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Halser
Aug 24, 2016

dont even fink about it posted:

DA1 is an RPG with:
- 100% opaque game design that makes it very easy to create a character who either can't complete the game or trounces all over it.
- Really dull WoW-style cooldown combat that has aged terribly
- Several sections that are dumb to do the first time and a complete loving slog after that, with mods to skip one entirely.
Generally agree even though I still enjoyed the game, so dunno
there's three or four spells that make any fight trivial if you have them. Heal, Fireball, Cone of Cold, Mana Clash.

If you don't though, good loving luck. I still had fun with it, but I'll probably never replay it. Who the gently caress thought the Fade(and the Deep Roads without 3x Haste) was fine, jesus christ

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mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

That's a consistent Bioware problem, like how KoToR gave the Jedi such broken powers that it never made sense to use anyone but them.

VictorianQueerLit
Aug 25, 2017

dont even fink about it posted:

DA1 is an RPG with:

- 100% opaque game design that makes it very easy to create a character who either can't complete the game or trounces all over it.

- Really dull WoW-style cooldown combat that has aged terribly

- Several sections that are dumb to do the first time and a complete loving slog after that, with mods to skip one entirely.

- A complete letdown of a climax

- An assortment of extremely annoying characters that are defined by their sexuality, from effeminate templar to bi elf to permiscuous witch

Like a lot of Bioware stuff, the game has aged like poo poo and didn't live up to the hype when it was brand new.

For that matter I think the only Mass Effect with any staying power was 2. ME1 was overrated tripe right out of the gate.

I'm trolling about nintendo but DA1 literally put me to sleep during that 47 hour dwarven presidency sidequest.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

bioware games are generally very mediocre to bad

Oscar Wild
Apr 11, 2006

It's good to be a G
Nier and nier: automata are the only videogames you need. Desert island games.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

food court bailiff posted:

bioware games are generally very mediocre to bad

Sad but true

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011

by FactsAreUseless
Fun Shoe

dont even fink about it posted:

DA1 is an RPG with:

- 100% opaque game design that makes it very easy to create a character who either can't complete the game or trounces all over it.

As opposed to every other loving RPG released the past fifteen years?

E: No wait, I take that back. Unlike every other RPG released the past fifteen years that aren't depression quest you have to be a complete idiot to gently caress up your character in DA:O
Did you roll a mage and spend all your points in strength? Did you see Morrigan's transformation and think "wow that sure was awesome and very powerful, let's spec into that.

It's literally baby's first RPG

ditty bout my clitty fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Mar 28, 2018

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011

by FactsAreUseless
Fun Shoe
Let me just fire up divinity one or two and hope I didn't spend one too many points in moxie instead of mathemagic so that I'm able to complete the game

hawowanlawow
Jul 27, 2009

probably not very unpopular on this forum, but selling keys to open randomized crates is a shameful practice and a black mark on the industry. even if the publishers are technically unaffiliated with sites selling in game items, or make a token effort to shut them down. they know what they're doing and I hope they face some real consequences

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003

hawowanlawow posted:

probably not very unpopular on this forum, but selling keys to open randomized crates is a shameful practice and a black mark on the industry.

this opinion is really only "unpopular" with publishers and certain developers. most people hate that poo poo, not just here but in general

hawowanlawow
Jul 27, 2009

Earwicker posted:

this opinion is really only "unpopular" with publishers and certain developers. most people hate that poo poo, not just here but in general

I mean, it's wildly successful

Oscar Wild
Apr 11, 2006

It's good to be a G

hawowanlawow posted:

I mean, it's wildly successful

How much revenue is driven by what % of the user base? It seems likely to me that most of the demand is driven by a small percentage of users.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

hawowanlawow posted:

I mean, it's wildly successful

It's because there are a small number of people dumping way too much money into that poo poo while the loot crates ruin games for the rest of us

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
Any game that features randomized rewards for cash should be classified and regulated as gambling software.

a bone to pick
Sep 14, 2011

by FactsAreUseless

ditty bout my clitty posted:

As opposed to every other loving RPG released the past fifteen years?

E: No wait, I take that back. Unlike every other RPG released the past fifteen years that aren't depression quest you have to be a complete idiot to gently caress up your character in DA:O
Did you roll a mage and spend all your points in strength? Did you see Morrigan's transformation and think "wow that sure was awesome and very powerful, let's spec into that.

It's literally baby's first RPG

I guess you could call it an unpopular opinion or something

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

steinrokkan posted:

Any game that features randomized rewards for cash should be classified and regulated as gambling software.

it's astounding that like sixty years ago we had a dude go in front of loving congress to play pinball and prove it was a game of skill and not a mechanism for gambling, and here we are now with companies building explicit gambling into their games with the weak defense "well they're not gambling for REAL prizes!!"

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003

hawowanlawow posted:

I mean, it's wildly successful

because publishers realized they could cram the model into a bunch of already wildly popular game franchises that people are going to buy anyway.

people aren't buying those titles for the loot crate poo poo, the loot crate poo poo is in there because a large enough percentage of people will keep buying those titles - even while complaining about the loot crates - that its profitable. or was, maybe that's finally starting to turn around a little bit

Lodin
Jul 31, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Jeza posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW7xy4-TQhs


e:

also I feel like Sleeping Dogs has the best soundtrack selection of any game I've played but I have no idea if that's an unpopular videogame opinion. maybe?

Also, the karaoke. I see people praising the Yakuza games for their take on it but Sleepy Dogs shits all over that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqQhp5PL6aU

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


ditty bout my clitty posted:

As opposed to every other loving RPG released the past fifteen years?

E: No wait, I take that back. Unlike every other RPG released the past fifteen years that aren't depression quest you have to be a complete idiot to gently caress up your character in DA:O
Did you roll a mage and spend all your points in strength? Did you see Morrigan's transformation and think "wow that sure was awesome and very powerful, let's spec into that.

It's literally baby's first RPG

As two illustrative examples:

- The entire role of Shield Fighter is a total waste of time, and boring

- The actual effect of ability scores is a complete mystery and is sometimes counter-intuitive, leading to it being very easy to make a rogue who doesn't loving work because the key rogue ability score turns out to be... Strength, obviously.

You can even make a bad mage because some of the spells are just poo poo.

I mean sure there's a lot of RPGs that hide even basic mechanics, and if that was DA's only problem, fine. But Blizzard for example is really good about showing system math in all their games, and others, particularly ARPGs, have taken notes from that.

Meme Emulator
Oct 4, 2000

The only people who should be allowed to obfusicate game mechanics are japanese devs from the 80s and 90s

a bone to pick
Sep 14, 2011

by FactsAreUseless
I was softlocked out of DA:O because I had a lovely mage build, I wasn't even that far in lol.

breaklaw
May 12, 2008

Lodin posted:

Also, the karaoke. I see people praising the Yakuza games for their take on it but Sleepy Dogs shits all over that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqQhp5PL6aU

Sleeping Dogs was awesome, better than GTA in everything but graphics.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

ditty bout my clitty posted:

As opposed to every other loving RPG released the past fifteen years?

E: No wait, I take that back. Unlike every other RPG released the past fifteen years that aren't depression quest you have to be a complete idiot to gently caress up your character in DA:O
Did you roll a mage and spend all your points in strength? Did you see Morrigan's transformation and think "wow that sure was awesome and very powerful, let's spec into that.

It's literally baby's first RPG

Look, I saw gear that anyone could wear with the right stat points and thought an armored dude loaded with support spells that didn't care about stats would be fun. (And not a prestige class that you had to find and unlock about halfway through the game, which did its thing by pumping magic like every other mage)

And then the game gave me a first boss who is immune to most physical damage without me having a source of magic damage because I was a mage right?

At least it made restarting as a different dude painless with the separate starting questlines.

FoolyCharged fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Mar 28, 2018

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
If it's possible to gently caress up a mage build by putting all your points in strength, why give the player the option to do it?

Away all Goats
Jul 5, 2005

Goose's rebellion

The only thing I remember about Dragon Age is that there would be a literal DLC advertisement standing in your camp every time you set one up. That game was so generic

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

Exsqueeze me, why the sour face? I'm here to lemon aid you. Let's juice it.

2house2fly posted:

If it's possible to gently caress up a mage build by putting all your points in strength, why give the player the option to do it?

it's :airquote: content

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008

i was told my old av was distracting
Since when was Super Mario Odyssey only 5 hours long

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008

i was told my old av was distracting

2house2fly posted:

If it's possible to gently caress up a mage build by putting all your points in strength, why give the player the option to do it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGv_-a8GBhY

Josh Sawyer having a good 10 minutes about balance and game design and how they work together, this is relevant I think

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

signalnoise posted:

Since when was Super Mario Odyssey only 5 hours long
You can speedrun an any% in that time, which is what every player must be doing.

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


2house2fly posted:

If it's possible to gently caress up a mage build by putting all your points in strength, why give the player the option to do it?

If there's even a 1% chance that you can make a successful character doing something contrary to what was intended by the designers, usually by using a mechanical interaction that the designers overlooked, there's a segment of gamers who want a crack at it.

What I am describing is the basis of a lot of D&D characters, for example.

Also, when it comes to the painful and boring experience of learning opaque game design through trial, error, and wiki, and avoiding "trap options" (both accidental and purposeful), gamers tell themselves that this is their skill at the game and not them hammering their dick with a mallet and calling it "fun"

Name Change fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Mar 28, 2018

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
The first Dragon Age was pretty fun to play, I mean, sure, you can gently caress up your characters, but who the hell starts an RPG without googling a character build guide. The story and setting were the most bland I've ever seen in a game, probably, but that didn't really matter.

The sequels are irredeemable garbage fires, though.

Riot Bimbo
Dec 28, 2006


Dragon age has the worst loving mythos behind magic like the WORST poo poo. Maybe i want to be a mage without instantly signing up for some kind of loving ethical dillema because you made magic basically evil

Comfy Fleece Sweater
Apr 2, 2013

You see, but you do not observe.

steinrokkan posted:

The first Dragon Age was pretty fun to play, I mean, sure, you can gently caress up your characters, but who the hell starts an RPG without googling a character build guide. The story and setting were the most bland I've ever seen in a game, probably, but that didn't really matter.

The sequels are irredeemable garbage fires, though.

I love making random characters, if the option is there, why not see how far the devs took it 🤷🏻‍♂️

My pillars of eternity guy was a singing short guy(forget the name of the race) bard completely unsuited for combat but I’m trudging along...

Minmaxing is for mmos

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
I kind of like what I've seen of Dragon Age magic lore, stuff like the implication that dwarves are born from the blood of a Titan and the darkspawn come from a Titan infected by evil is very classic-fantasy-ish. Also the whole setting was created by accident by a pissed off elf dude and he wants to destroy the world because by cutting it off from the spiritual realm normal people are like animals to him, or whatever. I don't know that I'd be willing to suffer through 100 hours of Bioware dialogue to experience it, but I'm willing to watch my wife play it and take in a bit of worldbuilding

VictorianQueerLit
Aug 25, 2017

signalnoise posted:

Since when was Super Mario Odyssey only 5 hours long

mind the walrus posted:

You can speedrun an any% in that time, which is what every player must be doing.

I watched Rich Evans, who sucks at videogames, halfassedly paying attention and talking about star wars do it in five hours. It's hardly speedrunning. Any% for Odyssey is 1 hour.

Just because the game has 800 meaningless stars you can grind for 100 hours that doesn't mean the game is actually that long. Breath of the Wild isn't relying on trying to pretend finding 900 seeds is gameplay because there is something substantive there that can't be cleared in an afternoon.

VictorianQueerLit fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Mar 29, 2018

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
It seems hard to argue that Mario falls short on the metric of "absolute minimum time it takes to complete the critical path" i guess people disagree on the critical worth of that metric

a bone to pick
Sep 14, 2011

by FactsAreUseless
Metal Gear Solid V.... is trash. Utter. loving. Garbage.

Riot Bimbo
Dec 28, 2006


i played the MGS re-release on gamecube, and that's it.

that was an okay game but i experienced nothing that made me care about anything in the series.

jimmyjams
Jan 10, 2001


King Kong of Megadongs
Gobblin' them mega schlongs
Makin' sure they mega long
Stroke' 'em if they mega strong
metal gunt solid

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starkebn
May 18, 2004

"Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"
Plants vs Zombies: Heroes is the best "card" game, by far

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