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Chiliasm is just another word for millenialialism.. the idea that, before the end of the world, there's going to be a thousand year reign of divine justice and peace. It wasn't actually condemned at Ephesus, but the Catholic Church, for the most part, hasn't been fond of it. Millenialism really took off after the Protestant reformation, and soon split into two camps, called premillenialism and postmillenialism. Pretty much everybody agreed that Jesus would come back to earth before the end of the world....a doctrine called the Second Coming. But for millenialists, the question was, would he come at the beginning of the millenium or the end of it? The people who took the first view...that Jesus's return would kick off the millenium got called premillenialists, and the people who believed that it would mark the culmination of the millenium got called postmillenialists. (Premillenialism split further into a belief called dispensational premillenialism, and I can go into detail if you want.) This difference in beliefs led to two different worldviews. For postmillenialists, which you see in a lot of traditional Calvinist and Reformed theology, it's mankind's job to bring about the millenium through reform and social change. So that led to thingslike Calvin's Geneva, Boston as a city on a hill, the abolitionist movement, and the Social Gospel, but it's also led to things like Dominionism, which wants to make the US into a theocracy, only let Christians be citizens, and execute gays. Premillenialism says the world is going to hell, and there's nothing we can do about it. You see this a lot in the modern Fundamentalist movement, and it tends to focus more on missionary work and internal spiritual reform and perfection.
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Mar 14, 2018 20:19
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You'll also sometimes see a term called premillenial dispensationalism, which is a niche and extreme Protestant view best known for being espoused and depicted in the Left Behind series - Tim LaHeye and the other author were big into it. The idea of premillenial dispensationalism is that much of the Bible's instructions for how we are to live our lives isn't actually meant for us, it's meant for the millenium after the Second Coming, and that we here today have a special, different calling to which other instructions apply. Precisely which instructions these are is up to your local It's considered a fringe belief even among evangelical Protestants, and many Protestant organizations have officially condemned it since it tends to be used as a justification for behaving in blatantly non-Christian ways, but it has its outspoken adherents. It's one of the reasons why I consider "I like the Left Behind series" to be a deal-breaker for any potential friend or girlfriend I meet at church. 
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Mar 14, 2018 22:12
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Cythereal posted:It's one of the reasons why I consider "I like the Left Behind series" to be a deal-breaker for any potential friend or girlfriend I meet at church. You see there is your problem you go to church where people have read the Left Behind series.
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Mar 14, 2018 22:34
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WerrWaaa posted:You see there is your problem you go to church where people have read the Left Behind series. It's really hard to escape from in evangelical Protestant communities if you're of the right age. They came out when I was a kid and everyone was reading them and making kids read them. I read the first book before telling my mom that I hated every character in it and wanted them all to die. She did not make me read any of the others. I eventually read them from the library out of curiosity, and I'm not sure I've ever read a series of more spiteful, hateful, anti-Christian books that rejoice and glory in the death, humiliation, and suffering of innocent people.
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Mar 14, 2018 22:38
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gently caress i knew catholic kids that read it when i was a kid
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Mar 14, 2018 22:45
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StashAugustine posted:gently caress i knew catholic kids that read it when i was a kid their Big Moods are all spurred by conflict with catholicism, islam, or zoroastrianism, they are unprepared
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Mar 14, 2018 22:52
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Cythereal posted:You'll also sometimes see a term called premillenial dispensationalism, which is a niche and extreme Protestant view best known for being espoused and depicted in the Left Behind series - Tim LaHeye and the other author were big into it. It's not exactly a niche belief when the dispies control the vast majority of Christian media in the US.
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Mar 14, 2018 22:59
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The Phlegmatist posted:It's not exactly a niche belief when the dispies control the vast majority of Christian media in the US. Fair, I suppose. I try very hard to avoid having anything to do with Christian media. Except, in my capacity as a professional librarian, Amish romance novels. Those are really popular with middle aged and elderly women.
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Mar 14, 2018 23:03
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WerrWaaa posted:You see there is your problem you go to church where people have read the Left Behind series. are you a literal teenager irl who goes to a church of only generation z people? or are non American of course
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Mar 14, 2018 23:28
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Cythereal posted:It's really hard to escape from in evangelical Protestant communities if you're of the right age. They came out when I was a kid and everyone was reading them and making kids read them. The Frank Peretti novels (Piercing the Darkness, etc.) are also very bad. I've spent years disabusing people of the bullshit from those.
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Mar 14, 2018 23:33
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HEY GUNS posted:i am fighting a constant rearguard action to prevent orthodox people who don't know what protestants are from just reading anything with "christian" on the title Are they upset with contemporary zoroastrians? That would be quite a feat, really.
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Mar 14, 2018 23:55
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Numerical Anxiety posted:Are they upset with contemporary zoroastrians? That would be quite a feat, really.
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Mar 14, 2018 23:59
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HEY GUNS posted:what is a korv Baby don't hurt me? I wish we knew more about Pre-Islamic conquest Zoroastrianism. I can't hep but think it would be an interesting look into yet another belief system. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Mar 15, 2018 |
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Mar 15, 2018 00:10
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Lutha Mahtin posted:are you a literal teenager irl who goes to a church of only generation z people? or are non American of course No just facetious
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Mar 15, 2018 01:21
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HEY GUNS posted:i am fighting a constant rearguard action to prevent orthodox people who don't know what protestants are from just reading anything with "christian" on the title
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Mar 15, 2018 01:32
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HEY GUNS posted:the physical remains of the people who are important are also important, and they have spiritual power. Therefore stick gold and jewels on them, and wire them into poses where they look like they're sitting up staring at you as sassily as possible So church that is just a Bauhaus record away from doubling as a cheesy 80s goth club? OK, why not.
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Mar 15, 2018 01:33
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I read like all 12 left behind books for some reason, I knew they were bad even before I finished the first one. I guess I was going through a phase because I read all kinds of apocalyptic Christian literature at the time. Most of it was just dreck that I don't even remember anything about. There were a couple interesting ones though I remember reading this one that was written from a Catholic perspective and there's a guy that basically goes on a suicide mission to assassinate the Antichrist, and the book points out that he immediately went to hell because even though it's the Antichrist, and even though the Antichrist was miraculously healed afterwards, he did die and murder is still a sin. The other one was The Christ Clone trilogy which was quite excellent in a Tom Clancy sort of way. Can't say I agree with the theology but it was a great thriller.
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Mar 15, 2018 01:49
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Thanks for the answers. I was both trying to make sense of the Gerson article upthread and also trying to get a sense of the theology of some local churches.
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Mar 15, 2018 02:14
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http://babylonbee.com/news/thrift-stores-landfills-no-longer-accepting-rapture-fiction/
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Mar 15, 2018 02:34
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https://twitter.com/timmarkatos/status/974114954067501056
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Mar 15, 2018 03:58
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Keromaru5 posted:So our "favorite" wannabe-Orthodox white nationalist leader Matthew Heimbach was arrested for domestic battery after being caught in an affair with his father-in-law/spokesman/webmaster's wife. quote:Parrott stood on a box outside the trailer and watched Heimbach and Jessica have sex inside, according to a police report. When the box broke under Parrott’s weight, he entered the trailer to confront them. https://www.thedailybeast.com/matthew-heimbachs-traditional-workers-party-implodes-over-love-triangle-turned-trailer-brawl
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Mar 15, 2018 19:06
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"Yes, we'll catch them right in the act... but first let's give it another minute." I'm still  over the fact that Parrott and I are the same age, and here he is getting into fights with his 26-year-old step-son-in-law over the same woman.
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Mar 15, 2018 19:27
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Keromaru5 posted:Christian Zionism.
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Mar 15, 2018 23:21
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am i supposed to double click?? on the icon
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Mar 15, 2018 23:29
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Lutha Mahtin posted:am i supposed to double click?? on the icon traditionally you kiss it
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Mar 15, 2018 23:33
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whoops wrong thread
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Mar 15, 2018 23:37
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HEY GUNS posted:if you want jewish people to help with that, they hate it too. both religions involved think those dudes are bad and dumb While this is true, it hasn't stopped the Israeli government from taking their money and their political support in the US - the Israelis might not like them, but they're happy to have useful idiots, especially ones with clout.
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Mar 15, 2018 23:47
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Numerical Anxiety posted:While this is true, it hasn't stopped the Israeli government from taking their money and their political support in the US - the Israelis might not like them, but they're happy to have useful idiots, especially ones with clout. where it gets gross is that individual jews don't like the creepy attention and the proselytizing
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Mar 15, 2018 23:52
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forgive me Christianity thread, for i have sinned i pretended to be posting in the wrong thread, just so I could make a terrible dad joke about icons
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Mar 16, 2018 00:44
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I witnessed it was a good joke, and did laugh.
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Mar 16, 2018 00:48
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quote:Parrott stood on a box outside the trailer and watched Heimbach and Jessica have sex inside, according to a police report. When the box broke under Parrott’s weight, he entered the trailer to confront them.  see, everything is medieval
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Mar 16, 2018 00:53
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Today: Latter-Day Saints Missionary: Are you a religious person? Me: Yes, I’m Roman Catholic. LDS Missionary: Are there any Catholic Churches that aren’t Roman? Me, winking at the 23 sui iuris Churches, *I got you fam*
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Mar 16, 2018 00:59
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short version: premillenialists write angry letters to Fox Broadcasting every week but make their kids watch the rapture episode of American Dad because it's a pretty straight documentary Why yes my parents did make me read Hal Lindsey when I was 9, how could you tell? shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 02:48
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Meanwhile, my mom didn't know who Hal Lindsey was, and picked up one of his books last month thinking it was something about the paranormal or conspiracy theories, which she loves. I mean, it kind of is, but not in the same way as, say, classic Fortean Times.
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Mar 16, 2018 03:47
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Keromaru5 posted:Meanwhile, my mom didn't know who Hal Lindsey was, and picked up one of his books last month thinking it was something about the paranormal or conspiracy theories, which she loves. Hal Lindsey was great for me for learning to deal with Christian fiction and theological quackery generally. I bought his pitch as a naive teenager because it was quite compelling, superficially. Gradually figuring out he was full of poo poo really helped me out in learning to be generally skeptical of that sort of stuff. Figuring out exactly how he was wrong really kick-started a lot of Bible study, though, so overall he was helpful despite being an idiot.
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Mar 16, 2018 03:57
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Me: Yes, I’m Roman Catholic. That reads kind of sassy. Was it a genuine question, or is it part of the script they use?
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Mar 16, 2018 09:17
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HEY GUNS posted:what is a korv Swedish potato sausage, it owns owns owns Here's a good recipe, along with adorable kids at St. Lucias day which is a pr big deal in Sweden and Denmark: http://kitchen-parade-veggieventure.blogspot.dk/2009/12/homemade-swedish-potato-sausage.html Tias fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 10:05
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Mr Enderby posted:That reads kind of sassy. Was it a genuine question, or is it part of the script they use? Genuine, he was apparently confused by the moniker “Roman.”
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Mar 16, 2018 20:32
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I just tell Mormons to go take their door-to-door magic underwear sales elsewhere JWs, though, around here must have a contact in city hall because they show up immediately whenever someone dies in your household so that they can pressure a grieving family into joining the cult. This has happened to me and several of my friends. They get a bit of the ol' Calvinism whenever they come around.
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Mar 16, 2018 21:56
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I feel like young mormons are put in an unenviable position being expected to go door to door as a rite of passage. Around here you can always spot them because it'll be a young guy in a shirt and tie riding a bike.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:27
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