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VanSandman posted:I need to read the Lord of the Rings again. And the Silmarillion. And Beren and Luthien, which is my favorite. Read the Hobbit first which is his best work.
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Mar 26, 2018 04:23
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Roverandom or GTFO
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Mar 27, 2018 14:11
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None has ever caught him yet for Tom, he is the Master: his book's the best of books, and his tale is shorter!
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Mar 28, 2018 02:06
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Let's say, I dunno, the translation of the Book of Jonah.
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Mar 28, 2018 03:12
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Start at kullervo and go chronological
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Mar 28, 2018 03:16
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You could say there's enough named swords in the legendarium for them to count as a race on their own, but really, who needs them?HELM HAMMERHAND posted:"You talk of a staff! If Helm dislikes a crooked staff that is thrust on him, he breaks it. So!" With that he smote Freca such a blow with his fist that he fell back stunned, and died soon after. FINROD FELAGUND posted:In the pits of Sauron Beren and Felagund lay, and all their companions were now dead; but Sauron proposed to keep Felagund to the last, for he perceived that he was a Noldo of great might and wisdom, and he deemed that in him lay the secret of their errand. But when the wolf came for Beren, Felagund put forth all his power, and burst his bonds; and he wrestled with the werewolf, and slew it with his hands and teeth; yet he himself was wounded to the death.
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Mar 30, 2018 04:54
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You left out the best one, Turin’s loving pro wrestling style murder of Brodda
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Mar 30, 2018 14:22
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skasion posted:You left out the best one, Turin’s loving pro wrestling style murder of Brodda I did, and that was a travesty. TURIN TURAMBAR posted:'Not first will I die here!' he cried. And he seized Brodda, and with the strength of his great anguish and wrath he lifted him on high and shook him, as if he were a dog. 'Morwen of the thrall-folk, did you say? get 'im outta there
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Mar 30, 2018 19:48
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Mar 31, 2018 23:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHoJSgq6mqc They're taking the home-boys to laser-tag Cable Guy fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Mar 31, 2018 |
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Mar 31, 2018 23:56
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Five people have tagged me in that image on Facebook today so I guess I’m living my life right
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Mar 31, 2018 23:58
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Thank you for pointing me here
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Apr 1, 2018 00:12
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Legit I'm a giant Tolkien nerd and had like 2nd most posts in the last A/T about Tolkien thread a few years ago.
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Apr 1, 2018 00:13
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I hate that it says poor screenwriting. Peter Jackson didn't write the story, John Ronald Reuel Raymond Richard Tolkien did
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Apr 1, 2018 05:08
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Maybe it's criticizing the movie for making it seem more like a plot hole than the book does
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Apr 1, 2018 05:38
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Wow I always forget between rereads how Bree-land and The Shire are just rural England.
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Apr 10, 2018 14:36
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sunday at work posted:Wow I always forget between rereads how Bree-land and The Shire are just rural England. spoiler: Rohan is Anglo-Saxon England also Gondor is Roman England It would be a funny fan-fiction type challenge to write a Jane Austen style novel set entirely in the Shire. Or rather a Trollope novel since the Shire is more 18th/19th century Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 14:48
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:spoiler: Rohan is Anglo-Saxon England also Gondor is Roman England Does this mean that Mordor (or maybe Isengard) is industrial revolution England? 
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Apr 10, 2018 14:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:spoiler: Rohan is Anglo-Saxon England also Gondor is Roman England I'll give you the former although Tolkien wouldn't. Appendix...F? (the one where he explains his translation conventions and ends with the exceedingly dry joke about Bralda-gamba) has a bit about how we shouldn't assume that the use of Anglo-Saxon language to represent the relationship of Rohirric language to the demotic Aduni of the hobbits, means that Rohirric people were in any especial way similar to Anglo-Saxon people. You could make a case that he's protesting a bit too much about this. But the latter, no way. Insofar as we can map Middle-earth onto historical Europe (always a shaky endeavor) Arnor is Roman Britain, right down to the fragmentation into squabbling petty kingdoms and then into anarchy. Gondor is more like the Mediterranean world proper. Tolkien likened it to Egypt and Byzantium. In this regard I think a significantly more apt comparison for the Rohirrim would be the Gothic peoples who were settled in the late Western Roman Empire as rulers over parts of imperial territory in exchange for the expectation of military service. Like say, the Visigothic kingdom, but unlike the Anglo-Saxons of sub-Roman Britain, the Riddermark is a militarized state formed by a horse culture at the invitation of a failing empire which needed the military force it could provide more so than it needed the territory it settled them on. In "Cirion and Eorl" Tolkien actually makes the parallel quite explicit by using Gothic language to represent the names of the pre-Rohirric Eotheod. e: Also if you want to take this a bit further, it means that when Elessar's descendants inevitably flop and lose the kingship, we'll probably get a big ole Sindarinized Rohirric state or two stretching down into Anorien. skasion fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 15:09
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skasion posted:
ok yes this is fair and technically correct which is the best kind of correct -- Arnor is Roman Britain, and Gondor is Byzantium. On the other hand: quote:The action of the story takes place in the North-west of 'Middle-earth', equivalent in latitude to the coastlands of Europe and the north shores of the Mediterranean. ... If Hobbiton and Rivendell are taken (as intended) to be at about the latitude of Oxford, then Minas Tirith, 600 miles south, is at about the latitude of Florence. (Letters, pg. 294). Basically Minas Tirith is, roughly speaking, on top of Rome. quote:In this regard I think a significantly more apt comparison for the Rohirrim would be the Gothic peoples who were settled in the late Western Roman Empire as rulers over parts of imperial territory in exchange for the expectation of military service. Like say, the Visigothic kingdom, but unlike the Anglo-Saxons of sub-Roman Britain, the Riddermark is a militarized state formed by a horse culture at the invitation of a failing empire which needed the military force it could provide more so than it needed the territory it settled them on. In "Cirion and Eorl" Tolkien actually makes the parallel quite explicit by using Gothic language to represent the names of the pre-Rohirric Eotheod. I'd go a slightly different direction here. If we view Middle-Earth as Tolkien's attempt at a "pre-norman" mythology for England, then one of the most interesting absences is the lack of a direct reference of any kind to Arthur. Of course there's the notion of the absent King who will one day Return, but that's as much a Christian legend as an Arthurian one. One of the central linchpins of the Arthur story (at least, speaking in terms of the Arthur Legend, not "historical arthur") is the idea of mounted knights; conversely, though, the post-roman Britons were not, apart from a few very specific examples (the White Horse of Uffington, for example, which is a "white horse on a field of green," just like the Banner of Rohan), known at all for their use of cavalry. (see https://dutchanglosaxonist.com/2017/06/05/horses/ ) So on some level, I think Rohan was Tolkien, as an Anglo-Saxon academic, recasting and remixing the Arthur story a bit, as "what would it actually look like, if post-Roman britain had extensive cavalry?" Of course that mixes a Celtic/Bretonnic legend with an Anglo-Saxon one, but that particular division is one Tolkien routinely elided over -- his focus was always on 1066 as the year British history Turned Wrong, not 927.
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Apr 10, 2018 15:28
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Tolkien despised allegory but it's impossible not to be inspired by your circumstances so I'm sure there's a bit of his upbringing/background in what the Shire is like, Mordor, etc. In particular Tolkien was weary of industry and its destruction of the rural countryside that he loved.
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Apr 10, 2018 16:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'd go a slightly different direction here. If we view Middle-Earth as Tolkien's attempt at a "pre-norman" mythology for England, then one of the most interesting absences is the lack of a direct reference of any kind to Arthur. Of course there's the notion of the absent King who will one day Return, but that's as much a Christian legend as an Arthurian one. One of the central linchpins of the Arthur story (at least, speaking in terms of the Arthur Legend, not "historical arthur") is the idea of mounted knights; conversely, though, the post-roman Britons were not, apart from a few very specific examples (the White Horse of Uffington, for example, which is a "white horse on a field of green," just like the Banner of Rohan), known at all for their use of cavalry. (see https://dutchanglosaxonist.com/2017/06/05/horses/ ) This is an interesting read on it. I guess I try not to associate Middle-earth stuff with Arthur because I'm sick of fantasy books derailing into Arthur, not to mention invariably disappointing True Story of Arthur type fantasies like Bernard Cornwell's stuff. In other news, Chris Tolkien's note on how he expects Beren & Luthien to be his last work notwithstanding, he is coming out with an Alan Lee illustrated edition of The Fall of Gondolin this summer! I'm really excited for this honestly. There better be painting of ROG OF THE HAMMER.
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Apr 10, 2018 16:31
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Ashcans posted:Does this mean that Mordor (or maybe Isengard) is industrial revolution England? Along with the Shire about 12 hours before the Scouring, sure. In addition, the Dagorlad is the Somme when it's dry, and the Dead Marshes are the Somme when it's wet.
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Apr 10, 2018 20:38
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1422943/J-R-R-Tolkiens-grandson-cut-off-from-literary-inheritance.html I just found out about this. It's over a decade old and they since reconciled but ho-lee crap.
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Apr 11, 2018 23:00
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That's incredibly sad but I'm glad they've since reconciled.
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Apr 12, 2018 00:48
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Everything I hear about Christopher Tolkien personally makes me feel kinda "ehhhn" about him as manager of the estate.
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Apr 12, 2018 01:44
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Nodosaur posted:Everything I hear about Christopher Tolkien personally makes me feel kinda "ehhhn" about him as manager of the estate. I would go see a movie about him, all spending his life trapped in his dad's fantasy world. Sort of a Heavenly Creatures thing.
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Apr 12, 2018 01:56
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Chris comes across as really uptight and curmudgeonly in most of his writing — way more so than his dad actually, who for all his imposing reputation had the kind of whimsical aspect to his character that, well, leads you to spend fifty years on and off making up stories about gnomes and goblins. The kind of character that will spend fifty more years collating said stories is a quite different sort, and on a certain level less likable one. The only thing Chris writes that makes me like him much is the occasional anecdote in HoME about how he responded to some text or other as a kid. There is something kind of fascinating about how his relationship to these texts has taken over his entire adult life. An estate worth as much as JRRT’s would drive many men mildly insane, so as a reader I’m frankly grateful that in Chris’ case the insanity is mild and devoted to obsessive arrangement and presentation of the pre-existing material and not writing Lord of the Rings 2-∞, even if such may happen anyway now that he has been edging towards retirement.
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Apr 12, 2018 02:18
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I wanna hear the story Corey Olsen alluded to about JRRT chasing a neighbor down the street while dressed in full Viking cosplay
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Apr 12, 2018 02:31
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Data Graham posted:I wanna hear the story Corey Olsen alluded to about JRRT chasing a neighbor down the street while dressed in full Viking cosplay That’s from Carpenter’s biography, as is the story of JRRT and Lewis crashing a (non-costume) party dressed as polar bears. Sadly I don’t think there’s fuller detail to be had on either
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Apr 12, 2018 02:36
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skasion posted:Chris comes across as really uptight and curmudgeonly in most of his writing — way more so than his dad actually, who for all his imposing reputation had the kind of whimsical aspect to his character that, well, leads you to spend fifty years on and off making up stories about gnomes and goblins. The kind of character that will spend fifty more years collating said stories is a quite different sort, and on a certain level less likable one. The only thing Chris writes that makes me like him much is the occasional anecdote in HoME about how he responded to some text or other as a kid. There is something kind of fascinating about how his relationship to these texts has taken over his entire adult life. An estate worth as much as JRRT’s would drive many men mildly insane, so as a reader I’m frankly grateful that in Chris’ case the insanity is mild and devoted to obsessive arrangement and presentation of the pre-existing material and not writing Lord of the Rings 2-∞, even if such may happen anyway now that he has been edging towards retirement. I am shuddering at the thought of Chris turning out like Frank Herbert's descendents
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Apr 12, 2018 03:46
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I think Christopher Tolkien is pretty much the best custodian for JRRT’s works anyone could have hoped for. Not only did he have the dedication to compile and publish an enormous amount of his Father’s material, he seems to have a strict devotion to his father’s vision. If people ever take the legendarium seriously in spite of it being a bunch of elf stories, aside from the obvious quality of the stories themselves, it’s because of Christopher Tolkien. That said, I don’t think he comes across as particularly likable either.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:24
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I dunno man, disowning your son because he supported a critically acclaimed movie trilogy makes me question his priorities. Like if it were over the fact that the deal with New Line was pretty one sided and that the estate wasn’t receiving enough benefit from it, it’d be one thing, but everything I’ve read indicates it was over Simon supporting Jackson’s vision of the film, not the financial side of things.
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Apr 12, 2018 15:51
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Heithinn Grasida posted:I think Christopher Tolkien is pretty much the best custodian for JRRT’s works anyone could have hoped for. Not only did he have the dedication to compile and publish an enormous amount of his Father’s material, he seems to have a strict devotion to his father’s vision. If people ever take the legendarium seriously in spite of it being a bunch of elf stories, aside from the obvious quality of the stories themselves, it’s because of Christopher Tolkien. That said, I don’t think he comes across as particularly likable either. Yeah agreed. And while I don't hate the movies (though the Hobbit trilogy was terrible) they were not very faithful to what the books are like so I totally get why (financials aside) Christopher Tolkien hates them as someone who is so religiously devoted to his father's vision. JRRT would have hated the movies too. That said disowning your son over something like that is cruel and stupid. Some books about elves and poo poo aren't more important than family so I'm glad they reconciled. To understand Christopher Tolkien you basically have to understand this his whole life is curating his father's work. So any alternative piece of media that doesn't adhere to what he believes JRRT's vision was is going to be treated harshly.
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Apr 12, 2018 16:12
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I mean I kinda understand, my parents divorced over the nature of Istari, but I’ve maintained close friendships with people who actually LIKED the Hobbit movies. It’s not like they voted for Trump.
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Apr 12, 2018 16:32
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One suspects that Chris Tolkien has no idea what a video game is or what they've done to his fathers lifes work.
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Apr 12, 2018 16:40
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My 11 year old told me the other night he liked the Eragon series more than LOTR. I told him to get out of my house. Some things are just inexcusable. But he's a dumbass 11 year old I'm sure as he matures he'll come around.
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Apr 12, 2018 16:41
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Had to check and make sure I haven’t already talked about Gandalf breaking up my parents before I  My dad has pretty nasty bipolar disorder with psychotic elements in his manic phases, and tends to fixate on religious and conspiracy weirdness. He spent a while doing e-battle with “satanists” online and getting cursed and drinking heavily about it. He also frickin loves sci-fi and fantasy, and insisted on reading us The Hobbit and LotR, which he loves for their elements of doing battle against evil and saving the world with divine assistance. My mom has severe depression and anxiety and a bad case of the gullibles, and she jumped right into my dad’s weird obsession with demons and curses and witches and poo poo. Us kids all had horrific night terrors made worse by the conviction that we were literally being assaulted by demons at night. Demons could enter the house and the body through all kinds of things: symbols and pictures in catalogs, gibberish play words that accidentally stumbled upon invocations, accidental inversion of crosses etc. The popularity of Harry Potter was an epidemic of demon possession. I was exorcised for my demonized habit of talking back. Anyway, Gandalf was a major point of contention as my mom overheard LotR being read. She was already very concerned about all the witch curses and poo poo that my dad’s online enemies were casting on us, and her depression must have seemed plausibly demon-driven to her. My dad’s increasingly frequent rage-outbursts weren’t exactly reassuring. She confronted him about his sin in bringing these wizard books, with their attending satanic hordes, into the house. No no no, says he, Gandalf is actually an angel. His powers are all from God. He’s clearly a wizard, says she. Look at his hat. He’s in disguise! All the wizards are just angels sent by God. WIZARDS ARE SATANISTS. Are you telling me that the god of LotR is Satan?! The fight simmered and raged for weeks. Mom found a picture of a Balrog and lost her goddamn mind; Pop found an essay on a forum about Istari and the Kabbalah. Mom called her old pastor, who agreed with her; Pop asked a local pastor to back him up vs his rebellious, defiant wife. Finally Mom realized that her husband, far from the biblical leader that she was meant to submit to, was blatantly trafficking with devils and exposing her children to possession. She packed us up and moved back in with her mom. She’s since accepted that her marriage was doomed for reasons far beyond witchcraft, although she’s really upset that I choose to have Harry Potter books in my house. She eventually let us watch the LotR movies with our youth group, and we stopped having to hide our fantasy novels, even the Dragonlance ones, as long as they weren’t blatantly occult-looking. But she’s still sore about Gandalf.
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Apr 12, 2018 16:59
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Well, that explains a lot.
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Apr 12, 2018 17:03
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When a book enters the public consciousness there’s gonna be variations. There’s going to be reinterpretation. There’s going to be different visions and a whole lot of crap. That’s how, for better or worse, stories grow and evolve into new stories. I admire Christopher Tolkien’s adherence to his father’s vision as far as it gets those works that came out after his death insofar as they allow those works to be realized as he would have published them, but these aren’t sacred texts. They deserve the same capacity for reimagination as anything else.
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Apr 12, 2018 17:13
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