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euphronius posted:Palps, maul, Dooku, Anakin, Snoke, Ben Dooku and OT era Darth Vader are a non-denominational Jedi that use of the dark side of the force. PT era Anakin is an orthodox Jedi that uses the dark side of the force. The conflation of the dark side with the Sith religion, exclusively, is a device the Jedi use to demonize their opponents and cover up their misdeeds. Dooku is "a political idealist" of good character only as long as he doesn't threaten Jedi control, and then he's a Sith. The Jedi would have done well not to deal in absolutes.
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Mar 14, 2018 17:54
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Pook Good Mook posted:The movies present the Separatist Government as largely controlled or at least fomented by a Corporation (government?) that invaded and occupied a border world over the taxation of trade routes. It's other members are a Banking Clan and Tecno Union, not put upon and cast out minority groups. They're the bad guys. The Separatists are presented as freakish aliens, and we already know that the Jedi hold their leaders in contempt ("These Federation types are cowards."). They're ultimately just hapless idiots used to unify the Republic. The Jedi are opposed to the invasion because they think it doesn't follow proper procedure, and don't want it legitimized. This is why they rescue Amidala: so that she doesn't have to sign a treaty.
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Mar 14, 2018 17:59
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euphronius posted:Are you making a skin color joke ? Mace Windu practice vapaad which is a fusion of dark and light side techniques.
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Mar 14, 2018 18:01
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I wondered if Mace Windu ever sensed his own death at the hands of Anakin Skywalker and if that's maybe one of the reasons why he distrusted him so dang much.
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Mar 14, 2018 18:09
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sassassin posted:Mace Windu practice vapaad which is a fusion of dark and light side techniques. That's not in the movie.
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Mar 14, 2018 18:10
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AndyElusive posted:I wondered if Mace Windu ever sensed his own death at the hands of Anakin Skywalker and if that's maybe one of the reasons why he distrusted him so dang much. Fear leads to anger etc. etc.
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Mar 14, 2018 18:25
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Mace is a reserved and bored office manager who is only roused to action to defend the Jedi order
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Mar 14, 2018 18:27
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Sure but I mean, it's obvious that even with a seat on the Jedi Council that Mace was a flawed individual. I'd imagine if he had a gnawing uneasy feeling whenever he was around Skywalker that might have lead to his overall dislike of the dude. It would probably be like dealing with a migraine headache when around a co-worker because he's wearing too much AXE bodyspray only in this case it's because you keep getting flashfowards to when he chops off your loving hand before you get flung out a loving window.
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Mar 14, 2018 18:35
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The Jedi call the Trade Federation cowards because everything they do is cowardly. They pick on a small planet that, as far as we know from the movie, played no obvious role in actually imposing the taxes they're protesting; the Jedi show up to negotiate and they send droids down to see them because they're scared of them; when that fails, they try to gas them. After that, Nute Gunray goes down to the planet and goes, "Ahhh! Victory!  " after his droids - who had a separate droid field commander doing most of the actual work - have already gone down and pacified the planet.When I was eight, I had The Official Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace Handbook, which was official (it was right there in the title - George Lucas signed off on all this stuff) and made clear that the Neimoidians' two main qualities were greed and cowardice. Every single thing I read about the movie (and I read a lot of them - I had the Episode I Adventure Journals and everything) all said the Neimoidians are cowardly and greedy. When I saw the movie in the cinema and Qui-Gon said, "These Federation types are cowardly," I knew he was on the level, because I knew that already from my tie-in book.
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Mar 14, 2018 18:41
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Milky Moor posted:easy to see why they cut this. similar to finn as a whole, it's a bit strange to humanise the dudes your heroes will soon cut down en masse, leaving you to wonder if that one stormtrooper was part of the casualties Unless you're a Resistance A-Wing pilot who gets lots of sceentime in the opening fight, only to get blown to smithereens by the bad guys
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Mar 14, 2018 18:50
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Are all of the deleted scenes etc. only on the Blu-Ray? I haven't got a Blu-Ray player.
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Mar 14, 2018 23:44
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sassassin posted:Fighting the bad guys is not the same thing as working for a peaceful galaxy. This isn't moral relativism. Fighting for good is simply not the same thing as working for peace. This is the dumbest loving sa star war take. What about the separatists is popular? Even including clone wars the only seps that star wats portrays are high-ranking CEOs and their robot slaves. They are consistently shown to doa bad things like testing guns on civilians. The relublic, with its flaws, is shown to not do stuff like that. The separatists are deliberately portrayed as evil. They are Objectively Bad Not to mention the whole JEDI BAD WATCH FILM story began when the trade federation tried to gas two diplomats and then finish them with a firing squad. Yes it was the jedi who did bad there sure Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Mar 15, 2018 |
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Mar 15, 2018 00:44
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Schwarzwald posted:Dooku and OT era Darth Vader are a non-denominational Jedi that use of the dark side of the force. PT era Anakin is an orthodox Jedi that uses the dark side of the force. Darth Vader is known as the Dark Lord of the Sith, took a sith name, and did a bunch of sith stuff. Count Dooku became a Sith and took the name Darth Tyranus and did a bunch of sith stuff. Also in official canon materials they are labelled as Sith. Kylo Ren is not a Sith.
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Mar 15, 2018 00:46
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Yeah also Dooku is very explicitly a sith
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Mar 15, 2018 01:02
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Wheat Loaf posted:Are all of the deleted scenes etc. only on the Blu-Ray? I haven't got a Blu-Ray player. I don't know about "all" of the deleted scenes, but there are deleted scenes, making of, yada yada, if you purchase it on iTunes/AppleTV.
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Mar 15, 2018 02:03
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Jerkface posted:Darth Vader is known as the Dark Lord of the Sith, took a sith name, and did a bunch of sith stuff. Count Dooku became a Sith and took the name Darth Tyranus and did a bunch of sith stuff. Also in official canon materials they are labelled as Sith. The idea that a Sith is someone who "does sith stuff" is all too circuitous, and it basically comes down to comparing someone to Palpatine. Is Palpatine a scheming politician? Then that must be a Sith thing. Did Palpatine try to take over the galaxy? That must be a Sith thing, too. Does Palpatine use the dark side? Must be a Sith thing (and kindly ignore the moments the Jedi use the force for questionable purposes). Palpatine does Sith things, and you can tell they're Sith things because Palpatine does them. Dooku is a scheming politician who does work to further seize control of the galaxy, and he does wear dark clothing and have a cherry lightsaber and shoot lightning. But Palpatine doesn't behave as if he were a genuine adherent -- he behaves as if Dooku was no more truthful about being a Sith when Dooku told Obi-wan he wanted to wipe the Sith out -- and so Palpatine has him killed. Unless killing members of the faith is also Sith thing? The larger point to this is that the films don't reveal much about what the Sith faith is, and the few adherents we see are exceptional examples (not every Sith can be the space emperor). When taking about the traditional Sith the Jedi fought in the past, there's even less information.
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Mar 15, 2018 04:59
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:This is the dumbest loving sa star war take. What about the separatists is popular? Even including clone wars the only seps that star wats portrays are high-ranking CEOs and their robot slaves. They are consistently shown to doa bad things like testing guns on civilians. The relublic, with its flaws, is shown to not do stuff like that. The separatists are deliberately portrayed as evil. They are Objectively Bad I'm not saying that fighting the Bad guys is bad. I'm saying that fighting the Bad guys isn't the same thing as being dedicated to peace. The Jedi actively embrace war when Good is threatened. It's a popular movement because a lot of people/planets are involved in it. I'm using very straightforward language here.
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Mar 15, 2018 06:44
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Wheat Loaf posted:Are all of the deleted scenes etc. only on the Blu-Ray? I haven't got a Blu-Ray player. If you buy it on iTunes or Movies Anywhere, you get all of the special features as well. If you buy it on Movies Anywhere, you get the "Score Only" version too, if you're interested in that. And if you connect your iTunes account to your Movies Anywhere Account, it shares movies between the two and you get the Score Only version, too. Movies Anywhere is this cool thing that shares movies between your iTunes, Vudu, Google Play, Amazon Prime, and FandangoNow accounts, so your movies from all 5 show up in Movies Anywhere...but also in all the other accounts. As in, my Vudu movies are in my iTunes now. I guess they plan on making you get used to using your Movies Anywhere account, so you'll eventually buy your movies directly from them, but I never actually go into the thing, since I can just watch everything in iTunes, so I'm not totally sure they'll make that much money. But if more special features are exclusive to Movies Anywhere, like this Score Only feature here, maybe people will go in there more? It's nice, though, because those digital codes for movies I have that were sitting in a Vudu account I don't like using now get me the movie in iTunes, too.
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Mar 15, 2018 13:42
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AndyElusive posted:Is this still something people call Rey unironically in TYOOL 2018? She has no conflict or struggles at all that are well established, she suddenly just knows how to do a bunch of things. I'm not sure what you are getting at but she fits the definition: The only struggle she has is her parents, but still we have no reason to give a gently caress about that. She has a conflict with Ben, because reasons. quote:A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Often, this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment. They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience.
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Mar 15, 2018 19:14
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Not to mention the whole JEDI BAD WATCH FILM story began when the trade federation tried to gas two diplomats and then finish them with a firing squad. Yes it was the jedi who did bad there sure They expecting diplomats and instead the Republic sent two mutant superheroes. How would any nation respond to another party of a negotiation sending, as its delegation, two incredibly powerful warriors? Probably with a great degree of trepidation about whether or not the negotiations were in good faith
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Mar 15, 2018 19:38
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Waffles Inc. posted:They expecting diplomats and instead the Republic sent two mutant superheroes. Trepidation is an interesting way to describe attempted murder.
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Mar 15, 2018 19:40
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Sylink posted:She has no conflict or struggles at all that are well established, she suddenly just knows how to do a bunch of things. I'm not sure what you are getting at but she fits the definition: Nah I just wanted to check if you actually figure she's a Mary Sue. You've had since TFA to find out how she's kinda not as much of one as you're making her out to be and you still figure she is, so there's probably very little in the way of things I could say that would convince you.
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Mar 15, 2018 19:47
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Waffles Inc. posted:They expecting diplomats and instead the Republic sent two mutant superheroes. But you know why they sent them right? Because the Republic new that people wanted to see lightsabers, explosions and force powers 10 minutes into the boring trade negotiations. They did it for the fans.
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Mar 15, 2018 19:48
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s.i.r.e. posted:But you know why they sent them right? Because the Republic new that people wanted to see lightsabers, explosions and force powers 10 minutes into the boring trade negotiations. They did it for the fans. It makes sense if you buy that one of the failures of the Jedi Order and Republic was that there was an intertwining of a weird religious cult and government that probably was never going to be a good idea but nonetheless the Jedi attempted to act in good faith. The funnier part of that scene is that the protocol droid is like "I think those are Jedi" and the two Nemodians are like "Jedi!? Are you sure!?" Which raises the question, did normal Republic negotiators/mediators just walk around in brown cloaks?
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Mar 15, 2018 19:55
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Rey was made OP by the Force as a counter to Ben. And it's not even that OP, she was completely at Snoke's mercy and somewhat fumbles her way into having things work out (See the Rathgars, Convincing Luke, Convincing Ben). She's pretty much the very definition of "do or do not, there is no try." It's probably why Yoda is so high on her. Completely downplaying her overconfidence about saving Ben and her parental issues as irrelevant to her being a Mary Sue is a complete cop out to that argument.
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Mar 15, 2018 20:01
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Pook Good Mook posted:It makes sense if you buy that one of the failures of the Jedi Order and Republic was that there was an intertwining of a weird religious cult and government that probably was never going to be a good idea but nonetheless the Jedi attempted to act in good faith. The protocol droid was the only person who saw them walking around in brown cloaks.
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Mar 15, 2018 21:19
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AndyElusive posted:Nah I just wanted to check if you actually figure she's a Mary Sue. You've had since TFA to find out how she's kinda not as much of one as you're making her out to be and you still figure she is, so there's probably very little in the way of things I could say that would convince you. Not completely, I think she is still a terrible character. Though they all are, its like the screen writers bought one of those "how not to write a novel bigs" then used all the bad ideas instead.
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Mar 15, 2018 22:48
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Teek posted:Rey was made OP by the Force as a counter to Ben. but she's absolutely NOT a chosen one, you guys!
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Mar 15, 2018 23:07
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Remember, Luke’s first use of the force was to guide a bunch of missiles down a miles long shaft while flying a spaceship at hundreds of miles per hour for the first time. Rey did a mind trick and pulled a lightsaber a few feet before beating up an angry guy who’d been shot beforehand.
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Mar 15, 2018 23:37
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Luke had faith. Rey had mutant mind powers. The part where Luke is later revealed to also have mutant mind powers is relevant but not for the reasons it might seem.
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Mar 16, 2018 00:09
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pointing out that rey is a power fantasy and unusually powerful and that's why she's bad is nonsense when we're talking about star wars movies of all things she is however a total snore and the most uninteresting character in a trilogy that's supposed to be about her
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Mar 16, 2018 00:12
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Luke is from a 42 year old movie, Rey is from a movie that came out 6 years ago. What was ok then isn’t necessarily ok now
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Mar 16, 2018 00:33
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Rey either being or not being a Mary Sue doesn't really seem like it's worth getting worked up about. Of course, Star Wars as a whole isn't really worth getting worked up about. Most people are too invested in it compared to other movies.
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Mar 16, 2018 00:35
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irrespective of all other considerations, deciding that the main character of the seventh Star Wars film should be less able than the main characters in the second through sixth films seems unwise.
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Mar 16, 2018 00:37
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What did she even do that was amazing She mind read Kylo ren?
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Mar 16, 2018 00:40
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I played Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight when I was younger, and the main character in that is able to instantly master the Force and defeat seven Dark Jedi (one of whom was a former Jedi master who went over to the dark side) on the same day he picked up a lightsaber for the first time, so perhaps I am just inured to it.
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Mar 16, 2018 00:44
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euphronius posted:What did she even do that was amazing she read his mind when he was trying to read her mind, which is as much about kylo not being as powerful as the image he tries to project than her being naturally talented
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Mar 16, 2018 00:45
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I guess she does the telekinesis trick with the saber .
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Mar 16, 2018 01:09
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she used the force to protect her virginity around kylo ren
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Mar 16, 2018 01:36
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She doesn't have the baggage that Luke had, thinking the Force and Jedi was some wonky religion with crazy stories. She is a true believer: her parents will come back for her; Luke Skywalker did x, y, and z. Initially she thought they were just stories, but she met the legendary Han Solo who told her the Force stuff and such were all true. At that moment she applied the same level of belief she has w.r.t. her parents coming back for her to believing in the Force. Luke had difficulties ANH blocking blaster bolts and training with Yoda in ESB because he had difficulties believing. The movies did a poo poo job showing this and the people saying she is a Mary Sue are somewhat justified because the storytelling is bad.
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Mar 16, 2018 03:07
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