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call to action posted:You'd only really need enough drag on the economy to create a permanent recession, then couple that with the retirement and student loan crisis plus wide swaths of people's few remaining nest eggs becoming worthless. Fun times! This calls for renewed public investment to grow the economy faster than climate change eats it up. I'm only half joking.
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Mar 28, 2018 00:54
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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It's been mentioned before that there are better communities or forums for climate change discussion than here. Where can I find them?
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Mar 28, 2018 03:12
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Nocturtle posted:Relatedly I happened to see this opinion piece by a conservative climate-change believer where he criticizes carbon taxes as an inefficient way to reduce emissions due to displaced production. Obviously this criticism can be applied to literally any environmental measure that increases the price of carbon and isn't implemented globally, but it appears to me a relatively honest "conservative" critique of a carbon tax from someone who isn't denying the problem exists altogether. For reference it's not surprising this opinion appeared in the National Post, a failed Canadian conservative newspaper. The author also chaired a conference panel with some of the conservative movement’s most knowledgeable climate policy experts. As far as I can tell their only real conclusion was China replacing coal with LNG plants would be a cheap way to reduce global emissions. Presumably these will be the kinds of arguments against carbon taxes/decarbonizing going forward as denying climate change completely becomes untenable. Sorry to dredge this back up, but any discussion of why one particular method of solving climate change is bad without an inclusion of what the better choice would be is a crock of poo poo. If this was legit he would say "carbon taxes aren't the right way for reasons xyz, Solution 2 is the right way for reasons abc." Leaving out that second part means it's just more kick the can down the road dithering.
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Mar 28, 2018 06:23
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Grouchio posted:It's been mentioned before that there are better communities or forums for climate change discussion than here. Where can I find them? The Artic Sea Ice forums are one I see all the time (though of course with that specific focus in mind).
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Mar 28, 2018 08:25
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Grouchio posted:It's been mentioned before that there are better communities or forums for climate change discussion than here. Where can I find them? oh you didn't get the invite to the Good Forums over on the LightNet?
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Mar 28, 2018 13:43
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StabbinHobo posted:oh you didn't get the invite to the Good Forums over on the LightNet?
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Mar 28, 2018 15:56
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StabbinHobo posted:oh you didn't get the invite to the Good Forums over on the LightNet? Google fails me ... link?
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Mar 28, 2018 16:25
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Saudi Arabia and SoftBank Group Corp. signed a memorandum of understanding to build a $200 billion solar power development that’s exponentially larger than any other project. ... At 200 gigawatts, the Softbank project planned for the Saudi desert would be about 100 times larger than the next biggest proposed development and a third more than what the global photovoltaic industry supplied worldwide last year, according to data compiled by Bloomberg New Energy Finance. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-28/saudi-arabia-softbank-ink-deal-on-200-billion-solar-project Some perspective, the SONGS plant (nuke) was about 2.25GW before they broke it.
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Mar 28, 2018 16:28
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StabbinHobo forgot the sarcasm tags. Any public forum/comment section is overrun by deniers unless it has strict moderation where the mods are knowledgeable about climate change and won't put up with that poo poo.
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Mar 28, 2018 19:13
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I was just wondering where all the optimists/not-so-cynicals gather to give realist consolations that it isn't game over yet.
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Mar 28, 2018 19:19
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Grouchio posted:I was just wondering where all the optimists/not-so-cynicals gather to give realist consolations that it isn't game over yet. https://forum.therightstuff.biz
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Mar 28, 2018 19:26
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Grouchio posted:I was just wondering where all the optimists/not-so-cynicals gather to give realist consolations that it isn't game over yet. So are you looking for optimism or realism?
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Mar 28, 2018 21:15
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Hey, look at the glass half full - out of the over 1.5 million years of human existence on this Earth, our children will get to watch the end! Isn't that exciting!
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Mar 28, 2018 21:20
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call to action posted:So are you looking for optimism or realism?
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Mar 28, 2018 22:07
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Mozi posted:Hey, look at the glass half full - out of the over 1.5 million years of human existence on this Earth, our children will get to watch the end! Isn't that exciting! My niece turned two last week. I hope that she will have the means to adapt to or escape the coming horrors.
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Mar 28, 2018 22:32
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Here's an interesting article about what exactly is required to limit global temperature increase to 1.5C or below. As we all know, this is the SSP1 = development under a green-growth paradigm SSP2 = a middle-of-the-road development along historical patterns SSP3 = a regionally heterogeneous development SSP4 = a development that results in both geographical and social inequalities SSP5 = a development path that is dominated by high energy demand supplied by extensive fossil-fuel use In each of these scenarios, the analyzers try to determine the magnitude of emissions reductions, bio-energy + carbon capture + storage, carbon prices etc that are consistent with 1.9W/m^2 radiative forcing by 2100 (which makes it possible but not necessarily results in warming below 1.5C). The study has some limitations (doesn't model feedback processes like the ongoing permafrost thawing :P) and it's not clear from this paper alone the precise differences between different SSPs. However it shows the scale of effort required to actually meet the 1.5C target ie what must be done. Some key points: -"Across all 13 available scenarios, net zero GHG emissions are reached around 2055–2075 (rounded to the nearest 5 years)." -"All 1.9 Wm−2 scenarios in this study strongly limit energy demand growth, with energy intensity reduction rates of 2–4%yr−1 from 2020 to 2050" -"Under all SSPs, 1.9Wm−2 scenarios show a clear shift away from unabated fossil fuels (that is, without CCS, Fig. 2c), and a phaseout of all fossil fuels." -a frankly ludicrous amount of negative emissions are required via BECCS, especially under the fossil-fuel intensive SSP5 option -coal use has to stop almost instantly -international carbon prices of at least $20/tCO2 (oftern much more) Overall probably nothing surprising for people reading this thread but still a useful breakdown.
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Mar 28, 2018 23:06
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SoftBank partnering with the Saudis to build 200GW Solar Plant Saudi Arabia and SoftBank Plan World's Largest Solar Project - Venture may cost $200 billion, add 100,000 jobs in the kingdom - Plan envisions 200GW of solar capacity in Saudi Arabia by 2030 Saudi Arabia and SoftBank Group Corp. signed a memorandum of understanding to build a $200 billion solar power development that’s exponentially larger than any other project. SoftBank founder Masayoshi Son, known for backing ambitious endeavors with flair, unveiled the project Tuesday in New York at a ceremony with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman. The powerful heir to the throne of the world’s largest crude exporter is seeking to diversify the economy and wean off a dependence on oil. The deal is the latest in a number of eye-popping announcements from Saudi Arabia promising to scale up its access to renewables. While the kingdom has for years sought to get a foothold in clean energy, it’s was only in 2017 that ministers moved forward with the first projects, collecting bids for a 300-megawatt plant in October. At 200 gigawatts, the Softbank project planned for the Saudi desert would be about 100 times larger than the next biggest proposed development and a third more than what the global photovoltaic industry supplied worldwide last year, according to data compiled by Bloomberg New Energy Finance.
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Mar 29, 2018 00:55
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One hell of a way to jump start domestic heavy industry Good on them
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Mar 29, 2018 02:38
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VideoGameVet posted:SoftBank partnering with the Saudis to build 200GW Solar Plant... Saudi Arabia's average temperature is projected to rise ~4C over the next 40 years. It looks like this moves the average summer temperaturep into (even more) lethal territory. Presumably a good chunk of this 200GW will be directed towards additional air conditioning. Grouchio posted:It's been mentioned before that there are better communities or forums for climate change discussion than here. Where can I find them? While I think there can be good discussions on this dying forum (primarily due to the paywall and moderation), this topic is clearly not very active compared to the daily political theater threads. Despite being a tech blog I find Ars Technica provides regular and well-written coverage of climate change topics, especially pieces by John Timmer. However it's very much in the "maybe technology will save us" camp. hooman posted:If this was legit he would say "carbon taxes aren't the right way for reasons xyz, Solution 2 is the right way for reasons abc." Leaving out that second part means it's just more kick the can down the road dithering. I think it's pretty lame too, as even if every coal plant in the world was magically transfigured into a natural gas plant we'd still have a major crisis. It's good to be aware of conservative talking points, especially as their public stance springs from denialism to embracing geoengineering: Wired posted:WHY CLIMATE CHANGE SKEPTICS ARE BACKING GEOENGINEERING This isn't to say denialism is dead.
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Mar 29, 2018 03:16
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StabbinHobo posted:oh you didn't get the invite to the Good Forums over on the LightNet? Grouchio posted:Nope. First I've heard of it VideoGameVet posted:Google fails me ... link? this made my day ty
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Mar 29, 2018 03:18
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Nocturtle posted:Saudi Arabia's average temperature is projected to rise ~4C over the next 40 years. It looks like this moves the average summer temperaturep into (even more) lethal territory. Presumably a good chunk of this 200GW will be directed towards additional air conditioning. This would actually be quite smart since air conditioning and hot sunny days are correlated, reducing the amount of storage you'd want for your humongous solar farm.
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Mar 29, 2018 08:06
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suck my woke dick posted:This would actually be quite smart since air conditioning and hot sunny days are correlated, reducing the amount of storage you'd want for your humongous solar farm.
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Mar 29, 2018 10:08
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coal plants are closing at an alarming rate http://www.theenergycollective.com/energy-innovation-llc/2418633/utilities-closed-nearly-30-coal-plants-2017-economics-6-important
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Mar 29, 2018 13:57
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A Buttery Pastry posted:They should just start building underground, to take advantage of the fact that ambient temperatures down there are much less variable, being nearly constant around the average yearly temperature two floors down. It'd be pretty compatible with traditional Middle Eastern architecture too, which for obvious reasons was and is less welcoming to the sun than modern steel and glass architecture. Looking forward to the King of the House of Saud being the sole ruler of mankind once the underground mole-person civilization becomes the last remnant of humanity
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Mar 29, 2018 14:00
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frankee posted:coal plants are closing at an alarming rate Loving how this is happening when it's far too late.
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Mar 29, 2018 15:41
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It’s never too late to stop burning coal. The thing to be annoyed/concerned about is how many of them are being replaced by natural gas plants with service lives well, well beyond the point where we shouldn’t be emitting at all.
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Mar 29, 2018 15:42
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I was playing rear end Creed, the Egyptian one, the other day. I started reflecting on the fact that Ptolemy's egypt came literally thousand(s) of years after the demise of the people who originally built the Pyramids, and there were still people holding on to their old traditions and all that in the face of Hellenistic intrusion. People living in ruins of tombs for Pharaohs permanently lost to time and poo poo. And here we are, with 80-ish years of BAU being about the limit for organized human civilization. Just lol
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Mar 29, 2018 17:28
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Paradoxish posted:It’s never too late to stop burning coal. The thing to be annoyed/concerned about is how many of them are being replaced by natural gas plants with service lives well, well beyond the point where we shouldn’t be emitting at all. Eh, we'll need test targets for the prompt global strike systems of the middle of this century
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Mar 29, 2018 17:46
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call to action posted:And here we are, with 80-ish years of BAU being about the limit for organized human civilization. Cite sources or gently caress off, please. e: VVV You, too. Hello Sailor fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Mar 30, 2018 |
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Mar 30, 2018 05:42
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Yea really, 80 years of business as usual is crazy generous.
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Mar 30, 2018 09:47
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What's going on with that climate change lawsuit in the US put forward by those children? Would them winning actually lead to any meaningful change, or is this just for show and visibility?
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Mar 30, 2018 10:31
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Hello Sailor posted:Cite sources or gently caress off, please. Are you retarded and/or don't know what RCP8.5 is? Because that's the emissions path we're on, without any of the (B)CCS assumed by that plan. That path is incompatible with organized civilization as we know it today (democracy, etc.) by 2100. http://www.eco-business.com/news/climate-change-will-force-mass-migration-of-1-billion-by-2100/ Here's just one example of a development bank that thinks there will be 1 billion climate refugees by 2100. Perhaps you can explain how that's going to work, absent the rise of hardcore fascism? People think I'm saying it will be impossible to live in 2100. It won't. It just won't be a time you want to live in. call to action fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Mar 30, 2018 |
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Mar 30, 2018 16:20
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call to action posted:Here's just one example of a development bank that thinks there will be 1 billion climate refugees by 2100. Perhaps you can explain how that's going to work, absent the rise of hardcore fascism? well they'll all get shot at the border but the guards will feel really sorry for them?
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Mar 30, 2018 16:22
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froglet posted:What's going on with that climate change lawsuit in the US put forward by those children? Would them winning actually lead to any meaningful change, or is this just for show and visibility? Them winning would set a precedent for bankrupting a huge number of fortune 500 companies so, eeeeeh...
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Mar 30, 2018 16:30
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200 GW is a lot of average for solar. 
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Mar 30, 2018 16:40
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Hey so there's this pretty mediocre/lovely newspaper and every time it has an article about climate change in any context, the comment sections is ALWAYS filled with deniers and the most common thing I see there is that "Oh actually we are entering a miniature ice age, why isn't anyone covering that topic, huh?????" Why would anyone claim that?
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Mar 30, 2018 19:48
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Gortarius posted:Hey so there's this pretty mediocre/lovely newspaper and every time it has an article about climate change in any context, the comment sections is ALWAYS filled with deniers and the most common thing I see there is that "Oh actually we are entering a miniature ice age, why isn't anyone covering that topic, huh?????" Since my father is one of them, because Europe is having a harsh winter.
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Mar 30, 2018 20:04
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Blow his mind and tell him we're already in an ice age.
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Mar 30, 2018 20:17
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Their embrace of something hinges on working backwards from the bottom, where in this instance, the item is global cooling.
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Mar 30, 2018 20:37
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- Destabilization of the polar vortex combined with confirmation bias.
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Mar 30, 2018 22:27
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