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Neurolimal posted:Slaanesh and Nurgle themselves aren't on good terms, considering their supermutant followers come up with stupid ideas like CHAOS: UNDIVIDED that doesn't necessarily transfer to their worshippers. Yeah, that's cool - chaos undivided is a thing but it generally waters down the bonuses specific to each power. You don't lean too far in any direction on the great compass of heresy or whatever. The adepticon list uses very specific and very hardcore Slaanesh and Nurgle powers to pull off its bullshit, not chaos undivided.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:28
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Hixson posted:I've recently discovered this is all i have left to live for At least you are alive, unlike Kirby.  Kirby
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Mar 23, 2018 22:28
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SteelMentor posted:Y'know, outside of the groggiest of tournies I've never seen anyone pull any of that poo poo, and even then a minority. This is true yeah, it was a problem in 7th because it was outright impossible to come up with a list without grinding against the very obvious power imbalances armies had, 8th is pretty good about casual play on that front. Tourneys for pretty much every game physical and virtual are all about trying to break poo poo. gently caress, even american football has been pulling stuff like supergloves that let players catch balls with three fingers. Like yeah shield-captains and flyrants are obnoxious in tourney play ATM, everyone ITT acknowledges that. It's just that we're waiting for the next Chapter Approved to drop any "the sky is falling" predictions.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:29
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TTerrible posted:Except it isn't. Slaanesh and Nurgle are supposedly not great allies and putting them together shouldn't be in any way optimal to that crazy extreme. It shouldn't be one of the best builds. Sorry I was just confused because Nurgle and Slaaneshi forces appear in the same codexes. Arbitrarily throwing a hissy fit because someone put a tzeentch sorcerer in charge of a detachment with a unit of berzerkers when they appear in the same codex is pure grognard poo poo. Edits: whoops I selected a Slaanesh Daemon Prince looks like I need to ignore 3 whole units and 70% of the special rules in my own codex because of my audacity. Edit2: and god forbid you try to mix all of the units in the Daemons codex together AnEdgelord fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 22:30
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AnEdgelord posted:Sorry I was just confused because Nurgle and Slaaneshi forces appear in the same codexes. Arbitrarily throwing a hissy fit because someone put a tzeentch sorcerer in charge of a detachment with a unit of berzerkers when they appear in the same codex is pure grognard poo poo. Personally I think it’s weird that you can take like 4 different hivefleets of tyranids in one army so each group of models gets Best Rules and there aren’t any drawbacks or penalties to doing so. You can even paint them all the same colors.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:33
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TTerrible posted:Yeah, that's cool - chaos undivided is a thing but it generally waters down the bonuses specific to each power. You don't lean too far in any direction on the great compass of heresy or whatever. This is admittedly a problem yeah; Chaos Undivided as a faction concept is a little archaic now that you can create micro-armies in a larger army (although it does let you field four gods worth of stuff, whereas individual god-detachments can only take three). Personally I'd be cooler with 30k if it was stable at a lower points level, and even if that's not how it's meant to be played I'd still say superheavy/deathstars are still an issue since a lot of newcomers aren't going to dive into 2000+ points worth of stuff for a new game (especially at GW prices). Hell, I'm pretty lean on cash generally myself, and even with penny pinching I'm still slowly accumulating stuff for a Sisters/Legion army. So 8th-ed's 500pt detachments for a 1500 match are super helpful for me. tallkidwithglasses posted:Personally I think its weird that you can take like 4 different hivefleets of tyranids in one army so each group of models gets Best Rules and there arent any drawbacks or penalties to doing so. You can even paint them all the same colors. I dont think you can take 4 hivefleets; detachment limit for matched play is 3
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Mar 23, 2018 22:33
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Personally I think it’s weird that you can take like 4 different hivefleets of tyranids in one army so each group of models gets Best Rules and there aren’t any drawbacks or penalties to doing so. You can even paint them all the same colors. There should definitely be drawbacks to mix and match and benefits to staying mono-faction. The fact that I’m a thread identified fluff-loving autist aside, it would just make for much more interesting choices instead of pushing the Best button over and over.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:35
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Shadin posted:There should definitely be drawbacks to mix and match and benefits to staying mono-faction. The fact that I’m a thread identified fluff-loving autist aside, it would just make for much more interesting choices instead of pushing the Best button over and over.  E: that being said, it should be a choice not a trap-option. There should be carefully weighed costs and benefits to each. It’s just that GW isn’t great at the whole “let’s play test this under the actual conditions a lot of people play 40k under (that is, somewhere between “imma just throw poo poo on the board and roll” and “ITC top-3 tournament player” but probably more towards the second because making a rule set competitively balanced will tend to make it more narratively balanced as well). Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 22:36
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Has anyone seen any further details of that terrain that showed up in the Kill Team, video? I'm looking to add some more stuff and that might be cool...or it might be overpriced trash. We shall see? Also wanting to get back into Necromunda so might just do the Sector Mechanics stuff instead.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:36
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Neurolimal posted:This is admittedly a problem yeah; Chaos Undivided as a faction concept is a little archaic now that you can create micro-armies in a larger army (although it does let you field four gods worth of stuff, whereas individual god-detachments can only take three). Ok, personally I think its weird that you can take 3 different hivefleets of tyranids in one army so each group of models gets Best Rules and there arent any drawbacks or penalties to doing so. You can even paint them all the same colors. Also 1500 point Horus Hersey is fun, and ZM and VisV are super fun and are in the 500-1000 point range.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:37
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tallkidwithglasses posted:You do know that LoWs can’t be more than 25% of your army in 30k right? I like it but haven't touched it since 8th came out. Partially because there is exactly one other person who plays and he spends lots of money on chinese resin. I just wanna play big legion tac squads but I feel very heavily encouraged to shell out for a primarch or a big squad of whatever my legions' 2w fuckoff terminator is and a nigh unkillable transport drive them around in.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:37
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Der Waffle Mous posted:I like it but haven't touched it since 8th came out. Partially because there is exactly one other person who plays and he spends lots of money on chinese resin. Well, my friend, that's why you have Centurion, where you can smash piles of tac marines into each other.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:39
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Der Waffle Mous posted:and he spends lots of money on resin. Yeah that's how you play 30k actually. I don't know why people are even talking about rules in here.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:40
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Personally I think it’s weird that you can take like 4 different hivefleets of tyranids in one army so each group of models gets Best Rules and there aren’t any drawbacks or penalties to doing so. You can even paint them all the same colors. I think thats weird too, but it has little to do with what I'm saying since those keywords aren't permanently attached to specific models. I should be able to put Bloodletters and Daemonettes on the table together without getting lectured on how "unfluffy" that list is, especially when I can point to actual examples in the fluff where such a pairing happened.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:41
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Detachments beyond 1 should cost significant CP. Theory it away as the difficulties integrating different command structures.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:42
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Ok, personally I think its weird that you can take 3 different hivefleets of tyranids in one army so each group of models gets Best Rules and there arent any drawbacks or penalties to doing so. You can even paint them all the same colors. Zone Mortalis does indeed own and I wish it was more common in/a part of 40k.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:42
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Sick of the toxic fake-resin buying losers making GBS threads up this thread. I want to get back to hearing how every list is terrible because it doesn't contain enough shadowswords.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:43
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General Olloth posted:Yeah that's how you play 30k actually. I don't know why people are even talking about rules in here. This is disingenuous. You can also play by spending lots of money on the plastic BaC and BoP boxes.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:43
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AnEdgelord posted:I think thats weird too, but it has little to do with what I'm saying since those keywords aren't permanently attached to specific models. I should be able to put Bloodletters and Daemonettes on the table together without getting lectured on how "unfluffy" that list is, especially when I can point to actual examples in the fluff where such a pairing happened. Please explain how using multiple detachments of different keywords to create a soup is different than what you’re saying tia.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:46
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I'm pretty pro not having any weird arbitrary restrictions on your unit choices within a given codex but also things like having khorne berzerkers in an Emperors Children detachment offends my sensibilities.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:47
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Neurolimal posted:This is admittedly a problem yeah; Chaos Undivided as a faction concept is a little archaic now that you can create micro-armies in a larger army (although it does let you field four gods worth of stuff, whereas individual god-detachments can only take three). There are smaller ways to play 30k. Zone Mortalis and Victory is Vengeance are great. ZM in particular is insane levels of fun and has missions balanced for 500, 750 and 1k points. Take a look at that if you get the itch. AnEdgelord posted:Sorry I was just confused because Nurgle and Slaaneshi forces appear in the same codexes. Arbitrarily throwing a hissy fit because someone put a tzeentch sorcerer in charge of a detachment with a unit of berzerkers when they appear in the same codex is pure grognard poo poo. Did you see how Neurolimal replied to me while not agreeing with me and wasn't a complete cockbag?
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Mar 23, 2018 22:50
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Der Waffle Mous posted:I like it but haven't touched it since 8th came out. Partially because there is exactly one other person who plays and he spends lots of money on chinese resin. Three cheers for supporting the hobby and all, but I can't really blame someone for not purchasing legit-everything in a forgeworld model-majority game 
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Mar 23, 2018 22:51
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Please explain how using multiple detachments of different keywords to create a soup is different than what you’re saying tia. I don't get to select my keywords for my Bloodletters and Daemonettes, I cannot have one set of Bloodletters that have different faction rules than another. Der Waffle Mous posted:I'm pretty pro not having any weird arbitrary restrictions on your unit choices within a given codex but also things like having khorne berzerkers in an Emperors Children detachment offends my sensibilities. You actually aren't allowed to do this. Berzerker's come with the Mark of Khorne and everything in an Emperor's Children detachment must have the Mark of Slaanesh.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:52
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We're already criticising 8th edition and talking about 30k in this thread, please don't bring up recasts because someone will stroke out.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:53
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To be fair, judging by the amount of lists coming out of places like LVO and Adepticon and such, 8th edition really is great game. It must be to have that many people passionately play it and support the game.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:56
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DJ Dizzy posted:To be fair, judging by the amount of lists coming out of places like LVO and Adepticon and such, 8th edition really is great game. It must be to have that many people passionately play it and support the game. You are uninvited from LVO next year. 
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Mar 23, 2018 22:57
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DJ Dizzy posted:To be fair, judging by the amount of lists coming out of places like LVO and Adepticon and such, 8th edition really is great game. It must be to have that many people passionately play it and support the game. Actually no games are good, least of all the monstrosity known as 40k
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Mar 23, 2018 22:57
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AnEdgelord posted:I don't get to select my keywords for my Bloodletters and Daemonettes, I cannot have one set of Bloodletters that have different faction rules than another. The point I’m making is that it’s fine for a codex to have a couple different lists/mini factions within it. Those lists can even have unique models, like Chaos gods, deathwing/ravenwing, whatever. I do not like how easy it is to squish all those lists together into one army by abusing detachments. I think it should be possible to do so, but I think it ought to have a drawback. There is currently no downside, which again implies the problem is how detachments are constructed.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:58
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AnEdgelord posted:You actually aren't allowed to do this. Berzerker's come with the Mark of Khorne and everything in an Emperor's Children detachment must have the Mark of Slaanesh. I realize that you might be right but "If they are able to do so" seems to grant a looooot of leeway.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:01
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I have not played 40k since...3rd edition, I think, and I am so amused, skimming these last handful of pages, that apparently Hive Tyrants are still overpowered and the source of much complaining. Spamming Tyrants/Carnifex back then alongside the cheapest spammiest Gaunts was the way to go back in the day.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:01
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Re: 8th vs 7th There’s a huge difference between this edition and the previous- GW has stated that beginning with this edition they will constantly tweak rules to compensate for the meta. This has already occurred by changing flyers and boosting LRs. They have a history of also analyzing tournaments and events, and so I have confidence that they will adjust fire based on what is seen out of Adepticon.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:03
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Captain Invictus posted:I have not played 40k since...3rd edition, I think, and I am so amused, skimming these last handful of pages, that apparently Hive Tyrants are still overpowered and the source of much complaining. Spamming Tyrants/Carnifex back then alongside the cheapest spammiest Gaunts was the way to go back in the day. On the bright side, most Tyranid models are actually good now, so it's less a matter of "I must pick flyrants if I dont want to be destroyed utterly even in a casual game" and more a matter of "these models are a bit too cost-effective".
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Mar 23, 2018 23:03
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tallkidwithglasses posted:The point I’m making is that it’s fine for a codex to have a couple different lists/mini factions within it. Those lists can even have unique models, like Chaos gods, deathwing/ravenwing, whatever. I do not like how easy it is to squish all those lists together into one army by abusing detachments. I think it should be possible to do so, but I think it ought to have a drawback. There is currently no downside, which again implies the problem is how detachments are constructed. I don't really think its abusing the system to recreate the exact same army lists that Chaos Daemons have had since they got their own book. Hell one of the early viable lists for their codex was Skarbrand leading a bunch of Daemonettes all the way back in 5th edition. Plus I think attempting to create drawbacks to such a system is just going to undo a bit of the streamlining that has been done in 8th. I'd almost rather just live in a world where there was no codex mixing outside of specific examples (Daemons and CSM, Admech and Knights, Genestealers and Tyranids) or even no codex mixing at all.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:05
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OhDearGodNo posted:This has already occurred by changing flyers and boosting LRs. They have a history of also analyzing tournaments and events, and so I have confidence that they will adjust fire based on what is seen out of Adepticon. Yeah. GW has historically always been good at this. That's how they have survived this long.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:05
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I am absolutely sympathetic to the viewpoint of "smash together three different codexes in an army if you want but you can only pick one set of traits that applies"
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Mar 23, 2018 23:14
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TTerrible posted:We're already criticising 8th edition and talking about 30k in this thread, please don't bring up recasts because someone will stroke out. Wait, there are actual anti-recast people? Here? 
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Mar 23, 2018 23:16
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Der Waffle Mous posted:I am absolutely sympathetic to the viewpoint of "smash together three different codexes in an army if you want but you can only pick one set of traits that applies" Yeah pretty much this. I get that people ITT are clinging to a false belief that a game where you make hundreds of dice rolls over a couple hours is streamlined, but the rot at the heart of 8th is pretty obviously how easy it is to construct detachments and it doesn’t seem unreasonable to impost a penalty for jamming too many keywords into your army. There’s a happy middle ground where you can still take an “imperium” army or chaos undivided or several flavors of bug without going full NO ALLIES LOL like edgelord was discussing or the current implementation where there aren’t any drawbacks.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:17
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Schadenboner posted:Wait, there are actual anti-recast people? Here? Violently.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:19
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Schadenboner posted:Wait, there are actual anti-recast people? Here? Buying recasts is bad. FW are an excellent company who need to be fully compensated for their amazing sculpting and fantastic quality.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:19
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7E vs. 8E: 8E for loving ever. Tyranids 6E codex. Orks 7E codex. I rest my case.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:20
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