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Yusuke should've found more lobsters.
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Mar 14, 2018 06:31
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quote:One small touch I liked is that no matter what, Makoto will never strike a pose for a photo.
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Mar 14, 2018 11:27
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The difference in water can definitely cause stomach problems. Also this trip was boring. Also, can't Ann just ask the hotel staff to unlock her room door? They have spare keys.
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Mar 14, 2018 12:56
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Blademaster_Aio posted:The difference in water can definitely cause stomach problems. Yes but then we would miss the vital scene where the game asks you which teen you'd like to kiss.
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Mar 14, 2018 13:07
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Coq au Nandos posted:Yes but then we would miss the vital scene where the game asks you which teen you'd like to kiss. But Ryuji can ask us that? I mean, never mind. Still better than P4.
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Mar 14, 2018 13:19
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Clarste posted:The most common theory is that they left the whole Hawaii trip in because they'd already commissioned the anime cutscene for it prior to finalizing the story. I can see that, but it still doesn't explain why the writing in this trip feels so disjointed. The update points out small details that are either quietly dropped or seem inconsistent, and I can't help but wonder if another pass through the script would have caught those. Arist posted:
Wait, is this for real?!  I honestly thought Shiho would return to the cast after this school trip and become either the next party member or a Confidant. Like she's the first person in Shujin to have been nice to Maaku, she's the one who suffered the most from Kamoshida the school's incompetence, and she probably would have a huge beef against lovely adults taking advantage of youths. Why would she get dropped???I mean, you could probably replace Mishima with Shiho. You could have Maaku visit her in the physical rehab center, find out she's made the Phan-site on her laptop and that the Phantom Thieves taking down Kamoshida has made her their biggest fan or something.
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Mar 14, 2018 15:15
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The school trip… Shiho was really looking forward to this…
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amigolupus posted:I can see that, but it still doesn't explain why the writing in this trip feels so disjointed. The update points out small details that are either quietly dropped or seem inconsistent, and I can't help but wonder if another pass through the script would have caught those. you can accurately envision this game's writers as a conga line dancing to the beat of "we don't know what we're do-ING"
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Mar 14, 2018 15:42
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amigolupus posted:I mean, you could probably replace Mishima with Shiho. You could have Maaku visit her in the physical rehab center, find out she's made the Phan-site on her laptop and that the Phantom Thieves taking down Kamoshida has made her their biggest fan or something. I wonder if there were any plans to make her a party member or a Confidant.
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Mar 14, 2018 15:55
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Doc Morbid posted:This would be cool because I didn't like how Shiho just disappeared from the plot, but on the other hand it'd mean we wouldn't get to dunk on Mishima for being a total goober. Well, not as much anyway. Yeah, Shiho just disappearing from the plot after her intital appearances is terrible, and I really wish the writers of this game did a lot more with her character instead of the way they played it out.
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Mar 14, 2018 17:21
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Medjed and this bit really showed that they were rewriting large swaths of the story pretty late into the development huh.
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Mar 14, 2018 18:19
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Doc Morbid posted:This would be cool because I didn't like how Shiho just disappeared from the plot, but on the other hand it'd mean we wouldn't get to dunk on Mishima for being a total goober. Well, not as much anyway. While seeing her recover would be a nice story, considering the serious stuff in Shiho's sub-plot and that the writers can be tone-deaf at times, it might for the best that she isn't a Confidant.
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Mar 14, 2018 19:13
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Yeah, seeing the treatment of the other women in this game, I'm... not too broken up about not getting more Shiho.
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Mar 14, 2018 19:50
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resurgam40 posted:Yeah, seeing the treatment of the other women in this game, I'm... not too broken up about not getting more Shiho. What are you talking about.
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Mar 14, 2018 20:04
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amigolupus posted:
They told you right from the start that her parents were going to be moving her to a different school. I agree that she would have been a pretty cool Confidant.
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Mar 14, 2018 21:26
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TheDavies posted:They told you right from the start that her parents were going to be moving her to a different school. I agree that she would have been a pretty cool Confidant. And that new school? Yasogami High. Just watch it happen.
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Mar 14, 2018 22:14
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Mraagvpeine posted:While seeing her recover would be a nice story, considering the serious stuff in Shiho's sub-plot and that the writers can be tone-deaf at times, it might for the best that she isn't a Confidant. Yeah, it's lose-lose situation. Either she comes back and the writers are tone-deaf in handling her scenes, or she's just used as a prop to set up the stakes and never gets brought up again. TheDavies posted:They told you right from the start that her parents were going to be moving her to a different school. I agree that she would have been a pretty cool Confidant. I forgot about that detail. Still, her Confidant scenes could always take place in the physical rehab center, so it wouldn't be that big of a deal. And as the update and Yusuke shows, not even being from a different school would stop a character from hanging out with the crew. 
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Mar 14, 2018 22:57
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Is no one else going to adress the elephant in the room? That Maaku takes his pictures in vertical mode makes me angry! 
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Mar 14, 2018 23:48
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You don't become a Phantom Thief without learning how to break the rules. All of the rules.
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Mar 15, 2018 06:09
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Kal-L posted:Is no one else going to adress the elephant in the room? That Maaku takes his pictures in vertical mode makes me angry! I mean that's fine for non-selfies?
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Mar 15, 2018 06:24
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Taking photos in portrait is perfectly fine. Recording video that way is a crime against humanity.
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Mar 15, 2018 06:30
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Kay Kessler posted:And that new school? Yasogami High. Just watch it happen. That would be an interesting way to bring her back in the inevitable Persona 5 Arena Infinimax, with Shiho in Labrys' role. But only if they can talk Tamura Yukari into doing her voice.
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Mar 15, 2018 06:36
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Arist posted:it's been longer than I've ever gone without updating, and I apologize  this is a good lp thanks for sticking with it
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Mar 16, 2018 05:40
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I wish Hawaii got it's own loading screen.Robindaybird posted:Medjed and this bit really showed that they were rewriting large swaths of the story pretty late into the development huh. The entire game was rewritten after the tsunami in 2011, and probably had a few more rewrites since then. resurgam40 posted:Yeah, seeing the treatment of the other women in this game, I'm... not too broken up about not getting more Shiho. ...What? The game's perfectly fine with it's treatment of women, putting aside that bit with Yusuke where you can't really call Ryuji out for being a jerk to Ann. Blademaster_Aio posted:The difference in water can definitely cause stomach problems. Persona 3 taught me that Japanese water has less calcium and magneseum in it than American water!
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Mar 16, 2018 10:39
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Ann, Shiho and Kawakami are the only real 'bad' women treatments I think. Hifumi's got some possible sexist things if you really squint, but it isn't really a major issue. Still not great, but it's a lot better than P3/4. Now if they could just work on how they treat gays.
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Mar 16, 2018 11:53
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Cuntellectual posted:I wish Hawaii got it's own loading screen. It does.
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Mar 16, 2018 12:42
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ApplesandOranges posted:Ann, Shiho and Kawakami are the only real 'bad' women treatments I think. Hifumi's got some possible sexist things if you really squint, but it isn't really a major issue. Do we count that Maaku has had to save Takemi, Hifumi, Kawakami and presumably by changing the hearts of the awful people in their lives as part of the bad treatment? Like on one hand, I can see it fitting in with the game's themes of people being abused by an uncaring system. On the other hand, I can also see it being argued that it turns them into damsels and removes some agency in their links. Also, I don't think we've even ran into a male Confidant who needed saving at some point in their link. Though I guess maybe we'd end up helping Iwai or Mishima down the line?
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Mar 16, 2018 12:57
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amigolupus posted:Also, I don't think we've even ran into a male Confidant who needed saving at some point in their link. Though I guess maybe we'd end up helping Iwai or Mishima down the line? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we simply don't have progressed the male Confidants' links to the point they need help. It does look like it will be a theme with Confidants, and besides it gives you a little miniboss fight to cap the link.
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Mar 16, 2018 13:04
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amigolupus posted:Do we count that Maaku has had to save Takemi, Hifumi, Kawakami and presumably by changing the hearts of the awful people in their lives as part of the bad treatment? Like on one hand, I can see it fitting in with the game's themes of people being abused by an uncaring system. On the other hand, I can also see it being argued that it turns them into damsels and removes some agency in their links. Takemi and Kawakami were already resolving to start improving (and in Kawakami's case, even confront the Takases), so I don't think it's that detrimental that they needed some extra help. And Hifumi had no idea the crazy stunts that her mother was pulling, but she's a pretty confident woman as is. It's more of the former, I'd say. If anything, Makoto was more of a damsel in distress since she landed herself and the team in such hot soup and it took being yanked into the Metaverse for her to really start being able to fight back. And you could just as easily argue that Yusuke needed to be pulled into the Metaverse to really see how twisted Madarame was. And hey, you had to save Ryuji right at the start of the game!
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Mar 16, 2018 13:04
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LupusAter posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we simply don't have progressed the male Confidants' links to the point they need help. It does look like it will be a theme with Confidants, and besides it gives you a little miniboss fight to cap the link. Yeah, it's why I mentioned Iwai and Mishima's links. I guess Tora never needed any saving in his link, but then again his link never really had anyone nasty screwing him over. ApplesandOranges posted:Takemi and Kawakami were already resolving to start improving (and in Kawakami's case, even confront the Takases), so I don't think it's that detrimental that they needed some extra help. And Hifumi had no idea the crazy stunts that her mother was pulling, but she's a pretty confident woman as is. It's more of the former, I'd say. If anything, Makoto was more of a damsel in distress since she landed herself and the team in such hot soup and it took being yanked into the Metaverse for her to really start being able to fight back. These are all good points, thanks! 
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Mar 16, 2018 13:27
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amigolupus posted:Yeah, it's why I mentioned Iwai and Mishima's links. I guess Tora never needed any saving in his link, but then again his link never really had anyone nasty screwing him over. Not in the present, no, but he was the target of a big scandal years ago which was no doubt completely false.
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Mar 16, 2018 13:53
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AweStriker posted:Not in the present, no, but he was the target of a big scandal years ago which was no doubt completely false. Tora's scandals were genuine, which is why he's so penitent in the present day. He doesn't need any saving because he's already got his poo poo mostly together and just needed a little support to get him over that last hurdle.
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Mar 16, 2018 14:48
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What rank are we with Tora right now?
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Mar 16, 2018 14:53
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So we have, in fact, forgotten all about the beach outing, and the pains took there (as they have been since P3) to get all the fetishization of girls in swimsuits that they can, and then some? And yes, I suppose it is better now that we don't have Yosuke to open his big, stupid mouth (or for the protagonist to agree with him, for some ungodly reason), or that the girls don't act uncharacteristically awful in a scene because men are like this but women are like this, dontcha know, or that we don't have some fat girl to mock for being fat*... but this is still a game in which Ohya deflects suspicion against her by pretending to go out with a teenager, a thing which goes completely unremarked upon or deconstructed by the game. That there are so many plots dedicated to some of the terrible things that happen to women and girls in society is fine, but it clashes when the story uses a lot of tropes which have their origins in sexist thought. People have been talking about such moments as they come up, but then seem to lose the thread, but I havent forgotten such moments and nor do I wish to. We can and should do better than we have done, for women and for other minorities. So fine: yes, I admit that this game is in some ways better than the other persona games and for a lot of other games. And I freely admit that a lot of this griping is just me being a Grumpy Old (Asexual) Man muttering about the drat kids on his lawn and his own personal gripes... but surely, it would be nicer if we stopped objectifying women, right? And stopped commenting on what people of both genders wear and how they wear it when they go out- it's a free country, and I have better things to do with my time than to comment about how other people use their freedom of expression. And speaking of freedom, I wish the gun-havers would kindly shut up about their second amendment rights, or at least stopped shooting black people and kids. If you want to give someone guns, why not to sex workers? Then they could overthrow their exploitative pimps, form a union, and start demanding a 15 dollar minimum wage. Which is something we all need. As well as universal health care. And stop globally warming the planet. And sto raping women and children you freaks. And GET OFF MY GODDAMNED LAWN! *Who really should have been in the party/ a lot more involved than she was. I mean, she wasn't nice, but she knew what she wanted and had a degree of awareness and body acceptance that I found refreshing, and a lot more interesting and memorable than short, thin unblemished girl number umpteen. (Or maybe I just remember her fondly as her appearances corresponded to Yosuke eating poo poo, but my opinion stands.)
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Mar 16, 2018 15:51
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are you okay?
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Mar 16, 2018 16:18
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I look past the animated cutscenes, because they so very obviously had to work around the Things They Paid For Ages Ago Even If People Act Uncharacteristic From The Final Product. Like a beach scene is still a beach scene and I'm not expecting the girls to all inexplicably wear one-pieces (especially Ann).
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Mar 16, 2018 16:18
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resurgam40 posted:So we have, in fact, forgotten all about the beach outing, and the pains took there (as they have been since P3) to get all the fetishization of girls in swimsuits that they can, and then some? And yes, I suppose it is better now that we don't have Yosuke to open his big, stupid mouth (or for the protagonist to agree with him, for some ungodly reason), or that the girls don't act uncharacteristically awful in a scene because men are like this but women are like this, dontcha know, or that we don't have some fat girl to mock for being fat*... but this is still a game in which Ohya deflects suspicion against her by pretending to go out with a teenager, a thing which goes completely unremarked upon or deconstructed by the game. That there are so many plots dedicated to some of the terrible things that happen to women and girls in society is fine, but it clashes when the story uses a lot of tropes which have their origins in sexist thought. People have been talking about such moments as they come up, but then seem to lose the thread, but I havent forgotten such moments and nor do I wish to. We can and should do better than we have done, for women and for other minorities. I don't know if you need less drugs, or more drugs. But it's probably one of those.
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Mar 16, 2018 16:37
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Mar 16, 2018 16:43
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Oh dear, did I worry people again? I didn't really mean that to be taken wholly seriously; I'm personally doing quite well, and am much happier and healthier than I was, say, a year previous. Things like that whole spiel just sort of happen on days when I'm the only one at work, am extremely bored, and In A Mood. Good thing this thread isn't about Monster Hunter World, or I'd be yelling about the game being a celebration of colonialism and the promotion of trophy hunting, and how if I want to play a game about savaging a beautiful critter just minding his own business and wear its guts for garters, I should at least be made to feel a little bad about it, as in Shadow of the Colossus. ...Not for nothing did I get my av, is what I'm saying.
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Mar 16, 2018 17:50
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Have you considered stepping outside
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Mar 16, 2018 18:09
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1) Yosuke is funny and cute and cool and my boyfriend and I like him and yea he's an idiot but he listened to me when I set him straight close to the end game of P4 so actually he's Good (tm) and I'll fistfight anyone who wants to argue with me 2) These animated cutscenes and other sexualized content in P5 can be dumb and silly but I feel like it's important to understand that they are a Japanese product from Japan and frankly while I'm not thrilled with them I think this thread's reaction to them is seriously over the top and it's because patriarchial Westerners keep projecting their patriarchial imperialist Western values on Japan which is Gross (tm) so stop doing that 3) It's a loving video game dude HIJK fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 18:21
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