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Endorph posted:artists are proud of their work and enjoy having it be considered good, and have it be something they can be happy to have worked on. by boiling the issue down to purely capitalistic interests (who gets paid, how much), you are engaging in the same denial of art and its merits as the people who push artists to the breaking point in order to meet capitalistic deadlines. obviously artists should be well compensated for their work, but artists should also not be constrained by capitalistic systems into making subpart works. This is bullshit. Artists do not and should not feel pride in their own exploitation. The whole argument that artists would be invested in work for the profit of others due to the love of art is cynical nonsense, and lies behind how the industry is a soul sucking machine that chews people up and leaves only burned out husks. Every artists knows of the lovely client. You owe the lovely client nothing. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 23, 2018 00:43
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Dude, I'm not saying they should feel pride in their own exploitation, I say they feel pride in their art. Listen to or read any interview with anime people in the trenches about the work practices and they say the issue's complicated because they love their work and are proud of it. I'm not saying they should be invested in work for the profit of others, I'm saying they're invested in their own work.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:46
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Fangz posted:This is bullshit. Artists do not and should not feel pride in their own exploitation. The whole argument that artists would be invested in work for the profit of others due to the love of art is cynical nonsense, and lies behind how the industry is a soul sucking machine that chews people up and leaves only burned out husks. Every artists knows of the lovely client. You owe the lovely client nothing. Maybe some of the animators who were working on Maerchen liked the idea and wanted it to be good Like I started off being on your side here just because I don't think most of the animators involved in this project would be greviously hurt by someone laughing a bit at how the project melted down considering that it's not those animators' fault, but this weird class-conciousness revolutionary schtick you've whipped out here is, uh odd.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:47
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*listens to chapo once* TIME TO TALK ABOUT ANIME
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Mar 23, 2018 00:47
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i'm excited to see ishihama's OP sequence for p5...assuming he does it anyway gimme them credits
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Mar 23, 2018 00:49
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You don't even have to limit it to artists, people in general want to have pride in their work. That's not excusing their being exploited. Turning out poo poo work to stick it to the man isn't something people generally want to do unless they are actively trying to sabotage.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:49
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I'm just coming out of a conversation with a friend who is putting comic sans on a business card for a client because she hates the client. And that's being paid. The amount of pride artists feel in doing good work for arseholes is rather low.quote:if the question is 'getting paid and making something bad' and 'not getting paid and making something good' most people would be conflicted, but if the question was 'getting one up on CEOs' and 'making something good', with them not getting paid either way, I imagine most artists would pick the latter. Fangz fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 00:50
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Cake Attack posted:we're only at galaxy brain so far, lets see if we can keep pushing and get this to universe brain "ATLAS SHRUGGED NEEDS AN ANIME ADAPTATION"
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Mar 23, 2018 00:50
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Isn't Märchen Mädchen a Winter anime anyway?
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Mar 23, 2018 00:51
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the winter thread is dead
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Mar 23, 2018 00:53
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dogsicle posted:the winter thread is dead Just like Märchen Mädchen. They deserve each other.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:53
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Fangz posted:I'm just coming out of a conversation with a friend who is putting comic sans on a business card for a client because she hates the client. And that's being paid. The amount of pride artists feel in doing good work for arseholes is rather low. And I'm not arguing that the anime industry doesn't need a drastic, drastic overhaul, and possibly guillotines, but I think it's possible to serve two masters here. An artist can wish the industry was better and wish that they'd gotten to produce something they could be proud of. That's my entire point. You're so focused on the first thing that you're denying the possibility that they might want the second as much, or more.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wPl0zCDpSc interesting pv, esp considering the source material
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Mar 23, 2018 00:55
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Oh no, the massive own of comic sans, a thing only insufferable people care about.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:55
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Homura and Sickle posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wPl0zCDpSc it's awesome, but made by staff unrelated to the tv anime  https://twitter.com/Yuyucow/status/975753005734813697 the tweet is a real twisted knife, because it leads with destroying the illusion that Wakaokami was going to look loving amazing.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:00
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at least the dororo animator is probably working on mob s2 so he's doing something worthwhile
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Mar 23, 2018 01:06
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Fangz posted:I'm just coming out of a conversation with a friend who is putting comic sans on a business card for a client because she hates the client. And that's being paid. The amount of pride artists feel in doing good work for arseholes is rather low. jesus christ. this isn't equivalent at all. they're not doing a lovely business card for some gently caress in a suit. they're trying to help breath life into the story dreamed up on the figurative deathbed of a fellow artist and peer of theirs who worked as a scriptwriter on various anime, who wrote stories they loved, and who spent two decades staffing at comiket, a convention dedicated to art for the sake of art, not profit. they're dealing with characters they've grown attached to and empathized with. they have peers they want to support and guide. here's one of the staff wishing a happy birthday to airi ootsu, a seiyuu who plays the girl in the middle here. https://twitter.com/yamagata0725/status/975960632049594369 doesn't look like they want to disown their work, to me
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Mar 23, 2018 01:07
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Parallax posted:at least the dororo animator is probably working on mob s2 so he's doing something worthwhile *unsheathes sword limbs* you will regret this
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Mar 23, 2018 01:08
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Spiritus Nox posted:Maybe I'm not denying some artists might like the idea of the project and want it to succeed, but I'm saying self respect as an artist means you know that you need to let some projects fail. The whole schtick about 'oh to be art means you should forget about money and rights and stuff and work till you're dead for other people's profit or else you are demeaning art!' is pretty much a classic line from abusive clients. It comes up again and again and it is maddening. So yeah animators like anime and want to make good anime. But they should do that BY not being doormats, not making more and more sacrifices that only encourage more and more exploitative practices. And as western fans we should support them in this.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:15
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Fangz posted:So yeah animators like anime and want to make good anime. But they should do that BY not being doormats, not making more and more sacrifices that only encourage more and more exploitative practices. And as western fans we should support them in this. Clearly Maerchen's actual staff thought different, so this mostly reads like you chewing people out for not solving their problems themselves by being socialist or revolutionary enough for you.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:17
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Fangz posted:'Oh to be art means you should forget about money and rights and stuff and work till you're dead for other people's profit or else you are demeaning art!' Literally nobody has said this. Grats on blaming the victims of intensely capitalistic systems that are attempting to destroy both their livelihoods and their art, though.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:20
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Spiritus Nox posted:Clearly Maerchen's actual staff thought different, so this mostly reads like you chewing people out for not solving their problems themselves by being socialist or revolutionary enough for you. We'll see what actually happens in the weeks ahead I suppose. But I don't think the industry will realistically ever improve if they are not punished for their behaviour by their staff. If you wanna spin around my 'they should unionise' into 'you're blaming them for not unionising!' then I can't eyeroll hard enough. And yeah there are difficulties unionising. But the industry isn't gonna reform just to be nice, and audiences clearly care more about getting their anime than how the sausage is made - remember how this whole conversation got started? Edit: VVV yeah that's a post from Feb Fangz fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 01:21
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oh pardon, up there was the artist doing the manga adaptation, i mixed them up. here's an animator who did valentine's day art of the main chars https://twitter.com/AbSm_r/status/963437134458773504 their latest tweet is them saying they want to be like the chibi girls in the new game s2 ed
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Mar 23, 2018 01:32
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Space Flower posted:their latest tweet is them saying they want to be like the chibi girls in the new game s2 ed also https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-03-22/violet-evergarden-teases-new-project-in-progress/.129359 probably a compilation film and then a full film, if i had to guess. like kyoani loves doing
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Mar 23, 2018 01:34
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Evergarden seems like exactly the sort of IP that would benefit from a movie, IMO
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Mar 23, 2018 01:36
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Space Flower posted:oh pardon, up there was the artist doing the manga adaptation, i mixed them up. here's an animator who did valentine's day art of the main chars It's a good ED.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:40
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Endorph posted:ishihama directed from the new world, a story about weird teenage angst and society's flaws that expressed those things fairly well even if I don't even personally like it. He's also spent his entire career directing a ton of openings, including Bleach OP 13, occultic;nine, tokyo ravens,, and welcome to the NHK. I don't even like some of those OPs that much, but they show a clear interest and skill in stylization and visual language, which is something that fits Persona 5 to a T. Good to know, I will heighten my expectations for the adaptation, then. Then again, the source material has some issues as well, but who knows.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:44
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Hopefully the issues with the source material are something that the adaptation can improve on - at the very least, making stuff more consistent and cutting out a bit of the random filler would help.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:52
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Space Flower posted:oh pardon, up there was the artist doing the manga adaptation, i mixed them up. here's an animator who did valentine's day art of the main chars Their latest tweet about Marchen Madchen is them saying they only saw the 10 cuts of episode 9 that they worked on, and that they haven't see the episode yet, which was 12 hours ago. Before that they complained that an unfinished version of the poster they did for the show was being used to promote the Bluray without telling them.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:04
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was the new game s2 ed exploiting workers by depicting them as cute blobs?
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Mar 23, 2018 02:06
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Maybe they want decent working conditions like the girls in New Game S2.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:11
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Endorph posted:Hopefully the issues with the source material are something that the adaptation can improve on - at the very least, making stuff more consistent and cutting out a bit of the random filler would help. My own issues with P5 as a source material go beyond the gay panic, etc. and are a bit harder to correct since they’re kind of endemic to the Hashino trilogy, but the director sounds really interesting so maybe he can elevate the material.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:12
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id work any amount of hours if i got to see kou without pants on, opNeeksy posted:My own issues with P5 as a source material go beyond the gay panic, etc. and are a bit harder to correct since they’re kind of endemic to the Hashino trilogy, but the director sounds really interesting so maybe he can elevate the material. Yeah, very fair, and I agree. Hopefully he gets some leeway with the adaptation rather than it basically just being animating the game's script.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:13
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Fangz posted:This is bullshit. Artists do not and should not feel pride in their own exploitation. The whole argument that artists would be invested in work for the profit of others due to the love of art is cynical nonsense, and lies behind how the industry is a soul sucking machine that chews people up and leaves only burned out husks. Every artists knows of the lovely client. You owe the lovely client nothing. Its OK for artists to be over invested in their work, it's not cynical garbage, it's their business what they do with their time.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:16
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Endorph posted:id work any amount of hours if i got to see kou without pants on, op i thought working just for exposure was bad
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Mar 23, 2018 02:17
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Parallax posted:i thought working just for exposure was bad lol
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Mar 23, 2018 02:17
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heh i'll see myself out folks until next time.....
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Mar 23, 2018 02:17
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animator tweeting: ( ･̀ω･́ )✧ fangz: maybe it's a throwing star they're gonna use to kill their boss which will solve the problems of the anime industry
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Mar 23, 2018 02:21
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lol
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Mar 23, 2018 02:47
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having large amounts of wealth is inherently unethical and we should murder rich people imo
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Mar 23, 2018 03:04
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