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dissss posted:The real problem is the somewhat random nature of the new 'feature' - it opens some but not all of what was running before the PC shut down. Not the same stuff each time either. I believe it uses the Restart Manager feature, that was introduced in Vista, to inform running programs that the system is being shut down, and they should save their state so they can resume later. After booting back up, the restart manager informs the programs to resume their saved state. If Chrome doesn't save video-is-playing status and so on, that's on Chrome and not on Windows. They've had 10 years to get it right. And obviously only programs that actually know about Restart Manager and integrate with it will be able to do the automatic resume after shutdown/reboot.
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Mar 22, 2018 10:53
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isndl posted:It's nice for laptops or tablets that you're trying to conserve power on while moving to another location, but still want all your apps ready to go once you've arrived. Plain sleep is frustrating sometimes when something wakes it and then it's running hot in your bag for an hour because of some dumb reason, or it detects screen rotation and switches to portrait mode and all your windows get rearranged and resized because Windows is bad at putting things back where they were. Oh god, I swear that every lovely feature that I ever saw in windows (not only 10, though more there) was there because "but is great in laptops and tablets and ... gasp: phones. Windows phones. All 5 of them.
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Mar 22, 2018 12:36
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Volguus posted:Oh god, I swear that every lovely feature that I ever saw in windows (not only 10, though more there) was there because "but is great in laptops and tablets and ... gasp: phones. Windows phones. All 5 of them. Portable devices are a huge market so I'm not sure why you're so surprised Microsoft will cater to them; pretty much every kid going to college these days gets a laptop/tablet and lots of companies issue them to employees for various reasons. There's also a ton of optimizations made over the years to accommodate the comparatively lower specs that continues to be appreciable even on higher spec desktops - you certainly aren't complaining about the smaller installation footprint or the easier OS refresh/reinstall.
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Mar 22, 2018 14:31
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nielsm posted:I believe it uses the Restart Manager feature, that was introduced in Vista, to inform running programs that the system is being shut down, and they should save their state so they can resume later. After booting back up, the restart manager informs the programs to resume their saved state. I don’t give a poo poo if its technically Chrome’s fault or not. The fact is if I press “shut down” while YouTube is on and then I turn it on again YouTube will start playing the video before I’ve logged in. That’s 100% Microsoft’s fault. It’s one thing for YouTube to resume playing the moment I log in. It’s a totally different matter when YouTube resumes playing before I’ve logged in.
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Mar 22, 2018 17:18
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astral posted:That's more of a complaint for the browser devs/website devs in question, to be fair. Windows reopens the program; the browser lets the website go ahead and autoplay it. Same thing would happen if you closed the browser and reopened it yourself. I don't think you understand, it does it before you log in. You'll log in and chrome will be playing full volume, but other poo poo like steam or discord won't even start launching until after you login. It's really dumb you can't turn it off. If I close chrome and reopen it, it opens at a google page. underage at the vape shop fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 17:21
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underage at the vape shop posted:I don't think you understand, it does it before you log in. You'll log in and chrome will be playing full volume, but other poo poo like steam or discord won't even start launching until after you login. It's really dumb you can't turn it off. I am currently listening to John Oliver telling me about Mike Pence, staring at my login screen after a reboot and I haven’t logged in yet. This is stupid and something the OS should not allow.
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Mar 22, 2018 17:28
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isndl posted:For desktops though hibernate is pretty much unnecessary yeah, except for some corner case where you need to go into full power off but don't want to shut everything down or don't have time to (power outage and on lovely UPS?). This is awesome for desktops, you just put it in hibernation and it does not consume any power whatsoever.
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Mar 22, 2018 17:40
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Palladium posted:I like how I explicitly disabled automatic driver updates and Win 10 still prompts me to install them anyway because reasons. Driver updates can have security content and may be packaged as so, would probably override that setting
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Mar 22, 2018 17:47
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Mr Shiny Pants posted:This is awesome for desktops, you just put it in hibernation and it does not consume any power whatsoever. A desktop in hibernate will consume pretty much the same amount of power as one in sleep S3
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Mar 22, 2018 17:49
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I think the idea is that you can run things that you want to have as much uninterrupted uptime as possible, like home security camera software or network attached storage or what have you, but still keep up with updates and keep your system locked. It should really be a changeable setting though, or at least have an easy shortcut to disable it like when you do shift + shutdown.
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Mar 22, 2018 18:02
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:A desktop in hibernate will consume pretty much the same amount of power as one in sleep S3 No, because it will be completely off, which is nice.
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Mar 22, 2018 18:28
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:A desktop in hibernate will consume pretty much the same amount of power as one in sleep S3 Microsoft System Sleeping States Documentation posted:System power state S4, the hibernate state, is the lowest-powered sleeping state and has the longest wake-up latency. To reduce power consumption to a minimum, the hardware powers off all devices. Operating system context, however, is maintained in a hibernate file (an image of memory) that the system writes to disk before entering the S4 state. Upon restart, the loader reads this file and jumps to the system's previous, prehibernation location. I mean, S3 is still very low power usage because most of the hardware is shut down, but it's still more than zero. 
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Mar 22, 2018 19:10
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:I think the idea is that you can run things that you want to have as much uninterrupted uptime as possible, like home security camera software or network attached storage or what have you, but still keep up with updates and keep your system locked. Something that's supposed to be running interactively as the user should not be running without the user logging in.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:25
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isndl posted:Portable devices are a huge market so I'm not sure why you're so surprised Microsoft will cater to them; pretty much every kid going to college these days gets a laptop/tablet and lots of companies issue them to employees for various reasons. There's also a ton of optimizations made over the years to accommodate the comparatively lower specs that continues to be appreciable even on higher spec desktops - you certainly aren't complaining about the smaller installation footprint or the easier OS refresh/reinstall. Portable devices yes, is a huge market, windows portable devices however (except the business world) ... are a drop in the bucket (with phones being non-existent). But that still doesn't explain the hibernate crap. Not even a portable device (actually, especially a portable device, with its very limited storage space) needs loving hibernate. And now that I think about it, from the OS point of view, waking up from hibernate means that you just continue where you left off: the memory, cpu state/registers etc just gets restored. Now we can see why some people have 6 months uptime and never patch their computer when they should only to be forced down their throats by MS at the most inconvenient time. Take that Microsoft, you made your bed, you sleep in it.
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Mar 22, 2018 21:20
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Volguus posted:Portable devices yes, is a huge market, windows portable devices however (except the business world) ... are a drop in the bucket (with phones being non-existent). But that still doesn't explain the hibernate crap. Not even a portable device (actually, especially a portable device, with its very limited storage space) needs loving hibernate. And now that I think about it, from the OS point of view, waking up from hibernate means that you just continue where you left off: the memory, cpu state/registers etc just gets restored. Are you saying windows laptops are a drop in the bucket? Compared to what?
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Mar 22, 2018 21:45
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c0burn posted:Are you saying windows laptops are a drop in the bucket? Compared to what? compared with phones/tablets/light portables.
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Mar 22, 2018 22:06
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underage at the vape shop posted:I don't think you understand, it does it before you log in. You'll log in and chrome will be playing full volume, but other poo poo like steam or discord won't even start launching until after you login. It's really dumb you can't turn it off.
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Mar 22, 2018 22:07
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isndl posted:I mean, S3 is still very low power usage because most of the hardware is shut down, but it's still more than zero. Get a plug meter and look at what its consuming in S4 or S5. Depending on the mobo config it will read 0-3W which will mean fuckall to your power bill and s3 will be 1-3W.
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Mar 22, 2018 22:40
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Mr Shiny Pants posted:No, because it will be completely off, which is nice. Yeah good idea force your system to re-read the state of memory from the slowest component in your system to save one watt.
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Mar 22, 2018 22:41
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:Yeah good idea force your system to re-read the state of memory from the slowest component in your system to save one watt. Don't get your knickers in a twist dude, why save some energy right?
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Mar 22, 2018 22:52
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c0burn posted:Are you saying windows laptops are a drop in the bucket? Compared to what? Jeez they only sold 200 million laptops last year, it's a drop in the bucket! Volguus posted:Not even a portable device (actually, especially a portable device, with its very limited storage space) needs loving hibernate. Ah yes, the horrible burden of having about 4 GB of hibernation file (for 8 GB system ram) on this laptop with a 500 GB SSD.
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Mar 22, 2018 22:53
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i'm trying to find a piece of software that is simple without a bunch of useless features that just lets me put shortcuts on my desktop into labelled groups. as far as I can tell you have to pay for fences now
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Mar 23, 2018 01:31
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Bob NewSCART posted:i'm trying to find a piece of software that is simple without a bunch of useless features that just lets me put shortcuts on my desktop into labelled groups. as far as I can tell you have to pay for fences now Version 1.0.1 of Fences is free and still available on oldversion.com: http://www.oldversion.com/windows/fences/ I think version 2+ is where it moved to a purchasable product. I've used 1.0.1 on Windows 10, not sure if 2 adds any features because I'm not giving money to Stardock's gamergater CEO.
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Mar 23, 2018 02:18
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Rexxed posted:because I'm not giving money to Stardock's gamergater CEO. Whoops yeah I was almost going to buy something from Stardock, not anymore! Thx!
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Mar 23, 2018 02:36
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Palladium posted:I like how I explicitly disabled automatic driver updates and Win 10 still prompts me to install them anyway because reasons. Yeah this in particular is a drat mess. New install of Windows 10 Pro and I specifically went in to Group Policy -> Windows Update and set it to not install any drivers via Windows Update. What does it do? Installs drivers.
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Mar 23, 2018 03:25
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Volguus posted:Portable devices yes, is a huge market, windows portable devices however (except the business world) ... are a drop in the bucket (with phones being non-existent). But that still doesn't explain the hibernate crap. Not even a portable device (actually, especially a portable device, with its very limited storage space) needs loving hibernate. And now that I think about it, from the OS point of view, waking up from hibernate means that you just continue where you left off: the memory, cpu state/registers etc just gets restored. Laptops have been outselling desktops since at least 2010. If that's what you call "a drop in the bucket" then it's a good thing you aren't the one making the business decisions. 'Not even a portable device needs hibernate'? Is optimizing battery use an alien concept to you or something? Nobody wants to step onto a plane and step off twelve hours later with 30% less battery despite not having used it at all. Hibernate isn't any different from Sleep as far as users not shutting down to update is concerned. Neither of them affect your desktop-centric worldview where users may simply never sleep or hibernate or shut down either. Those machines are also the most important ones to be patched since they're the ideal targets for botnets. Stop being an rear end. BangersInMyKnickers posted:Get a plug meter and look at what its consuming in S4 or S5. Depending on the mobo config it will read 0-3W which will mean fuckall to your power bill and s3 will be 1-3W. If you're still drawing power in hibernate, that's down to your hardware configuration. A desktop might not have an appreciable difference (still nice to hibernate for power outage or moving or whatever), but a laptop can conserve significant battery life when it's not keeping hardware alive to respond to wake events. There's a reason why the default configuration for laptops and tablets will automatically go into hibernate after sleeping for a few hours on battery power.
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Mar 23, 2018 03:48
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isndl posted:Laptops have been outselling desktops since at least 2010. If that's what you call "a drop in the bucket" then it's a good thing you aren't the one making the business decisions. Yes, a drop in the bucket: https://www.statista.com/statistics/265878/global-shipments-of-pcs-tablets-ultra-mobiles-mobile-phones/. isndl posted:'Not even a portable device needs hibernate'? Is optimizing battery use an alien concept to you or something? Nobody wants to step onto a plane and step off twelve hours later with 30% less battery despite not having used it at all.
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Mar 23, 2018 04:37
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Volguus posted:Yes, a drop in the bucket: https://www.statista.com/statistics/265878/global-shipments-of-pcs-tablets-ultra-mobiles-mobile-phones/. No, something that there are literally billions of in use is not a drop in the bucket. No, hibernation optimizes battery life because you spend less time returning to a working state.
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Mar 23, 2018 04:44
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Volguus posted:Yes, a drop in the bucket: https://www.statista.com/statistics/265878/global-shipments-of-pcs-tablets-ultra-mobiles-mobile-phones/. Windows didn't pan out on phones, so Microsoft should just throw in the towel on laptops? What's your point? This whole derail started because you were mad about Microsoft making changes to accommodate portables when there are more portables being sold than desktops. We can ignore tablets and phones entirely here: there are more Windows laptops being sold every year than there are Windows desktops being sold. Volguus posted:You optimize battery use by shutting down. Hibernate, while not drawing much power true, is not optimizing anything. Yes, is better to go to sleep than be fully awake, but is even better to shut down. Hibernate draws the same amount of power as shutting down. You also preserve data so you can resume exactly where you were. That's the whole point.
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Mar 23, 2018 04:48
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What sets the duration of Pause Updates? Some clients showing 7 days, others 35. All Win 10 Ent 1709
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Mar 23, 2018 05:31
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isndl posted:Windows didn't pan out on phones, so Microsoft should just throw in the towel on laptops? What's your point? This whole derail started because you were mad about Microsoft making changes to accommodate portables when there are more portables being sold than desktops. We can ignore tablets and phones entirely here: there are more Windows laptops being sold every year than there are Windows desktops being sold. isndl posted:Hibernate draws the same amount of power as shutting down. You also preserve data so you can resume exactly where you were. That's the whole point. And that's exactly what I don't want. And it takes hdd space, where especially on portable devices is at a premium. For example the $1000 CAD Microsoft Surface Pro Core M 4GB 128GB has (as the name implies) 128GB SSD.
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Mar 23, 2018 05:38
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Volguus posted:When the changes being made provide a worse desktop experience (at the end of the day, their bread and butter) I'd say that maybe you should stop doing that. Or, release the version of windows for laptops where you fool around with this crap (and let it die like the old windows mobile thing did).
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Mar 23, 2018 05:48
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fishmech posted:Hibernation doesn't hurt on anything on desktops. What happens when you have say, 64GB of ram and a SSD?
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Mar 23, 2018 05:53
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redeyes posted:What happens when you have say, 64GB of ram and a SSD? You become an edge case, for now.
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Mar 23, 2018 06:01
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Volguus posted:When the changes being made provide a worse desktop experience (at the end of the day, their bread and butter) I'd say that maybe you should stop doing that. Or, release the version of windows for laptops where you fool around with this crap (and let it die like the old windows mobile thing did). This isn't the 90s anymore, desktop is hardly their bread and butter. Not only has laptop sales have eaten away at desktop sales, Microsoft has diversified into software and services (Office, cloud computing, search and advertising) as well as gaming and hardware. You're also ignoring all the beneficial changes desktop has received thanks to portables. Volguus posted:And that's exactly what I don't want. And it takes hdd space, where especially on portable devices is at a premium. For example the $1000 CAD Microsoft Surface Pro Core M 4GB 128GB has (as the name implies) 128GB SSD. Oh, the irony of using a tablet as your example of why hibernation is bad immediately after arguing that Microsoft shouldn't be making changes that would be a worse experience for desktops.  Good thing they've shaved off ~10gb since Win7 on the installation, isn't it? And the hibernation file for a system with 4gb ram is only 3gb. But guess what, Microsoft heard your complaints about space! Windows 10 allows you to compress your installation. That's not something they would have bothered implementing just for your desktop with its terabyte sized hard drives, eh?
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Mar 23, 2018 06:22
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astral posted:You become an edge case, for now. Funny thing is 2 years ago 64GB was sort of cheap and easy to get and so I have a bunch of machines I built with that much RAM and yeah, hibernation is turned off.
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Mar 23, 2018 06:22
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redeyes posted:Funny thing is 2 years ago 64GB was sort of cheap and easy to get and so I have a bunch of machines I built with that much RAM and yeah, hibernation is turned off. We're seeing SSDs approach 2TB for $300 (there was a sale last week) so soon having a SSD won't matter either! 
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Mar 23, 2018 06:44
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Hibernation is handy for a dekstop, on Windows 10 with a NVMe drive and 32GB RAM it takes maybe tad longer to return from hibernation than from a cold boot. Like 2 seconds more or something.
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Mar 23, 2018 09:07
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redeyes posted:What happens when you have say, 64GB of ram and a SSD? You use somewhere around 30 GB tops of your half terabyte SSD - it's the year 2018 and those things cost like $100 now. What's supposed to be the harm here?
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Mar 23, 2018 13:49
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isndl posted:Oh, the irony of using a tablet as your example of why hibernation is bad immediately after arguing that Microsoft shouldn't be making changes that would be a worse experience for desktops. While on the desktop I do have a larger SSD, throwing away 32GB or 64GB of them for something I would never use is dumb. Is even dumber to do the same thing on a portable where space is at a premium (they seem to price their lovely storage like printer companies price their ink). That they shaved off space form the initial installation is good, now you're taking all back by creating a hibernate file as big as the ram? Good on you microsoft. But they didn't do it because of the portables only, they recognized it as a problem after they released win7 as SSDs started to become more popular but were quite small (my first SSD was 80GB and I paid $200+ on it back almost a decade ago) and therefore they couldn't assume you will have the terabyte hdd as before. At the end of the day, all that microsoft has to do is to provide options: Disable stupid portable crap for desktops, and Enable stupid portables crap. For those drunken monkeys that want portables features on a desktop ... knock yourselves out. Make the defaults sensible for the machine you're being installed on.
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Mar 23, 2018 14:03
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