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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:cool, i'll have to check it out then. i'm not opposed to reading trashy wn's about some cool lady who reincarnates and starts kicking rear end, but those creepy loving love interests are ubiquitous in the genre. i guess that's the romantic ideal for the target audience? tbf this is more or less a problem with romance novels as a whole rather than xianxia-specific
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Mar 24, 2018 22:59
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It's a 'problem' like violence in video games is a problem.
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Mar 24, 2018 23:07
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Megazver posted:It's a 'problem' like violence in video games is a problem. i'm not a "nice guy" who constantly rages about how women only love JERKS, but would it kill the male leads to be slightly less rapey e: though this might be because i was reading novelupdates book descriptions for a laugh and like 90% of the female protagonist xianxia ones were "i reincarnated and became powerful but emperor creepy mcrape is all up in my business" Yinlock fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Mar 25, 2018 |
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Mar 25, 2018 02:16
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So on Forge of Destiny, I went back and looked over a few older chapters/updates. One thing that stood out to me, and makes me feel pretty good about Cai Renxiang, is that she did show some pretty decent consideration and regard of Ling Qi going pretty far back. I didn't really have a dog in the race, but Cai's actions earlier in the quest stood out to me. In fact, she seems to have a repeated behavior of looking after Ling Qi's safety when Thunderdome type situations spring up, and when it's not her, Gan Guangli seems to serve a similar role. I think it's also interesting that her other recruit/retainer, Gan Guangli, comes from the background he does. It seems like she tries to pick out people that have been victims of injustice and abuse by those stronger than them. Admittedly, a small sample size for any major statement, but she seems to genuinely try to do good things.
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Mar 26, 2018 01:07
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SerSpook posted:So on Forge of Destiny, I went back and looked over a few older chapters/updates. One thing that stood out to me, and makes me feel pretty good about Cai Renxiang, is that she did show some pretty decent consideration and regard of Ling Qi going pretty far back. I didn't really have a dog in the race, but Cai's actions earlier in the quest stood out to me. In fact, she seems to have a repeated behavior of looking after Ling Qi's safety when Thunderdome type situations spring up, and when it's not her, Gan Guangli seems to serve a similar role. While I agree she tries to do good things, I would not say Ling Qi is a good example of someone who has been victim of injustice and abuse by those stronger than her? Hell, Su Ling/ Li Suyin/ Ji Rong would be better example of those, really. What Ling Qi exhibited was both talent and a significant loyal streak, as well as the capacity to submit to those stronger than her. Arkeus fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Mar 26, 2018 |
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Mar 26, 2018 11:41
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Arkeus posted:While I agree she tries to do good things, I would say Ling Qi is a good example of someone who has been victim of injustice and abuse by those stronger than her? Hell, Su Ling/ Li Suyin/ Ji Rong would be better example of those, really. I agree with you, but I think rewarding the loyalty of those who submit to you is as close to the definition of a good leader as you get in Xianxia.
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Mar 26, 2018 14:23
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:uh, wrong thread i think? I dont know how I managed to do that
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Mar 26, 2018 17:05
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Jester Mcgee posted:I agree with you, but I think rewarding the loyalty of those who submit to you is as close to the definition of a good leader as you get in Xianxia. That, and being nice to people who are nice to you, instead of ripping them off or stabbing them in the back instantly.
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Mar 26, 2018 18:10
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Arkeus posted:While I agree she tries to do good things, I would not say Ling Qi is a good example of someone who has been victim of injustice and abuse by those stronger than her? Hell, Su Ling/ Li Suyin/ Ji Rong would be better example of those, really. I'd imagine a significant amount of abuse by those stronger than her, in some capacity, would have happened in her past? It's kind of part of the background. Not necessarily the institutional injustices but just the normal, everyday poo poo, that would come with being a runaway child on the streets.
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Mar 26, 2018 18:48
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I just read through Risou no Himo Seikatsu and was quite pleasantly surprised by it. It hadn't sounded very promising from the title and premise, but sucked me in good. It does a good job of throwing away almost every usual trope you get with these things. It's fantasyland India instead of fantasyland Europe, the magic is not played up all that much, there's no real harem (even though the MC is basically literally living in a harem in the original meaning of the word), and his using modern knowledge to improve the world is more of a part-time hobby rather than a major driver of the plot. Instead it's almost entirely about the culture gap of wedding into a different social status, in a different culture, in a different country, in a different time period, in a different world, and then balancing a successful marriage on top of all that while challenging gender roles.
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Mar 27, 2018 16:50
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Bakanogami posted:I just read through Risou no Himo Seikatsu and was quite pleasantly surprised by it. It hadn't sounded very promising from the title and premise, but sucked me in good. The best part is all the readers complaining about the MC being a typical beta MC with no ambition, when the title translates to The ideal gigolo life.
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Mar 27, 2018 22:33
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Cynic Jester posted:The best part is all the readers complaining about the MC being a typical beta MC with no ambition, when the title translates to The ideal gigolo life. He's married to hot royalty, he's kinda already reached the pinnacle and getting more ambitious has a decent chance of getting him killed.
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Mar 27, 2018 23:53
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well, it's in the name of the wn. he's a consort, not a hero, villain or ruler. that's the basic premise.
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Mar 28, 2018 00:02
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SerSpook posted:So on Forge of Destiny, I went back and looked over a few older chapters/updates. One thing that stood out to me, and makes me feel pretty good about Cai Renxiang, is that she did show some pretty decent consideration and regard of Ling Qi going pretty far back. I didn't really have a dog in the race, but Cai's actions earlier in the quest stood out to me. In fact, she seems to have a repeated behavior of looking after Ling Qi's safety when Thunderdome type situations spring up, and when it's not her, Gan Guangli seems to serve a similar role. Cai is also just being pragmatic. She's taking people who are extremely talented (which is true of both Gan Guangli and Li Qing) and investing in them. Getting someone like Ling Qi aligned with you is a big win, and she's smart enough to realize that. Even Sun Liling commented on how it may have been a mistake for her to not pursue Ling Qi as a roommate back at the beginning of the year. So even though I think she's sincere about pursuing her ideal of "justice," she's also making decisions that benefit her and aren't being done just out of the goodness of her heart. Her idea of justice is also sort of morally ambiguous. My impression is that it's a very oppressive sort of justice that trades freedom for security. Also, there aren't many options among the top students who don't already have a clear alignment (usually because they're a noble themselves). Ling Qi might be the only one who isn't already with a family. Regarding Gan Guangli, he's probably one of the characters I've been the most disappointed hasn't been chosen much by readers. I believe he's the only character other than Su Ling who comes from a commoner/equivalent background (I think Li Suyin is the daughter of some rich merchant?), and he also seems to fit Ling Qi's ideal for male attractiveness (i.e. being swole and shirtless a lot). Arkeus posted:While I agree she tries to do good things, I would not say Ling Qi is a good example of someone who has been victim of injustice and abuse by those stronger than her? Hell, Su Ling/ Li Suyin/ Ji Rong would be better example of those, really. Ah, I forgot about Ji Rong. Yeah, Ji Rong is the most obvious "unaffiliated person who is both talented and the victim of injustice" and by all accounts Cai, at the very least, did not seek him out before Sun Liling (though it's possible he sought out Sun Liling really fast because he apparently has the hots for her). And yeah, this is basically my general impression; Cai is just making decisions that are very pragmatic. She also invests a lot in Meizhen. That's a big reason she meets with her so much; she wants to ensure she keeps such a strong ally. Jester Mcgee posted:I agree with you, but I think rewarding the loyalty of those who submit to you is as close to the definition of a good leader as you get in Xianxia. To be fair, the world of Forge of Destiny doesn't seem quite as sociopathic as your average cultivation story. It just seems like a fairly normal fantasy setting with authoritarian leaders (though it seems to retain the "cultivators can freely poo poo on non-cultivators" element). Cynic Jester posted:The best part is all the readers complaining about the MC being a typical beta MC with no ambition, when the title translates to The ideal gigolo life. It always amuses me how so many readers apparently demand the typical "overpowered MC with a harem of 20 women" and will get super salty when they're denied that. I think it's because they treat reading these things sorta like jacking off, and if the MC isn't an overpowered demi-god with a giant harem it's perceived as the equivalent of an ugly woman showing up in the porno they're watching. (I feel like this comparison between isekai web novels and porn is actually surprisingly apt) Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 06:21
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Does the protagonist of The Death Mage Doesn’t Want A Fourth Time ever get challenged? I’m at the part where he finally gets a job change, and I don’t think he’s actually struggled to do anything ever since... ever, actually. It took me a while to realize it because he started out from the very bottom and we’re constantly told how lovely his life used to be, but he’s never actually failed to do anything that he’s set out to do and his death-attribute magic and/or isekai knowledge is apparently able to solve every problem in front of him. I think the only time he’s even taken any damage is when he fought against the orc leader but even that was just a clever ploy. Have I been tricked into another boring isekai power trip?
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Mar 28, 2018 15:53
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From what I've read so far which is up to current translations, not really. EDIT: There was one fight where he knew he wouldn't win if he got into, but he ran away before anything could go down EDIT2: He does frequently take damage during his fights, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he really struggles in them. pezzie fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 16:31
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blastron posted:Does the protagonist of The Death Mage Doesn’t Want A Fourth Time ever get challenged? I’m at the part where he finally gets a job change, and I don’t think he’s actually struggled to do anything ever since... ever, actually. It took me a while to realize it because he started out from the very bottom and we’re constantly told how lovely his life used to be, but he’s never actually failed to do anything that he’s set out to do and his death-attribute magic and/or isekai knowledge is apparently able to solve every problem in front of him. I think the only time he’s even taken any damage is when he fought against the orc leader but even that was just a clever ploy. There's a very sharp power escalation in the opponents he faces as the series gets out of the first part. But while he does have some somewhat tougher fights later on, by that point he's even more of a crazy inhuman monster so it doesn't matter as much. Stuff like having his head cut off out of nowhere by a master assassin, but he's okay because he doesn't really need a head by that point. They also eventually mix it up somewhat with trickier opponents with OP superpowers that are closer to the level of weird Jojo stuff than generic DC/Marvel powers or stereotypical isekai cheats. It's not the worst offender in the genre, but it's definitely in the OP protagonist wish fulfillment category, if that's not your thing.
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Mar 28, 2018 16:55
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Ytlaya posted:It always amuses me how so many readers apparently demand the typical "overpowered MC with a harem of 20 women" and will get super salty when they're denied that. I think it's because they treat reading these things sorta like jacking off, and if the MC isn't an overpowered demi-god with a giant harem it's perceived as the equivalent of an ugly woman showing up in the porno they're watching. (I feel like this comparison between isekai web novels and porn is actually surprisingly apt) I'm pretty sure the dude does get his harem in Risou no Himo Seikatsu, so don't worry.
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Mar 28, 2018 17:12
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blastron posted:Does the protagonist of The Death Mage Doesn’t Want A Fourth Time ever get challenged? I’m at the part where he finally gets a job change, and I don’t think he’s actually struggled to do anything ever since... ever, actually. It took me a while to realize it because he started out from the very bottom and we’re constantly told how lovely his life used to be, but he’s never actually failed to do anything that he’s set out to do and his death-attribute magic and/or isekai knowledge is apparently able to solve every problem in front of him. I think the only time he’s even taken any damage is when he fought against the orc leader but even that was just a clever ploy. Same! It's like a reskinned Tsuki ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu. To be honest, I could live with an omnipotent protagonist if it felt like the story was going somewhere, but it just drags. Also, orc rape. Less, please. In future I would prefer to read stories containing less- possibly no- rape. I did not feel like that was I preference I had to state, previously. Perhaps I was mistaken. The living carriage with AN UNQUENCHABLE THIRST FOR BLOOD I like though, that is a fun character.
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Mar 28, 2018 20:20
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The fact that the MC is literally broken in the head and past elder god gibbering and not just emotionally not really present is different. He is so crazy once some gods realize they are like oh wait I do not want to gently caress with you.
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Mar 28, 2018 20:49
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Fallorn posted:The fact that the MC is literally broken in the head and past elder god gibbering and not just emotionally not really present is different. He is so crazy once some gods realize they are like oh wait I do not want to gently caress with you. that's the one thing that kinda keeps my interest yeah i mostly just skim it though, it falls into the dumb pattern of "oh no the MC starts with a huge disadvantage this is different i swear, also they easily overcome the disadvantage 5 seconds in and it becomes generic power trip #231" xianxia pulls that poo poo constantly Yinlock fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 22:16
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Yinlock posted:i mostly just skim it though, it falls into the dumb pattern of "oh no the MC starts with a huge disadvantage this is different i swear, also they easily overcome the disadvantage 5 seconds in and it becomes generic power trip #231" Yeah, this seems common to most power fantasy web novel things, both isekai and cultivation stuff. I'm not sure why they even bother with the pretense, really. I guess it's create the illusion that the protagonist somehow "deserves" their power and isn't as privileged?
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Mar 28, 2018 23:51
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i remember reading a few chapters of this unintentionally hilarious wn, where the mc's horrible life of abuse made it incredibly clear that the author was sheltered and ignorant. like, he died because a debt collector after his father would apparently beat him regularly (????) and eventually deliberately beat him to death so that the dad who didn't mind before would somehow be inspired to pay back the money? so naturally, this incredibly flimsy premise justified him going around murdering people in a fantasy world.
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Mar 29, 2018 00:19
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Asian debt collectors are the reason the MC in Heavenly moonlight sculptor starts that mmo. Its almost a cliche in the WNs.
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Mar 29, 2018 04:48
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Fallorn posted:Asian debt collectors are the reason the MC in Heavenly moonlight sculptor starts that mmo. Its almost a cliche in the WNs. debt collectors try to collect money. they don't go around beating a debtor's unloved children repeatedly, long after it becomes clear it isn't an effective means of coercion. this was also the sole method the debt collector used. it was very clear that the author had only a vague idea of what a debt collector even is, so he went with 'generic bad guy who does bad things for no reason'.
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Mar 29, 2018 04:58
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I decided to give Coiling Dragon a read and the Western names the author picks are hilarious.
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Mar 29, 2018 13:50
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Go on?
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Mar 29, 2018 15:40
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Chinese attempts at European names are hilarious because they try to fit double meanings into the characters chosen to represent the name, just like they do with regular Chinese names. Sometimes it works out nicely, but other times you just laugh because it ends up being a terrible pun.
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Mar 29, 2018 17:15
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Megazver posted:I decided to give Coiling Dragon a read and the Western names the author picks are hilarious. jwang posted:Chinese attempts at European names are hilarious because they try to fit double meanings into the characters chosen to represent the name, just like they do with regular Chinese names. Sometimes it works out nicely, but other times you just laugh because it ends up being a terrible pun. Examples please.
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Mar 29, 2018 17:30
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah, this seems common to most power fantasy web novel things, both isekai and cultivation stuff. I'm not sure why they even bother with the pretense, really. I guess it's create the illusion that the protagonist somehow "deserves" their power and isn't as privileged? the weird thing is that before they get everything immediately handed to them there's sometimes a brief period where they are actually underpowered and things are genuinely interesting this usually lasts maybe 4 chapters though
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Mar 29, 2018 20:10
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Yinlock posted:the weird thing is that before they get everything immediately handed to them there's sometimes a brief period where they are actually underpowered and things are genuinely interesting Yeah, the very, very beginning of these things are sometimes pretty interesting, though I find that you can usually preemptively tell what a story's going to be like from its reviews/description.
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Mar 29, 2018 20:27
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This xianxia stuff sounds wild what's the wildest xianxia
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Mar 30, 2018 02:37
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Yinlock posted:the weird thing is that before they get everything immediately handed to them there's sometimes a brief period where they are actually underpowered and things are genuinely interesting chat group at least has him consistently out of his league i mean its obvious nothing too bad is gonna happen since its a comedy story and the biggest challenges are less beating up enemies and more putting up with the insane rear end in a top hat wizards who are ostensibly on his side
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Mar 30, 2018 03:19
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Yinlock posted:the weird thing is that before they get everything immediately handed to them there's sometimes a brief period where they are actually underpowered and things are genuinely interesting The best is when it's literally a single chapter of "oh woe is me" from the MC - followed by a million chapters of brutal and disproportionate retribution visited on typically unrelated parties. It really undercuts the "justification" when MC not being an OP demigod is <1% of the wordcount.
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Mar 30, 2018 06:39
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i think the funniest example of that i've seen was in invincible, where the mc was reincarnated with full memory and had approximately 800 million different unique advantages over any other person who ever lived, but started his story with a bitter feud against his 5 year old cousin. all of said cousin's immediate family died, and i think the child himself was beheaded before he hit puberty. nothing less would have sufficed, because a small child was rude to another small child. invincible is so dang bad.
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Mar 30, 2018 08:50
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Tunicate posted:chat group at least has him consistently out of his league tbf the wizards ARE genuinely on his side, it's just that they're both extremely enthusiastic and extremely stupid common-sense wise
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Mar 30, 2018 21:54
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i think the funniest example of that i've seen was in invincible, where the mc was reincarnated with full memory and had approximately 800 million different unique advantages over any other person who ever lived, but started his story with a bitter feud against his 5 year old cousin. all of said cousin's immediate family died, and i think the child himself was beheaded before he hit puberty. nothing less would have sufficed, because a small child was rude to another small child. i like how the more petty the MC's grudges are the more obvious it is that they're author stand-ins
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Mar 30, 2018 21:56
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awright, qidian has picked up the long-dead tempest of stellar war translation. here's why it is good (actually bad): -the author thinks esports are the pinnacle of human achievement -since esports are the most exciting thing he can possibly imagine, he writes the fans of such as deranged howling cultists who latch on to the e-thletes as living gods they would die and kill for -it's science fiction written with no particular familiarity with science fiction -the mc is also a brilliant physicist, brilliant in this case meaning some guy who takes credit for poo poo he heard elsewhere and makes broad, unproven assertions -college physics classes are actually broad unproven assertion contests, where the idea of actually testing theories or even running the math never once comes up -the author's level of science education is that he saw some guy wearing a lab coat on tv once, but he's still writing about scientists in a sci fi setting -true ultimate power is achievable by doing jumping squats for 2 years straight it's complete garbage and i love it.
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Mar 31, 2018 00:32
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I just caught up with Pivot of the Skies. It's....actually really good. Xianxia but set in bronze age Mesopotamia and Egypt, with like weird jianghu analogues of Gilgamesh and Aristotle running around. Unlike the standard xianxia, the MC isn't particularly overpowered. He values negotiation and friendship, he's painfully monogamous, and he avoids violence when given the option. Currently on Radiant, but it looks like it's on hiatus for now.
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Mar 31, 2018 01:08
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:-the author thinks esports are the pinnacle of human achievement this sounds amazing
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Mar 31, 2018 02:32
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