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I'm building a puzzle encounter for a dungeon and wanted to bounce a scenario off everyone to get a feel for what my players might try. Here is the scenario: The players enter a room with a large orb of wind whipping around itself at high speeds. Suspended in the middle of the orb is an item they need. Moving through the orb will require a DC ~25ish Atheletics check, and will deal bludgeoning damage each step. The party is four level 6 characters, a Wizard, a Bard, a Fighter, and a Druid. How would you approach retrieving this item from the Orb of Wind? edit: The orb has a 15ft radius. CubeTheory fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 19:47
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CubeTheory posted:I'm building a puzzle encounter for a dungeon and wanted to bounce a scenario off everyone to get a feel for what my players might try. Here is the scenario: Would the wind prevent a net, or a blanket, or even a polearm or whatever being poked in and knocking the item out?
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Mar 22, 2018 20:03
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For a mundane solution, tie a rope onto a weighted net and chuck it at the orb? Athletics check with advantage and/or reduced DC. Damage is only taken on a nat 1 as you get dragged behind the orb or whipped by the end of the rope.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:05
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How big/heavy is the object?
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Mar 22, 2018 20:10
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The wind is moving at extremely high speeds and items would be thrown into the orb at extreme disadvantage. The object itself is about the size of a dinner plate and only a few pounds. I realized I forgot to indicate that the orb has a 15ft radius.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:36
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Mage Hand would be my first choice, then. With a wizard and a bard, one of them's gotta know Mage Hand. Is the item fragile enough that being dropped into the maelstrom would destroy it? Misty Step into the center and back out also works. How high up is the orb? Stretching a rope taut and having two people hold each end walk past the orb and using the rope to knock the item off should work, again assuming it wouldn't just break. Elysiume fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 20:42
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KittyEmpress posted:Is there any class besides ranger or fighter that synergizes well with dual hand crossbow madness? Homebrew and UA is allowed, as with my paladin, but a player wants to play what is basically a warhammer witch hunter with two guns (refluffed hand crossbows), but played a ranger last time we played 5e, and dislikes fighters on principle of them being boring and having little to do outside combat. It's not dual wielding crossbows: RAW that doesn't work, as you need a free hand to reload (this is part of the Ammunition rule in the errata, independent of the Reload quality). However, a single hand crossbow satisfies its own requirement to make a Bonus Action attack with Crossbow Expert. Anyway, besides Fighters, Rangers and Rogues, Kensei monks can pick Hand Crossbows as their Kensei weapons. But honestly, if you want to play this effectively, I'd tell your friend to go Eldritch Knight Fighter for the out-of-combat utility.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:43
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If the orb is centrally located in the room, tie something that can hold the object (such as a bucket, a helm, etc) to the middle of a length of rope, which (presumably) the Fighter and Rogue each hold an end of. Then have them pull the rope taut and slowly guide the bucket into the orb, and scoop the object into it. I would probably have this require (easier) Athletics checks for the characters to keep their grasp on the rope as it enters the orb, and maybe a straight Dex check to accurately guide the object into the bucket without knocking it over or missing it entirely. Or maybe one of the casters could use dispel magic on the orb; assuming it's a higher-than-3rd level spell, success would require a spellcasting check with a DC of 10 + half the orb's level, whatever that is. Considering that the orb is the crux of the encounter, I would assume that it's strong magic (like 6th level or higher?) and that dispelling wouldn't be enough to get rid of it. Maybe whatever magic sustains it is built in such a way that it renews itself automatically, so that dispelling it only keeps the wind down for a single round / action? So even if the bard or wizard dispels it, someone is still going to have to rush in there, grab the thing and get out before the effect kicks in again. The wizard could also Misty Step into the center of the orb, if it has a <30 ft radius. Or cast Levitate on the object, since that spell has a range of 60 feet and can lift up to 500 lbs. Then either let the wind toss it around, or try to catch it with something.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:50
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Of the suggestions I would think only Misty Step or Dispell would have any chance. No character is going to pull off any mundane way to get it. Short of a level 11 Rogue with max Str and Athletics Expertise. Because no one else is reliably going to make DC 25 Athletics checks. The wind sounds too strong for any rope/nets/weighted ropes/etc to do anything but get whipped right back into the idiot mundane's face. Remember this isn't high adventure mythological heroes. It is mostly slightly above average mundanes, if that, with potentially world shattering magic.
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Mar 22, 2018 21:26
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An orb shouldn't be able to have the same force all around. If you approach from above, then you ought to encounter an "eye of the storm" area around which the rotation is centered.
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Mar 22, 2018 21:36
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CubeTheory posted:I'm building a puzzle encounter for a dungeon and wanted to bounce a scenario off everyone to get a feel for what my players might try. Here is the scenario: You said the item is the size of a dinner plate, so I'm just going to assume it's a magical dinner plate. Assuming the magical dinner plate is inside the orb of wind and that there is wind present everywhere, I would try the following: 1) A magical item thrown into the wind; maybe magic items would not be affected. Especially if they are imbued with unerring accuracy. 2) Suspend an item above the orb of wind and then try dropping down to knock the dinner plate off whatever it's resting on, or knock it around if it's magically held in place. Alternatively, use a person and do it. 3) Find a way to create traction and walk into the wind. Stone covered legs, weigh someone down, spider climb, or otherwise make someone firmly planted to the ground. 4) Mage Hand the dinner plate and proudly exclaim, "And dinner is served!" 5) Cast Leomund's tiny hut as a ritual to create a dome of force to block the wind. Continue to recast it if it doesn't reach all the way to the dinner plate. 6) Druid shapeshifts into a flying squirrel or something that can glide in a wind and have them dive into the sphere in the direction it's traveling, spiraling closer to the dinner plate on each revolution. 7) Throw the useless Fighter into the wind and see what happens for fun.
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Mar 22, 2018 21:42
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Anyone know if there's a way to steer the randomness of the donjon generator? I like using the random as a template for dungeons sometimes, but need to just make a long ravine and would like to have it match stylistically with the other maps. Trying to set it to small cavernous and its just not working.
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Mar 22, 2018 21:46
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Yeah I'm struggling with that DC. My level 5 18 STR Paladin has Athletics so with his +6 I have a 10% to clear that DC. And if the party tank can't do it then it might be easier to just say "You can't get through" rather than hinging the puzzle on a crit. If you're looking for a puzzle solve have the party find random bits of origami and small kites scattered everywhere, even the rafters. Put a few pinwheels randomly in the dungeon. The wind orb is actually a bunch of young wind elementals playing a perpetual game of tag. If you throw enough ribbons, kites and toys into the orb they'll start getting distracted and blowing the paper dragons and stuff around instead of staying in the orb, weakening the wind effect.
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Mar 22, 2018 21:46
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The Gate posted:That's fair. I still think that wasting half the feat makes it a pretty poor deal all in all. As mentioned, Monks actually have some reaction abilities already so it's competing with those as well. Lucky is pretty fun and strong, and might fit a Drunken Master kind of theme, Mobile would double down on being able to move through enemies and make you even faster. Alert's another interesting pick that might fit depending on how you see him (actually super drunk, or faking it?). Fair points, all. And yeah, Lucky would absolutely be a good fit. I think of the guy as a drinker, but because he's an itinerant monk and being able to brew keeps water potable longer. In fights he's not so much drunk as just extremely fortunate. There are powerful, whimsical gods on his side.
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Mar 22, 2018 23:49
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CubeTheory posted:I'm building a puzzle encounter for a dungeon and wanted to bounce a scenario off everyone to get a feel for what my players might try. Here is the scenario: Can the casters creat a wall or manipulate stone to create a wall? I'd make a wall to diffuse the wind and snatch the orb that way. Alternate extended range Mage Hand. Also using magic to launch the fighter right at the item so they smash through the orb and out the other side.
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Mar 22, 2018 23:52
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Razorwired posted:Yeah I'm struggling with that DC. I would think that a wizard, bard and druid working together with the fighter cound defray the difficulty considerably. I mean, I don't know 5th edition very well, but a quick google suggests that an encouraging word from the bard could add a d6 to your attempt. Surely there are other spells that could enhance the fighter?
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Mar 22, 2018 23:57
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Going on the rope across idea, you could just a rope through the center of a plate or bucket or whatever, then attach the rope to each wall and ratchet it tight , then pull the object along the rope to catch the item and draw it out the other side. Otherwise I like the idea of the fighter (or druid in animal form) leaping up above the vortex and falling through it to bring the item with
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Mar 22, 2018 23:58
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Question on handling some specific checks: I'm a big fan of Passive Perception because it lets me check if the players spot something without giving away that there's something to spot. On the other side of things, when my players are trying to sneak, I don't have them roll until there's a risk of being spotted because I don't want them to second-guess their characters' sincere best-effort belief that they're hidden. So we declare them to be sneaking and then when they have to move past something, that's when we roll the dice. So far so good. But what if they don't know they're sneaking past something? Should I run a passive stealth check here? I'm worried I'll give away the presence of observers if I roll an active stealth check. Is there a better way to handle this? Also, any suggestions for adjudicating fair group-stealth checks (e.g. a group-average roll or X failures before group failure, etc?)
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Mar 23, 2018 00:01
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There are a ton of good ideas here I can design with in mind now. Thank all of you, I have a pretty goood idea of what they might try now and what the design should allow for.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:02
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Gridlocked posted:Can the casters creat a wall or manipulate stone to create a wall? I'd make a wall to diffuse the wind and snatch the orb that way. The correct solution is to summon animal (CR2 gorilla) and just keep doing it until one of them crits and retrieves the thing/punches it out of alignment. There is no challenge that can't be met by a mighty sacrifice of gorillas. JBP fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 00:06
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CubeTheory posted:There are a ton of good ideas here I can design with in mind now. Thank all of you, I have a pretty goood idea of what they might try now and what the design should allow for. Also CubeTheory go and bookmark this: https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2017/06/01/rationalized-skill-check-dcs-for-5th-edition-dd/ Its a fixed table of DCs for 5e that lets you as a GM know how difficult something is compared to what level your players are at. The point of this table is that when you spit out a DC you know how hard it is to make and how hard it is relative to your player's skillset it is. Something the book doesn't teach you unfortunately.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:10
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kingcom posted:Also CubeTheory go and bookmark this: I know what DCs they can pass, they have access to Bardic Inspiration, Enlarge, Enhance Ability, a Potion of Giant Strength, and a fighter witb +8 Athletics. If they really wanted to force it they probably could hit a 25 DC, I wanted to encourage them to be more creative. The orb originally existed to test an ancient people capable of flight and their mastery over it. There is a thin column in the middle of the orb at the eye with no wind. The ancient peoples intended their warriors to float down that column with extreme care and concentration. The orb was designed in lore to be impassable by force.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:17
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CubeTheory posted:I know what DCs they can pass, they have access to Bardic Inspiration, Enlarge, Enhance Ability, a Potion of Giant Strength, and a fighter witb +8 Athletics. If they really wanted to force it they probably could hit a 25 DC, I wanted to encourage them to be more creative. The orb originally existed to test an ancient people capable of flight and their mastery over it. There is a thin column in the middle of the orb at the eye with no wind. The ancient peoples intended their warriors to float down that column with extreme care and concentration. The orb was designed in lore to be impassable by force. Okay the question you need to ask yourself is really 'Do I want them to pass this skill check?' If you don't then you don't even need a DC for it.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:28
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Eh most of those spells would not stack. So if they went all out they would have advantage on a 1d20+8+1d6 roll. Vs DC 25. They might pass, but probably wouldn't. And this is not even that impressive of a thing to do. And yet they are unlikely to pass. A level 20 character, without using magic to just bypass it, is unlikely to pass. This annoys me because at no point do most characters ever feel truly legendary, or even all that heroic. Unless they are spellcasters.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:03
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Ryuujin posted:Eh most of those spells would not stack. So if they went all out they would have advantage on a 1d20+8+1d6 roll. Vs DC 25. They might pass, but probably wouldn't. And this is not even that impressive of a thing to do. And yet they are unlikely to pass. A level 20 character, without using magic to just bypass it, is unlikely to pass. This annoys me because at no point do most characters ever feel truly legendary, or even all that heroic. Unless they are spellcasters. I guess. I try to give my fighters magical weapons and armour over time so they can still enjoy the game with saying "I swing my axe, but I do it 3 times now". With the wind orb challenge one of our players has a once per day ethereal cloak, so they could just walk in and deal with the problem. Would be fun if it didn't deactivate the wind wall and he got stuck in there though.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:14
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How do you guys flavour your various Eldritch Blast effect's?
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Mar 23, 2018 01:24
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Ryuujin posted:Eh most of those spells would not stack. So if they went all out they would have advantage on a 1d20+8+1d6 roll. Vs DC 25. They might pass, but probably wouldn't. And this is not even that impressive of a thing to do. And yet they are unlikely to pass. A level 20 character, without using magic to just bypass it, is unlikely to pass. This annoys me because at no point do most characters ever feel truly legendary, or even all that heroic. Unless they are spellcasters. To provide context: I believe Bardic Inspiration is 1d8 at this level, giving them a 4 on this roll plus their 8 requires them to roll a 13 on a D20 with advantage which ia definitely possible and the room right before this one is specially built for the fighter to overcome with Athletics. Also, I understand that fighters are lame in 5e so I've piled abilities and gear on him, he has a lot of options
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Mar 23, 2018 01:38
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JBP posted:I guess. I try to give my fighters magical weapons and armour over time so they can still enjoy the game with saying "I swing my axe, but I do it 3 times now". With the wind orb challenge one of our players has a once per day ethereal cloak, so they could just walk in and deal with the problem. Would be fun if it didn't deactivate the wind wall and he got stuck in there though. Er not sure how that addresses the fact that many classes simply cannot be a legend in their own right. CubeTheory posted:To provide context: Well okay so one spell, no point in more since they don't stack, plus the Bardic Inspiration, which is I guess a short rest mechanic now if it is a d8, is still quite a bit of resources to try and accomplish this. And all that gives a mediocre, not terrible perhaps not even bad, just mediocre, chance to succeed. As you said need to roll a 13 or better, more or less, which means still considerably below a 50% chance for success. Assuming they can keep attempting to make the checks they would need another Inspiration Die for each attempt. If by chance they don't actually succeed before they run out of Inspiration Dice then it greatly lowers their chances of success. The thing is this all sounds like something a hero of say level 5, maybe less, should be able to pull off without trouble if they are specialized in being able to do Athletic things. But for some reason D&D has a lot of trouble emulating the heros and stories it was supposedly based off of.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:22
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Gridlocked posted:How do you guys flavour your various Eldritch Blast effect's? Do people use things other than Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast?
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Mar 23, 2018 02:40
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Ryuujin posted:Er not sure how that addresses the fact that many classes simply cannot be a legend in their own right. I guess that's just the way of a fighter. You're still just a dude that is good at fighting in the end, but your accomplishments and legendary status are written in your equipment. A wizard at level 20 should be an otherworldly God-like force. But a fighter should in turn have a trunk full of anti magic shields, javelins with tips made made out of permanently molten metal, amulets that harness wild forces and armour he crafted from the hide of a demon. I know this is way more DM dependent, but it's the DMs job to make the game fun and I think anything that just fights for a living deserves the finest magical arms and armour with lots of active effects and choices to make. I'm not sure how you'd make them more epic with rules changes since the point is kind of that you are simply a martial genius, but that unfortunately translates to "I hit it with my sword more easily and repeatedly". So yeah I agree that baseline a fighter in the nude isn't great, but a fighter in his gear with a plan to use it is able to fight so good even God himself will be cut and that's cool to me. e: I'm not discounting this because it's a common thing, but I know if I had like a level 10 fighter getting bored I'd have them find the equivalent of Thor's hammer so they suddenly fly, cast lightning bolts D6 times a day as a bonus action and make it bound weapon so they can throw it at poo poo. This is just my take on how the class is meant to work, but I've always just kind of assumed that fighters need fantastic gear no matter what game you're playing. JBP fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 02:40
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Or, get this, fighters could just be good???????????????????
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Mar 23, 2018 03:03
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Xiahou Dun posted:Or, get this, fighters could just be good??????????????????? I honestly don't understand what isn't good about them. You're a fighter which means you are limited to fighting, but why wouldn't you be doing aths/acrobatics checks to backflip off walls for advantage and other sweet poo poo, or requesting the DM let you cut off arms or whatever? e: I guess the other thing is that a DC25 check is pretty loving hard. If I shot a level 5 wizard with a psychic attack trap lets say and made the save int DC25 or instant death, I've probably killed him. JBP fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 03:07
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they should get a whole bunch of cool things built-in to the system, just like the spell dudes get in those 100 pages of spells
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Mar 23, 2018 03:09
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The way I run my fighter is to give them whatever subclass they want in addition to Battle Master. I also tend to homebrew gear that give them abilities.
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Mar 23, 2018 03:10
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alternatively you could make another system that did it your way for the fighter and the wizard - the wizard says a cool thing he does with magic and the DM says yes or no, no 100 pages of spells needed
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Mar 23, 2018 03:10
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JBP posted:I honestly don't understand what isn't good about them. You're a fighter which means you are limited to fighting, but why wouldn't you be doing aths/acrobatics checks to backflip off walls for advantage and other sweet poo poo, or requesting the DM let you cut off arms or whatever? a) you don't have skill expertise b) you are then forced to get into a long series of questions with the DM over what you can and cannot do at what cost and at what DC. For everything you want to do. c) the utility may be questionable, useless, or not worth it in comparison to the one second it takes to say "I roll to hit" d) 5e's DCs in the book are hosed and the way you assign DCs is prone to unconscious fuckery meanwhile, all a wizard needs to do to say they do something is... a) cast magic and it just works EDIT: I haven't even gotten past the surface of why your way isn't an answer to the actual problem and more of a really bad bandaid. Fighters in 5e are explicitly the garbage trash class because 99% of the time they don't use magic, and Eldritch Knight casting is pretty lovely if you do go it. The book literally says Fighters are unimportant next to Wizards and poo poo.
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Mar 23, 2018 03:11
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1) your argument is circular 2) Hercules could wrestle a river into a new course without wearing pants, why can't I play Hercules? D&D style wizards only exist in lovely Forgotten Realms novel and whatever, so why do they get to make a new archetype but we can't be inspired by thousands of years of myth and literature? Hell, Conan wasn't dependent on his gear.
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Mar 23, 2018 03:12
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Sorry I am not saying fighter shouldn't have more options, I'm just saying how I've been dealing with it. I agree there should be more scope to undertake incredible feats of strength and stuff as well. But I still think anything DC25 or higher being manageable, even with a little help, is meant to be legendary stuff. CubeTheory posted:The way I run my fighter is to give them whatever subclass they want in addition to Battle Master. I also tend to homebrew gear that give them abilities. This is a good idea. Yeah I homebrew stuff or give them itemisation quests/hooks which is just me making up for them being bad I suppose. I guess I just assume being an item magpie is fun and haven't had anyone ever complain about the way I get them going as a fighter. Xiahou Dun posted:1) your argument is circular Conan is a Barbarian hahahaheeeee 
JBP fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 03:17
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KittyEmpress posted:Is there any class besides ranger or fighter that synergizes well with dual hand crossbow madness? Homebrew and UA is allowed, as with my paladin, but a player wants to play what is basically a warhammer witch hunter with two guns (refluffed hand crossbows), but played a ranger last time we played 5e, and dislikes fighters on principle of them being boring and having little to do outside combat. Valor Bard with a good Concentration buff (possibly poached from another class, like Holy Weapon).
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Mar 23, 2018 03:18
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If fighters could be cool, you could make an entire class out of "Guy who might not be good but has the neatest gear"
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Mar 23, 2018 03:19
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