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So why/how do we know Cypher is not the Lion?
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Mar 28, 2018 04:55
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GWs no good at telling stories with neat hooks anymore so they basically said so
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Mar 28, 2018 05:13
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S.J. posted:GWs no good at telling stories with neat hooks anymore so they basically said so Ok, but where?
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Mar 28, 2018 05:26
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Finished painting my Armigers - Transfers this weekend. Zuul the Cat posted:Two choppy bois
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Mar 28, 2018 05:32
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Schadenboner posted:Ok, but where? IIRC the Heresy novels. Cypher is a title for someone, not even a real name I think? It's been a while since I've read any of those though.
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Mar 28, 2018 05:44
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S.J. posted:IIRC the Heresy novels. Cypher is a title for someone, not even a real name I think? It's been a while since I've read any of those though. It's this. They're basically the secretary of the legion I suppose and I don't think it's ever been thought that Cypher is the Lion.
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Mar 28, 2018 06:53
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Big Willy Style posted:It's this. They're basically the secretary of the legion I suppose and I don't think it's ever been thought that Cypher is the Lion. Isn't the current theory that it's Zahariel from the HH series?
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Mar 28, 2018 06:56
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Not sure, it became unmanageable to keep up with the HH books with all the special limited edition releases and me not wanting to buy the big versions of the books before the smaller paperbacks were available.
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Mar 28, 2018 06:58
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The idea that Cypher was either the Lion or Luthor is from a while ago, 3rd/4th edition (maybe even second I dunno), something that was hinted at as a possibility among others. But either the Heresy books killed that idea, or one of the Dark Angels codexes that came out before it.
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Mar 28, 2018 07:01
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I got into 40k at the start of third ed and there were always rumours that he could be Luther and the Lion but nothing in the fluff that hints at him being the Lion. Plus he has always been marine sized and I don't think he existed in the fluff before 3rd and an actual model existed for him?
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Mar 28, 2018 07:21
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AnEdgelord posted:Somehow it makes the Lion seem like an incredible loser to have him betray the imperium but also receive zero material benefit for doing so, unlike the other traitor primarchs. It would be very fitting for him then.
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Mar 28, 2018 07:29
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Cypher can't be Luthor because Luthor is in a cell somewhere deep within the rock being forced to listen to Brittany Spears on loop for ten thousand years.
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Mar 28, 2018 08:00
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Pendent posted:I'm actually pretty curious about what you mean by this. As far as I know they've always been at least nominally chaos followers in the fluff, albeit with their own motives and agenda. I'm not aware of anything to contradict this but I'd be interested to hear if I'm wrong. You're right that they were nominally chaos followers with their own agenda, but they are traitors for many editions. Then there was the big reveal. So it's not a stretch they'll do the same with the Dark Angels. I actually like having this option since it gives them a ton of depth. Most of the traitors have a matching loyalist legion and I wouldn't be surprised if this is the one for the alphas. goodness posted:Is this with a custom set of rules? Tactical Strike is the 30k version of kill team, basically. It's been around for years in the black books, but FW doesn't really support it. I compiled all the rules together with some goons and did a minor balance pass. It's really fun.
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Mar 28, 2018 08:09
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Luthor was in a cell until Magnus invaded Fenris and daemons hosed up The Rock. The past few Dark Angels codexes have unambiguously said "THE LION IS ON THE ROCK AND IS ASLEEP AND WAITING TO AWAKEN JUST IN TIME FOR SOME BIG EVENTS". So, you know, that kinda puts a wrench in the "Cypher is Luthor/Lionel" theory.
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Mar 28, 2018 08:29
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panascope posted:who wants to drink Busch Light with me at LVO? fuckers don't allow outside drinks into the venue
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Mar 28, 2018 09:14
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Luther and the Lion have canonically been in the back of the fridge on the Rock since Angels of Death. Also, Luther, who has canonically always been the traitor, was again confirmed for heresy in the latest codex. And further more... Zuul the Cat posted:Finished painting my Armigers - Transfers this weekend. Very cool.
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Mar 28, 2018 09:56
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So I haven't actually made a list in years, and I haven't made a Marine list in probably two decades. Is this more-or-less what a DA force should look like? Is 10 Plasma Cannon and 3 twin LCs enough?  code:Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 09:58
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Nah it should just be six planes and a Darkshroud to make them even more loving annoying to hit.
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Mar 28, 2018 10:04
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Corrode posted:Nah it should just be six planes and a Darkshroud to make them even more loving annoying to hit. It seems like that wouldn't be much fun for the opponent though and if I don't give good game people won't want to play me?
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Mar 28, 2018 10:47
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He's being deeply sarcastic. and list wise you've already made the one change i would have suggested with the Lt.
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Mar 28, 2018 10:50
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Artum posted:He's being deeply sarcastic. Oh, I thought it might be a tournament-player/loving-casual thing, I know the objectives of those two groups can be at variance sometimes.  The fact that the storm bolter gunner would get his head blown the gently caress off on a Razorback is bugging me. Has anyone ever seen one get hull-mounted (like you see on Chimeras and Russes)?
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Mar 28, 2018 11:05
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Hustlin Floh posted:Luthor was in a cell until Magnus invaded Fenris and daemons hosed up The Rock. The past few Dark Angels codexes have unambiguously said "THE LION IS ON THE ROCK AND IS ASLEEP AND WAITING TO AWAKEN JUST IN TIME FOR SOME BIG EVENTS". So, you know, that kinda puts a wrench in the "Cypher is Luthor/Lionel" theory. So they lost their only Rock? They really are the worst Orks.
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Mar 28, 2018 11:06
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Schadenboner posted:Oh, I thought it might be a tournament-player/loving-casual thing, I know the objectives of those two groups can be at variance sometimes. Yeah I was joking. I'm really bored of negative hit stacking as a thing. All but one of my Rhino chassis has the little pintle mount for the storm bolter with no gunner (except one I think). I don't think that's unusual, just assume the Machine Spirit is firing it or something.
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Mar 28, 2018 11:10
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Corrode posted:Yeah I was joking. I'm really bored of negative hit stacking as a thing. Oh, it's like remote? I mean, the regular Razorback turret is remote (although back in 2E it was a manned turret, when did that change?) so it makes sense. You Astares bois get all the fun toys... E: Looking at it, it's pretty clearly remote-controlled. I was thinking of the Guard ones. 
Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 11:14
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Speaking of the fallen and the lore, it seems like every time the fallen are in trouble it's alpha legion bailing them out in my brief reading . Is that a thing in the lore that points to maybe the fallen and alpha legion are actually loyalists, or is it just a coincidence of what I was reading today.
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Mar 28, 2018 14:14
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Schadenboner posted:So I haven't actually made a list in years, and I haven't made a Marine list in probably two decades. Is this more-or-less what a DA force should look like? I'd like to see one more group of Master/LT to help give your Razorbacks and Plasma Cannons full support, currently it'd be hard to get them all within that 6" bubble. You could give up the Vet squads and Scout heavy Bolters to do it. I'd also consider upgrading one Razorback to a Predator to unlock a Spearhead detachment and get an additional CP but I'm not sure where those 10/20 pts would come from.
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Mar 28, 2018 14:20
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Booley posted:Uroboros how do you like those tablescapes tiles? I'm thinking of getting a set after playing on Hixson's FW tiles this weekend I like them a lot as a basis for my display. With 6 tiles I can basically make my display board suit whatever size I want. My current issue is the whole thing just looks flat. So now I need to come up with ideas for decorating, but also having it remain useful when I want to break it into smaller sections. Corrode posted:Uroboros, great write-up. Makes me want to get to Adepticon sometime although I imagine that a transatlantic trip for 40k would stretch my wife's patience past breaking point. That is 100% understandable. I think it will hard enough for me to sell a trip to NOVA next year, let alone a visit to another country. PantsOptional posted:Seems like it might be a little difficult to get through Adepticon without getting at least a little tipsy. 99% of people at Adepticon have alcohol in their system at all times. Pendent posted:I've been weirdly tempted to pick up another Dark Imperium box recently and start painting some Ultramarines and looking at the pictures of your stuff I'm pretty sure it's mostly your fault. It's always a joy to see you post your models, although I'm certainly sorry to see you grow increasingly disillusioned with 8th. Thanks for the compliments. Yeah, the issues with 8th are rather annoying, but it is offset by GWs renewed vigor in community relations and crazy release schedule. 8th is fixable, but so is 7th, but sadly some of the things I take issue with are unlikely to go away or be addressed anytime soon.
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Mar 28, 2018 14:23
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Also, for those who wish to view all the pictures I took I made the albums public in my IMGUR profile. https://thearmorofcontempt.imgur.com/all/
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Mar 28, 2018 14:27
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For Fallen/Cypher/Current Dark Angel situation, you wouldn't be too amiss checking out the Legacy of Caliban series by Gav Thorpe. The third book in particular heavily features Cypher, and reveals some fairly interesting things. For instance, that he has let himself be captured by the DA no less than 8 times previously in order to save the entirety of the chapter from some looming threat. And that he doesn't escape once the threat passes, each time the current chapter master has simply let him go. You also get a good chunk of face time with Luther, who spouts off incessant heresies constantly as some sort of chaotically insane prophet from whom the chapter master tries to divine various threats. At this point in the canon the Fallen are very separated, and each individual has differing levels of loyalty to either the Imperium or Chaos. Also, the Watchers are creepier than their adorable models let on.
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Mar 28, 2018 14:28
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I'd like to see one more group of Master/LT to help give your Razorbacks and Plasma Cannons full support, currently it'd be hard to get them all within that 6" bubble. You could give up the Vet squads and Scout heavy Bolters to do it. I'd also consider upgrading one Razorback to a Predator to unlock a Spearhead detachment and get an additional CP but I'm not sure where those 10/20 pts would come from. I would lose the company vet squads entirely and turn them into ablative wounds for the devastators. You're paying extra points on the squad for them to be 2a veterans, which you'll hopefully never use, and with only 2 models per squad they'll die really easily. I'd also probably go with bolter scouts rather than BP/CCW scouts, since the heavy bolter will mostly not want to move and you're dork angels not blood angels.
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Mar 28, 2018 14:33
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I'd like to see one more group of Master/LT to help give your Razorbacks and Plasma Cannons full support, currently it'd be hard to get them all within that 6" bubble. You could give up the Vet squads and Scout heavy Bolters to do it. I'd also consider upgrading one Razorback to a Predator to unlock a Spearhead detachment and get an additional CP but I'm not sure where those 10/20 pts would come from. Booley posted:I would lose the company vet squads entirely and turn them into ablative wounds for the devastators. You're paying extra points on the squad for them to be 2a veterans, which you'll hopefully never use, and with only 2 models per squad they'll die really easily. I'd also probably go with bolter scouts rather than BP/CCW scouts, since the heavy bolter will mostly not want to move and you're dork angels not blood angels. I came up with this, still have 19 points to spend. I figure that the Techmarine hangs out with the LC Razorbacks and the Predator? code:Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 14:50
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Due to the popularity of our Ultramarine theme at the Team Tournament I’ve already decided I will be doing the same thing next year, and have decided to make my hobby goal for the next 365 days to improve our presentation on every level. I was pleasantly surprised on how were received despite what was admittedly a mediocre effort. With that in mind here are some things I plan on focusing on, but any suggestions of ideas that could improve this theme would be greatly appreciated. At the end of the day the goal is to basically inch ever closer to Roman cosplay with an Ultramarine gloss put over it. Army – Due to the team tournament requiring 4000 points total I had to draw from two of the other teammates to fill out the roster. This resulted in the army lacking in painting cohesion. One of my teammates has above table top quality skills, but his style is still distinct from mine, and if I can brag I feel mine look better. Our 3rd contributor’s are to be frank, pretty bad. With that in mind I will likely be dedicating yet another year of hobby progress to my already sizable Ultramarine force. On the plus side I don’t expect Marines to change much as a force, and I only expect GW to make Primaris Marines better and more points efficient as time goes on. In this regard I will immediately begin finishing my Dark Imperium Marines, and then focus on units like the Repulsor and a few Forgeworld models I don’t own such as the Relic Sicarian. The idea here is to create a stellar looking and cohesive force, that is as competitive as Codex Marine force can be. Display – I liked the way my tiles came out, but they look boring as hell. I’ve had a few ideas on how to spruce this guy up. Roman columns along the roadway, with perhaps arches connecting them, a cardboard cityscape background, some potted plants to break up the white and black, and finally buildings in the open spaces. The cathedral we made ended up going to someone else, so I am back to square one on this. Any suggestions or links to companies that produce the materials I would need to decorate this thing would be GREATLY appreciated. Theme – The costumes were a hit, but we basically tossed them together at the last minute. Currently, my team for next year hasn’t even fully recommitted, but one of my teammates had a friend with tailoring skills (the guy in the dark blue toga). At the very least the idea would be to have matching outfits by next, with perhaps some sort of special items to designate the team captain such as a laurel. I’ve also thought about acquiring a centurion or gladiator outfit from a Halloween store, and painting segments blue and gold, although my skills in this area might not be up to task, I’m frankly clueless on it. Army Presentation – An item that is often overlooked in the Team Tournament is a background story and list presentation, something we put no effort in this year. With this in mind I’d like to make Roman Scrolls for each player’s army list so they can unravel them and comically read them out loud (and then provide regular copies to their opponents). In terms of background story there isn’t much that we can write that hasn’t already been written, but what I thought would be a decent gag would be to write a single page of background on a really long piece of paper and then fill the rest with gibberish to give the appearance of a ridiculously long and exaggerated background of awards and honors that hits the floor when presented to opponents/judges/etc. A final piece would be kart decoration. Once the displays are broken down after judging most models just kind of get piled on a kart and pushed around which kind of kills the hard work and theme a lot of teams do. To help with this it would be nice to decorate our movement karts in a way that adds to our Roman/Ultramarine theme. This year we provided wine in cheap plastic goblets, which we will likely do again, but that being said it just didn’t look that cool being pulled out from a black and grey collapsible kart. Some simple ideas that have hit my would be some sort of blue cloth (with Ultimas of course…) draped over the kart that hides all the gaming aids and stuff that are inside, with the top area having a simple white cloth or tray for the models to rest in…perhaps a basin of sorts. Anyway, you goons seem like the creative types, so I’d appreciate any help I could get for ideas.
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Mar 28, 2018 14:52
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Uroboros, I would definitely look to things like the Roman Forum or Athenian Acropolis for some inspiration. A large Arc de Truimph would be pretty sweet. Statues are a must. Also, go watch/rewatch HBO's Rome. If you're going to read scrolls of the army list you're definitely going to need a box from which to stand above the 
Boon fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 15:07
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Oh my god yeah. Read off your army list like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH0kO5qcPf8
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Mar 28, 2018 15:14
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Deofuta posted:For Fallen/Cypher/Current Dark Angel situation, you wouldn't be too amiss checking out the Legacy of Caliban series by Gav Thorpe. The third book in particular heavily features Cypher, and reveals some fairly interesting things. For instance, that he has let himself be captured by the DA no less than 8 times previously in order to save the entirety of the chapter from some looming threat. And that he doesn't escape once the threat passes, each time the current chapter master has simply let him go. You also get a good chunk of face time with Luther, who spouts off incessant heresies constantly as some sort of chaotically insane prophet from whom the chapter master tries to divine various threats. The mortarion-esque obsession over using Chaos (luther's rambling) to fight Chaos and the Watchers appearing are part of why I lean towards the "Dangles arent traitors, but their paranoid obsession over the Fallen and hiding them has/will cause them to unwittingly become chaos marines". Also, just to contribute to the whole debate over who Cypher is: 1. Cypher was originally a title on Caliban, but that doesn't mean it still is. Could be though! 2. Zahariel (Dangles original chief psyker) is still alive and conveniently missing from 40k. He is bumped up on the list of maybe-cyphers in that his gimmick makes him fitting for Cypher (who can mingle with Imperium and Chaos at-will); he was resurrected by Luther by binding him to the chaos daemon that was at the center of Caliban. In spite of this, he differs from traditional Gal Vorbak by knowing its true name, allowing him to use its power whenever he wants while remaining sane and loyal. +he also killed the original Lord Cypher, and Luther granted him the title in his place. -he's a Psyker which Cypher has never had in any addition. However his Psyker gimmicks (slowing time and phasing through stuff) have been represented in-game (ballistics and initiative) and story (escaping everything). +This crosses into old fluff territory that could no longer be true, but people who die and are rez'd become perpetuals who never truly die, having crossed both reality and the warp. Emperor (rez'd when he was Jesus) and Vulkan (I forget when he was rez'd) are the others. So if Cypher is a title then he'd have to have willingly given it up, and it can account for him dying/escaping by him just Getting Better elsewhere. 3. Caliban has been involved/is integral to a trinity of Age of Techdark machines that allow time travel and future sight, which basically is a plot wild card that means Cypher can be anyone even if they're around at the same time as Cypher. He could be Luthor, could be Lion, could be Zahariel, could be all of the above! Personally, I think the coolest way they could progress things without crushing existing Dangle armies would be to take the Soul Drinkers/LotD route: Cypher is Zahariel and officially rejoins the angles to set things straight, constant exposure to Luther and Watchers has corrupted the chapter, but their vigilance and prolonged exposure to it has built a mental immunity to said chaos. This is thematically supported by Lion being a fan of making swords out of 'great beasts' (chaos spawn on Caliban), which means Lion's sword is a chaos artifact and he had regularly encouraged his order to make swords out of Baby Chaos. With this revelation Lion and Cypher start training angels to use their fortitude to contain and manipulate daemons, in effect creating new loyalist Gal Vorbak. This would let them pull some cool Dangle models and gimmicks; Blade-Slave armor morphing, sprouting giant raven wings, exploiting enslaved daemons, you name it. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Mar 28, 2018 |
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Mar 28, 2018 15:15
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New Drew Carey previews up - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/28/codex-drukhari-preview-haemonculus-covensgw-homepage-post-3/ New Warlord Trait that outright gives you D3 CP is pretty neat.
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Mar 28, 2018 15:16
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AnEdgelord posted:Somehow it makes the Lion seem like an incredible loser to have him betray the imperium but also receive zero material benefit for doing so, unlike the other traitor primarchs. Them making the Lion explicitly autistic is a great reason for him to be a Traitor. His inability to read people would go a long way to explain why the Dark Angels would break off and form their own faction separate from the Imperium.
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Mar 28, 2018 15:20
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Zark the Damned posted:New Drew Carey previews up - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/28/codex-drukhari-preview-haemonculus-covensgw-homepage-post-3/ Every single DE army is getting a Haemonculus Warlord (with the Archon stratagem) for D3 points, book it.
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Mar 28, 2018 15:23
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I found the perfect Necron alternate heads - and they're GW! The Immortals Deathmark heads: Anyone have these around?
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Mar 28, 2018 15:26
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Zark the Damned posted:New Drew Carey previews up - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/28/codex-drukhari-preview-haemonculus-covensgw-homepage-post-3/ They seem to be having a blast with this codex's rules, its got alot more substance to it compared to some of the more boring dry ones.
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Mar 28, 2018 15:27
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