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If I was rewriting the ending of Episode 3 of BTS, it would be like so: - Rachel and Chloe are super sleuths who uncover James' hosed up plan (as well as dealing with Elliot) together and organize a meeting with Damon, who has Sera held hostage at the mill. - Rachel is still conscious and pissed as gently caress, so the wildfire is still a factor. In fact, commentary is made as they approach the mill (via radio or whatever) that the fire is changing direction (as it is converging on the mill). - Rachel and Chloe arrive and confront Damon as the fire approaches. Sera is gagged and strapped to a chair, and Damon gives her the overdose. Rachel recklessly rushes in and gets stabbed. She does not fall unconcious but is seriously wounded, and the mill catches fire. - The fire begins to consume the mill as Chloe tries to protect the wounded Rachel from both Damon and the flames as the former stalks them (like a demon, geddit) and the latter cuts off their escape. Here would be an opportunity to present an inversion of a Backtalk challenge in which Damon says horrible poo poo and you win by shutting the gently caress up for once and staying hidden rather than delivering a stupid one liner. Perhaps if you lose, Damon stabs Chloe in the arm in the place that will eventually be covered by her sleeve tattoo (the spot where the skull is would be most appropriate), just so there is some consequence for losing while still remaining canon compliant - Frank appears, kills Damon (by stabbing him in the back for maximum thematic imagery). Rachel begs Chloe to help Sera and falls unconcious. Frank carries Rachel to safety, seeding their eventual relationship, while Chloe goes to untie Sera. - She finds a seemingly lucid Sera, calmly sitting among the flames that don't seem to be spreading quite so quickly anymore. As Chloe struggles with Sera's binds, they talk. Sera is insistent that Chloe should lie about her and tell Rachel that Sera never loved her and she was only in it for the money. Chloe protests but Sera doesn't budge literally or figuratively. - Frank reappears (probably intending to recover Damon's body) and, finding Chloe still struggling with the Sera's knots, tells her "she's already gone" and that they need to leave already before the fire brings down the building. The camera pans back and shows that Sera is in fact dead from her overdose (foreshadowing Rachel's own death). It is left ambiguous whether Chloe talked to Sera's spirit or if she just dreamed it like she did with William throughout the game. Chloe leaves just as the fire begins to consume Damon and Sera's corpses. - At the hospital later, Rachel is bedridden and Chloe visits her (wearing a sling herself if she got stabbed). Rachel asks what happened to her mother. - The final choice becomes do you tell Rachel that her mother is dead (~just like William~) or do you lie and say that her mother abandoned her (~ just like Max~). The former is harsher but provides closure, the latter is softer but leaves things unresolved in Rachel's mind. Either one could reasonably explain Rachel's erratic behavior in the months leading up to her disappearance but the player gets to decide which flavor of trauma from Chloe's own life they get to inflict on Rachel. The William/Max analogy is already kinda present in the ending as is, with telling the truth being the equivalent of "killing" James in Rachel's eyes while lying allows Rachel to suffer the abandonment of a loved one. And if you gently caress up the final conversation with Sera and then tell the truth, you can technically inflict both. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Mar 18, 2018 |
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Mar 18, 2018 07:29
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If I were to rewrite the back half of Episode 3 while making the fewest structural changes, I'd probably just have Rachel get ganked by Damon at the mill instead of earlier in the junkyard. Nothing would change about the sequence of junkyard -> hospital -> James' office -> mill -> hospital except that Rachel would be present for the argument with Eliot, which I think would result in a stronger scene overall, and would have to not discover the truth about her father just yet. I also think this would make Chloe's highly illegal actions at that point more understandable, with her being hesitant but Rachel pressing them along to find Sera. So they get to the mill, Damon backstabs Rachel for 1,785 critical damage, Chloe drags her out of there with Sera in tow. Now that conversation with Sera is moved to the hospital and her total reversal of motivations makes much more sense in a "what have I done dragging Rachel back into my life" kind of way. Sera tells Chloe "leave Rachel out of this, don't tell her the truth" and peaces out forever before James arrives, leaving Chloe with the final decision exactly as it stood before. You would need to change almost nothing about the actual sequence of events besides obviously putting Rachel back in there and finding another spot for that William/Chloe dialogue in the truck, because it's a good scene.
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Mar 18, 2018 09:38
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exquisite tea posted:If I were to rewrite the back half of Episode 3 while making the fewest structural changes, I'd probably just have Rachel get ganked by Damon at the mill instead of earlier in the junkyard. Nothing would change about the sequence of junkyard -> hospital -> James' office -> mill -> hospital except that Rachel would be present for the argument with Eliot, which I think would result in a stronger scene overall, and would have to not discover the truth about her father just yet. I also think this would make Chloe's highly illegal actions at that point more understandable, with her being hesitant but Rachel pressing them along to find Sera. So they get to the mill, Damon backstabs Rachel for 1,785 critical damage, Chloe drags her out of there with Sera in tow. Now that conversation with Sera is moved to the hospital and her total reversal of motivations makes much more sense in a "what have I done dragging Rachel back into my life" kind of way. Sera tells Chloe "leave Rachel out of this, don't tell her the truth" and peaces out forever before James arrives, leaving Chloe with the final decision exactly as it stood before. You would need to change almost nothing about the actual sequence of events besides obviously putting Rachel back in there and finding another spot for that William/Chloe dialogue in the truck, because it's a good scene. Yeah, I quite like this.
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Mar 18, 2018 11:51
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It might have also been nice to get one last dream sequence to tie things together. Only this time, rather than seeing her father like usual Chloe instead runs into herself (sort of mirroring the nightmare from the first game). What follows would be one of the hardest Backtalks in the game where Nightmare Chloe criticizes you about Rachel and all your decisions throughout the story, she's also just as capable of throwing your words back at you as you've been in the other challenges. Maybe even have it replace the Eliot confrontation as the few points he did make might have been more impactful coming from the mouth of Chloe's own doubts and insecurity. They also could have been a bit more subtle about the ending stinger (if they had to include it at all). Maybe instead of the Dark Room shot they could have ended it on a close up of Rachel's missing poster or shown 19 year old Chloe standing outside Blackwell prior to entering the bathroom. In It For The Tank posted:The William/Max analogy is already kinda present in the ending as is, with telling the truth being the equivalent of "killing" James in Rachel's eyes while lying allows Rachel to suffer the abandonment of a loved one. And if you gently caress up the final conversation with Sera and then tell the truth, you can technically inflict both. As problematic as it is (why would she suddenly give up after so many years of fighting to see her daughter again and even more so, why would she defend the man that basically just ruined her life), I do kind of like that conversation in a way. As someone else once said, it's basically the inverse of a normal Backtalk challenge as for once Chloe is dead serious about everything and has nothing to personally gain from this. The masks are thrown away and you're left with a conversation between two broken women, Chloe desperately trying to convince Sera not to give up on herself or Rachel. There's actually some cut dialogue in that scene where Sera explains her side of the story James told them at the beginning, it's honestly pretty good and I kind of wish they'd kept it in. Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Mar 18, 2018 |
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Mar 18, 2018 13:16
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I'm only partway through Episode 2 but thank god for a game that properly lights the character's faces. I recently played Mass Effect: Andromeda and like most games the lighting was frequently terrible, but this one has it nailed.
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Mar 19, 2018 08:15
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The characters are a lot more expressive this time around in general (even if they look like they're made of rubber at times) compared to the first one where the models could barely emote. LiS 2 is apparently going back to the Unreal engine rather than switching to Unity like BtS did but hopefully it's advanced enough by now that this won't be an issue anymore Upon thinking about it, if someone went through the series in chronological order for their first playthrough (that is, Farewell-BtS proper-LiS), their feelings on the characters might actually be the reverse of some of the others who played the original game for the first time (Chloe would probably come off as a lot more sympathetic while Max might kind of get on your nerves at first). Max is a decent person but you can't deny that she's kind of a bad friend (at first anyway). Chloe actually strikes me as someone I'd probably be more willing to hang out with if I knew them in real life as she's entertaining, loyal to a fault and is pretty much always going to have your back no matter what. In fact, considering how quickly she forgave Max after breaking her promise and dropping out of contact for years and how she was still determined to find Rachel after discovering the truth about her and Frank it actually seems pretty drat hard to break Chloe's trust. I think the only person she was sort of friends with that ever really crossed that line was Eliot. If you play the original again with the full context in mind some of the things people say about Chloe early on are actually really lovely, like her mom telling Max that Chloe "chose" to stay angry after her dad died. Based on the timetable: her dad dies, Max leaves the day of the funeral, then in the same year Joyce brings home David who kind of treats her like crap. Chloe barely had enough time to deal with one issue before another was dumped in her lap, of course she'd be a little pissed. Finally, in Farewell try moving the dresser in the attic twice. Behind it is some pirate gear that Max can put on. Larryb fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 12:01
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Just picked up The Council today. Actually a really cool take on the Choices and Consequences episodic game formula. It's like an RPG hybrid. Would definitely recommend it.
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Mar 19, 2018 12:56
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Just picked up The Council today. Actually a really cool take on the Choices and Consequences episodic game formula. It's like an RPG hybrid. Would definitely recommend it. I was curious about this game; I'm normally all in for the genre but the way they're billing it feels like they're setting me up for disappointment. They seem to have been trying to emphasize that your choices ~~~TRULY MATTER~~~ but I have my doubts that the story can significantly branch out any more than LiS or a Telltale game can. Does it come across to you like it's still broadly on rails?
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Mar 19, 2018 13:09
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Argue posted:I was curious about this game; I'm normally all in for the genre but the way they're billing it feels like they're setting me up for disappointment. They seem to have been trying to emphasize that your choices ~~~TRULY MATTER~~~ but I have my doubts that the story can significantly branch out any more than LiS or a Telltale game can. Does it come across to you like it's still broadly on rails? Only one episode out so far, but the endings you can get are fairly divergent and there are several entire scenes you miss depending on your choices. It's definitely already far more choice than a Telltale game would ever allow, but whether it can stick the landing, you'd have to wait and see. The skill and effort system also really feels like an addition to the genre that will probably get picked up by other games. And it's honestly the first game I've ever really felt like I couldn't trust a single person I talked to. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 13:17
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To be fair, even though it was a prequel and railroaded you harder than the first game did at times I felt like your choices actually seemed to matter a bit more in BtS compared to the original (probably because there was no rewind mechanic to take things back if you made a mistake). Aside from the final choice, a good chunk of the scenes during the ending will actually change depending on your choices throughout the game. It was a nice touch and I hope Season 2 goes even further with it. Speaking of which, I kind of hope they don't bring back the Rewind function in LiS 2. That was kind of tied into Max's character and the new protagonist should instead have a power more suited to them. Larryb fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Mar 19, 2018 |
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Mar 19, 2018 13:24
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Yeah I'd say the 'illusion of choice' stuff really is far more a Telltale specific problem than genre wide. And it's because they constantly undercut their own writing and the illusion by offering huge sweeping choices that have no effect, rather than smaller choices that they can actually cash the cheques of.
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Mar 19, 2018 13:31
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For Telltale it's super aggravating because so many of their flashpoints are framed like "that thing you didn't want to happen and specifically chose against happening happens 5 minutes later anyway" when other games are way better at presenting the illusion of choice.
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Mar 19, 2018 14:18
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what happened to the game of thrones telltale game
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Mar 19, 2018 14:54
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Tired Moritz posted:what happened to the game of thrones telltale game It was bad. I think season 2 got canned, I haven’t heard anything about it in ages.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:17
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Much like the actual show it started okay and then got much much worse.
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Mar 19, 2018 17:25
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Back to the Future and The Wolf Among Us are the only Telltale games I've bothered to finish because in the other games the actual quicktime-event gameplay stinks. I can't remember if BttF had it at all but it was fairly unobtrusive in The Wolf Among Us. All the other games can go suck it. As for LiS S2, I'm glad they're going back to Unreal for it, I appreciate the style of the games but BtS looked weirdly cartoony at times and S1 hit a fairly nice balance of realistic and stylized. Glitchy animations and weird lip sync aside anyway. Speaking of glitches, have they fixed the D&D bit in Episode 3 where Drew suddenly starts floating around the room? That took me out of the moment a bit.
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Mar 20, 2018 10:35
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I think they fixed that along with the recent patch that also fixed Sera's dialogue counter.
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Mar 20, 2018 10:36
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Cool. These games tend to have some of the best, if the most inappropriately timed glitches. I think I had something weird happen in all three episodes of BTS but Drew North, Ghost Brother was the one that really stuck with me.
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Mar 20, 2018 10:40
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exquisite tea posted:I think they fixed that along with the recent patch that also fixed Sera's dialogue counter. For the letters? Sweet!
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Mar 20, 2018 10:41
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Stare-Out posted:Cool. These games tend to have some of the best, if the most inappropriately timed glitches. I think I had something weird happen in all three episodes of BTS but Drew North, Ghost Brother was the one that really stuck with me. They fixed the glitch where it shows 0% of people having played D&D with Mikey as well. Of course, the original had its share of glitches too (the game locking up if you're standing at a certain angle when you mess up with Frank in Episode 3, everything remaining black & white sometimes when you rewind from a "game over" screen, Max suddenly becoming telepathic while talking to Warren in Episode 5, etc.). Off the subject but as much as I love these characters I hope Season 2 stays as far away from the original as possible aside from maybe an Easter egg or two (like a photo taken by a M. Caulfield and of course more Hawt Dawg Man). If we do ever revisit this cast again I hope it focuses on someone outside Chloe and Max for once (unless they want to explore Max's Seattle years that is). Frank or Victoria would probably be the most likely candidates though they might be able to do something with Dana as well (she's pretty on the ball and kind of a geek herself, especially when it comes to Halloween). Kate, Nathan, and/or Rachel could be interesting but would probably be too depressing to work as a full game knowing where they eventually end up. More of Steph might also be cool as she was probably my favorite new character from BtS (hell, as others have mentioned if you spruce it up a bit you could probably build an entire game around the D&D segments from this one). Larryb fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Mar 20, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 11:35
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I hope we don't see any of the original characters again. An easter-egg type mention is fine but any more with the same characters gets super old pretty quickly when these games are perfect for an anthology type approach where every season focuses on a new cast of characters. These games live and die by the writing so they have to try and keep things fresh and starting from scratch with a new cast of characters is the best way to do it. Chloe and Max are great characters but we're done with them now.
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Mar 20, 2018 11:43
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Stare-Out posted:I hope we don't see any of the original characters again. An easter-egg type mention is fine but any more with the same characters gets super old pretty quickly when these games are perfect for an anthology type approach where every season focuses on a new cast of characters. These games live and die by the writing so they have to try and keep things fresh and starting from scratch with a new cast of characters is the best way to do it. Chloe and Max are great characters but we're done with them now. True, though since we're completely switching gears this time the future of this series going forward is pretty much going to depend entirely on the success of LiS 2. DontNod's got some pretty big shoes to fill but since they've got a lot of the same staff working on it I'm confident they'll be able to pull off something decent. I do hope they can at least make the character models a bit more expressive this time around though. But yeah, while the prequel wound up being a nice surprise I agree that this probably works better as an anthology series with little to no connection to each other, it can have similar themes of course but, as you said, switching up the cast and location every game is a good way to keep things fresh (though I wouldn't mind seeing Deck Nine take another crack at the franchise to be honest). Either way, we're apparently going to know more in a few months (which I'm guessing means an E3 reveal), I wouldn't expect the first episode to drop until late this year at the earliest though. I am looking forward to it though as starting fresh means the devs pretty much have free reign to do whatever they want. Maybe they'll switch things up and we'll get a male protagonist this time or at least someone who isn't a teenager. Larryb fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 20, 2018 11:52
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Larryb posted:(why would she suddenly give up after so many years of fighting to see her daughter again and even more so, why would she defend the man that basically just ruined her life) I think Sera's change of heart is a little sudden but makes sense. She just spent a year struggling with addiction so that she could finally have a place in Rachel's life, and had that all undone by the man she used to love hiring a thug to forcibly inject her. I can't imagine pretending to be nice to someone like that, even if it's for the sake of her child. And what's to stop James from coming up with some other crazy scheme? Sera isn't welcome in Rachel's family, and she can't bear the idea of ruining Rachel's relationship with James for her own sake. Season 1's final episode took about a thousand years to get where it was going and BtS's feels rushed. WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Only one episode out so far, but the endings you can get are fairly divergent and there are several entire scenes you miss depending on your choices. It's definitely already far more choice than a Telltale game would ever allow, but whether it can stick the landing, you'd have to wait and see. I think I'm very particular about endings, because I have had a lot of unsatisfying experiences with story-based games. I'll most likely pre-order LiS Season 2 because I'm just that far gone, but otherwise I usually just end up watching games on Youtube. Though I will admit Wolf Among Us getting a second season interests me. Larryb posted:Maybe they'll switch things up and we'll get a male protagonist this time or at least someone who isn't a teenager. I'd like to see a protagonist who isn't American. I will watch a Let's Play of French-rear end David Cage's next Cagesterpiece and love it, but man I crave more stuff that isn't soaked in American pop culture. Give us the French hipsters, DONTNOD.
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Mar 21, 2018 05:03
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LoseHound posted:I think Sera's change of heart is a little sudden but makes sense. She just spent a year struggling with addiction so that she could finally have a place in Rachel's life, and had that all undone by the man she used to love hiring a thug to forcibly inject her. I can't imagine pretending to be nice to someone like that, even if it's for the sake of her child. And what's to stop James from coming up with some other crazy scheme? Sera isn't welcome in Rachel's family, and she can't bear the idea of ruining Rachel's relationship with James for her own sake. That makes sense as considering Damon did actually wind up injecting her she would no longer have a legal leg to stand on with James. Which makes me wonder what happened afterwards in the timeline where Chloe convinces her to reunite with Rachel. Did she stay and support her daughter in an unofficial manner or did she just come to say goodbye before leaving town for good? Like his counterpart Leland Palmer, James Amber seems to place a lot of value on perfection. When something no longer lines up with the image he created in his head he wants it gone as soon as possible and will go to any lengths to do so (though to be fair if any part of his story was true then Sera really did put Rachel in danger for the sake of her habit, still no excuse to go as far as he did though). Which could explain why there wasn't much of an investigation when she later disappeared and why her parents remained in denial about the whole thing. After BtS Rachel started becoming more and more rebellious, and, since she was no longer the perfect daughter he envisioned, her disappearance (and later discovery of her death in the Sacrifice Chloe timeline) was a good way to get rid of a potential problem while at the same time earning him some sympathy points with the public. While he never physically abused Rachel (though her "And my dad will definitely punish me with...." comment in Episode 1 is still a little concerning to me) there was plenty of emotional abuse going on to the point where lying had become such a survival mechanism for Rachel that she was starting to lose sight of where the mask ended and she began. Hell, even when he told her the truth he did so in a way that both demonized Sera and made himself look good. This man really has no business being a father and while it was already too late to stop him from hurting Rachel, Chloe telling her the truth at the end is at least a good way of putting some distance between them and preventing it from happening again. Off the subject, but out of curiosity are any of the other characters in LiS a direct reference to some famous literary or TV/movie figure? I know Max and Jefferson both share aspects of Holden Caulfield (Max's last name and the fact that they both kind of have an obsession with preserving innocence, just in different ways), Rachel is obviously Laura Palmer and Chloe is based on Lisbeth Salander (some aspects of her personality, her middle name is Elizabeth, and the fact that she is literally a girl with a dragon tattoo) but I'm not sure about the rest of the primary cast. Larryb fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 13:08
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So now that Before the Storm is complete, how would you all rate the episodes overall? My take (from most to least favorite): 1. Brave New World: This is pretty much where the pacing and writing were at their best, The Tempest (and the scene with Chloe and Rachel afterwards) was probably the highlight of the episode and I liked the ending even if (kind of like Jefferson in the first game) I'd already figured out the twist beforehand 2. Farewell: Short but hit all the right notes for me and I loved the ending song. Black Flies is basically Chloe's theme song if you think about it and, in my opinion, is to this game what Spanish Sahara was to the original. It's also nice that we finally got to explore a new area of Chloe's house (now only the door next to the stairs still remains a mystery to us). 3. Awake: While a solid start with plenty of good moments (such as the D&D game, the conversation on the train and of course the ending), it also wasted too much time spinning its wheels in my opinion (the main plot doesn't really kick in until towards the very end, which is a problem when your main game is only 3 episodes long). That said, Chloe's meltdown in the junkyard is still one of the strongest scenes in the game (if not the series as a whole) as far as I'm concerned. 4. Hell is Empty: While it had it's problems and probably could have been done without taking Rachel out of action for most of the game (though to be fair, the original kind of did the same thing with Chloe for its finale) I still liked it a bit more than the original's ending and it felt like your choices actually mattered a bit more overall (even down to them affecting the final ending). And just because I feel like it, here are the same rankings for Life is Strange: 1. Chaos Theory: This is where the game really started to click for me, everything feels decently paced and there really isn't much in the way of annoying puzzles to deal with (even the writing seemed a bit tighter in my opinion). It also probably still has the most WTF ending of the whole series so far. 2. Dark Room: While putting the clues together at the end was kind of annoying it was still an enjoyable experience and I love how Max is just done with everyone's poo poo by the time you hit the Vortex Club party. 3. Out of Time: Has some slightly irritating puzzles (hunting for bottles and to a lesser extent Chloe's test) but the ending pretty much redeems it. 4. Chrysalis: Unlike the prequel, the first game pretty much throws you head first into the story within the first 10 minutes. But at the same time there really isn't a lot to actually do compared to the later episodes and it's probably the second shortest entry in the series after Farewell. 5. Polarized: While I like this one a lot more now than I did originally, it still feels really disjointed to me and the Nightmare probably could have been trimmed down significantly. Like with Rachel in the BtS finale, Chloe is absent from the plot for a large chunk of the episode but for some reason it doesn't feel quite as jarring to me here, I think the reason might be that Chloe is only absent from about half the episode (aside from the phone call in the art gallery) while in BtS Episode 3 Rachel just disappears from the story entirely following the hospital scene, only resurfacing at the end of the game. While the endings themselves have their pros and cons, Spanish Sahara and Obstacles are still some of the best songs in the game in my opinion. Larryb fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Mar 24, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 23:08
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Of the three prequel episodes (I'm intentionally leaving out Farewell here because it being about Max and Chloe make it feel disconnected from the other three) Brave New World is easily my favorite for no other reason than the play and the whole scene where they are walking home. That bit with the play is just a really really good scene between Rachel and Chloe. And then the following bit just has all the cute mushy poo poo that BtS did really well. Awake comes in second because the train scene between the two of them is excellent. There's a ton of other great stuff too like the D&D game (Steph is a great character) and Chloe's meltdown in the dump is very good, but the one on one "getting to know each other" bit on the train was just nailed perfectly. The third episode is the worst for splitting Rachel and Chloe up the whole time because, as I said, the two of them have such a good dynamic it sucks to just take that away for most of the episode. Plus it's otherwise just a sloppy episode. I said it before, I liked these episodes more than the original game because the dynamic between Rachel and Chloe is just really good and the dynamic between Max and Chloe isn't. It's fine, but Max is such a blank slate for the player it doesn't end up being quite as compelling to me as the two fully realized characters interacting. Still love the first game but the smaller little one on one bits in BtS were just better to me. I still think the end credits stinger for the third episode was completely unnecessary and ends up being way too big of a downer for no real reason.
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Mar 22, 2018 15:18
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Having somewhat dissapointing finales seems like it's becoming a trend for this series, hope it doesn't continue into Season 2. I agree that the ending stinger was unnecessary but in retrospect it doesn't really spoil anything that the first two episodes of Life is Strange didn't already and it's not like this series is really known for having happy endings to begin with. If they had to do some kind of flash-forward they could have been more subtle about it though, like ending on a shot of Rachel's missing person poster or kept it exactly the same only instead of panning out to the Dark Room at the end instead pan out to an older Chloe standing outside Blackwell before going into the bathroom to meet Nathan. If you're replaying Before the Storm I actually think it works best to play Farewell first. It's basically the day that Chloe's life started to fall apart, thereby setting up the basic premise and providing some extra context when you dive into BtS proper. Larryb fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 15:54
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Macaluso posted:I said it before, I liked these episodes more than the original game because the dynamic between Rachel and Chloe is just really good and the dynamic between Max and Chloe isn't. It's fine, but Max is such a blank slate for the player it doesn't end up being quite as compelling to me as the two fully realized characters interacting. Still love the first game but the smaller little one on one bits in BtS were just better to me. Totally agree. I can see why blank slate fish-out-of-water characters are used, but really defining your protagonist's personality and letting you work within it really is more powerful. And even Max isn't really a blank slate. She has a well defined history, connections with people from her past and flaws, she's just a bit of a shrinking violet and her powers allow us to completely erase most of her flaws so it's not as immediately visible.
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Mar 22, 2018 15:55
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I'd like it if the main character of LiS 2 was kind of a happy medium between Max and Chloe. That is, enough of a blank slate for the player to project onto them but also enough of their own character so as not to be upstaged by a majority of the supporting cast.
Larryb fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Mar 27, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 17:28
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Macaluso posted:
I half saw it coming, or at least some sort of reference/cameo by that particular character... And it still hit me right in the feels.
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Mar 22, 2018 17:39
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So ultimately what was the point of the Raven in this game? I know it either literally was her dad or some kind of spirit working through him but its goal is never really explained, appears less and less as the game goes on and, unlike the doe in the first game, Chloe never acknowledges it once so why even include it at all? You could have just had her dad show up alone in the dreams and it wouldn't have changed much of anything, especially since whenever she talks about her dreams she just mentions William and nothing else. The only particularly useful thing I remember the raven doing is guiding Chloe to Rachel after the incident at the junkyard in the first episode. Speaking of which, the way the concept of spirit animals works in this series is weird as the doe is implied to be a literal ghost (it does not appear in the photo Max takes of it) while the butterfly and raven seem to be physical beings (the butterfly does appear in the photo Max took and the raven is seen several times outside of Chloe's dreams, including places she was not currently present at). At the same time however, they're all heavily implied to be the reincarnations of various people (Rachel, Chloe, and William respectively) so I'm not sure what the difference is supposed to be. Off the subject, but in Farewell you have to option of putting a flower on the grave of Chloe's cat. Doing so will result in a third picture from Chloe at the end where she draws Max and Bongo together. There are also actually 5 optional photos you can take rather than 4 as stated earlier (at least, don't know if you can trigger any more): The mirror in Chloe's room The amulet in the attic Chloe outside The baseball cap after looking at the photo album Chloe on the couch Edit: Just for the hell of it, here's Japanese Chloe and Rachel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5qw82bEn1I Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Mar 27, 2018 |
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Mar 25, 2018 17:53
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I like the dynamic Chloe has with both Max and Rachel, I just think BtS does a better job of exploring it and telling a satisfying story.Larryb posted:So ultimately what was the point of the Raven in this game? I know it either literally was her dad or some kind of spirit working through him but its goal is never really explained, appears less and less as the game goes on and, unlike the doe in the first game, Chloe never acknowledges it once so why even include it at all? The raven feels pretty superfluous, but I still like its inclusion. It's a nice aesthetic call back to Life is Strange's spirit animals and creates more mystery around Chloe's dreams by implying there's something more to them through the setting's own conventions. Plus, the idea of the raven as a trickster spirit ties in thematically with the game's themes of acting/deception. The spirit animals in the first game weren't entirely necessary either so meh. Larryb posted:Edit: Just for the hell of it, here's Japanese Chloe and Rachel: let me hear rachel say "nya" dammit
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Mar 27, 2018 21:34
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LoseHound posted:I like the dynamic Chloe has with both Max and Rachel, I just think BtS does a better job of exploring it and telling a satisfying story. True, but the doe in the first game just seemed like it had a bit more presence overall (leading Max through the storm, appearing in the junkyard near where Rachel was buried, popping up again when they find her body, leading Max again during the nightmare and finally we see a family of real deer pop up in the Sacrifice the Bay ending). The raven in comparison just seems to be an observer and not much else, plus the fact that it appears in all but one of her dreams and Chloe never comments it once is still kind of weird to me (to the point where I almost question whether or not she could even see it). The only other things it really seems to do is lead Chloe to Rachel at the end of the first episode and put her to sleep during the second (the raven flies over the junkyard and Chloe immediately starts getting drowsy). It's messages are also sometimes contradictory such as pushing Chloe towards Rachel in the first dream, warning her away in the second and I'm still not entirely sure what the lesson of the final dream was supposed to be. But they all seem to have the unifying message of "Things suck now but they'll get better". Larryb fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Mar 27, 2018 |
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Mar 27, 2018 21:59
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The raven literally guides Chloe to where she needs to go to find Rachel at the end of episode one. In each appearance it provides Chloe a glimpse into the future in riddles that are half understood by her but more obvious to us, the players of Life is Strange season one. This is consistent with the traditional folkloric presentation of the raven as a trickster god often associated with prophecy.
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Mar 27, 2018 22:08
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exquisite tea posted:The raven literally guides Chloe to where she needs to go to find Rachel at the end of episode one. In each appearance it provides Chloe a glimpse into the future in riddles that are half understood by her but more obvious to us, the players of Life is Strange season one. This is consistent with the traditional folkloric presentation of the raven as a trickster god often associated with prophecy. I'm still not sure what the last one means though (the one with her and her dad on stage doing improv). The best I can come up with is that everyone present is hiding themselves in some fashion but eventually there will come a time when things will improve and Chloe at least won't have to pretend anymore ("I don't want to be an actor, I just want to be myself"). It is kind of neat that the more Chloe grows as a person, the further into the background the raven gets. To the point where by the end William just shows up in the real world for one last pep talk (though the raven does still show up one last time at the lighthouse during the ending before disappearing into the sunset). Larryb fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 27, 2018 22:16
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I think that part is intentionally meant to be vague so it's up to the player
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Mar 27, 2018 22:22
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In retrospect I guess the raven's purpose was, in a roundabout way, to teach Chloe that things will get better later on but she's the one who ultimately has to make it happen. Considering what we know about William's character, a raven is a good choice to represent him. By the same logic, Chloe is a free spirit but also extremely fragile so a butterfly works for her as well. Not really sure what Rachel has to do with deer though. I've said it before but I think Chloe might have been a little special too even if she didn't have a "power" per se. While Rachel (presumably) had some kind of unconscious control over nature and Max had power over time, Chloe's domain is over emotion and fate. She seems to have some limited form of prophecy through her dreams (though a lot of that was probably the raven's influence), she can trigger a tremendous change in those she's close to (both Rachel and Max first used their respective "powers" while in Chloe's presence during a traumatic moment) and said people can even transcend death (William and Rachel are reincarnated as spirit animals, if you take a gameplay mechanic at face value Max's power literally will not let her die and Chloe herself lives on through the blue butterfly). People are either drawn to or repelled by her depending on how deeply they're willing to look and the universe itself seems to fear/hate her on some level (which would explain why it seems so hellbent on killing/making her miserable). I'm probably overthinking this but it's something at any rate. Larryb fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 00:43
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Or the Raven has its own scheme and is simply using these girls to fulfil the prophecy seen in LiS that ends with the decolonisation of the US. That'd be pretty trickstery.
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Mar 28, 2018 04:40
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At the very least, nature itself seems to want Arcadia Bay gone (we see plenty of evidence for that in the first game). Hell, even the Fire of 2010 could have been the first attempt but it was stopped before it could spread that far. When that failed, a few years later the job was passed down to Max and the stakes were raised even higher. Chloe's purpose was essentially bait, a little incentive to keep Rachel and Max on the path laid out for them. Chloe herself is kept in check by a seemingly endless stream of bad luck (and when things do wind up going her way it usually ends up being a Monkey's Paw type deal), and for good reason as when given the chance to apply herself she can do some serious damage. Though she wasn't always the one pulling the trigger her actions have lead to: the death of the local drug lord, James Amber's entire 15 year plan blowing up in his face, and even her death wound up exposing Jefferson, finding Rachel and dealing a massive blow to the Prescott family. All of which happen in about 2 weeks (with 3 years between them of course), that's kind of impressive actually. I've said it before, Chloe Price is a goddamn hero and this rotten town doesn't deserve her. At the end, either the puppet finally manages to cut her strings and throw a wrench into the works or Max fulfills her duty and destroys the town. Of course, in the former case who's to say the powers that be wouldn't just choose some other poor sap years down the line and start the cycle all over again? In a sense it will, as though it might be a different town and maybe even a different time and/or country somebody new is still going to suffer come Season 2. Larryb fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 05:05
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The iOS version got a big update today, fixes, tweaks and whatnot, and the rest of the season finally. BUT! It also got a photo mode. Third person, first person, filters (obviously), bunch of outfits and poses for Max (no expressions sadly so she always looks a bit out of it) but hey, it's a pretty neat addition that I wish they'd put in the other versions of the game too. Some quick examples: The UI:  The "Warhol" filter:    I'd taken more but this game kills my battery dead and heats up my phone like a motherfucker.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:30
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