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Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.
Given the whole debacle behind Medieval Spawn and Angela, Spawn #10 decrying overzealous copyright enforcement is especially hilarious.

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Edge & Christian
May 20, 2001

Earth-1145 is truly the best!
A world of singing, magic frogs,
high adventure, no shitposters

Random Stranger posted:

FWIW, the void stuff is actually the end of Church and State. While there were a few people going, "Hey, this is kind of creepy," at the time, Sim was the big man in indie comics and so it was generally ignored. I was referring to the Reads issue that you mention later as it triggered a giant response in the comics community and after that point Sim was pretty much on the outside and becoming more and more crazy in his isolation.
At the end of Church & State, the sort of stand-in God/Creator character postulates the Light/Void thing but it's men (like Cerebus) who are the Void and women are the light, and the Judge says Cerebus wants to be a hero but he will die unmourned, unloved, and alone. Specifically because near the end of Church and State Cerebus rapes Astoria and brushes off his one true love Jaka. A lot of the negative sentiment about the monstrous poo poo Cerebus did in Church & State (which was in fact pretty creepy) was mitigated at the time with an in-story harsh condemnation of the character.

Cerebus (the character) spends the next few years of the book in a more or less catatonic state while the narrative focuses on Jaka's backstory and paints a very sympathetic picture of her and her husband Rick, who is the polar opposite of Cerebus. Then in Monthers and Daughters/Reads there are in-story conflicting narratives casting doubt on everything from that middle third of the story, culminating in Cerebus 200 when he goes back to the moon and a new all-powerful creator voice (called "Dave" this time) basically goes "yeah the other creator doesn't know what he's talking about, men aren't voids and women aren't lights, and you still have a shot at not dying alone and unmourned" but then Cerebus goes back to Earth and doesn't listen to "Dave" and continues to pine for Jaka even after Rick shows up and goes "hey man you were right about Jaka" and the Light/Void stuff is explicitly reversed so that Women are Void and it is definitely stated that All of the Bad Stuff About Women Before Was Definitely True and the Good Stuff Was Fake and Cerebus does die alone and unmourned and unloved but it's not because he's an rear end in a top hat, it's because the Marxist-Feminist-Homosexualist axis has conquered the world and condemn Cerebus the True Male Hero.

Cerebus is a monumental achievement and is incredible on a pure storytelling/technical/dedication level, but it's impossible to separate it from genuine mental illness. That really hit home when I was reading/re-reading the whole thing a few years back in one go and the whole "ha ha I wrote a long meditative story about how tragic oppressive societies are on non-conforming people as a trick so that I could pull the rug out on you and prove that no, oppression is good!" is completely insane unless you chalk it up to, well, insanity. Also there are long interesting annotations in the back about the research Sim did into [Fitzgerald/Hemingway/the King James Edition of the Bible/The Three Stooges] that seem fascinating and cogent until he casually drops something in about how 'obviously true' that aliens built the pyramids or that an occult conspiracy murdered JFK.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Did the narrative in Cerebus ever cast the guy as particularly monstrous for, y'know, the anatomy, as opposed to for being a giant rear end in a top hat?

LadyPictureShow
Nov 18, 2005

Success!



Been reading Iceman, and when the heck did Pyro come back to life? Or is it just a different guy that has the old Pyro's gear?

Edge & Christian
May 20, 2001

Earth-1145 is truly the best!
A world of singing, magic frogs,
high adventure, no shitposters
You mean for being an Aardvark? In the early juvenalia the world was less defined but there was a cult that worshipped Aardvarks. Their prophecies helped propel Cerebus into being a prime minister and pope later on. There was some stuff with the Two Aardvarks that played into the main plot, but for the most part it was handled just like yeah, sometimes people are aardvarks.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

The AVClub posted:

The Onion: Why an aardvark?

Dave Sim: You know, it's really quite unbelievable to me that you have 4,000 words in which to cover the longest sustained narrative in human history, and your first question is "Why an aardvark?" What would your first question to Franz Kafka have been? "Why a cockroach?"

O: If Kafka had spent 30 years of his life writing one 6,000-page book about a man who turned into a cockroach, then maybe.

DS: [Sighs.] Why an aardvark? Before there was Cerebus the comic book, there was Cerebus the fanzine. That's how I met my ex-wife, Deni. I told her she needed a company name—the way Gene Day published Dark Fantasy through Shadow Press, which was what she wanted the 'zine to look like: digest-sized. She asked her brother Michael and her sister Karen for suggestions. Michael suggested Vanaheim Press, Karen suggested Aardvark Press. I suggested combining the two. It turned out later that a boy that Karen had a major crush on—she was in high school then—had made a joke, posing his hand on the table so that the thumb and three fingers were balanced on their tips like legs, and his middle finger was extended like a snout. "Aardvark." When you are a high-school girl and you have a crush on someone, these are the sorts of things that stay with you. So I drew a cartoon barbarian aardvark as a mascot for this fanzine publishing company. Later, when we realized that what Deni had intended to call the book was Cerberus, the three-headed dog who guarded Hades in Greek mythology, I told her we would just make Cerebus the name of the aardvark. The fanzine never got off the ground, so I decided to try drawing a sample comic page of Cerebus The Aardvark. And, for a number of months, that was all that existed: the page that turned out to be page one of Cerebus No. 1.

O: That's interesting.

DS: I'm glad you think so.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010

Is this the interview where he acted like a MASSIVE rear end in a top hat and there was a feud between AV Club and Sim for a bit where he faxed them a long screed?

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Edge & Christian posted:

You mean for being an Aardvark? In the early juvenalia the world was less defined but there was a cult that worshipped Aardvarks. Their prophecies helped propel Cerebus into being a prime minister and pope later on. There was some stuff with the Two Aardvarks that played into the main plot, but for the most part it was handled just like yeah, sometimes people are aardvarks.
Nah I mean wasn't he a biological hermaphrodite or something? Cerebus the character, I mean.

Also that interview was a hoot and a holler.

quote:

O: Are there parts of your story that you would still like to address, or perspectives that you feel you haven't yet had the chance to get across?

DS: Ever the oblique leftist. I don't "feel." If I "felt," I would never have gotten the book done. I'd be off "feeling" somewhere. My best intellectual assessment of the completed work is that I said exactly what I wanted to say, exactly the way I wanted to say it. What you want to know is if I'm going to continue to attack feminism, and what sort of artillery I have left. I have a lot of artillery left. My best guess would be that I emptied one metaphorical clip from one metaphorical AK-47, mostly firing over your heads and at the ground, although most of you are feeling as if I dropped an atomic bomb on your house on Christmas morning.

Leftist reactions are always histrionic. If it becomes necessary to renew my attack, I'll renew my attack. At this point, I think history will do most of the dirty work. Feminists are in an untenable position, defending something they no longer believe in, and which history will force them to recognize was destructive of most of the central pillars of civilization. I'm just the first one to point it out publicly. Everyone ignored Winston Churchill's warnings in 1937, but the question for Churchill wasn't, "What are you going to do to convince people you're right in 1938, 1939, and 1940?" If you perceive reality accurately—and I think I perceive reality a lot more accurately than feminists do—then ultimately, history will prove you right.

O: Again, I wasn't referring specifically to your writings on feminism. You mentioned that you should have made the series 250 issues, instead of 300. But if it took 300 issues to say exactly what you wanted to say as you wanted to say it, presumably 250 issues wouldn't have been enough space. Did you ever reach a point where 300 issues didn't seem like enough space?

DS: Oh, no. Sorry, I misunderstood.
https://www.avclub.com/dave-sim-1798208330

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch
lmao

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
I will never tire of seeing people's first exposure to the weirdness that is Dave Simm.

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


jeez, Onion parodies are usually good but that one is just too over the top, nobody would ever speak like that in real...oh, I see

Uthor
Jul 9, 2006

Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.
I love how Sim bitched about the press ignoring Cerebus 300, but was a dick head to the press that paid attention to it.

I really need to get through my back log so I can justify rereading the first half of Cerebus.

PS., Gerhard is a nice guy who only wants to go sailing with his wife.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
I hope Savage Dragon makes it to #301 before Sim dies.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
Thanks for reminding me about that interview. I like to go back and read it from time to time. It's up there with Bill Coffin's rant about Kevin Siembieda. It's the most antagonistic interview I know of since Gene Simmons tried to gently caress Terry Gross.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer

Nessus posted:

Nah I mean wasn't he a biological hermaphrodite or something? Cerebus the character, I mean.

Also that interview was a hoot and a holler.
https://www.avclub.com/dave-sim-1798208330

:eyepop: Holy poo poo that was a trip

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Rhyno posted:

I will never tire of seeing people's first exposure to the weirdness that is Dave Simm.
What's astonishing to me is that I see people actually respond to things like that the same way - I wouldn't say all the time, but people will often take any given opportunity to rant like that Mallard Fillmore comics about liberals-liberals-liberals.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer
E: wrong thread

TwoPair fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Mar 25, 2018

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer
Wrong thread

TwoPair fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Mar 25, 2018

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer
gently caress wrong thread Jesus how did I do this thrice

TwoPair fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Mar 25, 2018

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



Uthor posted:

I really need to get through my back log so I can justify rereading the first half of Cerebus.

I kind of want to do a Cerebus re-read, but I've got to get two more volumes of Cerebus so I can have the complete story. And even though Cerebus really is a towering artistic achievement, the fact that the back half is so badly tainted makes it tough for me to go through with it. I've even got a few volumes that I've had for years but not cracked because if I ever do read them I want it to be part of a complete read through.

Autism Sneaks
Nov 21, 2016
I can never remember what my favorite David Sim fact is: the long-form letter he sent to everyone who personally mailed him complaining about his negative press and reputation as a misogynist, demanding they either write back denouncing that specific smear or cut all contact with him? Or the fact that the personal belief system he arrived at after reading the Bible and Qu'ran maintains that all the Abrahamic religions are equally valid, and that contradictions between and within them are all the work of an evil false God named Yoowhoo, who is a woman, acting against the one true God, who is a dude?

Uthor
Jul 9, 2006

Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.
I like his petition.

http://momentofcerebus.blogspot.com/2015/08/neil-gaiman-why-i-wont-sign-dave-sims.html?m=1

Looks like he got his 2,000 signatures! Guess he's allowed in public again, or whatever it was he was waiting for.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



TwoPair posted:

gently caress wrong thread Jesus how did I do this thrice
I think that's some kind of a new record, just like Dave Sim's longest comic book record!

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer

Nessus posted:

I think that's some kind of a new record, just like Dave Sim's longest comic book record!

And just think even a few hours ago, I didn't know how offended I should be at being even kind of sort of compared to Dave Sim!

The more you know...

VileLL
Oct 3, 2015


big dave sim posted:

the longest sustained narrative in human history

it would be pretty funny to show him a collection of one piece or something similarly huge with no pictures (maybe the fantomas series?)

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
HELP.

A long time ago I read a Marvel comic where the Hulk shows up and somebody refers to him as "GreenJeans" and the Hulk replies "HULK NO WEAR JEANS."


Would anyone happen to remember this?

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

VileLL posted:

it would be pretty funny to show him a collection of one piece or something similarly huge with no pictures (maybe the fantomas series?)

Every episode of Coronation Street back to back.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



VileLL posted:

it would be pretty funny to show him a collection of one piece or something similarly huge with no pictures (maybe the fantomas series?)
To give Sims his due, I think One Piece had either not started or just started when he finished Cerebus.

He'd also probably plead some BS about it not counting because of mangas having assistants or whatever, or editors, or not being self published, or whatever other excuse there'd be.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Mangaka do have tons of assistants...

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003



Dave Sim had Gerhard to draw the backgrounds, so it's not like he did it entirely alone.

JordanKai
Aug 19, 2011

Get high and think of me.


Is there a good, centralised way to find out what HCs and TPBs are going to be released in any given month? Using solicits means having to go through 5+ lists of publishers for me and Comicvine only has weekly lists. Both of those also require me to wade through all the single issues coming out as well. Is there a better way to go about this or am I square out of luck?

Senior Woodchuck
Aug 29, 2006

When you're lost out there and you're all alone, a light is waiting to carry you home
This link takes you to the most recent Previews catalog, filtered for just graphic novels: https://www.previewsworld.com/Catalog?cat=3

You can move backward a month at a time using the "previous catalog" link, but you have to reapply the filter. That's about the best I can find.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Anymore I just search by title on Amazon.

EvilJay
Jul 25, 2005

LadyPictureShow posted:

Been reading Iceman, and when the heck did Pyro come back to life? Or is it just a different guy that has the old Pyro's gear?

Like 2 or 3 issues ago of (I think) X-Men Gold. New guy with Pyro's gear and similar powers. I believe he's currently on the Gold team after being freed from Mesmero.

LadyPictureShow
Nov 18, 2005

Success!



EvilJay posted:

Like 2 or 3 issues ago of (I think) X-Men Gold. New guy with Pyro's gear and similar powers. I believe he's currently on the Gold team after being freed from Mesmero.

Haha, I read those issues of Gold like 15 minutes after posting that question. But in Iceman he had a different costume than ‘good’ Pyro, but I’m like that could have been the one controlled by Mesmero...
But they could have handwaved ‘bad’ Pyro having stayed alive after Necrosha...

Basically :psyduck:, but it wouldn’t be the most ridiculous things comics have done.

Follow up to that, are there any silly examples of an author having a character show up in a comic, not realizing they had been killed off?

The Question IRL
Jun 8, 2013

Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...

The Best flip of that was in the West Coast Avengers Annual where the Grandmaster made the Avengers fight a Lrgion of the Unliving!

And Mightygodking photoshopped annotations about how most of them were later ret-conned to still be alive.

Edge & Christian
May 20, 2001

Earth-1145 is truly the best!
A world of singing, magic frogs,
high adventure, no shitposters
I wrote about that two-parter, it was my first favorite comic! The best/dumbest part about it is when the Avengers all drop dead in the middle of a softball game and somehow the West Coast Avengers are convinced by the Collector to drink poison so they can save their friends from Death.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
Also, the Kree later took Midnight, transformed him from an African ninja to an African cyborg space ninja, glued mirrors to his hands, and sent him to fight the Silver Surfer. That didn't go very well, but at least he got to wear a fedora in space.


Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Mar 30, 2018

EvilJay
Jul 25, 2005

LadyPictureShow posted:

Haha, I read those issues of Gold like 15 minutes after posting that question. But in Iceman he had a different costume than ‘good’ Pyro, but I’m like that could have been the one controlled by Mesmero...
But they could have handwaved ‘bad’ Pyro having stayed alive after Necrosha...

Basically :psyduck:, but it wouldn’t be the most ridiculous things comics have done.

Follow up to that, are there any silly examples of an author having a character show up in a comic, not realizing they had been killed off?

At this point you can probably blame anything on the universe reset. I'm pretty sure Maggot has showed up in the background a few times after his death but before the reboot.

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DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

Edge & Christian posted:

I wrote about that two-parter, it was my first favorite comic! The best/dumbest part about it is when the Avengers all drop dead in the middle of a softball game and somehow the West Coast Avengers are convinced by the Collector to drink poison so they can save their friends from Death.

IIRC that's the one where Hawkeye saves the day with an old carny trick?

*follows link*

Yep! That was one of my first favorites too, brilliant story.

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