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First practice of the morning, prototypes. But they also sent out the PC cars. 2nd practice of the week and a PC already biffed it in 8.
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Mar 15, 2018 13:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaWwEJhqEm0
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Mar 15, 2018 18:49
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Shank is already racking up quite the parts bill for this year. Marks stuffed it in practice. http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/148076-significant-work-ahead-for-msr-after-practice-crash
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Mar 15, 2018 23:20
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The two Mazda’s topping night practice at Sebring tells me no other prototypes went out for night practice...right?!?!?
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Mar 16, 2018 02:51
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I don't think pace is going to be the issue for the Mazdas this year, it's going to be maintaining their pace for 12 hours without blowing the engine up
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Mar 16, 2018 03:36
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Yeah the thing is the Mazdas are quick but in order to bring that little 4 banger up to the power needed to run at the DPi level, they're having to put several bar worth of boost into it and the drat things come apart. If Mazda made a V6 engine still it would probably have found its way into the prototype but Mazda is dedicated to tiny engines so 
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Mar 16, 2018 04:30
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Renesis 2 when.
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Mar 16, 2018 06:44
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Road and Track wrote an article about the death of a Mazda racing piston during the 24H of Daytona, it's an excellent read on exactly what kind of hell an endurance race is on the components of an engine. https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a25671/the-short-brutal-life-of-a-racing-piston/ Some quotes: quote:It's said that every mile of road racing is equivalent to 1000 miles on a public highway. That's easy to believe. From a mechanical standpoint, the sheer brutality of endurance racing is staggering. A 24-hour race like Daytona is World War II waged in a suitcase strapped to a roller coaster—hundreds of thousands of explosions and unimaginable heat, friction, stress, and violence, hour after hour, for one full rotation of the earth... orange juche fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 09:02
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FYI that article is from 2015, but yeah, interesting details on the engineering.
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Mar 16, 2018 10:32
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BMW 1st and 3rd in Sebring quals. They really shoulda waited until LeMans to bust out that speed. e: all 10 DPIs within a second. Race pace will be interesting for sure. Cygni fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 18:19
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IMSA just needs to split out the DPis and LMP2s. The BoP between P2 and DPi is a joke. P1-10 is all DPi. P11-16 is all LMP2. The only way a P2 can get up there is reliability, since the DPi's have a tendency to break. e: 4 tenths between the slowest DPi and the fastest P2.
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Mar 16, 2018 18:38
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MazeOfTzeentch posted:IMSA just needs to split out the DPis and LMP2s. The BoP between P2 and DPi is a joke. P1-10 is all DPi. P11-16 is all LMP2. The only way a P2 can get up there is reliability, since the DPi's have a tendency to break. Or FIA needs to allow DPi, and stop all this poo poo.
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Mar 16, 2018 21:26
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iwentdoodie posted:Or FIA needs to allow DPi, and stop all this poo poo. yeah Its worth noting that the DPi programs have like 5x the budget of any of the privateers, which means lots of shaker rig and offseason sebring testing time. Which means better shock programs. Which means kicking rear end at sebring. Daytona is more privateer friendly cause there is less private testing there and its so smooth.
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Mar 16, 2018 21:40
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iwentdoodie posted:Or FIA needs to allow DPi, and stop all this poo poo. Cygni posted:yeah ACO/FIA have already expressed their willingness to integrate DPi under the LMP1 category, which would allow manufacturers to run the cars with custom engines and bodywork, which when you look at it, I think the Rebellion LMP1 is just an LMP2 chassis with a custom engine and some bodywork. This would allow the FIA to boost their entrant numbers for worldwide competiton, and allows teams to go across the pond and around the world if they want and race in the LMP1 class with the same car. As long as the BoP targets for LMP1 and DPi match up after the 2020 homologation, they should be pretty competitive with each other. I don't know what will happen to hybrid efforts post 2020 if Toyota doesn't obligate beyond that point, maybe FIA will write it off as a loss as they've already integrated LMP1HY into LMP1? Also apparently all of the folks looking at getting started in DPi, are also involved in developing new LMP1 regulations for 2020, so they're probably going to push to have DPi become the global platform for prototype endurance racing. http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/brown-dpi-a-good-starting-point-for-global-prototype-platform/ Also Scott Atherton and Jim France are on the record saying that basically whatever happens, IMSA and DPi is in a position of strength compared to LMP1 right now with participation, and so they are working with the teams to basically bully the ACO into getting what IMSA wants as the accepted global specification beyond 2020, as the silly amounts of hybrid money have completely disappeared, and the ACO doesn't really have anything to offer right now beyond Le Mans participation. orange juche fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 22:32
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ACO fuckin sucks
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Mar 16, 2018 23:54
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quote:as the silly amounts of hybrid money have completely disappeared ...because one brand got taken out by a diesel scandal, and the other topped up its marketing value for the decade by winning Le Mans three times and then deciding to gently caress off? I think the “silly money” part is important, but it’s mostly because no manufacturers wanted to spend the resources on a rules set that’s good for at most two more years before changing. And because Peugeot is thrifty as hell. DPi isn’t a fair comparison because I bet it’s 1/10th the budget P1 is.
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Mar 17, 2018 00:57
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It is absolutely hilarious how quick the FIA came around once LMP1HY died though. In 2016 going into 2017 they flat out banned DPi from ever competing in the WEC, and said the teams could not participate at Le Mans unless they were to purchase an LMP1HY and run a full manufacturer effort, and now less than 2 years later they're basically begging to get participation of any kind in the WEC. The pendulum of endurance racing is a bitch.
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Mar 17, 2018 01:22
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All I want to say is that if you're an endurance fan in the US and you aren't camped at Sebring, you're missing the gently caress out. Also seems like the bop worked, BMW successfully got their cars to the front by...having a poo poo car. They also sound like farts and I hope they both have mech failures. GT3 cup was surprisingly fun to watch, but I really have to find some kind of highlight pkg for it. I was in 10, and suddenly 3 cars appeared that all had completely hosed right front suspension. One car spun all on his own on the brakes, kissed the wall (literally just paint transfer) and then puttered away. #7 Acura had a big spin out of 10, almost ate the wall, but saved it. None of the prototypes or LM cars have had traction on braking or exit of 10 this week, and 11 is basically a 4 wheel slide. Hairpin is fun to watch, but it feels like more exciting things happen elsewhere. Dem brake rotors at night, tho. Mazda is running a poo poo ton of rear brake bias compared to everyone else. That or they tune the brakes even worse than the engine.
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Mar 17, 2018 04:01
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harperdc posted:...because one brand got taken out by a diesel scandal, and the other topped up its marketing value for the decade by winning Le Mans three times and then deciding to gently caress off? Both brands got taken out by diesel scandals. Porsche wasn't looking to leave until it broke that they were looking at the Porsche SUV diesels for emissions cheating, then rumours went into overdrive that Porsche was looking to jettison the program. orange juche posted:ACO/FIA have already expressed their willingness to integrate DPi under the LMP1 category, which would allow manufacturers to run the cars with custom engines and bodywork, which when you look at it, I think the Rebellion LMP1 is just an LMP2 chassis with a custom engine and some bodywork. It's gonna end in tears, that much I can promise you. The more "prestigious" racing teams as well as the most "sports" oriented brands that the ACO/FIA love to court (I think they want a "Ferrari in F1" but for Le Mans) will want way more say in chassis design and development and the other brands (the ones the ACO/FIA really want but never want to admit they want) will want costs kept low. Over time some of the manufacturers are going to bail due to noncompetitiveness and development costs going up as the sportier brands slowly "evolve" the regs to feature more development. It'll prolly spill over into IMSA too since they'll prolly try to keep their regs in line with what the FIA does in an attempt to maximise the field. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 05:32
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If DPi is going to mean BoP in the top class at LeMans, it can gently caress right off.
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Mar 17, 2018 09:50
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Dudley posted:If DPi is going to mean BoP in the top class at LeMans, it can gently caress right off. The bigger deal is I doubt the ACO wants to allow any manufacturers a route to P1 that doesn’t involve the World Championship. Petty, but that’s the likely case.
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Mar 17, 2018 11:25
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harperdc posted:The bigger deal is I doubt the ACO wants to allow any manufacturers a route to P1 that doesn’t involve the World Championship. Petty, but that’s the likely case. I don't really understand how that's petty? I doubt IMSA was interested in the ballooning LMP1 costs and I double doubt they were ever going to be willing to let Porsche, Audi, Toyota or Peugeot bring their insanely over budgeted LMP1-HYs over to Daytona and/or Sebring without all of them running the rest of the schedule. Hell, I doubt they're keen on the privateer LMP1 entries that are about to explode in interest as Toyota pulls out and more constructors get involved. The flipside is that it's smart of the ACO to try and foster a competition with Le Mans as the crown jewel because that will hopefully strengthen the field at Le Mans long term, just like how the France family made a smart decision investing in a series where a race at Daytona and Sebring are the crown jewel events. Final Edit: The only people it's petty for are racing fans who long for a unified endurance series (which is literally never going to happen because in part because gently caress The France Family and in equal part gently caress The Ferrari International Assistance group). Schlesische fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 11:54
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BoP already exists in LMP1 with the Equivalence of Technology thing, post LMP1-HY implosion. I don't have exact numbers on the costs of an LMP1-HY program but it was several hundred million per year per car, and while the FIA is loath to admit that they don't want 1-2 teams to come in and dominate the entire series by throwing down a Fort Knox sized pile of Euros and drive everyone else the gently caress out, they realize they would benefit more both in fan interest in races, driver interest and team interest in participating if they think they can compete for class and race wins, by keeping things a bit more even in the performance category. Right now they're basically going to give the conventional LMP1s bigger fuel reservoirs, a power and torque boost, and a weight reduction allowance to allow them to seriously challenge for race wins, because unless they do that, LMP1 is going to fold at the end of the season again if Toyota manages to walk over the field due to having cars that cost more than the entire rest of the LMP1 stable.
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Mar 17, 2018 13:18
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Couple of points: -From memory, Equivalency of Technology was mostly to equalize diesel vs. gasoline when Audi was still around. and to produce the different power levels available as teams gained more from hybrid power from 2014-16. It was more once-per-year, as opposed to BoP, which happens much more frequently (depending on championship, IMSA is the most active if memory serves). (The crazy thing is they didn't have anybody come in and run everybody else off, which was partially the EoT and partially because the three teams took different approaches to answer the same question. I'm going to miss this hybrid era). -Toyota was spending the least of the three manufacturers and it was over $150 mil/year, all told. Engineering and marketing/activation both I believe. -Remember that this 'season' is going to last until June 2019, and the next rules set is probably only going to be introduced from the following season. And since they just opened up LMP1 for more privateers, I don't think they would force these guys to change cars too quickly. Whatever comes next is going to have to allow for some crossover, probably at least one year so that the new 2018 cars can be used until probably Le Mans 2021 (the end of the 2020-21 season). -Toyota is already kinda worried that the privateer P1s are going to be running them close. A P2 came two failures away from winning outright last year, and these will probably be even faster...reliability is the big question.
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Mar 17, 2018 13:32
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LMP1-HY was comparable to a mid-tier F1 program (in 2016 Audi's budget was reported at 242mil, in 2017 Porsche's spending was estimated at 200mil and Toyota is reportedly still at around 100mil; don't ask me currencies, I can't find them - given the sources I'm going to assume Euros), not vastly in excess of it. It's a lot compared to the US motorsports, but it's a drop in the ocean compared to F1, where the spending window in 2016 was between ~50mil (for presumably Sauber) and 470mil for Ferrari (again, I assume Euros; also holy poo poo that enormous gap between the lower tier teams and the manufacturer teams; I think Mercedes might have spent more but I cba googling that number). If Audi wanted to come into F1 and walk away with some silverware in 5 years (which is the Audi way) they'd need to roughly double their expenditure at minimum. And the idea of modern Audi/Porsche going to IMSA because seems super unlikely IMHO. The marketing value for Audi in that is negligible in this day and age. The FIA appears to want teams that want to build themselves around Endurance racing the same way Audi did in the early 2000s. And For What Its Worth there's a decent chance Peugeot would have stuck around if they hadn't made several interesting business calls and been smashed in the balls by the GFC, likewise I still believe one of Audi or Porsche would've survived if the Emissions Cheating Scandal hadn't occured. LMP1-HY was born into a world that it absolutely didn't fit into and the decision to chase it down the rabbit hole is going to kill LMP1 and prolly this iteration of WEC. I absolutely don't believe a DPi formula is the fix to that. As to the Toyota thing: they're precooking their excuses so they come out well done when Alonso's car stalls about 4 hours in and the other car gets totaled by a Ferrari GTE-Am car. It's doubtful they want to stay in Le Mans long term. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 13:56
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Morning practice was a slidy poo poo show that I'm surprised they even ran. The temp differential is so great that it can't be too much useful data. At 8 when they did it it's still colder than anything they'll experience during the race. But there is something amazingly special about having prototypes be your alarm clock.
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Mar 17, 2018 14:15
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Schlesische posted:LMP1-HY was comparable to a mid-tier F1 program (in 2016 Audi's budget was reported at 242mil, in 2017 Porsche's spending was estimated at 200mil and Toyota is reportedly still at around 100mil; don't ask me currencies, I can't find them - given the sources I'm going to assume Euros), not vastly in excess of it. $200m is supposedly what Mercedes' F1 program spends on engine development alone.
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Mar 17, 2018 14:58
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1 turn in and Pla bins it
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Mar 17, 2018 15:41
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CactusWeasle posted:1 turn in and Pla bins it I've done that a bout a million times in Forza lol
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Mar 17, 2018 15:44
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Congrats IMSA, you ruined the most exciting class to watch because BMW can't build a car. This isn't even fun to see.
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Mar 17, 2018 15:56
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what the poo poo I went to go piss and now a ferrari is upside down (my stream is like 7 minutes behind) *edit* lol at them in slow motion going "gently caress gimme the yellow flag!"
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Mar 17, 2018 16:02
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Rule 1: rubber side down
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Mar 17, 2018 16:05
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Basticle posted:what the poo poo I went to go piss and now a ferrari is upside down (my stream is like 7 minutes behind) Ferrari decided to ramp it over a prototype Gj Ferrari
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Mar 17, 2018 16:06
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Can a mod rename this thread Ramp It Ferrari
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Mar 17, 2018 16:08
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#2 officially out, all because Pla tried to win it in the first corner
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Mar 17, 2018 16:17
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Basticle posted:I've done that a bout a million times in Forza lol They even said "We got some Forza action here" on the broadcast 
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Mar 17, 2018 16:21
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Both Mazdas are still running and not on fire
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Mar 17, 2018 16:34
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oh look Kenny Habul binned it, shock of shocks
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Mar 17, 2018 17:28
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CactusWeasle posted:Both Mazdas are still running and not on fire Just wait. Also goddamn the corvettes are slow as balls. If they're in traffic with GTDs out of corners it's honestly a dog fight.
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Mar 17, 2018 17:29
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#71 GTD has a great livery
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Mar 17, 2018 17:58
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