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Yeah, I don’t mind adaptations changing things, but when they go and change stuff in the dumbest possible ways and introduce plot holes and head scratching moments it gets really annoying really fast. Abuela sleeves into the new-Nazi? Awesome. Reileen being Kovacs sister who was also in the Cool Revolutionary Treefort? Less cool.
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Mar 18, 2018 18:49
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Yeah, I don’t mind adaptations changing things, but when they go and change stuff in the dumbest possible ways and introduce plot holes and head scratching moments it gets really annoying really fast. Wait, she isn't his sister in the books? WTF
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Mar 18, 2018 19:20
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Elias_Maluco posted:Wait, she isn't his sister in the books? WTF In the books she was a crime boss he did a job for at some point. E: book, not books. She isn’t even a blip in Broken Angels or Woken Furies.
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Mar 18, 2018 19:32
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Ugly In The Morning posted:In the books she was a crime boss he did a job for at some point. Makes more sense, I guess. Now I have to read the drat book or at least some summary of it, I'm too curious about what else they changed
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Mar 18, 2018 19:36
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Elias_Maluco posted:Makes more sense, I guess. Now I have to read the drat book or at least some summary of it, I'm too curious about what else they changed Oh man, Quellcrist Falconer was born, fought her war, and died a couple hundred years before Kovacs was born and had nothing to do with stacks. The Envoys were the Protectorate super troops, not forest hippie terrorists. Kovacs was an armed robber after having quit the Envoys which is why he was in Storage, not because he was a hunted terrorist. There is no super cyborg arm for Ortega and no “are you a man of faith” weirdo. Bancroft’s kids are only mentioned in passing. That’s probably the main non-spoiler stuff that deviates hard from the book.
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Mar 18, 2018 20:03
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navyjack posted:Oh man, Quellcrist Falconer was born, fought her war, and died a couple hundred years before Kovacs was born and had nothing to do with stacks. The Envoys were the Protectorate super troops, not forest hippie terrorists. Kovacs was an armed robber after having quit the Envoys which is why he was in Storage, not because he was a hunted terrorist. There is no super cyborg arm for Ortega and no “are you a man of faith” weirdo. Bancroft’s kids are only mentioned in passing. That’s probably the main non-spoiler stuff that deviates hard from the book. That's about everything I found most silly on the show. I eyerolled involuntarly when Quell confessed being the one who invented the stacks I did liked the cyborg arm and the "are you believer" guy, though edit: and its kinda of baffling, really. Because Quell being the inventor of stacks is dumb and adds absolutely nothing to the story; and Rei being his sister is very retarded and actually makes the plot dumber and more convoluted, she being this crazy psycho who loves her brother so much that she got to put all that effort into making him hate her; and the Envoy background episode was by far the worst of the season and also added very little to the plot. It really would have been a lot better without all this noise Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Mar 18, 2018 |
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Mar 18, 2018 20:23
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i really liked the whole plotline with Poe / The Hotel the idea of these AIs that are sentient isn't explored super thoroughly but very interesting. why even send humans to the stars if ais can effectively mimic us? (when that nyt ufo story broke i thought a lot about this idea - that maybe ufos visit us, but they're not manned)
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Mar 18, 2018 20:53
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Quell being the inventor of stacks using Martian tech is the dumbest poo poo in the whole show. It ruins so much about the setting
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Mar 18, 2018 20:57
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Caganer posted:i really liked the whole plotline with Poe / The Hotel Poe's also a change from the books, probably one of the better ones, because the original A.I. was modelled after Jimmy Hendrix and doesn't actually do a whole lot.
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Mar 18, 2018 22:37
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Young Freud posted:Poe's also a change from the books, probably one of the better ones, because the original A.I. was modelled after Jimmy Hendrix and doesn't actually do a whole lot. Poe was probably my favorite character on the show.
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Mar 18, 2018 22:44
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Poe was There we go.
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Mar 18, 2018 23:23
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Poe was probably my favorite character on the show. He just wanted to be friends 
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Mar 19, 2018 00:05
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All the other AI were aholes so I feel his pain.
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Mar 19, 2018 00:44
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Without knowing anything about the books, none of the changes really bothered me. Though stuff like Rei doing everything in her power to make Takashi hate her in some weird attempt to bring him to her side was just  Show wise, Quell being the one who invented stacks and her wanted to stop it because she had guilt from realizing that she had created a permanent caste system where the wealthiest could live for ever like gods on Olympus while everyone grubbed in the muck made sense from what we saw. A season 2 I'd want to see more Noir detective cyberpunk stuff, but I personally would love for there to be exploration of the Aliens and their legacy, but as I said, personal desire. I just love aliens and stories about their legacies and humans kind of fumbling around with it. Poe was awesome and I hope they bring him back.
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Mar 19, 2018 03:08
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twistedmentat posted:Show wise, Quell being the one who invented stacks and her wanted to stop it because she had guilt from realizing that she had created a permanent caste system where the wealthiest could live for ever like gods on Olympus while everyone grubbed in the muck made sense from what we saw. Yeaaah, except it can be laughed at by a simple piece of math in the last episode; Kovacs has 100,000 UN Credits and buys Eva her body back without hesitation, so that kinda implies he still has enough to get on with wherever he's off to. So that probably puts the cost of a basic sleeve under 50,000 somewhere, at a ballpark guess. Which is about the cost of a brand new car and hardly "caste system", especially given everyone has aircars it seems. Even if it's higher, that's still in a reasonable long-term-mortgage range for a shitload of middle/upper-class people. Also the book version of both character and topic are faaaar more interesting, without the cliche need for "New Technology...BAD??!!"
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Mar 19, 2018 03:23
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twistedmentat posted:Without knowing anything about the books, none of the changes really bothered me. Though stuff like Rei doing everything in her power to make Takashi hate her in some weird attempt to bring him to her side was just i was surprised she didn't announce they were not related and she wants to gently caress him honestly, that's how obsessed she seemed
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Mar 19, 2018 03:26
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Caganer posted:i was surprised she didn't announce they were not related and she wants to gently caress him honestly, that's how obsessed she seemed Did you manage to blank out her little visit to The Raven in Ortega's body? And to be perfectly fair, it's a legitimately well-written disturbing scene.
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Mar 19, 2018 03:29
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Did you manage to blank out her little visit to The Raven in Ortega's body? oh yeah... was she going to gently caress him if he didn't catch on? 
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Mar 19, 2018 03:31
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Well, yeah, because she just wants to gently caress him full stop. That's her basic motive behind everything she and Takeshi go through in the modern day plot.
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Mar 19, 2018 04:33
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Open Source Idiom posted:Well, yeah, because she just wants to gently caress him full stop. That's her basic motive behind everything she and Takeshi go through in the modern day plot.
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Mar 19, 2018 05:18
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Young Freud posted:Poe's also a change from the books, probably one of the better ones, because the original A.I. was modelled after Jimmy Hendrix and doesn't actually do a whole lot. Can't remember where I saw it, some behind-the-scenes thing, but it wasn't even about money (from what they said, grain of salt because Hollywoo and all that). The Hendrix estate just has rules about how much violence is allowed to be associated with his image. Mad respek nukkles, although the show hosed up the change again--Poe was not nearly trippy enough. They lost the "Cheshire Cat" aspect that the books had, could have definitely gotten that with Poe.
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Mar 19, 2018 05:51
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Open Source Idiom posted:Well, yeah, because she just wants to gently caress him full stop. That's her basic motive behind everything she and Takeshi go through in the modern day plot. Okay now you've made me start thinking about the genetics of reproduction with sleeves. If you have kids, do you pass on your dna or your sleeve's dna? Its not like there's "stack dna" that's just your brain state, right? The whole point is that you're hopping into different bodies, which have different DNA... So like if you had a child with your wife and then you switched sleeves and had another child with your wife, would they be half-siblings?  What about if somebody else buys your old sleeve and then has a child, is THAT child a half-sibling of your children? It seems like the whole concept of a family would fall apart pretty quickly when you have sleeves.
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Mar 19, 2018 06:22
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:Can't remember where I saw it, some behind-the-scenes thing, but it wasn't even about money (from what they said, grain of salt because Hollywoo and all that). The Hendrix estate just has rules about how much violence is allowed to be associated with his image. Mad respek nukkles, although the show hosed up the change again--Poe was not nearly trippy enough. They lost the "Cheshire Cat" aspect that the books had, could have definitely gotten that with Poe. The people who currently run the Hendrix estate are notorious copyright trolls. Mark Mothersbaugh has a story about when they tried to do a DVD version of The Complete Truth About De-Evolution in 2003, which had been released ten years prior for LaserDisc. They couldn't use the music video of their cover of Hendrix's "Are U Experienced" due to the Hendrix estate for the DVD release, despite being okay with it for the twenty years before. On the DVD, the band put this disclaimer... quote:DEVO regrets that 'Are U Experienced?' is not included in the program. The current executors of the Jimi Hendrix estate were determined to prove to us the old adage - 'To seek permission is to seek denial'.
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Mar 19, 2018 06:23
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Zaphod42 posted:Okay now you've made me start thinking about the genetics of reproduction with sleeves. You can't think too hard about stacks, even at as basic a level as how the stack interacts with the brain in the sleeve's skull, or the whole thing falls apart completely.
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Mar 19, 2018 16:45
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The only thing that falls apart is the currently common fact that the children that people raise were created from their own genetic material. In a re-sleeving society there would just be significantly more children being raised by people who they do not share genetics with.
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Mar 19, 2018 16:56
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Though I guess, for both children and adults, the concept of identity will still be at least partially linked to someone's body, so maybe parents and children will be less attached to each other simply because it takes time and effort to get used to the change. But you'd be hard pressed proving that adopted children today are less attached to their parents, so genetics obviously can't play too strong a role (if any at all).
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Mar 19, 2018 16:58
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twistedmentat posted:Show wise, Quell being the one who invented stacks and her wanted to stop it because she had guilt from realizing that she had created a permanent caste system where the wealthiest could live for ever like gods on Olympus while everyone grubbed in the muck made sense from what we saw. But she really needs to have a personal reason to want to bring down the evil immortal corporate overlords ruling the world? Is just.. silly. She is the leader and guru of the revolution, she is the super ninja master, she is our hero love ... and she is also secretly the scientist who created the technology that changed the world than disappeared for reasons. Its just makes everything less believable, and the character just dont need that extra motivation, which anyway affects nothing else Also, from the way its presented, it seems like the plan to end immortality because she feels guilty came to her as an afterthought, not like it was their goal from the start.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:03
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Dancer posted:Though I guess, for both children and adults, the concept of identity will still be at least partially linked to someone's body, so maybe parents and children will be less attached to each other simply because it takes time and effort to get used to the change. But you'd be hard pressed proving that adopted children today are less attached to their parents, so genetics obviously can't play too strong a role (if any at all). Part of it is that resleeving isn't an everyday thing for most people. Barring homicide, accidents, or traveling by needlecast, most people will live out a sleeve's lifespan. And even those events are probably the only resleeving they'll undergo for the next 20-50 years. Elias_Maluco posted:But she really needs to have a personal reason to want to bring down the evil immortal corporate overlords ruling the world? Is just.. silly. She is the leader and guru of the revolution, she is the super ninja master, she is our hero love ... and she is also secretly the scientist who created the technology that changed the world than disappeared for reasons. Its just makes everything less believable, and the character just dont need that extra motivation, which anyway affects nothing else The book's incarnation is infinitely more interesting, because she isn't driven by shame or guilt; She's driven by rage and anger at the suffering the people of her world endured under the Harlan family, and by God she set out to fix it with a massive civil war that raged across the entire planet. She was a pragmatic killing machine, whose philosophies still echo through modern-day as pop culture quotes to sound cool. Fun things like (paraphrased) "if they say it isn't personal make it personal. They''ll sure as poo poo negotiate if you make yourselves a clear threat." She's one of those people you might respect for what they did, and their teachings, but you'd never ever want to be in a room with them. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 17:05
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Hey look, there's more people who think that as long as you have consciousness in and out that no death took place even though obviously it did https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610743/mit-severs-ties-to-company-promoting-fatal-brain-uploading/
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Apr 3, 2018 23:48
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Zaphod42 posted:Hey look, there's more people who think that as long as you have consciousness in and out that no death took place even though obviously it did its time to let go. people on the internet disagreed with you about a TV show and you're just going to have to learn to live with that. quote:Most neuroscientists think the ability to recapture memories from brain tissue and re-create a consciousness inside a computer is at best decades away and probably not possible at all. The entire premise of the show is fantasy according to this article. Who cares? We are talking about the setting the show exists in, not real life.
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Apr 4, 2018 00:02
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bring back old gbs posted:its time to let go. people on the internet disagreed with you about a TV show and you're just going to have to learn to live with that. I'm having a laugh and also posting something relevant, what's the big problem 
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Apr 4, 2018 02:16
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Zaphod42 posted:I'm having a laugh and also posting something relevant, what's the big problem Tiggum and General Battuta will just argue in bad faith with their staggeringly-incorrect ideas about information transfer. You're not gonna achieve anything other than another page-long derail.
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Apr 4, 2018 02:39
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Tiggum and General Battuta will just argue in bad faith with their staggeringly-incorrect ideas about information transfer. You're not gonna achieve anything other than another page-long derail. IDK man I thought it was kinda interesting people are already doing this kinda stuff, or trying to. I didn't figure another fight would break out, there's nothing else to say. Although people have been freezing themselves for awhile now right? So that's kinda similar. 
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Apr 4, 2018 04:07
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Zaphod42 posted:I'm having a laugh and also posting something relevant, what's the big problem It's not relevant. The sci-fi setting in Altered Carbon is not realistic, but it's verisimilitudinous, and whether something happens in real life that seems to you like it might be within a few centuries of achieving a similar tech (hint: it's not) is completely disconnected from the TV show/book Altered Carbond.
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Apr 4, 2018 10:46
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You two are loving awful
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Apr 4, 2018 12:30
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I finally finished the season, it took me a long time because this show never really drew me in, but I wanted to get a resolution to James Purefoy's murder. I'm thinking about checking out the books, but my library doesn't have them.
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Apr 22, 2018 14:56
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Dancer posted:The only thing that falls apart is the currently common fact that the children that people raise were created from their own genetic material. In a re-sleeving society there would just be significantly more children being raised by people who they do not share genetics with. What about that thing you get when an adopted child meets their biological parents and wants to gently caress them? I can't remember the name but I bet that'd happen a lot in this society.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:27
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Taear posted:What about that thing you get when an adopted child meets their biological parents and wants to gently caress them? I can't remember the name but I bet that'd happen a lot in this society. I could imagine an uptick in that a bit. I can also see some societies seeing incest as less of a taboo when it's with someone who's resleeved out of their original biological body. And as we saw in the show the rich get away with whatever they want too. It's kind of hosed up that a major plot point of the show was what happens at a brothel for the rich, but even then they only scratched the surface of the sick stuff that bodyswapping would enable.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:32
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Taear posted:What about that thing you get when an adopted child meets their biological parents and wants to gently caress them? I can't remember the name but I bet that'd happen a lot in this society. Someone from my old high school had a kid with her biological dad after she met him. I think the word for that is “loving gross”.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:53
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Taear posted:What about that thing you get when an adopted child meets their biological parents and wants to gently caress them? I can't remember the name but I bet that'd happen a lot in this society. Oedipus syndrome?
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Apr 22, 2018 22:17
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