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Mors Rattus posted:That’s Rock Lee. He’s harmless.
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Mar 29, 2018 22:56
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Mors Rattus posted:That’s Rock Lee. He’s harmless. He's a mean drunk though.
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Mar 30, 2018 00:40
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Kurieg posted:To a certain extent, he did learn how to fight from the guy who kicked someone so hard he can never walk again. Gaara vs. Rock Lee sort of highlights that he is capable of pretty scary powerful stuff so it is 100% correct to be scared of Rock
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Mar 30, 2018 01:14
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Darwinism posted:Gaara vs. Rock Lee sort of highlights that he is capable of pretty scary powerful stuff so it is 100% correct to be scared of Rock Arguably the best fight in the series.
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Mar 30, 2018 01:20
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Korra Is Good But Less Tonally Consistent Than The Original
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Mar 30, 2018 03:21
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dwarf74 posted:No, I am telling you, I have looked into those soulless eyes and he is not. Rock Lee has always been good and cool.
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Mar 30, 2018 07:41
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Impermanent posted:Korra Is Good But Less Tonally Consistent Than The Original It suffered more from being a kids show on a kids network than the original did
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Mar 30, 2018 11:25
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Impermanent posted:Korra Is Good But Less Tonally Consistent Than The Original KIGBLTCTTO is not very funny, however. NachtSieger posted:Rock Lee has always been good and cool.
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Mar 30, 2018 13:07
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TheChirurgeon posted:It suffered more from being a kids show on a kids network than the original did I think it suffered more from the succession of antagonists whose plots revolved around "gently caress over the avatar" and Korra's resultant physical and emotional crippling. Kuvira finally had plot goals beyond telling Korra how much she sucked and how useless the avatar was, but that was the tail end of the show. Even Aang wouldn't have been as confident and proactive if the first 3 books had been a procession of villains teabagging him.
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Mar 30, 2018 14:05
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The show suffered a lot from not knowing it was going to get a second season. It changed how S1 ended, then S2 was a mess because they didn't have time to really prepare, and then S3 ended up having to soft reboot a lot of things.
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Mar 30, 2018 14:30
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The objectively best season of Naruto: The Last Dragonball is the one where they play traditional tabletop games and discuss the industry that produces them.
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Mar 30, 2018 14:42
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Comrade Gorbash posted:The show suffered a lot from not knowing it was going to get a second season. It changed how S1 ended, then S2 was a mess because they didn't have time to really prepare, and then S3 ended up having to soft reboot a lot of things. Plus wasn't the move from 24 episodes to 12(ish?) pretty late in production? And then even when they knew they were getting any given season, it was jerked around on the schedule and there was all that weird fuckery with the online episodes where the network seemed to have two warring factions within it. The first season is barely watchable, and none of the other seasons are all that great, but I feel like Korra did about as well as it could have given the circumstances. ("As well as it could have" still means it was pretty mediocre even at its best, but oh well.)
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Mar 30, 2018 14:45
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Desiden posted:I think it suffered more from the succession of antagonists whose plots revolved around "gently caress over the avatar" and Korra's resultant physical and emotional crippling. Kuvira finally had plot goals beyond telling Korra how much she sucked and how useless the avatar was, but that was the tail end of the show. The antagonist problems stem from the tensions of being a kids show on a kids network, though--having to comply with censors and network desires made more complex antagonists and exploration of their ideals pretty difficult, though they do address this a bit in season 3 or whenever Toph tells Korra that her villains up to that point were essentially correct in some sense. Amon's surface goals were very solid--there's a clear inequality between benders and non-benders that's pervasive throughout their society, and the Avatar was the face of the oppressive status quo. That conflict alone could have sustained multiple seasons of a show, but those themes and the idea that the avatar was essentially a villain complicit in pushing the goals/agenda of a ruling class of privileged elites is maybe not appropriate for Saturday morning Nickelodeon, so Amon gets to be a crazy bloodbender out for revenge and the civil unrest essentially disappears when he's defeated. e: The show is still much better than mediocre, and it's beautifully animated and successful in a lot of ways that TLA wasn't, but it doesn't stick the landing nearly as well in any of its seasons and while I think it was smart for them to age up the avatar and explore more complex issues, they just didn't really have the freedom to do that, and the uncertainty around new seasons didn't help, either.
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Mar 30, 2018 14:51
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TheChirurgeon posted:The antagonist problems stem from the tensions of being a kids show on a kids network, though--having to comply with censors and network desires made more complex antagonists and exploration of their ideals pretty difficult, though they do address this a bit in season 3 or whenever Toph tells Korra that her villains up to that point were essentially correct in some sense. The season with Henry Rollins involves a straight-up torture scene. That was also the season where they suffocated a lady to death on-screen. Amon and his brother commit murder-suicide at the end of season one. I don't think "kids show for kids" was as much of a looming network hindrance as all that. There was clearly a lot of ambition, but for whatever reason, most of it was squandered. And whether thanks to a short leash from executives or their own personal stumbles, the creators included a lot of really dumb stuff that likely wouldn't have benefited much from less executive meddling or more time or whatever.
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Mar 30, 2018 14:57
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Desiden posted:I think it suffered more from the succession of antagonists whose plots revolved around "gently caress over the avatar" and Korra's resultant physical and emotional crippling. Kuvira finally had plot goals beyond telling Korra how much she sucked and how useless the avatar was, but that was the tail end of the show. Also it was kinda unwholesome on how it loved to watch Korra getting the crap kicked out of her.
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Mar 30, 2018 14:58
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Dawgstar posted:Also it was kinda unwholesome on how it loved to watch Korra getting the crap kicked out of her. That's what happens when people crib notes off Joss Whedon.
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Mar 30, 2018 15:15
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In TLA, the heroes were plucky revolutionaries against an oppressive status quo. While on paper they should have simply lost any direct confrontation with their pursuers given their pursuers’ superior might and numbers, in practice they were able to use wit and gumption to stay one step ahead and repeatedly frustrate the forces of the ruling order. In LoK, this dynamic is exactly reversed. Our protagonists rule the world (or at least enjoy the ruling order’s full institutional support) and are unbeatable on paper, but the wily villains keep outsmarting and embarrassing them in order to stay one step ahead and live to fight another day.
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Mar 30, 2018 15:18
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While being on a kid's network probably didn't help, but I don't think there's anything inherent there that would stop them from having villains whose motivations were in conflict with, but not directly centered on, the avatar. Like, I appreciate they didn't want to just have another evil overlord trying to take over the world and just rehash the original series plot. Conceptually I think the Amon plot was alright, and its intersection with the avatar made sense and fit in well with her whole internal plot of insecurity over being in Aang's shadow and whatnot (execution of the plot, maybe not so much). But then you get Unalaq whose central point is also that the avatar sucks and needs to go for the world to improve, and then we get Zaheer and co. who yet again feel that loving up the avatar is key to breaking the world out of its rut. And Korra just seems to internalize all this poo poo heaped on her, which isn't helped by the fact that even when she wins she ends up losing her past life connections and is physically crippled, on top of being an emotional wreck. When they finally do the evil overlord plot, most of the season is about Korra essentially in therapy to deal with being dumped on for three years. To be clear, I actually liked Korra for its characters and world building. There was a lot of potential there. But I wasn't watching a show called "avatar"' because I was hoping for three seasons of animated Jessica Jones.
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Mar 30, 2018 15:30
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Desiden posted:While being on a kid's network probably didn't help, but I don't think there's anything inherent there that would stop them from having villains whose motivations were in conflict with, but not directly centered on, the avatar. Also, they are all implicitly right and their stupid plots work. Besides flipping a story about changing the world into a story about preserving the liberal order, LoK also has a bad case of the "written by its own dumb fans" disease that afflicted, for example, Exalted 2nd edition (presumably because it had only kept like two writers of TLA's eight or something). So you have these extremely 'clever' elaborations of weird one-off things from the original series and how they might have been used to throw monkey wrenches into elements of the original setting. Ozai thought that if he set everything up just right, he could sabotage, outsmart, and outfight the avatar... but he failed, because the avatar is a force of divine vengeance and the real conflict was between its prerogatives and Aang's conscience. Zahir also thought all those things... and he was right and it would've worked if not for outside interference. So what, was Ozai just dumb? If he'd brought some poison along he coulda done it? And yeah, LoK just loved heaping poo poo on Korra and having everything she did fail so that people could dad sternly at her.
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Mar 30, 2018 15:41
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Yes, but Old Toph.
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Mar 30, 2018 15:47
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homullus posted:The objectively best season of Naruto: The Last Dragonball is the one where they play traditional tabletop games and discuss the industry that produces them. 
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Mar 30, 2018 15:52
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Season 1 suffered from being cut in half, season 2 suffered from recycling the ideas that were cut from season 1, but I'll hear nothing against seasons 3 and 4. They should make a tabletop game about that franchise. The setting is wonderful, and encompassing both series would ensure it has the versatility I like in a system.
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Mar 30, 2018 20:54
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Bongo Bill posted:Season 1 suffered from being cut in half, season 2 suffered from recycling the ideas that were cut from season 1, but I'll hear nothing against seasons 3 and 4. Burn Legend from Shards of the Exalted Dream actually works pretty well for an Avatar game, at least in terms of mechanics.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:20
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Exalted 3e is kickstarting the Dragon-Blooded book now, which is basically the part of the setting with element-bending warriors, although they also have some other stuff going on, like being decadent aristocrats and so forth. Also they use five elements! But, you could probably do something Avatar-like with it.
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Mar 30, 2018 22:55
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Dragon-Blooded has always been strangely modest power-wise compared to something like Avatar, and has a vastly different tone. I think it's really just superficially similar with its elemental and imperial themes. The Do setting for FATE strikes me as getting a much closer feel to what - though it's enjoyed by many adults - is largely a kid's cartoon. Burn Legend is pretty neat but requires some willingness to refine it; the primary issue is that characters are just a bit too durable and combat can drag absurdly as a result. I do wish it'd gotten to be its own thing or get a bit more playtesting, I think it's probably closer to what I wanted out of Exalted 3e.
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Mar 30, 2018 23:45
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I helped playtest Burn Legend. We told them durability was an issue at the time.
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Mar 31, 2018 01:17
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Bongo Bill posted:Season 1 suffered from being cut in half, season 2 suffered from recycling the ideas that were cut from season 1, but I'll hear nothing against seasons 3 and 4. I believe it's possible to recut Legends of the Wulin into something that fits. Fellowship with some extra moves would also work.
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Mar 31, 2018 01:40
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Personally I would use the excellent Feng Shui 2, there's even a martial art path called Fist of Flame that has some fun gimmicks in it, and can be reskinned to the other elements with ease. I'm also biased because in an Avatar game I'd just want to play a Kyoshi warrior. Wuxia martial magic powers alongside lightning being shot from your fingers straight out of the box.
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Mar 31, 2018 01:50
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Didn't someone make an Avatar PBtA game, and then start filing the serial numbers off to try and sell it? Whatever happened with that?
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Mar 31, 2018 01:53
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I've pondered on occasion whether something like Spellbound Kingdom's combat style matrix/flowchart thingie could be a good adaptation for a martial arts game. The idea of players watching the flow of their opponents moves to guess where they'll go next, or learning how different styles work so they can overcome them mechanically, seems like it'd be a good fit. Seems like it wouldn't take much more to do it for an avatar like game, it already has some magic-based fighting styles IIRC.
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Mar 31, 2018 03:04
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Desiden posted:I've pondered on occasion whether something like Spellbound Kingdom's combat style matrix/flowchart thingie could be a good adaptation for a martial arts game. The idea of players watching the flow of their opponents moves to guess where they'll go next, or learning how different styles work so they can overcome them mechanically, seems like it'd be a good fit. Seems like it wouldn't take much more to do it for an avatar like game, it already has some magic-based fighting styles IIRC. Burn Legend, as previously mentioned, did this to a degree with move types. In my experience it went too far trying to replicate video game fighting repertoires, making it a little bloated, while at the same time there wasn't actually enough complexity to the system to differentiate moves otherwise. Plus, as noted upthread, punchmans were too tough by default. It could really be neat and fun with some more work. There were a lot of interesting ideas thrown around in Ex3 development for linked powers and chaining moves, mostly in ways that didn't seem too bloaty. It seems like virtually none of that made it to release, which is a shame.
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Mar 31, 2018 03:20
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That Old Tree posted:Didn't someone make an Avatar PBtA game, and then start filing the serial numbers off to try and sell it? Whatever happened with that? Legend of the Elements?
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Mar 31, 2018 03:21
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I think that looks like what I was talking about?
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Mar 31, 2018 05:21
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NachtSieger posted:Rock Lee has always been good and cool.
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Mar 31, 2018 05:37
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dwarf74 posted:You know on the other side of the coin, Bleach has some drat cool character design. Art-wise, anyway. The problem with Bleach's characters are that there are just too damned many of them. It's like the manga was programmatically designed to monopolize Shonen Jump character polls.
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Mar 31, 2018 05:50
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Kurieg posted:The problem with Bleach's characters are that there are just too damned many of them. It's like the manga was programmatically designed to monopolize Shonen Jump character polls. I think it was Kubo who said that whenever he wrote himself into a corner, he introduced a new character.
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Mar 31, 2018 06:16
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Leraika posted:I think it was Kubo who said that whenever he wrote himself into a corner, he introduced a new character. And that guy wrote himself into a lot of corners. Some of them he made by having too goddamn many characters Kwyndig fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Mar 31, 2018 |
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Mar 31, 2018 15:45
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I'm not really saying the whole company is lock-step (in fact, I've repeatedly referred to Paizo as a "many-headed hydra"), but it doesn't have to be; it just requires enough people at the top with that sort of mindset to excuse or ignore things.
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Mar 31, 2018 17:48
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Kurieg posted:The problem with Bleach's characters are that there are just too damned many of them. It's like the manga was programmatically designed to monopolize Shonen Jump character polls. 
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Mar 31, 2018 17:52
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Bleach had the shittiest last fight because Kubo spent like twenty chapters with the secondary characters mopping up the giant squad of bodyguards the last villain had and ended up with only two chapters for the main villain vs protagonist
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Mar 31, 2018 17:57
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