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I think I should chime in as a straight white guy and inform everyone that it does, in fact, kick rear end to be a straight white guy. Everyone should try it at least once.
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Mar 20, 2018 14:14
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I wish I was white sometimes. As an Asian Male, I feel invisible at times. But I get more attention than black women, who are even more invisible in American society.
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Mar 20, 2018 20:10
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My boss is a black woman and pretty much once a week some rear end in a top hat will tell her they "want to talk to a real banker." I've seen both men and women do this.
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Mar 20, 2018 21:21
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MizPiz posted:As a fellow white person, you are an embarrassment to our race. Yeah pretty much this. I would never suggest that people are responsible for saying something "the right way" for the sake of others not having to confront a different point of view, but I wonder sometimes if maybe something that's missing from a lot of public discourse about white privilege is the conveyance of the idea that something being pro-non-white doesn't mean that it's anti-white. Again, it's not that someone owes it to white people to soften their words or be more diplomatic or whatever, but I do wonder about it just for the sake of reaching a frequency that certain groups congregate. Accordion Man posted:Way too many white Americans are thin-skinned, willfully dumb, and sociopathic as poo poo, and I say this as a white American dude, it makes me angry. making GBS threads on us is well deserved. I don't know. I think that describes a lot of problematic people all across the world, and it probably has more to do with social status and privilege than ethnicity. Like I said above, some people just can't think on a level that can be reached unless approached from a very specific direction. Your conservatives, your Trumps, dictators in general, upper-crust people, etc. It reminds me of a book that I've been reading recently on the American civil war. It reads that there was growing animosity between the north and the south because southerners were being bagged on constantly over slavery. Slavery being horrible is a fact, but people being poo poo on more often than not end up getting super defensive, and that just created more tension and causes them to logic themselves into a corner that they can't get out of without capitulating to the person who's been making GBS threads on them.
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Mar 21, 2018 00:34
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widespread car ownership is responsible, wholly or in part, for a huge number of societal problems. We should drastically reduce the number of people who own cars.
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Mar 21, 2018 00:41
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Guy Goodbody posted:So basically all you get at the end is performative guilt. "Here are all the ways you benefit from racism" OK, but those are good things, I don't want to give them up. Does that mean I should be racist? "No, just be aware of your privilege" huh? "you know, just kinda... be aware of it" OK. drat this small business loan, surely it could be going towards a more deserving PoC! I am so aware of all the benefits I have gained from racism right now! Guy Goodbody posted:And most importantly, it's not actually true. The concept of white privilege says that white people will lose something if society becomes less racist. And that's bullshit. I'm white, and I will not lose if fewer black people are shot by cops. My life will not be made materially worse by fewer black people being incarcerated. In fact, I'm pretty fuckin' sure my life would be better if society was less racist.
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Mar 21, 2018 00:53
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Tiggum posted:Being aware of your privilege is about how you react to other people's stories and perspectives; recognising that others don't have it as easy as you do. When a black person tells you that they can't get a loan to start their business, don't think "well, I got a loan easily enough, if they put in the same work I did then they'd have got their loan too." Don't dismiss people as lazy when, in fact, there really are forces working against them. Don't assume that your experience is universal or that everyone has the same opportunities. You don't have to turn down the loan or disadvantage yourself, you just have to be aware that you do have it easier than a lot of people and that's not fair. I still think it's lame and not very productive to focus on the white person's experiences to get that across. Or to frame it as something the white person shouldn't have, which is absolutely what you're doing when you talk about it through the lens of white privilege. Tiggum posted:White people will lose some things if society becomes less racist though. Some things are limited and not everyone can have them. Racism makes it easier for some people to get those things. If there are four jobs at a company and ten people applying and there are discriminatory hiring practices then that reduces your competition for one of those jobs. First off, this contradicts your first paragraph. But more importantly, it's bullshit, because a less racist society would be a better society. A society which locks up millions of people in the war on drugs is not a society working at maximum efficiency. When Jim Crow ended, there was no corresponding spike in white unemployment. I really can't say this enough, a less racist society is a better society for everyone. There's another group of people who believe very strongly that giving more opportunities to black people will result in fewer opportunities for white people. They're called white supremacists. And you think they're right. The white supremacists are right, society is a zero sum game. But that's absolute bullshit. We can improve society for everyone
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Mar 21, 2018 01:22
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Guy Goodbody posted:I still think it's lame and not very productive to focus on the white person's experiences to get that across. Guy Goodbody posted:First off, this contradicts your first paragraph. Guy Goodbody posted:But more importantly, it's bullshit, because a less racist society would be a better society. Guy Goodbody posted:There's another group of people who believe very strongly that giving more opportunities to black people will result in fewer opportunities for white people. They're called white supremacists. And you think they're right. The white supremacists are right, society is a zero sum game. But that's absolute bullshit. We can improve society for everyone I don't agree with the white supremacists. They believe that some people will lose out and that would be bad. I believe that some people will lose out and that's fine. Good even. We probably also disagree on exactly who would lose out and in what ways. But some people (many people even) have advantages that they shouldn't and they are actively holding the rest back, because their advantages are dependent on others not being able to share them.
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Mar 21, 2018 02:39
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Tarantula posted:Americans live in their own little bubble, it's best they stay in it because it's annoying to have them pop out of it and start spewing stupid on an already stupid planet. Fighting stereotypes with stereotypes. Good poo poo.
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Mar 21, 2018 06:08
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Solice Kirsk posted:My boss is a black woman and pretty much once a week some rear end in a top hat will tell her they "want to talk to a real banker." I've seen both men and women do this. Statistically what's more likely; that all these people are racist/sexist, or that maybe your boss is bad at her job?
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Mar 21, 2018 06:49
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sassassin posted:Statistically what's more likely; that all these people are racist/sexist, or that maybe your boss is bad at her job? beware the ides of march lest she drop a gif without actually saying anything but implying you are a moral sinner. Grognan has a new favorite as of 07:56 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 07:54
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Tiggum posted:privilege is about how you react to other people's stories and perspectives; recognising that others don't have it as easy as you do. When a black person tells you that they can't get a loan to start their business, don't think "well, I got a loan easily enough, if they put in the same work I did then they'd have got their loan too." Don't dismiss people as lazy when, in fact, there really are forces working against them. Don't assume that your experience is universal or that everyone has the same opportunities. You don't have to turn down the loan or disadvantage yourself, you just have to be aware that you do have it easier than a lot of people and that's not fair. The contention is that what white people have, isn't a privilege. It's not an advantage that I got a loan more easily than a minority; it's a dis-advantage that the minority had more trouble getting a loan due to their being a minority. I am not treated nicely by the police because I am white, I am treated normally by the police because that is the appropriate way for the police to interact with people. This is not a privilege, I am not receiving special treatment. That minorities are discriminated against, does not mean 'not being discriminated against' is a special advantage afforded only to the majority, any more than 'not being stabbed' is a privilege afforded to people who haven't been stabbed. You can absolutely recognise that others don't have it as easy as you do, and not dismiss them as lazy, and acknowledge that there are forces working against them that aren't working against you, and that that's not fair... without couching the treatment of white people by society as being a bad thing, or that white people are undeserving of the treatment they receive, which the concept of 'white privilege' heavily implies.
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Mar 21, 2018 09:36
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nah kill all the gwai los
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Mar 21, 2018 09:48
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white people are being oppressed by the term white privilege
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Mar 21, 2018 09:56
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TheMaskedUgly posted:The contention is that what white people have, isn't words words words.. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow your head clean off and in an ideal and fair world, you're very unlikely to be shot, you've gotta ask yourself one question: "Do I feel like my luck will work out to an idealized and universally applied average?" Well, do ya, punk?
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Mar 21, 2018 10:09
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TheMaskedUgly posted:The contention is that what white people have, isn't a privilege. It's not an advantage that I got a loan more easily than a minority; it's a dis-advantage that the minority had more trouble getting a loan due to their being a minority. I am not treated nicely by the police because I am white, I am treated normally by the police because that is the appropriate way for the police to interact with people. This is not a privilege, I am not receiving special treatment. The term 'white privilege' is designed to shame white people and make them feel guilty about their station in life. That's why it focuses on whites' relative advantages in society and not the additional hardships and bigotry that minorities face. Is shaming white people an effective way to affect their behavior and beliefs in this case? That's debatable. Sometimes shaming works and sometimes it doesn't.
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Mar 21, 2018 12:12
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Shaming works (at least superficially) when people already have some doubt about the ethics of their situation. In other words, it may work for people who are affluent, educated, etc., since they are probably already aware of the inequalities of which they take advantage. Shaming people who are in debt, live in average homes, have to carefully budget their spending etc., those people are just going to be offended that you accuse them of being in a position of advantage, and are going to just reinforce their beliefs, convinced they are being manipulated by the elites. I think the past elections have shown that quite decisively. Anyway, I don't think privilege was ever meant to be a communications tool, it is an analytical, academic one. You are supposed to analyze privilege and then communicate with people the ways privilege affects them in personal terms. As I understand it, talking privilege directly, abstractly, just reinforces the denial since by definition people are not aware of their privilege, and will respond negatively to the idea of being advantaged without having it translated into their lived conditions. steinrokkan has a new favorite as of 12:51 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 12:49
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steinrokkan posted:Shaming people who are in debt, live in average homes, have to carefully budget their spending etc., those people are just going to be offended that you accuse them of being in a position of advantage, and are going to just reinforce their beliefs, convinced they are being manipulated by the elites. I think the past elections have shown that quite decisively. I think this is the point. So many lower-than-middle-class white people got so tired of hearing how they're privileged, especially under a black president (yes that's bad logic but it made perfect sense to them), that they pushed back and, well, voted Trump. When the focus is on how bad white people are for having these supposed advantages, many of which didn't apply at all to these poor rural whites (exactly the people we most need to reach, by the way), it only alienates. Add to this the now popular "kill all white people" rhetoric (seen in this very thread) and you guarantee that divide will never be breached. It may feel good to say it, but it will never serve to actually fix the problem, which is what we should really be striving for.
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Mar 21, 2018 13:00
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Saying "kill all white people" is as stupid as saying "send all black people back to Africa." Grow the gently caress up and find a better way to communicate your point.
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Mar 21, 2018 13:40
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Solice Kirsk posted:Saying "kill all white people" is as stupid as saying "send all black people back to Africa." Grow the gently caress up and find a better way to communicate your point. The point of "kill all white people" is to aggrevate a white snowflakes. Granted, it's not as effective as convincing their wives/girlfriends/moms to make a video for Blacked, but it communicates the point.
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Mar 21, 2018 14:28
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Ah, I guess that makes sense. It's not going to work and it's still stupid, but I at least get the "reason" now.
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Mar 21, 2018 14:31
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Saying inflamatory things to irritate people you don't know is still some edgy 14-year-old poo poo. But this is the internet so what did I expect.
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Mar 21, 2018 14:35
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1: Annoy snowflakes 2: ??? 3: Good things happen
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Mar 21, 2018 14:41
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Solice Kirsk posted:Ah, I guess that makes sense. It's not going to work and it's still stupid, but I at least get the "reason" now. Nobody expects it to “work.” Most people have just given up on having a civil dialogue with dumb racists.
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Mar 21, 2018 14:46
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Henchman of Santa posted:people have just given up on having a civil dialogue
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Mar 21, 2018 14:53
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sassassin posted:Statistically what's more likely; that all these people are racist/sexist, or that maybe your boss is bad at her job? Tough call. On the one hand, she presumably interacts with dozens, possibly even hundreds of people per week, so it does not take many assholes for one to throw shade at her "pretty much once a week." You have to be pretty dedicated to believing that we're in a post-racism society to think that this is an abnormal amount of racism. Like, more than enough people self-describe as racist to account for those results. On the other hand, most people are bad at their jobs. So it's a toss-up.
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Mar 21, 2018 14:57
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Collateral Damage posted:The source of all our current societal and political problems. Not really. Lots of people aren’t worth civility. Nazis, for example.
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Mar 21, 2018 14:57
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The only way you fix Nazis is State violence.
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Mar 21, 2018 14:58
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MizPiz posted:The point of "kill all white people" is to aggrevate a white snowflakes. Granted, it's not as effective as convincing their wives/girlfriends/moms to make a video for Blacked, but it communicates the point. it's just a played out meme as far as this forum is concerned
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Mar 21, 2018 15:06
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steinrokkan posted:1: Annoy snowflakes The Milo Yiannopoulos Strategy.
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Mar 21, 2018 15:09
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Straight White Shark posted:Tough call. On the one hand, she presumably interacts with dozens, possibly even hundreds of people per week, so it does not take many assholes for one to throw shade at her "pretty much once a week." You have to be pretty dedicated to believing that we're in a post-racism society to think that this is an abnormal amount of racism. Like, more than enough people self-describe as racist to account for those results. She's very good at her job. I honestly think it's more to do with her being a woman than her being black though. Our women bankers hear it a lot too.
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Mar 21, 2018 15:20
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I think the problem is that conversations about privilege aren’t intersectional enough, so there’s never an acknowledgement that someone can have white privilege but also be lacking that same advantage that class confers. Also, and I know you could call this a tone argument but that doesn’t make it not true, if I feel like you’re being a dick to me for absolutely no reason, I’m probably not going to hear what you have to say.
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Mar 21, 2018 16:06
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steinrokkan posted:1: Annoy snowflakes The goal is I think, to push them into becoming nazis, at which point they can be morally and legally attacked. Sort of like picking a fight with a dog, if the dog attacks you it's ok to defend yourself. doverhog has a new favorite as of 16:21 on Mar 21, 2018 |
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Mar 21, 2018 16:15
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MizPiz posted:The point of "kill all white people" is to aggrevate a white snowflakes. Granted, it's not as effective as convincing their wives/girlfriends/moms to make a video for Blacked, but it communicates the point. I've never seen an amateur housewife really cheat on Blacked. Private Society on the other hand...
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Mar 21, 2018 21:52
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e: haha whoops, I posted in this thread again and almost forgot that it is literally never worth it.
Olive! has a new favorite as of 00:30 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 00:25
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Never eaten cheese honestly don't see the point
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Mar 22, 2018 00:55
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EmmyOk posted:Never eaten cheese honestly don't see the point Reported.
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Mar 22, 2018 01:58
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EmmyOk posted:Never eaten cheese honestly don't see the point The point? It's the same as any food. Provides sustenance and hopefully tastes good. What else would the point be?
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Mar 22, 2018 04:44
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EmmyOK confirmed as a horrible mod
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Mar 22, 2018 04:55
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Look, if you wanna get rid of all white people in the name of racism you're gonna have to pony up and ditch all of Asia, too. Asia is racist as gently caress against everyone.
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Mar 22, 2018 05:29
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