juices aren't flowing and they're feeling stuck. On the other hand, I kind of feel like Baron Munchausen is the sort of game I'd only ever get around to playing if everyone in the group was feeling very creative anyway - in which case the prompts would probably go untouched. There is also a computer game version of it called Throne of Lies which takes advantage of it being on the computer with things like psychic being able to talk telepathically to someone at night. And contents of whispering during the day being hidden, but not who is doing the whispering and who they are whispering to.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 22:08
|
|
|
Kibner posted:There is also a computer game version of it called Throne of Lies which takes advantage of it being on the computer with things like psychic being able to talk telepathically to someone at night. And contents of whispering during the day being hidden, but not who is doing the whispering and who they are whispering to. Also all the classes have different gimmicks and neutral classes have unique win conditions. The Fool can impersonate other players in whispers, and their goal is to trick the other players into executing them during a trial (it doesn’t count if another player murders them outside a trial). Or neutral killers like the puppet master who can hop from body to body without warning during Night phases. It’s good.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 22:34
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:Woof, those DS movies are awful. "with certain notable exceptions"
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 22:35
|
|
|
That said, it's pretty undeniable that fantasy-based TV series are huge - see the phenomenon Game of Thrones was, see how many of its imitators got at least some traction. The problem comes back to the fact that more distinctive fare has already eaten D&D's lunch in the TV market.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 22:39
|
|
|
Who else is loving hype for the Lord of the Rings prequel series only on Amazon Prime 
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 22:42
|
|
|
Warthur posted:That said, it's pretty undeniable that fantasy-based TV series are huge - see the phenomenon Game of Thrones was, see how many of its imitators got at least some traction. to make my point explicit, I don't think it's even true that american audiences aren't interested in swords & sorcery movies. the IP from which D&D-style fantasy is directly derived gave us six* blockbuster movies in the last couple of decades *yes, six. somehow the hobbit movies made almost as much money as LOTR despite everything
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 22:45
|
|
|
The Middle-Earth films are "Sword and Sorcery" in the sense that both swords and sorcery feature in the films, but they're quite dark in tone whereas I think of the Sword & Sorcery genre - and by extension D&D - as more of a light-hearted experience.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:17
|
|
|
cargohills posted:The Middle-Earth films are "Sword and Sorcery" in the sense that both swords and sorcery feature in the films, but they're quite dark in tone whereas I think of the Sword & Sorcery genre - and by extension D&D - as more of a light-hearted experience. Sword & Sorcery often has a heavy crossover with Weird tales-type stories, and is often bundled in with dark fantasy, because it's often grim, "realistic", and gritty. it can be easygoing just like anything else, but "light-hearted" is not how people would typically first describe the genre as a whole.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:29
|
|
|
cargohills posted:The Middle-Earth films are "Sword and Sorcery" in the sense that both swords and sorcery feature in the films, but they're quite dark in tone whereas I think of the Sword & Sorcery genre - and by extension D&D - as more of a light-hearted experience. Conan's source material is plenty dark at times, it just has a grim sense of humor. I think most mainstream Sword&Sorcery takes itself at least somewhat seriously, with a sardonic edge if anything. D&D on the other hand is light-hearted because that's an easier tone to maintain at the table, thankfully.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:30
|
|
|
cargohills posted:The Middle-Earth films are "Sword and Sorcery" in the sense that both swords and sorcery feature in the films, but they're quite dark in tone whereas I think of the Sword & Sorcery genre - and by extension D&D - as more of a light-hearted experience. since when is the hobbit dark in tone? even LOTR is not particularly dark most of the time and in any case, while d&d has a bunch of influences in there, tolkien is clearly the biggest one, regardless of how you classify it
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 10:27 |
|
|
I don't know what the term "swords and sorcery" exactly embodies, but "guardians of the galaxy: but with swords and sorcery" is basically how almost everyone I've ever played D&D with has handled their game as well as the 4e comic that gets posted sometimes, and that's what I'd expect a D&D movie to be.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2018 23:36
|
|
