Taiwan Number 1

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Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Jeoh posted:

And they're green instead of blue.

My wife's mom had a joint venture on a store/mahjong hall a few years back, and there are a few different types of automatic tables. The old ones would hold 4-5 sets of tiles, and after you went through those, you'd have to switch tables as the sets were hand shuffled and stacked underneath by one of the mahjong hall employees. You'd pull a handle and a new set would work its way to the top.

The next step up is the one in the video wiggles linked where you have one set of tiles that the machines spends a few minutes shuffling between each game. This is usually the kind that people will buy for certain mahjong halls that serve food, as it gives people a minute or two to go grab a drink, some food, or another pack of smokes.

The one Haier posed is the kind that has two sets of tiles in it, and they usually take 5 minutes or more to shuffle as it does it very slowly so as to be as quiet as possible and not disturb the game. These are more popular amongst mahjong halls that don't serve food and want the least amount of time between games.

I've seen a few mahjong halls that range from a room or two at the back of a restaurant, to ones that look like PC Bangs in Korea, to ones that look like North American purpose-made bingo halls that can accommodate hundreds of tables in one room.

# ? Mar 17, 2018 19:51

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 00:54

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

https://warontherocks.com/2018/03/what-to-expect-when-youre-expecting-the-pla-a-guide-to-meeting-with-the-chinese-army/

quote:

Congratulations, senior Defense Department official or general! After years of waiting, your staff has created a plan, OSD-Policy and Joint Staff have concurred, and the Chinese People�s Liberation Army (PLA) has finally agreed to your visit to China. Or, perhaps somewhat less felicitously, you will be hosting a Chinese visit to the United States. These visits are an important part of U.S.-China military diplomacy, both in terms of the specific service issues (for instance, ship visits and signal exercises for the Navy) as well as a broader demonstration of the stabilizing effect of a good military-to-military relationship and open communications.

What can you expect during this exciting time? How can you maximize the effectiveness of your visit? Will you change the entire dynamic of the U.S.-China relationship? Here are some principles for interacting with the PLA that your resident China specialist or action officer wishes they could tell you over drinks.

The PLA Is Not Like You and Me

After years in Afghanistan and Iraq � which are allies, or at least partners � it may be difficult for military or political leaders to shift gears to working with countries that are neither partners nor enemies. This is especially true for countries that have a sophisticated understanding of Western norms and rhetoric, and will use the language of cooperation and engagement in a misleading way to achieve their objectives.

Watch Out for the Cooperation Rhetoric

The PLA will often talk about �win-win cooperation� in a �new type of military-to-military relationship.� You will likely hear this at the start of every official meeting with the Chinese military. This type of rhetoric is part of a broader set of Xi Jinping-approved talking points designed for an international audience, and has seen some evolution over the years: from the once-popular catchphrase of �a new model of great power relations� to the more current �non-conflict, non-confrontation, and mutual respect.� However, the general thrust has remained the same. It is abundantly clear from Chinese writings that this �new model� of relations is only �new� in that its primary interest is to return to a 19th-century view of �spheres of influence� rather than a U.S.-led international order. Similarly, �non-conflict, non-confrontation, and mutual respect� assumes U.S. acceptance of Chinese dominance over the Western Pacific and the creation of a new Chinese economic-security architecture in East Asia.

For military-to-military discussions, the Chinese usually deploy these talking points in the context of requests to �deepen mutual trust� in the relationship, via operational exchanges or learning delegations to the United States. American leaders must consider seemingly benign Chinese requests in the context of U.S. military interests (to say nothing of China�s obvious attempts to ascertain U.S. tactics, techniques, and procedures). Agreeing to cooperation for the sake of cooperation or in the hopes of obtaining future leverage (�the Chinese will owe us one�), inevitably leads to disappointment when the next round of military-to-military discussions come up and the Chinese pocket previous U.S. concessions without comment. The standard U.S./Western model of military-to-military cooperation, which usually involves building a relationship and trust from the ground up, does not work with the PLA. Every aspect of PLA military diplomacy is vetted closely, if not outright dictated, by the Office for International Military Cooperation of the Central Military Commission (informally known as the �barbarian handlers�).

You Will Not Become Old Friends

Beyond the official talking points, one of the tactics the PLA likes to use is to call you �friend.� This naming is usually done at the official dinner, with the initial round of drinks serving as an icebreaker. The title of �friend� has several levels: After you have shared drinks with them once, you are a �new friend;� if you have visited China several times, a �good friend,� and if you have done all of that multiple times, you are promoted to an �old friend.�

If you or any of your staff are of Chinese ethnicity, you can expect a �private� conversation where you will be reminded that �blood is thicker than water,� to �not forget your roots�, and that you �intuitively understand us.� (On the other hand, if you happen to have Japanese ethnicity, decidedly less choice comments will be used.)

Of course, these professions of personal friendship are a show. In fact, even the term �old friend� echoes the old (mostly discontinued) Chinese Communist Party propaganda term, �old friend of the Chinese people,� a phrase used to publicly laud foreigners who were publicly sympathetic to the party�s cause

No, despite these proclamations, from these meetings or drinks, you will not become personal friends with the PLA, nor be pulled into the famed Chinese �friend network� known as �guanxi�. Beyond the centralized structure and insular nature of the PLA itself, Chinese culture as a whole is very high-context, reliant on nonverbal communication and understandings developed over a long period of time. Flattery, cajolery, and fulsome phrases are used with acquaintances, but genuine expressions of emotion are almost never used � even with loved ones and relatives. Ultimately, this use of �friend� is meant to draw you into a facsimile of social obligation, with the demands becoming greater depending on the level of your �friendship.�

Everyday You�re Negotiating, Negotiating

You have now survived the first day of introductory meetings, and more importantly, the first night�s lavish dinner with numerous toasts of maotai by everyone around the table, individually and in groups. (You did survive, right? Far better to accept the minor loss of face by covering your cup with your hand, or better yet, having a drinking proxy.)

With your status as �new friend,� you are ready to negotiate on the second day devoted to working meetings. Of course, this is by no means the first time your group has negotiated with the Chinese: this is a process that has been taking place on an almost-daily basis before, during, and immediately after your trip.

Be Ready to Take a Hike

For the Chinese, every aspect of your trip � logistics, protocol, language � is open for negotiation. Your staff, and the fine folks at the U.S. Embassy, have already been negotiating tirelessly on what may seem like minutiae: the leaders you will be meeting, the places you will be seeing, and where the VIPs are sitting at the dinner table.

It is standard with VIP trips that the itinerary will not be agreed upon until the last minute � almost literally so. Moreover, any �agreed-upon� itinerary is subject to change. People suddenly drop off due to unexplained emergency meetings; the units that you are scheduled to visit are suddenly �not convenient to visit at this time.� In other cases, the Chinese will use protocol reasons to justify unequal exchanges: the differences between the U.S. and Chinese rank/position systems provide openings for the Chinese to do this (for instance, trying to equate �Senior Colonel� with �Brigadier General,� or a Chinese Theater Commander with a U.S. Combatant Commander).

This type of reception requires both flexibility to adjust to minor (as judged by yourself and your advisors) changes in the itinerary � and firmness to openly tell your escorts that this treatment is not acceptable � and be willing to back it up by cutting the trip short if necessary. Remember that the precedents set on your trip may well set the baseline for further senior leader visits in the future. Saving face is not the sole provenance of the Chinese.

For the specific policy negotiations and discussions, the most useful thing to keep in mind is to remember, and not deviate from, your own bottom line. This sounds like Negotiation 101, but there is a real � and counterproductive � Western impulse to �meet them halfway� and shorten a lengthy process. Instead, the recommendation of MIT�s Sloan Business School for negotiating with Chinese investors is equally relevant here: �concede on low-priority issues and remain firm on high-priority issues.�

Know Your Frenemy

The overall success of your visit is pre-ordained � at least from the Chinese side. The more high-level the visit, the more the impetus for the Chinese to roll out a media campaign announcing its world-historic success, even before the trip is over.

Your assessment of success, on the other hand, will be hugely determined by how effectively you engage the Chinese. This requires cultural agility � an ability to communicate efficiently, even if you cannot speak Mandarin. Doing so is doubly difficult in this situation, as you will not only be dealing with Chinese culture, but with a Communist party army overlay.

Have Your Own Translator�

It is absolutely essential, if you are not fully fluent, to have your own translator. The PLA will provide their own, usually a uniformed professor from the PLA University of Foreign Languages, but relying on the Chinese for translations will put you at a severe disadvantage � particularly if any �understandings� are reached. Having your own translator will prevent any creative interpretations of what transpired, especially as there are numerous concepts that cannot be directly translated from English to China, and vice versa. This is particularly important if you or your counterpart are giving formal speeches during your visit.

�But Communicate Effectively

The issue of imprecise translation is probably one of the most difficult barriers to effective communication. On the other hand, demonstration of basic knowledge of the PLA and its structure will enable you to ask questions more effectively and get better responses. As an example of this, addressing your counterpart by their position rather than their rank (i.e., �Theater Commander Li� vs �General Li�) will show that you understand that position is more important than rank in the PLA. (Unfortunately, this example may become obsolete in a few years with the continued major reforms in the army.)

You will want to reach out to your department�s Chinahand or knowledgeable action officer to ensure that you can �name-drop� the correct terms on your specific subject. Similarly, this means that your trip preparation should ideally be focused on unclassified data, talking points, and subjects. There is a wealth of open-source knowledge that your action officer can access, particularly from the �ABCs� of PLA-watchers (Mr. Ken Allen, PLAAF; Mr. Dennis Blasko, PLA; Mr. Bernard Cole, PLAN).

Be Polite, Be Professional, But�

Dealing with the PLA can be an exercise in contrasts. There will be times when the hosting will feel superlative; there will be other times when things feel utterly chaotic, as a result of either negotiation hardball or honest ball-dropping.

Given this contrast, expectation management is key � both for the trip itself and for your goals. The multi-tiered structure of the PLA, internal politics, and power accumulation at the top of the decision-making apparatus (the Central Military Commission, with Xi Jinping as chairman), means that expectations of major breakthroughs are not realistic. However, with a solid bottom line, cultural agility, and clear communication, success � defined by promoting U.S. policy objectives � is fully possible. Given the stakes involved, in this era of long-term, strategic competition, incremental success is no small thing. May the odds be ever in your favor!

# ? Mar 17, 2018 19:59

Johnny Five-Jaces: Jan 21, 2009

i thought the point of that mahjong video was going to be some sort of caper featuring the woman putting her purse on the small table in the top left corner

e: war on the rocks, and particularly the Bombshell ladies, are Extremely Good

# ? Mar 17, 2018 20:04

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

dude who wrote that works for the US air force and has done a bunch of china trips apparently

# ? Mar 17, 2018 20:13

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Fojar38 posted:

dude who wrote that works for the US air force and has done a bunch of china trips apparently

Dude should be 100% in charge of all negotiations the US has with China as that is the most accurate/insightful understanding of Chinese "business" culture outside of "Poorly Made in China". . .

<looks at author's name>
<nods sagely>

# ? Mar 17, 2018 22:10

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Wiggles Von Huggins posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDNvqS9QPk

looks like magnets

How do they work?

# ? Mar 17, 2018 22:38

Ccs: Feb 25, 2011

I get the feeling that guy has been subjected to a lot of �blood is thicker than water,� discussions on his trips.

# ? Mar 18, 2018 00:44

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Ccs posted:

I get the feeling that guy has been subjected to a lot of �blood is thicker than water,� discussions on his trips.

it just goes unsaid that every loving CCP stooge is entirely bloodless

# ? Mar 18, 2018 00:49

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

Hey guys whats going on. Did Haier truly leave?

# ? Mar 18, 2018 00:56

Coolguye: Jul 6, 2011; Required by his programming!

Glenn Quebec posted:

Hey guys whats going on. Did Haier truly leave?

no, haier is bajaj now

# ? Mar 18, 2018 00:56

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

Coolguye posted:

no, haier is bajaj now

ooooh, cause he's in India. Yeah, this makes sense.

# ? Mar 18, 2018 00:57

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOGOMIzl7Nk

gently caress now i want an automatic mahjong machine and i don't even know how to play mahjong.

# ? Mar 18, 2018 00:59

Atlas Hugged: Mar 12, 2007; Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

Glenn Quebec posted:

ooooh, cause he's in India. Yeah, this makes sense.

Formerly, Bangkok now.

# ? Mar 18, 2018 04:09

Darkest Auer: Dec 30, 2006; They're silly; Ramrod XTreme

The Plunger cannot be contained in any one country. After all, the lines on a map are not drawn in peanut brittle.

# ? Mar 18, 2018 04:26

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

Did I miss any sick India stories about musty women?

# ? Mar 18, 2018 04:35

EagerSleeper: Feb 3, 2010; by R. Guyovich

I need to ask why is this thread called Plun'Qing anyway. Is it just plunging, but as a euphemism for sex, and Chinese?

# ? Mar 18, 2018 04:45

Injuryprone: Sep 26, 2007; Speak up, there's something in my ear.

EagerSleeper posted:

I need to ask why is this thread called Plun'Qing anyway. Is it just plunging, but as a euphemism for sex, and Chinese?

No why

# ? Mar 18, 2018 04:46

EagerSleeper: Feb 3, 2010; by R. Guyovich

I see I've already lost a lot of face already by asking.

# ? Mar 18, 2018 05:44

Kharnifex: Sep 11, 2001; The Banter is better in AusGBS

Haha, Outlander, you wouldn't understand, hot water is good for healthy, did you know? Plunging restores your chi, bit spicy food will give you mouth blisters

# ? Mar 18, 2018 05:52

CIGNX: May 7, 2006; You can trust me

You have lost even more face by admitting to have lost face. Instead, you should have thrown a temper tantrum, yell at someone, wag your finger or stomp your feet depending on your gender, and then end it by either destroying some property or laying on the street with at least two articles of clothing torn off.

Anyways, I forget whether plunging originated with one of the Chinese girls saying it or with the phrase "plunging the hair caves of China."

# ? Mar 18, 2018 06:05

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

CIGNX posted:

Anyways, I forget whether plunging originated with one of the Chinese girls saying it or with the phrase "plunging the hair caves of China."

*hunched over smiling with hands behind back*

# ? Mar 18, 2018 06:07

Bajaj: Sep 13, 2017; by FactsAreUseless

Yesterday I was going to a shopping mall, and there was a walkway leading into it that had like hundreds of people going one direction (away from the train station), and almost nobody on the other side going the opposite way. There was a very obvious Mainland tourist in big straw hat, elephant pants, huge backpack, and old people walking shoes, shoving her way through the middle of the crowd. Had she just moved over a couple meters she would have had the whole side empty for her to walk, but she was intent on fighting the wave of people coming at her. I got PTSD flashbacks to using the Metro in China in those couple hours after people would get out of work.

Blistex posted:

Dude should be 100% in charge of all negotiations the US has with China as that is the most accurate/insightful understanding of Chinese "business" culture outside of "Poorly Made in China". . .

<looks at author's name>
<nods sagely>

No way. Getting white guys with zero experience with the culture and people that they must negotiate with, while having years/decades of people sucking up to them all the time is definitely the best way a country of hundreds of millions should handle business. I think it's imperative that we get the least capable person for all specific jobs.

Glenn Quebec posted:

Did I miss any sick India stories about musty women?

Never been with an Indian. They're not "holy grail" material, either. I had an okay time there with my friends and eating at as many restaurants as possible. I did some traveling to different cities as well. Chaoshan Girl came out for a short time and we had a lot of fun. Then I kept getting supreme allergies that lowered my quality of life to being stuck in bed half the week, going through 70 tissues a day. This turned into a sweet never-ending painful nasal infection that would not go away no matter what the doctor gave me. I had to accept fate and abandon the place after a few months since I knew I could not get better with all that dust and the really high AQI.
I was planning on staying 8-9 months and set myself up for that. I cut my losses and came here to lovely Bangkok and live down the road from my family. Nothing interesting here to report on. CG came out and she comes again soon. Her mom is making GBS threads herself thinking the girl might lose her virginity to an imperial American. Joke's on her. CG met my dad a bunch of times and he loves her. She's source of gossip for the older ladies she knows, many of whom I met a few times, because they know I am here and how can a young woman go travel to meet a friend and not demand marriage of him and she is too open and bad.

CIGNX posted:

Anyways, I forget whether plunging originated with one of the Chinese girls saying it or with the phrase "plunging the hair caves of China."

It was from everyone, especially flybys, making fun of me for going on dates with office girls, all trying to say they were factory girls downtrodden gutter women I was somehow taking advantage of by simply existing in the same physical space, and me trying to defend myself by saying something like "I am not just some hillbilly plunger!"

# ? Mar 18, 2018 07:01

Ups_rail: Dec 8, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

yeah basically this is/was a problematic thread.

A white?goon having sex with the local women was a form of sexplotation and we'd get a few people doing vitrue signal drive bys about it.

Also the word nong was viewed as a slur so one goon every time the word nong was used would make a most of its entomology use etc.

Who the goldman sachs goon that had some fun stories?

I also remember hair was hated by sinx (I think) who i felt had a good point if you hate the place for your own sanity just leave.

# ? Mar 18, 2018 07:10

Pirate Radar: Apr 18, 2008; You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

I�ve never heard the word �plunge� used to refer to sex in any other context so if it�s some Appalachian mountain talk thing then you may actually be a hillbilly plunger

# ? Mar 18, 2018 07:10

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

Ups_rail posted:

yeah basically this is/was a problematic thread.

A white?goon having sex with the local women was a form of sexplotation and we'd get a few people doing vitrue signal drive bys about it.

Also the word nong was viewed as a slur so one goon every time the word nong was used would make a most of its entomology use etc.

Who the goldman sachs goon that had some fun stories?

I also remember hair was hated by sinx (I think) who i felt had a good point if you hate the place for your own sanity just leave.

I think "chinared" or something like that was brought up a lot.

# ? Mar 18, 2018 07:13

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Bajaj do you like the local thai women or do you prefer the objectively superior ladyboys?

# ? Mar 18, 2018 07:19

Bajaj: Sep 13, 2017; by FactsAreUseless

Ups_rail posted:

who i felt had a good point if you hate the place for your own sanity just leave.

It's funny to me that how the standard Chinese reply of "If you don't like it, get the gently caress out" that they always use on each other and anyone that says something negative about the place became a standard reply for any foreigner there. What I liked about China I really liked, and what I didn't like I really didn't like. It's definitely not a land of finding middle grounds to stand on. Everything is extremely polarized, especially the people nowadays.
It's really weird to see the shift in the general attitudes and thoughts of people before and after Xi came into power. Their only source of news is basically Chinese Fox News, and nationalism and their special "otherness" has been cranked up to idiotic levels. These threads are/were for those dealing or living in China to gripe and make fun of face culture and the ever-increasing insanity of the Mainland, and they were a good outlet for that. My memory is a blur of shitposting, but I never equated "God, I wish people knew how to loving use a loving escalator or not crowd an exit" into "FOREIGNER GO HOME!" I've always preferred to show the complainy and odd side of things because there is definitely no one else who would understand if they haven't been to China. Same with my stupid dating stories, because good dates are dumb as poo poo to read about. Everyone understands having a good time, enjoying some sunshine, eating good food, but many of the Chinese complaints are things only people who have direct dealing or experience with or in China will "get" without jumping to "thas raycist!!" We're all prone to gossip, and that's way more fun. I don't come in here to read "hot pot is good," I wanna read "hot pot is dumb !" posts. There are few China threads going on in these forums, and personally I don't want to read about lame goon meets and "we had cool BBQ at a Sichuan place." I might as well read some wanderluster travel blog.

Pirate Radar posted:

I’ve never heard the word “plunge” used to refer to sex in any other context so if it’s some Appalachian mountain talk thing then you may actually be a hillbilly plunger

It was attributed to me after I said I was not a hillbilly plunger. Now it means sexual intercourse in general in this thread or specifically to my activities. It's a funny term that actually makes sense, because unclogging toilets is just like sex.

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

Bajaj do you like the local thai women or do you prefer the objectively superior ladyboys?

I have talked to many ladyboys on Tinder due to swiping without reading every profile, and I have to say they are either extremely skittish, probably due to a lifetime of name calling and abuses in school and at home and society, or they go from 0-60 without any warning and are like "Yeah, the weather is good BUT IT WOULD BE BETTER WITH YOUR COCK IN MY MOUTH!!!!! It's supposed to rain tomorrow night, BUT I WOULD PREFER YOU RAIN YOUR SEMEN ON MY FACE!!!!!" Also, many of them seem to want money. I will admit I did add one cool ladyboy to my Line because we both prefer the same types of foods (I don't mean penis) and we share restaurant suggestions and food photos all the time.

# ? Mar 18, 2018 07:58

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

# ? Mar 18, 2018 10:00

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

Ups_rail posted:

yeah basically this is/was a problematic thread.

A white?goon having sex with the local women was a form of sexplotation and we'd get a few people doing vitrue signal drive bys about it.

Also the word nong was viewed as a slur so one goon every time the word nong was used would make a most of its entomology use etc.

Who the goldman sachs goon that had some fun stories?

I also remember hair was hated by sinx (I think) who i felt had a good point if you hate the place for your own sanity just leave.

Its me, the GS goon full of regret from that one drunken post.

# ? Mar 18, 2018 15:06