|
Yeah, from what I recall it's possible in the Culture universe for Humans to become Minds, it's just . . . at that point how are they still definitionally "human". A caterpillar can't become a butterfly and still call itself a caterpillar. Alternatives exclude; you can't become a new thing while remaining the old thing.
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 16:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:42 |
|
|
Many of the Minds encountered look far more constricted in their individual autonomy than other citizens of their society
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 16:29
|
|
|
It's not even qualitative, it's quantitative. You're going to wind up with 99.99% of your mind being new material. It's going to be hard to qualify as you no matter what the new stuff actually is.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 16:44
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:It's not even qualitative, it's quantitative. You're going to wind up with 99.99% of your mind being new material. It's going to be hard to qualify as you no matter what the new stuff actually is. You could say that about living, learning and experience though. Something we do (well mostly) every day of our lives.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 16:46
|
|
|
papa horny michael posted:Many of the Minds encountered look far more constricted in their individual autonomy than other citizens of their society There's a line in Wizard of Earthsea: quote:You thought, as a boy, that a mage is one who can do anything. So I thought, once. So did we all. And the truth is that as a man's real power grows and his knowledge widens, ever the way he can follow grows narrower: until at last he chooses nothing, but does only and wholly what he must do. Could be an interesting ground there; it could, theoretically, be a function of superintelligence that you functionally lose free will, because free will is premised on a veil of ignorance between yourself and the result of your actions. If you knew, perfectly, what would result from any action you took, your choices would similarly be perfectly predictable; as your knowledge grew towards that perfect total synthesis, so your real range of choices would be reduced. . . You can't roll a random die if you know, perfectly, which way the die will fall for any toss you make.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 16:52
|
|
|
Asher does the transition augmented human -> haiman (human Ai)-> Ai, where you have varying degrees of each and where in some cases haimans transcend to AI.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
Oh hai man
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
I have not read a ton of SciFi in the past (mostly fantasy and ~literature~), but have been on a kick lately. I've started The Culture series with Consider Phlebas and am currently at the game of Damage. I don't like or care about this scene. I've enjoyed parts of the book and have been pretty meh through others. It feels like most scenes don't matter or have much to offer the story. The only Horza scene I've completely enjoyed so far is the fat cannibal, and anything directly involving The Culture or Minds has been rad. I think I like the general idea of what the series is, but so far it's not at all what I expected. I assume this is why people say that CP is perhaps not a great starting point. Getting caught up on this thread I have thrown a ton onto the to-read pile so we'll see if I take a break from the series before the next one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 19:09
|
|
|
Consider Phlebas is a grotesque and unpleasant (but really big!) action movie set in the Culture universe more than it is a 'proper' Culture novel.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 19:14
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:Consider Phlebas is a grotesque and unpleasant (but really big!) action movie set in the Culture universe more than it is a 'proper' Culture novel. That is comforting. The Traitor Baru Cormorant is at the top of my list and sounds real good.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 19:22
|
|
|
Ban Folklore posted:That is comforting. Prepared to be sad, angry, and eager to read more.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 19:26
|
|
|
The biggest literary whiplash I've ever experienced was reading Consider Phlebas and Look to Windward back to back, after having read several other Culture novels years before. Phlebas as "action movie in the culture universe" is a great descriptor: lots of individual set-pieces that are pretty to look at but don't add up to much, where the protagonist is driving the story toward a definite conclusion. Contrast to Windward, which is like a better-written Foundation: endless conversations about essentially the same topic, where nothing really happens on a chapter-to-chapter basis, the protagonists don't do anything (and much like Foundation those protagonists actually have no agency whatsoever, because the outcome was decided by an omniscient Mind from the get-go), but there is ostensibly some philosophical merit to the work as a whole. Windward is unquestionably a better written novel, but frankly I enjoyed Phlebas more, because at least there are stakes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 19:28
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's kinda ridiculous since Wheel of Time censors the sex dramatically Among other things. Have you ever read The Far Snows Dance?
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 20:02
|
|
|
andrew smash posted:Not my future, just the one in Light. Nova Swing is interesting, it's clearly Harrison's tribute to Roadside Picnic with sort of a downbeat nostalgia to it (Saudade city was very appropriately named, to the point that I think some people in an old version of this thread thought it was too on the nose). It does bring to mind the chernobyl exclusion zone, but that shouldn't be a big shock (another recent work obviously derivative of Roadside Picnic is STALKER). My take on the two main areas described in Light & Nova Swing....Motel Splendido & the city of Saudade are spring break tourist destinations/colonies. Like Ibiza, Cancun, Hollywood, LA, Miami Beach, etc. Places built around the tourist trade and/or military bases & intergalactic scavengers slash independently licensed entrepreneurs. the Culture baseline humanoid getting expanded into a Culture Mind. Like I said before, the normal, ha!, Minds of the Culture would either get a deviant Mind like the MeatFucker to half-rear end something up in simulations, or do absolutely nothing at all...because loving around in meat-based brains is freaking disgusting(as per Excession). Half remember the MeatFucker sending out it's mindstate before it decided to 1st contact with the Excession probe, so if any Culture Mind did something like that, it would that creepy deviant MeatFucker.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 20:24
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:There's a line in Wizard of Earthsea: I was thinking of Earthsea exactly.  Banks does go out of his way to show Minds as having limitless ability and materials to realize their goals, but to be proscribed against through rather rigid adherence to social mores. The few who have gone against their fellows are minimal and shunned.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2018 20:46
|
|
|
Finished The Fifth Season, went right on to The Obelisk Gate. Finished that off in a day. Really enjoyed these books. Yes fantasy swearing and euphemisms are stupid but they were still good enough I could ignore it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2018 01:19
|
|
|
Also in the Culture, I imagine that producing new Minds is one of the few things resource intensive enough for them to do that it isn't available on a whim for a daytripping (centurytripping?  ) human.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2018 01:35
|
|
|
The only thing in the culture you could describe as resource-intensive from the culture’s perspective is the Idiran war, I think. There’s very little information about how often more Minds are created and for what reasons, but Consider Phlebas does offer some insights into the process itself and it’s something a single factory ship can do by itself (at least sleeving the Mind in a GSV anyway).
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2018 01:59
|
|
|
andrew smash posted:The only thing in the culture you could describe as resource-intensive from the culture’s perspective is the Idiran war, I think. There’s very little information about how often more Minds are created and for what reasons, but Consider Phlebas does offer some insights into the process itself and it’s something a single factory ship can do by itself (at least sleeving the Mind in a GSV anyway). There's at least one other book where we see a GSV making a smaller ship and it describes it like having a child. Can't recall which one though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2018 02:16
|
|
|
Ban Folklore posted:I have not read a ton of SciFi in the past (mostly fantasy and ~literature~), but have been on a kick lately. I've started The Culture series with Consider Phlebas and am currently at the game of Damage. I don't like or care about this scene. I've enjoyed parts of the book and have been pretty meh through others. It feels like most scenes don't matter or have much to offer the story. The only Horza scene I've completely enjoyed so far is the fat cannibal, and anything directly involving The Culture or Minds has been rad. If you like the Minds read Excession.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2018 12:29
|
|
|
i read excession when i was like 10 and i loved it and never realized it was part of a larger series wow
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2018 17:15
|
|
|
It's weird because excession is way harder to find than the other books. It doesn't even have a larger version with a binding that matches the other trade paperbacks. You can only get a small mass market paperback.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 00:11
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:It's weird because excession is way harder to find than the other books. It doesn't even have a larger version with a binding that matches the other trade paperbacks. You can only get a small mass market paperback. Yeah, I was going to read it after Surface Detail because it sounded the best. Found that there is some copyright bullshit that had it pulled from Audible. I got annoyed and decided I'd settle for a Kindle edition, saw even that isn't available. Went to library and saw they had one single copy which was checked out...
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 00:31
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:It's weird because excession is way harder to find than the other books. It doesn't even have a larger version with a binding that matches the other trade paperbacks. You can only get a small mass market paperback. https://www.bookdepository.com/Excession-Iain-M-Banks/9781857234572
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 00:33
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:There's a line in Wizard of Earthsea: I really like this post, it's a concise way to describe an interesting concept.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 00:41
|
|
|
angel opportunity posted:Yeah, I was going to read it after Surface Detail because it sounded the best. Found that there is some copyright bullshit that had it pulled from Audible. I got annoyed and decided I'd settle for a Kindle edition, saw even that isn't available. Went to library and saw they had one single copy which was checked out... How has the lack of a Kindle version in the US not been resolved after so many years? Does the book secretly contain a Beatle's track or something?
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 00:46
|
|
|
And if, like me, you're a filthy poor, I got a good deal on mine here: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&an=iain+m+banks&tn=excession&kn=&isbn=
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 01:24
|
|
|
angel opportunity posted:Yeah, I was going to read it after Surface Detail because it sounded the best. Found that there is some copyright bullshit that had it pulled from Audible. I got annoyed and decided I'd settle for a Kindle edition, saw even that isn't available. Went to library and saw they had one single copy which was checked out... when this kind of bullshit stops me acquiring an ebook (used to happen reasonably frequently - I'm in Australia which probably made it worse) i'd always get pissed off and go to great lengths to pirate it. perhaps not morally praiseworthy but i don't want to give my money to the australian distributor for their monopoly on the book.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 01:58
|
|
|
Does the trick where you change your amazon address to the UK to order an ebook then change it back still work? I think I heard about it in this thread, because every British sci-fi author gets released like a month earlier over there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 03:32
|
|
|
Clark Nova posted:Does the trick where you change your amazon address to the UK to order an ebook then change it back still work? I think I heard about it in this thread, because every British sci-fi author gets released like a month earlier over there. As far as I know it still works but there were a couple news stories where Amazon locked people's accounts for doing it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 04:24
|
|
|
The Netflix series prompted me to reread (or to be accurate, try the audiobook) Altered Carbon. I’d almost forgotten how loving good that book is.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 05:30
|
|
|
I just looked, both the ebook and audio of Excession are available on both the UK and USA Amazon sites. So I guess whatever issue there was got resolved.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 10:39
|
|
|
andrew smash posted:The Netflix series prompted me to reread (or to be accurate, try the audiobook) Altered Carbon. I’d almost forgotten how loving good that book is. On a related note: After watching the show I wanted to read some other SciFi + Detective + Action stuff (I'd read AC fairly recently) and ended up with Gridlinked by Neal Asher and I'm about a third of the way through and not particularly impressed so far. The first chunk of the book was really generic and bland, especially compared to Banks, Reynolds et al. It suddenly got a lot more interesting though, so I'll stick with it to see if it goes anywhere. Does anyone else have any recommendations? I really enjoyed Altered Carbon, Chasm City (Reynolds), I loved Peter Hamilton's Commonwealth Saga (even though I'm not a huge fan of his other stuff, this actually reminds me a lot of the 'suddenly got a lot more interesting' aspect of Gridlinked). I guess the Hyperion Cantos has elements of this as well, some Iain M Banks fits as well . Edit: Crossover with the Expanse as well, at least the early ones. Essentially looking for books or series where an individual or small team is investigating something amidst bigger sci fi goings on. Gravy Jones fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Mar 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 12:56
|
|
|
Gravy Jones posted:On a related note: After watching the show I wanted to read some other SciFi + Detective + Action stuff (I'd read AC fairly recently) and ended up with Gridlinked by Neal Asher and I'm about a third of the way through and not particularly impressed so far. The first chunk of the book was really generic and bland, especially compared to Banks, Reynolds et al. It suddenly got a lot more interesting though, so I'll stick with it to see if it goes anywhere. Does anyone else have any recommendations? I really enjoyed Altered Carbon, Chasm City (Reynolds), I loved Peter Hamilton's Commonwealth Saga (even though I'm not a huge fan of his other stuff, this actually reminds me a lot of the 'suddenly got a lot more interesting' aspect of Gridlinked). I guess the Hyperion Cantos has elements of this as well, some Iain M Banks fits as well . Something Coming Through by Paul McAuley.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 13:28
|
|
|
Gravy Jones posted:On a related note: After watching the show I wanted to read some other SciFi + Detective + Action stuff (I'd read AC fairly recently) and ended up with Gridlinked by Neal Asher and I'm about a third of the way through and not particularly impressed so far. The first chunk of the book was really generic and bland, especially compared to Banks, Reynolds et al. It suddenly got a lot more interesting though, so I'll stick with it to see if it goes anywhere. Does anyone else have any recommendations? I really enjoyed Altered Carbon, Chasm City (Reynolds), I loved Peter Hamilton's Commonwealth Saga (even though I'm not a huge fan of his other stuff, this actually reminds me a lot of the 'suddenly got a lot more interesting' aspect of Gridlinked). I guess the Hyperion Cantos has elements of this as well, some Iain M Banks fits as well . The Last Policeman .
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 13:29
|
|
|
I reread Altered Carbon after watching the show (hadn't read it in years), but I never moved past it in the Kovacs series. Are the other 2 worth it? The only thing I know about Morgan's writing is that I kinda liked AC, but I'm also annoyed at the over the top sex scenes because he said "I write the sex I've had", and that just seems like such a goony way to answer a question on why you write such explicit scenes. I hear the sequels aren't the same noir style as AC, so I'm just wondering if it's worth grabbing em.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 14:56
|
|
|
Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:I reread Altered Carbon after watching the show (hadn't read it in years), but I never moved past it in the Kovacs series. I enjoyed both sequels, but others I've spoken to haven't. #2 is more MilSciFi with background on the Martians and how the crazy tech came to be as it is. #3 goes into Kovac's past and explores the Quellcrist Falconer [sp?] angle. They are very different books and the sex stays crazy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 15:17
|
|
|
Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:I hear the sequels aren't the same noir style as AC, so I'm just wondering if it's worth grabbing em. How do you feel about Ancient Alien Artifacts and the implications of stack technology in a war torn planet setting?
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 15:17
|
|
|
Thanks for the recs. I think I've figured out what is bugging me about Gridlinked. The protagonist (Cormac) has to be one of the blandest characters I've ever encountered in fiction. There is literally nothing interesting about him. Halfway through the first book in a series so that might change. There's an extent to which it could be plot related as well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 17:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:42 |
|
|
Deptfordx posted:I just looked, both the ebook and audio of Excession are available on both the UK and USA Amazon sites. So I guess whatever issue there was got resolved. I just looked myself, and I couldn't find them. What am I doing wrong?
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2018 17:58
|
|
