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oddium posted:caveats and situations of course but quantity is reman's favorite group The problem with quantity is that you get manpower, force limit and money to support it naturally as you expand. But you don't get stronger troops and leaders by expanding, you can only get that from ideas.
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Mar 30, 2018 07:36
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Pyromancer posted:The problem with quantity is that you get manpower, force limit and money to support it naturally as you expand. But you don't get stronger troops and leaders by expanding, you can only get that from ideas. Right but quantity gives you a leg up during the harder beginning bit of the game. He doesn't say *not* to take the others, just that quantity is real good at the start and still pretty good at the end. While quality/offensive are good kinda once you're already easily stomping everyone.
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Mar 30, 2018 07:45
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Pyromancer posted:The problem with quantity is that you get manpower, force limit and money to support it naturally as you expand. But you don't get stronger troops and leaders by expanding, you can only get that from ideas. This is totally irrelevant if you never have *enough* manpower, the relative cost of mercs is increasing due to the nerfs to maintenance cost reduction so that's another incentive to want a bigger manpower pool. Unrelated but I would advise people to avoid the beta patch as there is a nasty bug causing allies to peace out within the first few days of a war starting, which is a pleasant change from the norm, but kind of ruins everything.
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Mar 30, 2018 07:46
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Also it's not so much about the higher manpower cap, but having your manpower refill way faster.
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Mar 30, 2018 07:47
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Quantity means you get even more manpower and force limits from conquest, which lets you conquer even more. Basically it lets you snowball a lot faster than having better troops.
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Mar 30, 2018 08:08
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You can always abandon idea groups later and pick someone that fits the later game better. It's great. 
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Mar 30, 2018 08:23
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No Hungary it's cool don't use your 20k men to help me fight the Ottomans, please go and stand them all on their OPM ally's one level 3 fort, that sounds helpful. E: Related, since I've been wrestling with it all morning, here is an Abridged Guide to Byzantium Start on Hard, 1.25 edition: 1. Restart until Hungary rivals both the Ottomans and another state which you can also rival (usually Venice). Hungarian assistance is absolutely necessary and this is the only way you can make them like you enough to ally them. Rival so that you get mutual rivals with Hungary. Mil focus day 1 (I hate doing this but you need to hit mil tech 4 ASAP). Delete fort in Morea and reduce all maintenance to zero, hire mil advisor of any type and dip advisor if appropriate (+relations or +diplo rep) 2. Decide on 2 other alliance candidates; they must be Christian (it's not possible to make any muslims like you enough to ally, even Karaman) and preferably they will have marked Ottoman provinces as PoI so that you can call them into an offensive war. Don't ally Wallachia as Hungary declares on them virtually every time, unless the Ottomans decide to go for Albania first 3. Do everything you can to ally everyone you decided on above, including spamming royal marriages; your starting ruler will die fast enough that it's fine to do a throwaway RM. 4. Declare on Ottomans when they're scrapping with Albania, or alternatively, Ottomans will declare on you at some point. The latter is better in some ways as it means no involvement from Ottoman allies, though because Serbia is a loving rear end in a top hat and rivals you every game they won't give you military access, which means it can be difficult to merge forces with Hungary. 5. Don't fight Ottoman troops unless you have a good general and have a strong defensive bonus and a slight numerical advantage, or you have a huge advantage and a better general. You will lose every fight with equal forces even if you have a significant advantage in die roll results. The AI is not good so this isn't as hard as it sounds, and even with just Hungary as an ally you should have a larger total force than the Ottomans. On lower difficulties this is exactly the same only you can make better allies more quickly, on VH you probably just need to be more careful when fighting (OE has more troops but so will Hungary) Also worth noting that there is a frustrating amount of RNG here as it can gently caress up in the following ways even after start scumming for a favourable situation: Hungary decides to be a Habsburg bitch Ottomans decide to go ham on you in early 1446 instead of going for Candar and/or Albania first, which makes it impossible to have any allies RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Mar 30, 2018 |
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Mar 30, 2018 09:45
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The new mission tree is cool. Maybe a bit too powerful for nations with specific ones, as England I already own the western half of France and the rest is my PU bitch, just waiting for ae/coalition to tick down then I will smash Austria for their English channel centers of trade then I will go absolutely bonkers on the rest of the world. Castile is the only actual possible rival I have, and that will change once 100% liberty desire Aragon will finally declare indipendence (that I am supporting) Also the Reformed faith just popped out, and I haven't gotten anglicanism yet. Should I wait for it, or just go Reformed to grab a CoR ? Is it possible that the anglicanism event doesn't actually fire? ( or fires for the last remaining lovely OPM in Ireland, or 5-province Scotland...)
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Mar 30, 2018 11:54
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RabidWeasel posted:Are there actually any good reasons to take Religious ideas any more over Humanist if you get missionaries and missionary strength from other modifiers and have a large mission set to cover early game expansion so you don't need the CB? Humanist gives massively superior benefits in terms of reducing revolts, as well as the gigantic improve relations boost. I vaguely remember Humanist gets a bunch of events that suck and make people hate you for no reason, which I assume Religious doesn't have, but I also assume I must've glitched out or something in the game where the just just loving kept happening.
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Mar 30, 2018 17:22
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 So I finally got a TTM start where I think I might be on pace. Sadly had to abandon the run where Ming exploded. 1527 right now and I have all the spice island region (siak and kutai are vassals) and am working my way up the east coast of Africa. Plan is to fight Ethiopia and flip Coptic since thats still the best religion? Also Colonialism has yet to spawn so something wacky is going on in Europe
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Mar 30, 2018 17:26
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RabidWeasel posted:Are there actually any good reasons to take Religious ideas any more over Humanist if you get missionaries and missionary strength from other modifiers and have a large mission set to cover early game expansion so you don't need the CB? Humanist gives massively superior benefits in terms of reducing revolts, as well as the gigantic improve relations boost. Religious has some nice free stability increase events and tolerance of the true faith is basically just unrest reduction. I still like religious more than humanist, but I don't really take either much. At least not if I'm in europe.
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Mar 30, 2018 17:48
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Is there a trick to reducing a ton of AE that works in the current patch?
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Mar 31, 2018 00:07
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The Mamluks declared on the Ottomans 3 months before my truce with them ran out 
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Mar 31, 2018 00:28
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Whats a good time frame for taking over Ireland as one of the Irish places? 1470 and I still only have 4 provinces. Am I not being aggressive enough?  e: England just offered an alliance. This is super tempting because it means I have more time to claim the rest of the island but also the last time I said yes to and alliance with England they dragged me into wars all over the place and made the game a real slog. Furnaceface fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Mar 31, 2018 |
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Mar 31, 2018 01:14
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Fun times as late-game Pasai turned Malaya who still couldn't stand against a stable Ming. So I instead broke my armies into four and did a rolling looting spree from my border to siege down Beijing, using one of the Indian winners to distract half their army while not-quite-complete Japan distracted their navy. Then I did what I could to add devastation but it wasn't enough before my manpower ran out and they were 21% away losing all my war progress. It was probably my first foray into declaring on Ming, but disappointing to see them sit at no manpower and hundred mercenaries without flinching. I'm now trying to convince Russia to ally me so we can properly do a double team rip-roar through their country.
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Mar 31, 2018 01:30
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Furnaceface posted:Whats a good time frame for taking over Ireland as one of the Irish places? 1470 and I still only have 4 provinces. Am I not being aggressive enough? 4 provinces by 1470 is pretty slow, yeah. If you ally England or even Scotland at the start, you can ignore aggressive expansion. Just go ham on the whole island.
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Mar 31, 2018 01:39
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i'm pretty sure you can take the whole island and only get enough ae to make scotland and england mad, and scotland shouldn't exist shortly after that point anyway
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Mar 31, 2018 01:40
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Furnaceface posted:Whats a good time frame for taking over Ireland as one of the Irish places? 1470 and I still only have 4 provinces. Am I not being aggressive enough? You don't actually have to contribute in the wars england calls you to. Just accept the call to arms and then keep on doing your own thing. Nobody's gonna bother you on your little island (probably)
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Mar 31, 2018 01:41
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Furnaceface posted:Whats a good time frame for taking over Ireland as one of the Irish places? 1470 and I still only have 4 provinces. Am I not being aggressive enough? You also can't instantly backstab them when the War of the Roses fires or if they get bogged down on the continent. You're much better off setting yourself to threatened and making nice to one of their rivals like France or Castille.
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Mar 31, 2018 02:25
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MrBling posted:Religious has some nice free stability increase events and tolerance of the true faith is basically just unrest reduction. I still like religious more than humanist, but I don't really take either much. At least not if I'm in europe. Yeah, religious is legitimately worth while to take and then not take any ideas in while you save up for whatever else you have going on at the time and then abandoning when you want to finally get your REAL idea group, JUST for the stab events.
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Mar 31, 2018 08:52
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Has anyone gone for the Around the World in 80 Years achievement lately? Looking it up, when it came out you could get some land outside the british isles, so starting in malta, madeira, iceland would allow you to expand quickly. Starting from Britain I'm not seeing how you can quickly get to asia/india.
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Mar 31, 2018 10:55
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KoldPT posted:Has anyone gone for the Around the World in 80 Years achievement lately? You can no-cb vassalize an arabian minor and use coring next to vassal to take suez which lets you get around africa for free
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Mar 31, 2018 13:36
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RabidWeasel posted:The Mamluks declared on the Ottomans 3 months before my truce with them ran out Quoting myself because they did it AGAIN the second time round, the Ottomans are ultra hosed this playthrough, I think that they might be off map by 1500  Furnaceface posted:Whats a good time frame for taking over Ireland as one of the Irish places? 1470 and I still only have 4 provinces. Am I not being aggressive enough? I'd always take an alliance like that, not so much for the actual alliance itself, but because you generate less aggressive expansion on allies. If you're playing aggressively then this is one of the main things to take into consideration when choosing allies, and is fairly essential to abuse if you're starting as an OPM.
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Mar 31, 2018 14:15
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The key to Proper Irelanding is to be fast as hell so you can conquer everyone before England starts diplovassalising them, because that will happen.
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Mar 31, 2018 15:08
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RabidWeasel posted:Quoting myself because they did it AGAIN the second time round, the Ottomans are ultra hosed this playthrough, I think that they might be off map by 1500
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Mar 31, 2018 16:55
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Gaius Marius posted:Never count them out. I've seen them reduced to a OPM only to come back a hundred years later with all of anatolia, georgia, and persia in their empire. Quoting for truth. In my current Hungary game (1.24.1), I joined Albany in it's war, then some Kandar, Karaman and other Anatolian minors jumped on them. Kebab removed by 1480. And then Karaman got a rebel problem, and promptly the Ottomans are back on the map.
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Mar 31, 2018 17:10
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Right but quantity gives you a leg up during the harder beginning bit of the game. He doesn't say *not* to take the others, just that quantity is real good at the start and still pretty good at the end. While quality/offensive are good kinda once you're already easily stomping everyone. No it doesn't, ideas that actually make your army better give you a leg up, quantity just gives you more room to bleed. Having an army that can win decisively is vastly more useful than having one that can "win" one pyrrhic victory after another until all of that extra manpower is gone and you're left with no advantages whatsoever.
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Mar 31, 2018 17:54
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I've been trying to get an Ideas Guy + For Odin game off the ground and been having trouble. Most of the guides I've seen combine it with First Come First Served and gently caress that (I've already done it anyway). I tried starting out on Mann but it's been rough going. Any advice?
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Mar 31, 2018 18:03
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It would probably be a lot easier playing it like a First Come First Serve game anyway. What are you specifically having trouble with?
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Mar 31, 2018 18:37
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Well, allies are a big issue. In one of my runs I had a fair bit of success fending off Scotland in early wars since you have a decent chance of beating them at sea. Problem is trying to secure mainland allies. It's sort of the classic problem of the OPM--I need to increase my power to be considered for alliances but that raises my aggressive expansion. At the same time, once I've got an army big enough that I've got a chance of fending off Scotland, England can utterly crush me. In one run I invested just a bit in development, to get Mann up to ten dev (to get me out of a money hole and help me start building Renaissance). It helped for a bit, but in the end it seems like it just got me further behind.
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Mar 31, 2018 19:33
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Yeah you're definitely not going to have an easy time starting anywhere near Europe. If you don't want to start in the Americas, you could try a South Africa start. Dominate the Cape and get fat off all the Indian trade.
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Mar 31, 2018 19:43
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Mehrunes posted:No it doesn't, ideas that actually make your army better give you a leg up, quantity just gives you more room to bleed. Having an army that can win decisively is vastly more useful than having one that can "win" one pyrrhic victory after another until all of that extra manpower is gone and you're left with no advantages whatsoever. Taking quality/offensive doesn't give you a "vastly" superior army in the early game though? You're looking at a quality or offensive army doing maybe 5% more casualties while not necessarily even winning battles since morale is probably the same. For it to balance out the quality army would have to kill +50% extra enemy to make up for their lack of manpower, which they just won't at that stage. The quality side could win a few pyrrhic victories, but probably close to a 50/50 split. Then they're out of manpower far before the quantity side.
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Mar 31, 2018 20:05
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Quality and offensive should probably be later game, if you even pick them. First mil pick should be defensive or quantity rather than those. Which one? depends totally on your situation. Quantity is a better group overall, but if you can’t afford a bigger army then it’s of limited use at first. Defensive gives you that big morale boost right near the start which can be a war winner by itself, but it’s comparatively lackluster in the long run. There’s no always-right answer imo.
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Mar 31, 2018 20:26
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If you compare it by yearly manpower regeneration, you need to inflict 80% more casualties than you take in order to make a country with quantity hurt more than you do, with all else being equal. That takes a lot of stackwiping, and with little room for error. Also nobody ever comes into this thread and says "wow, the Ottomans/France/Russia took quantity ideas, beating them with my vastly superior troops will be a walk in the park".
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Mar 31, 2018 21:28
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Fister Roboto posted:If you compare it by yearly manpower regeneration, you need to inflict 80% more casualties than you take in order to make a country with quantity hurt more than you do, with all else being equal. That takes a lot of stackwiping, and with little room for error. Beating Russia with superior troops is a walk in the park.
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Apr 1, 2018 00:48
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10k with +10% infantry combat ability vs 100k normalos.
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Apr 1, 2018 00:57
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Has anyone gotten a big where they can't attack the english mainland? I have all the DLC and on 1.25 and I started a France playthrough. I decided to take Normandy around 1450 and sent troops through Scotland to attach England. The unit wouldn't start a siege on any province in the mainland. I walked all the way to London and got nothing. Was a 17k unit, I want to say it was either 10/7 or 11/6. All my powers were still 3/3/3.
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Apr 1, 2018 01:33
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Big Poppa posted:Has anyone gotten a big where they can't attack the english mainland? I have all the DLC and on 1.25 and I started a France playthrough. Is it possible your troops were exiled?
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Apr 1, 2018 01:40
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sounds like scotland wasn't in the war/giving access and landing your troops there exiled them yeah. look for a black flag on them
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Apr 1, 2018 01:45
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Any troops that aren't in either your land, your allies land, or uncolonized provinces will get exiled when you start a war. Just having military access with someone doesn't work
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Apr 1, 2018 02:10
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