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Splitting it into two worked. Don't ask me why but whatever -- just consider both posts part of the same lovely mess.
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Apr 1, 2018 15:00
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Maaaaan, Smurch is still a huge, dangerous jackass. I hope the Guava Plan cleans his clock. Does using bio weapons ruin your diplomatic rep like genocide does? I seem to remember it did in MOO2.
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Apr 1, 2018 17:53
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Oh man, this run’s got it all. Max tech, Orion, Crystal monster, mega empires, espionage, this run really tells the whole story.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:25
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PurpleXVI posted:Does using bio weapons ruin your diplomatic rep like genocide does? I seem to remember it did in MOO2. Yes, but if you pull it off against a race, it doesn't matter if everyone hates you because they will all soon be dead.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:44
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You might want to go ahead and wipe you the single planet races. Diplomacy is going to be hopeless very soon. We design ships very differently. I almost never put two different weapons on a ship (sometimes a few bombs to fill extra spaces). Unless I’m building a self repairing Death Star, I pick the weapon I want to use and cram the most I can into a hull, using the size that gives the lowest cost per weapon. Aside from insisting on the very best engines I’m reluctant to sacrifice firepower for anything. I’ve just found that pure damage output beats everything else.
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Apr 1, 2018 19:25
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What's your philosophy on how to handle different types of opposing ships? I.e, when a weapon is good against one that you encounter but not very effective against others?
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Apr 1, 2018 22:40
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Thotimx posted:What's your philosophy on how to handle different types of opposing ships? I.e, when a weapon is good against one that you encounter but not very effective against others? More firepower! I don’t build to counter particular designs. I want a big punch, usually torpedoes or missiles for distance, and enough speed to control the range. Then sheer numbers. Usually I take a medium or large hull, give it my fastest engines, cram the maximum of my preferred weapon in, and spend any remaining space on shields and ECM. No targeting computer or other frills. Then I build a lot of them. Lots and lots, because I will take losses. I keep them in one fleet, hunting enemy detachments, no matter what system they happen to be in. My wars are about destroying the navy, only capturing planets afterwards. I never split my fleet unless both parts can easily destroy any enemy they come across. Really tough enemies I’ll shoot and scoot to wear down.
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Apr 2, 2018 07:09
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Like the different approaches Wayne has advocated, I think this is in the category of 'not wrong, just different'. ** Even if I can take them down, I find it very difficult to pin down an AI fleet. If they're outnumbered they often just retreat, and as much as they move around, it feels like chasing your own tail. Take down enough planets, on the other hand, and you don't even have to fight their ships; they'll have to disband a lot of them. ** I've found the more firepower approach to not always work the best. Sometimes it does -- I think most of my designs in this LP have featured a single weapon. There are cases where that's not the case though. For example, when fighting thousands of fighter-class ships, there's almost always a better option that torpedoes because most of their damage will be wasted. In this game, ignoring the BHG would have been risky -- the Silicoids caused a lot of problems with it until I adjusted my designs in the Human game. ** Avoiding ship losses wherever possible is paramount in my thinking. If you can take down one enemy ship and not lose any versus taking down three and losing two, then you can spend that production you would have needed to replace the two losses elsewhere. Seems that my approach is more based on the foundations of economic warfare, where yours is more of a direct 'classical military' approach.
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Apr 2, 2018 18:55
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True, I’d say. I also build fewer missile bases than you, so I’ve got more resources to put into the fleet. I’m also a lot more aggressive, trying to secure a winning position very early. I never sit as patiently as you have in this game. You also seem to win a higher percentage on Impossible than I do.
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Apr 2, 2018 20:48
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PurpleXVI posted:Smurch is still a huge, dangerous jackass. I hope the Guava Plan cleans his clock. We haven't the tools for that ... but you are right. Smurch is most definitely looming as a sizable problem. CathodeRaymond posted:this run’s got it all. Max tech, Orion, Crystal monster, mega empires, espionage, this run really tells the whole story. Indeed. It wasn't long after this that I began contemplating what an appropriate ending would be, if I did manage to complete the comeback. Time will tell of course whether I did or not ...
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Apr 3, 2018 05:09
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Yay for slwo and steady! Kudos for sticking with it for so long.
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Apr 3, 2018 05:26
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Episode X: 2750-2775 With the Mrrshan going away, it's increasingly a three-horse race with us still the clear third wheel. That's about all there is to see here.  ** Bulrathi -- 24(+2). Still growing, but only a modest rate. Frankly that's the best we can hope for at the moment. ** Silicoid -- 21(+1). ** Sakkra -- 15(+2). Both of us(meaning the Silicoids as well of course) profiting from the Mrrshan conquest is just about the best I could hope for, and that's not quite done. Ten developed worlds, down one from our peak. Six are shipbuilding worlds, four are research systems(Orion, artifact worlds Crius/Iranha, and Whynil, mineral poor, which serves as both the staging system for the fleet and first choice for sending out population for invasions etc.). What we need most are most systems suitable for shipbuilding. ** Mrrshan -- 4(-3). Best-case for them is they are allowed a single world a decade from now. Their fangs were sharper in this fight than any before it, but self-destructive tendencies once again did them in(namely, picking a fight with both superpowers at the same time. Just no.) ** Meklar -- 1(--) ** Alkari -- 1(--)  I don't think the Universal Antidote will help enough to matter -- the Bulrathi often attack with hundreds of BioTerminator ships, plenty to wipe us out in a single attack. Maybe in an edge case. The biggest difference-maker coming is the Plasma Torpedo, a weapon that is literally effective in any scenario regardless of the tech. Unlike the Death Ray, all the Tech Nullifiers in the world won't affect it. Like all torpedoes atmosphere halves the effectiveness, but at at 150 damage it still has more than enough to penetrate any shielding. Once we get it, the Colossus will cease to be necessary. Thorium Cells(unlimited range) and the Class XV Deflectors that the Bulrathi and Silicoids already possess are the other two significant projects already outstanding. After that it'll basically be a matter of increasing efficiency through tech; reducing costs, cramming more on each ship, etc. And a few new toys like the Oracle Interface, Lightning Shield, etc. that we won't be using, at least in the short term. Last time around the plan went well; we built up a reasonable fleet and went after the Mrrshan. That conquest will wrap up soon, probably in about five years give or take. Here's how it stands:  This is the majority of the Mrrshan fleet, which destroyed our Dragon II at Escalon. Unfortunately for them we have a few dozen more cap ships, and they have none remaining. The Sabertooth, which was roughly an equal to our Dragon, have all been eliminated(by the Silicoids, not by us). There are two more planets more or less directly below Denubius; Fierias the homeworld and then Cygni. We intend to take Escalon, then Fierias, and depending on what the Silicoids do, Cygni if practical. It's important to make sure that we do not destroy the last Mrrshan world and get the genocide hit. Right now the Bulrathi only attack us when we are in their way. I don't want to give them any added motivation for doing so. In terms of the economic picture, military maintenance is just over 28%(22.7% fleet, 5.5% bases). As you can see by those numbers, missile bases are now an afterthought. It is now SOP to build 100 bases on any developed world. That's far more than we need against the Silicoids who can't penetrate our defenses, and we could have 10,000 and it wouldn't matter against the Bulrathi. I do think having around that many does still serve as a deterrent, up to a point, against the AI sending a fleet to the planet in the first place. That's really the only reason for not having like 10 everywhere to keep the rocks away. But the expense is no longer an issue. And Then There Were Three Two things are beyond obvious: ** The Bulrathi aren't losing in the Council, so we'll eventually have to fight them. ** The era of effective planetary defenses is over, as mentioned above. Our main weapon then, will be a fleet capable of cutting through enemy defenses as quickly as possible. We're definitely working in that direction, and will continue doing so. Silicoid and Bulrathi shielding is considerably more robust than the Mrrshan(they both have the maximum possible, Class XX Planetary and Class XV Deflectors, for a total of 35 damage absorbed per attack). That means only high-end weapons can penetrate(or biologicals). ** We are highly unlikely to ever get the BioTerminator. Smurch isn't willing to trade it, and wisely so, and nobody else has it. That means we'd have to steal it either via espionage or by force. Invading Bulrathi planets is possible. But very hard under the best of circumstances. So the Guava Plan, much as other aspects of this game lend themselves to it, seems to be off the table. A Road with Two Forks After finishing up the Mrrshan campaign, we can turn our attention to either the Silicoid or Bulrathi. We need to eliminate one or at least cut them down to irrelevant size, strong as they are, so we can focus on the other. To my mind it's not a close call. ** Time is always against us. The more tech we get, the closer our ships will get to matching those of the superpowers. Attacking the Bulrathi would be taking on the true threat, but I'd rather do that when we are as powerful as we can be. ** Everything I've seen indicates the Silcoids are the easier target and will continue to be so. ** There is always the danger of the Council going against us, and if we take systems away from the Silicoids we'll be nominated rather quickly. However, that really won't matter much at this stage. In a Final War scenario, it would just mean the Bulrathi came at us harder and sooner than we want them to. But we're going to have to fight them anyway, and they won't gain much from the tech-sharing. Having said that, I'd still prefer to prevent Final War from triggering if possible. ** Our current designs are specifically anti-Silicoid(even more precisely, anti-Tech Nullifer). At least for now, the Bulrathi do not have that toy. We may want a different configuration to go up against them, so taking out the rocks means we can retool afterwards. I could go on a bit but I think that's enough blather. Granid's Silicoid menace is the next target. The general goal, regardless of who we fight, is hit 'em where they ain't. It's about destroying their economy, not necessarily their ships -- though where given the opportunity, that's obviously a good idea too. Since we haven't acquired the Advanced Space Scanner yet, all we have to rely on are the number of ships at a system and whether it has a Stargate. That's the only information available to us. I'm also going to have to recall all of the Dragons stationed over developing colonies when this begins. That will make them vulnerable, but this will be a galaxy-spanning operation and will be about offense, not defense. We'll lose some systems for certain no matter what. It's simply going to be necessary to destroy more of theirs. Beginning by hitting what are apparently the weakest available targets, we'll want to get a sense of what kind of force is required to take out their systems without taking significant casualties. If possible, we'll start hitting multiple planets simultaneously. Destroying a significant part of the Silicoid Empire will be the goal of the first phase of the war, seeding our colonies there to replace them as much as possible as well. Naturally the Bulrathi will probably contest this effort and snag some of them. Then we'll want to invade other systems once we've cut them down to size, as defined by having a superior enough fleet that I'm confident we can handle any confrontation between their ships and ours. That's short-cut the rebuilding efforts, give us a better chance of retaining the territory, and also allow us to steal a lot of their technology. That's the plan. Time to find out whether it's going to work.  Our newest Dragons were sent to Escalon, but the Mrrshan fleet had left. One missile base was up, and it took out almost half of our troop transports. Which wasn't nearly enough. Time to see what we can take. ** Terraforming +20(yawn) ** Ionic Pulsar(more yawn) ** Pulson Missiles(one step above the Stingers, nice) ** Cloaking Device(might be useful in ensuring we get the first strike, which can be huge in massive fleet engagements). Cloaked ships can still be attacked, but a +5 defense bonus ensures those attacks will have minimal effectiveness. ** Tritanium Armor(we have better) ** Sub-Light Drives(triple yawn) We get the maximum six, and a couple of useful ones. Next stop, Fierias, in two year's time. Also ...  The only surprise is that it took this long. 451 years for anyone to officially check out. The Meklar were a middling power for a couple centuries, but were the first to really get pushed aside. At the same time that the Bulrathi were destroying Proteus, their final holdout, former homeworld Meklon was being glassed by the Silicoids. That's the kind of chaos I can really get behind.  Another casualty of not having the advanced scanners is that we can't send in troops to meet the ships -- because you can't send transports without having explored a system. Which is sensible as it might be a place too hostile to survive or uninhabitable. But we know what's here in this case. There are virtually no Mrrshan ships left. Let's see how we fare against their bases.  https://youtu.be/JeIIoaeeVbA Losing a couple of the original Dragons isn't bad; I'll have to scrap them soon anyway. But I do like how well they survived the missile attack; the Colossus should do even better. And we get the Universal Antidote.
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Apr 3, 2018 05:44
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 Nope. We may be attacking your enemy, but ... uh ... you won't like who's next on the hit list. The next year we captured Fierias and smashed defenses at Cygni, which is unfortunately a poor planet. But better than nothing.  Now our bases have the best missiles they can have, with this and the Scatter Pack Xs. Which actually probably won't matter in the slightest. But it's still nice to have. We also got the Mauler Device(20-100 damage beam weapon), which is what you use for endgame stuff when you don't have the Death Ray, and several more lower-level captures.  The entire galaxy is within our grasp. Irrelevantly, this means re-establishing contact with the Alkari for the first time in centuries. Hilariously, our last intel report on them is 298 years old. That's not something you see everyday. And the Bulrathi came to Crius .. but retreated! They didn't have any BioTerminators with them. An interesting development. I think they would have smashed our bases with ease, but more importantly they didn't think so. Cygni fell as well, completing the Mrrshan conquest as that leaves them with only Misha. Three more techs were captured, a couple of them good but none that we'll be using. The Mrrshan have some transports and ships floating around that I need to clean up, but then it'll be time to start looking at Silicoid targets.  I couldn't agree more. That'll save me the resources of chasing your ships around. Go back to Misha, live long and prosper.  Didn't take long, given all the industry that we captured when taking it. Back to 11 developed systems.  It is 2757, and time to light the powder keg. Going after the Silicoids means helping Smurch, their sworn enemy, get stronger. It means the final conflict is here, and there is no turning back from this point. But I don't see any purpose in further delays. Fierias will complete its Planetary Shield this turn, which should make us safe from the Silicoids. And that's all we can ask for. I've decided it's best to burn down worlds that the Bulrathi can't reach. One of the few things we have that they don't is unlimited range. The two red flags in the upper-right corner are Klystron and Gienah. I'll start there, then move down the extreme right-side border. This will at least limit the amount of worlds we free up for potential Bulrathi interference and control. At the same time, I scrap the remaining Dragon Is ... there are only three of them. I want a new updated Colonizer -- I'm still at Impulse engines on those -- to seize any possibilities that come up. Soon we'll have the new torpedoes and get another updated version going, but not until then. I even get the Bulrathi to agree to another(even if momentary) Alliance. There's no reason to delay. https://youtu.be/0CoEIFJqmBw Klystron first. A test foray here to see how our ships hold up. And it's pretty clear they don't. We lack the firepower to take down a fortified planet. An epic crapton of bombs will be required to crack them.  Don't worry, there never was a future for us. The Bulrathi want us to declare war on the Mrrshan, so peace there is over, while Fierias becomes our 12th developed system to come online. As for proceeding further in the war, shipbuilding is halted briefly so I can get the torpedoes in and do another round of design. I need to know specifics before deciding on the next approach.  Not what I'm looking for, but a big increase(+20) to our combat rolls that will make us a lot more competitive there when the time comes. The last of the important Construction advances, so I can divert even more spending elsewhere. Granid says: "We shall make an example of you blah blah blah others that resist the might of the Silicoid Empire". In other words, we are now at war. I was hoping that would wait but honestly it's a small matter. 2761 brings the Plasma Torpedoes; Plasma Rifles for the ground troops are next. Bombing the Space Rocks The main question is do we still need bombers. The answer to that is: can I fit on enough Plasma Torpedoes to make Neutronium Bombs obsolete? And right now that's a big NO. The torpedoes would do an estimated 75 damage against planetary targets, 36% more than the bombs -- which take up just over a 7th of the space. So I need to keep on with the process of having a dedicated bomber, I just need a LOT bigger payload.  The advances we've made have allowed enough miniaturization to do just that. I went a different route with this. It'll be hard to hit until it fires due to the Cloaking Device, maximum armor/engines/shields/ECM, and then the stabilizer instead of the more advanced nullifier because it has enough speed to reach the planet in a single turn, so more manueverability would be redundant. First time I've ever had to use a second weapon slot for the same weapon, but this has five and a half times the payload of our last edition. 106 bombs at a time instead of 19. I'm still going to want as many as I can get.  And the latest Dragon, complete with Plasma Torpedoes. I'll want to close the distance with ship targets on this guy. I've decided that I'd rather have the Nullifier than ADC. The sheer volume of ships involved now seems to make repair a relatively unimportant concept. Avoiding damage in the first place seems a higher priority. I've had more than I need in the reserve for a while now, following my general rule-of-thumb of having enough to equal my annual planet production for the empire. No compelling thing to spend on it though. I think I've found one. I don't think I'm going to have a higher priority than jumpstarting these new ships. The existing Dragons(variants II and III) are dispersed to developing systems that don't have planetary shields yet, in an attempt to make them a bit more defensible while the new workhorses are constructed. Right now just over a third of our holdings are in that category, seven systems. That's enough to make a big difference if we hold on to them.  I didn't think we were that close to getting these. Came the very next year. So naturally I re-did the designs with improved shielding. The Dragon is down to 18 torpedo launchers now: the Colossus carries 'only' 94 bombs. Personal shields for ground troops can still be improved, but I'm going with the Lightning Shield next, the best anti-missile system. Then the toteboard started to fill up. 2763, the next year, Denubius and Cygni joined the ranks of developed worlds(14 now). The Silicoids flailed impotently at Iranha, then retreated. The next year, they could have taken Kulthos ... but gave up in the face of a Dragon trio. That was really important because it's nearing readiness. Keeta and Romulas were finished, both of them planets built from the ground up before the Mrrshan campaign. That made 16. Unfortunately Granid's forces came back and took down Kulthos, but the loss of one growing system can't dampen my enthusiasm about the fact that our shipbuilding capacity is about to increase by at least half as the other systems come on-line.  On the other hand, it's difficult even to imagine worse news than this. It's hard to see exactly what they got, but it does appear that the Neutronium Bomb is among the discoveries. Which means we don't have much time of safety. We've got to start taking their systems as soon as possible. Their next fleet upgrade might well render them able to take down ours. https://youtu.be/j1zYga9NQQw This is at Meklon, a current battleground. Standing up to the Silicoids for the first time. Their ships are still better than ours, but not by as much as they once were. I definitely need practice with this kind of super-late-game tech.  Our collection of gear for the troops is almost complete. Weapons tech itself is, which leaves Force Fields as the only remaining important field, receiving nearly all the funding now . '  17 systems, as time ticks slowly by. It's 2771, and we are neck-and-neck with the Silicoids for that second nominating position. A race I'd rather lose, but appear to be winning. As I consider this more, I realize that I really can't afford to go Final War yet. And that may well happen in four years time if I don't take action. We don't have enough for a veto bloc. I decide to pursue a temporary Silicoid peace. A deal is soon reached after the usual -- some mostly-expendable tech bribes. How long it lasts remains to be seen.  The timing of the truce might at least be used to our advantadge. The Silicoids have yet to deploy their bomb, so my fortified worlds are safe. This is the 'Meklon Triangle', a trio of contested worlds lately. I happen to control them all at the moment, but don't usually. The rocks won't attack for a while after signing a treaty, so I'll invest in maximum buildup efforts of these three; Kulthos, Meklon, and Omicron. Perhaps I can hold some of them permanently.  This makes it a good idea to redesign the bombers again. The Lightning Shield will destroy 59% of all incoming Zeon Missiles, giving us a considerable survivability increase. I'll may put it on the Dragons as well, eventually. This will replace the Cloaking Device, and a marginal increase of 94 to 97 bombs is achieved on the Colossus 4.  475 years into the game and I'm nominated for the very first time. That's patience for you.  Since they hate Smurch and we made peace, the rocks support us. Surprisingly, so do the Alkari.  Still in veto territory with two to spare, although they haven't done great in fighting the Silicoids lately which I'm just fine with. Mrrshans hate us, so they vote Smurch ... and we have a whopping 43 votes! That I didn't expect, I'm in veto bloc territory myself. All I need to do is maintain this level or increase it, and we can't lose the diplomatic way. I abstain, not wanting to upset our ally of convenience.
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Apr 3, 2018 05:45
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Had to split that one up also. I think I'm just getting too verbose for the forum's liking with all of the goings-on in the latter stages of this struggle.
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Apr 3, 2018 05:46
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Wow! Great going! Amazing to see you having gone from near last to neck and neck (or rock and neck).
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Apr 3, 2018 06:01
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It's been said many times, many ways, throughout this run, but it bears reiterating:  I don't think I've ever seen a remotely fair fight this high up the tech tree.
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Apr 3, 2018 06:36
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Is there any chance of destroying a couple of Bulrathi planets immediately before the Council vote, to lower their number of delegates below veto? Amazing game, and amazing level of patience.
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Apr 3, 2018 07:02
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If the Silicoids are voting with you, yeah, wouldn't it perhaps give meaning to do a lightning war against the Bulrathi ahead of the next council vote, and try to take the victory that way, assuming the Silicoids remain more-or-less friendly?
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Apr 3, 2018 11:48
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What was the threshold for victory last vote? Because, yeah, even half the Guava plan may be enough considering how much people hate the Bulrathi.
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Apr 3, 2018 13:47
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451 years from space flight to genocide. Pretty grim, MOO.
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Apr 3, 2018 14:08
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MillennialVulcan posted:451 years from space flight to genocide. Pretty grim, MOO. Poor show, lizards. I bet humanity could do it in half the time (and still butter up everyone for last-minute diplomatic victory)
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Apr 3, 2018 14:14
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All turning up fine just as predicted.
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Apr 3, 2018 15:23
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The one ring is serving Sauron well.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:43
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PurpleXVI posted:wouldn't it perhaps give meaning to do a lightning war against the Bulrathi ahead of the next council vote, and try to take the victory that way, assuming the Silicoids remain more-or-less friendly? That's a rather large assumption. This didn't occur to me but I don't think I would have done it anyway. The gap between them in votes(44-35) makes it risky. If I took down too many worlds, it'd be me vs. the Silcoids and the Bulrathi would vote with them. All of a sudden I've got a two-front war. And you never know when the Silicoids are going to flip. With an enemy as powerful as the Bulrathi -- Smurch belches in the general direction of any system and it is destroyed -- I prefer the safer if longer route of not attacking them if I have to ... and then, when I do so, not going for just a couple systems. ManxomeBromide posted:t bears reiterating: You are not wrong, other than needing to be slapped for that phraseology. rchandra posted:amazing game, and amazing level of patience. [/quote They, uh, didn't manage to do so in this LP at least  . Kanthulhu posted:All turning up fine just as predicted. Problem with this is the next time I say 'this is a disaster' everyone's just going to be all 'nah. This.Is.Fine.' no matter how bad it is. But yeah, you were right. Here, have a chocolate-chip cookie.
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Apr 4, 2018 22:26
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Thotimx posted:You are not wrong, other than needing to be slapped for that phraseology. Sorry about that, and I'm not sure I even said what I was trying to say. Let me try again: This is the first time I've seen a fight with top-tech ships that seemed evenly matched. It's always been "only one side can do damage even in principle."
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Apr 5, 2018 03:26
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His issue is most likely ManxomeBromide posted:but it bears reiterating:
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Apr 5, 2018 07:29
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Yep. It was meant to be a light-hearted jab/backhanded compliment aimed at the bad play on words.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:10
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Episode X: 2775-2800 The military angle is always a lagging indicator and that's really the only thing we're waiting on. And I'm only waiting on getting ourselves closer to a higher level of mobilization(the 35% maintenance threshold); the others are going to have bugged 32k stacks from time to time, and we'll never match that. Other than the fleets, we find ourselves equals.  ** Sakkra -- 22(+7). ** Bulrathi -- 21(-3). First decline they've seen in some time, and it is definitely welcomed. ** Silicoid -- 21(--) ** Mrrshan -- 1 ** Alkari -- 1 I'll ignore the Mrrshan and Alkari from now on. they are irrelevant. This about as close as you can get in terms of systems controlled. We have 16 developed worlds(11 shipbuilding, 5 research), and another half-dozen in various stages of buildup. All are secure right by virtue of the fact that the Silicoids signed a treaty recently and the Bulrathi are allies. Both of those situations are temporary, and while we haven't seen the Silicoids deploy the bomb yet I have to think that it will happen. I just haven't been able to build ships fast enough to do more than basically keep pace with the economy expanding.  I've switched to having half instead of a third of the ships we make be of the Colossus variety. I think they are going to be the more important type. Right now we're only at just over 20% in military maintenance spending, and we just need more ships. As much as I'd like to attack right away we just aren't ready yet. Given the number of Dragons we have, esp. the old ones, I'm going to build even more of the Colossus and try to even things out some. I want to get moving ASAP. 2776: The Alkari note that 'if necessary we will save the galaxy from the Sakkra madness'. I'd like to see you try. This is the most pathetic threat/warning I've ever received. Not only aren't they relevant now, but they haven't been for at least 300 years if not longer.  Another year. Look at that nonsense. 102 capital ships among other things. They'd really like to attack Meklon, and I'm quite sure the 'grace period' is the only reason that they don't. Granid is just basically waiting for an excuse. I don't want to give him one; I'll withhold attacking until he runs out of patience, or I get planetary defenses up on these systems. They're churning out over 100 factories a year, but the process is still underway. It's quite fast at this stage but still takes some time.  2780. The Silicoids aren't in orbit here, just as Meklon and Kulthos the last few years. Still, it's another one up. 17, with five still in progress.  Kulthos also, both the next year. The truce is over. Well Granid, you made this happen. We load up and head for Klystron again. Maintenance is at 27.2%, so we're mostly mobilized. In 2783 we tried for the second time -- let's see how much better we are at taking on their fortifications. https://youtu.be/KkG3SW960MI Heh. I think that'll do. I wanted the Colossus 4 to reach the planet in a single turn so that's a mistake I made here. But, taking out over 50 bases in a single drop with 18 of them -- we've now passed the 'maximum fortress planet' test. Klystron is a Dead Ultra Rich system. The Silicoids have a relief force incoming -- they don't have stargates which makes things easier on us -- but no capital ships. We should be able to handle them. I want to try some troop invasions right away, adjusting that part of the plan. We have nearly all the best equipment so we should at least be competitive in that endeavor. Won't keep all the systems and it'll go a little slower, but I still think it's worth doing for the potential quick turnaround on getting defenses of our own up, and the tech captures.  I extremely don't care. Almost all of the Silicoid reinforcements at Klystron retreat before we can destroy them. https://youtu.be/VzETcxQbeSo The Silicoid troops have the same thing we do, except no Powered Armor(Armored Exoskeletons instead). That's enough to give us a significant advantadge. We also pick some of the nice 'post-advance' techs, which will really improve the miniaturization and cost-reduction process, along with a few other no-longer-needed toys. And they naturally declare war. Ok, test successful. Now it's time to kick this thing into gear. I'm going to split our fleet into three sections and send each to a different system. If it's radiated we'll have to destroy it, otherwhise I want to invade it. We won't leave any ships behind for defense: the point is to neuter the Silicoid empire and take what we can in the process. Each will have, for now, 10 Colossus variants and whatever Dragons are available. If I have enough ships for the 10 Colossus each, then I'll build more Dragons; otherwhise more Colossus(Collossi?) will be constructed. I'll try to keep the reinforcements flowing to the different task groups as best I can, but for now I just want to eliminate as many systems as I can as quickly as I can. Particularly along the right edge where the Bulrathi are unlikely to join the fray. In general it went well. The next year we defeated opposition at Gienah and Simius, but also found there were a couple of things the Silicoids were still able to do. Our Plasma Torpedoes weren't as good against the Kraken Cruiser, a design capable of teleporting, because it moves further away to sap their strength. They also like using the Tech Nullifier on our Colossus bombers, lowering the accuracy of their payloads. I'm not sure there's a great deal we do about this other than just keep the ships coming. Invasions at those two systems also initially failed; I understimated Silicoid resistance. They've got a lot of loyal rock formations(or whatever they use for troops) and our results weren't always quite as good as in the initial fight on Klystron. It's completely worth it, but it will take the sacrifice of many lizardfolk to dislodge them. Meanwhile initial Silicoid response was less than impressive. They sent their main fleet after Orion, a move to take out the best strategic system they could find, no doubt. Two cruisers were also sent to Klystron. TWO. We swatted both efforts like flies as they still can't crack our planetary defenses.  This will max out our exchange rate, and should help things go a lot more in our favor. It's also the last new thing we really want. All research fields are equalized, and reducing costs is the only thing left to do really.  This inferno planet and the other two were taken in the next wave. A truly stupid amount of stuff was taken. Advanced Construction Tech VI(!!). The Tech Nullifier. And ...  Sure, let's throw this log on the fire. That'll significantly boost every planet we have. Just now I'm wondering if we can get enough population, eventually, to narrowly out-vote the Bulrathi instead of fighting them. Right now they freaking love us, cause we're destroying their mortal enemy. Also:  If they ever do deploy effective bombers, we'll be thankful to have these as well. Wherever the Silicoids brought in small fleets we stayed and defended. Their major force went to Gienah, so we just left and moved on. And of course there was all the fun micromanagement of constantly reinforcing each of the three fleets with new ships, investing in the Advanced Soil Enrichment and Class XX Planetary Shields on each and every developed world, etc. But this was the last upgrade, at least in economic terms. In the big picture, it's about chopping down the boulder. We've taken four Silicoid systems for the moment, but they possess 19 more. A long way to go before they are forced to start downsizing. Just because I can, I sign a new trade deal with the Bulrathi: 9575 BC. It was 3450. I think that's the biggest one I've signed. I think my production is close to theirs so I may not be able to get it higher, but we'll see.  In this situation, this late in the game, you end up with situations like this. 16M being cloned on Keeta with the 'leftover' from a single click of eco spending. 216 factories being built in a single year. And Whynil the center of the 'Relocation Spokes'. Just because it's tradition and I don't feel like the changing the location. It could be almost anywhere with the stargates, but it's a reasonably central location which is good for sending out ships to various locations not on the network as the three-pronged offensive gets gradually reinforced and moves on from target to target. With how the far we've reduced sizes and costs, I could redesign the ships but right now I can't be bothered. If I have to fight the Bulrathi I'll go with a new design, but I think I just might be able to push our population high enough not to do that and win a Council vote. If I do, it'll be just barely. At any rate, that's the strategy here. I'd want a different approach to things in that event possibly anyway, but the Colossus should work just fine no matter what. Soon the problem became merely logistical; I had to twiddle my thumbs waiting two years instead of one for transports to reach a system before clearing out relief forces and moving on. Then three. Oh, the horror. That was pretty much the only obstacle though. Once the Silicoids scrapped most of their main fleet due to it's oppressive cost, there was little to be concerned about in terms of winning the war. Multi-pronged attacks tend to shatter any vestiges of coherence in the AI. And wherever the Bulrathi took down a Silicoid world, our colony ships stood ready to sneak in and claim it for the Sakkra people.  2797. A lot less red. We've now exterminated nearly half of the Silicoids and a tough battle is now one in which we take any losses at all. A fourth task force has just been formed, and it's first target will not be Silicoid. The situation in terms of galactic population remains such that I'm not sure we'll ever have enough or not to out-vote the Bulrathi in the Council. Every world matters, and I'm willing to risk genocide. In this case, the Alkari. I figure that I can probably maintain good relations with the Bulrathi given how much hurt I'm putting on their enemy, so I'll bounce back quickly. That's the reason for doing this now. We've ceased getting any technology acquisitions from the conquests however. That's basically stable. Our current ships are less than half the cost that they were when built, and fill less than half the available space. That's the measure of how much our capabilities have advanced. What we have now is going to bring the Silicoid Empire to it's knees in about a decade, and even attrition is pretty minimal so there is no point in building any more of them. It's time to turn our attention to the Bulrathi eventuality. Their ships, last we saw of them, utilized the Lightning Shield and Black Hole Generator extensively. That means I want to keep the Repulsor Beam. I didn't see them using the Tech Nullifier, and I don't think they possess it. Not many holes in their collection but that's one; Robotics VII is another big one, and they've repeatedly tried to acquire it(and failed, I didn't want to hand it over). They use Displacement Devices a lot(the one that makes them shake constantly), which make all weapons(but not specials) miss a third of the time. Like the Silicoids, they also have maximum shielding capacity, and their ground troops are of course formidable per usual -- but they are at least missing personal barrier shields and perhaps more there, so we would have at least some tech edge. In terms of ship weaponry, they were very heavy on the use of missiles. For that reason, I'm going with Battle Scanner - Repulsor Beam - Lightning Shield as our Specials, to combat their missiles as best we can. The Dragon V will switch back to beam weapons. Just as we played against the Tech Nullifier by deploying torpedoes against the Silicods, the plan is to(if necessary) play against the Lighting Shield and BHG by deploying the Repulsor Beam and, in this case, Death Rays make their return. They are cool -- that's a good enough reason.  The Stellar Converter also joins the party just for diversity; I like having the option to hit multiple destroyer/cruiser-sized vessels as well. A more offensive approach with the HEF and Oracle Interface as specials instead is also quite possible: taking the teeth out of the enemy's favored weaponry is better though in my experience. That's why I upgraded the ECM capabilities to our best. Even with this, the cost is significantly reduced; our previous top ships were at about 5.5k when they were designed. This is still well below that. I don't see any need to continue the Colossus line; those Death Rays will chew through planetary bases just fine, atmospheric diffusion or not. Having an all-purpose ship like this once again makes it possible to build multiple versions of it, allowing more tactical options and diversity against any unexpected enemy surprises. I don't think that's going to be necessary at this point, but it's still worth doing just in case.  You can't stop Sauron, you can only hope to contain him!!  My first misstep, if it even was one. The Silicoids have changed to attacking newly-captured colonies after my ships have left them, instead of doing so immediately. It's a rather crafty strategy, and sometimes like was probably the case here they are so close that it's a one-turn move; I don't see it coming. Such things can be no more than temporary and very minor setbacks -- unless the Bulrathi show up. I have to make sure to recolonize before that can happen. I decide it's worth distributing the new Dragon Vs to such worlds. I'm now at the point that the economy can easily support throwing a couple capital ships above all developing systems while still pressing our attacks against the established Silicoid planets. That should nip most if not all of this nonsense in the bud.  The great Silicoid empire ain't what it used to be. Naturally they aren't happy about this .  Most votes they've ever had. We abstain with 67, just over half of the galaxy. We need two-thirds, and at the moment we fall 18 votes shy. The Silicoid war both increases and decreases the total here: all we can do is eliminate their radiated worlds, but on the other side of the coin atmospheric terraforming and soil enrichment increase the capacity of any captured systems beyond what they had when in control of them. It remains an open question whether we will get enough. We must finish up our conquest and max out as many worlds as we can this next cycle, and then we'll see whether we get there or not. Hopefully it will be over soon, but our latest ships will ensure that we're ready to act if it is not.
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Apr 6, 2018 00:48
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Holy poo poo is it actually going to happen? The comeback of all comebacks?
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Apr 6, 2018 01:20
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And the steamrolling begins.
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Apr 6, 2018 01:20
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I betcha the Bulrathi would trade Bio Terminator for Advanced Construction Tech VI...
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Apr 6, 2018 01:42
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PurpleXVI posted:Holy poo poo is it actually going to happen? The comeback of all comebacks? BAH GAWD I hope so  drat, I'd never have expected something like this to happen!
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Apr 6, 2018 03:32
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Jesus Christ you're really gonna pull it off, you absolute maniac 
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Apr 6, 2018 03:38
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You are far, far better at 4X games than me. I'd have given up on this round a long time ago.
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Apr 6, 2018 03:41
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Apr 6, 2018 05:17
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Thotimx posted:Like the different approaches Wayne has advocated,  I'll put up a ZIP of my saves of this game once Thot is done (which looks to not be much longer, amazing comeback ), if anyone's curious as to how I put fleets together in various phases of the game. The one consistent thing is I try to only be in one "serious" war at a time (not counting also-run AIs that don't take much effort to beat anyway), and tailor my builds to the gaps in their tech trees, which I find through Hiding spies. At any given time 3 of the 6 slots will probably be new-ish designs (or old ones that still happen to work) custom-made for the war I'm in, with a defense ship (usually a stack of Small/Medium missile boats or fighters), Huge workhorse that's good at everything, and a floating slot I never keep very many built of, so I can switch to colony ships or alternate bombers (so missile bases split their fire) or whatnot. And yeah, Stone, my experience with Impossible is that there's usually at least 1 AI you can't beat in a straight-up fight for a long part of the game, you have to get them to waste their fleet on another AI or wait for them to scrap or something, and if you have to fight them you want to hit their planets with your fleet and use your bases defensively to whittle down theirs. Like that pic I put up earlier with Smurch's fleet coming to hibernate in Phyco, there's absolutely no way a human player can deal with 400 Pulson cruisers in 2450 or whenever the heck it was, on top of everything else he had. Meklar are notorious about that too. Thot's solution is to go scorched earth on their planets, mine is to avoid that fight entirely until I can get a tech edge (HEF is usually about when that happens) because once you beat that AI you've won the game typically, but it's usually not feasible to just shred their navy first.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:18
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Please, no council vote victory. The blood gods demand blood.
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Apr 7, 2018 01:40
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PurpleXVI posted:Holy poo poo is it actually going to happen? The comeback of all comebacks? CommisarMega posted:amn, I'd never have expected something like this to happen! AngryDiplomat posted:Jesus Christ you're really gonna pull it off, you absolute maniac Cythereal posted:You are far, far better at 4X games than me. I'd have given up on this round a long time ago. It is indeed(nice .gif there coolguye!) It's a sure thing at this point, thanks everyone! Looked good at the conclusion of the Mrrshan war due to critical mass of territory, but once I got a successful test bombing of the Silcoids at Kryslon, that's the point at which I woudl call this game a strategic certainty. Whatever systems the AIs might take from me here or there, it was only going to be a matter of time until I could overwhelm them once I could take down a maximally defended fortress world with relative ease. I should say I didn't expect it either, and I'm not nearly as good at other 4Xs. If enough people want me to, I'll prove that with MOO2 or something after this LP is finished. On that I'm basically an equal for Hard difficulty and have never even gotten to the point where I was ready to try Impossible. I could learn it I'm sure, but yeah don't take this LP as an indicator of general prowess. I've just spent way too much time playing the original MOO . There's a saying that seems appropriate here:Paul Morphy, American Grandmaster posted:The ability to play chess is the sign of a gentleman. The ability to play chess well is the sign of a wasted life GuavaMoment posted:I betcha the Bulrathi would trade Bio Terminator for Advanced Construction Tech VI... You'd think so, but no. They kept saying "Robotics VII or Death Ray please". Part of this is I think they already had it. The 'Advanced Tech X' items are all guaranteed AFAIK, so there's no gaps to fill in there. Wayne posted:I'll put up a ZIP of my saves of this game once Thot is done (which looks to not be much longer, amazing comeback ) Cool. And I'm going to spoil coming attractions enough to point out that you may be interested in the starting situation in the next game. I'm blaming you for it, since you started this sharing trend and 'let's see some of those hard starts you get' crap. Let's just say that MOO was listening, and threw down the gauntlet with fervor. Strategic Sage fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Apr 7, 2018 |
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Apr 7, 2018 21:21
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Episode X: 2800-2825 It's been half a millenium. Five centuries. And finally matters are drawing to a close. I hope.  Here's something new. MAX means that we can't research anything more in Construction. 99 is the highest level you can get. The other five fields can still offer cost reductions. It's quite slow at this level, most of the Advanced research things we've gotten were just stolen. Six Silicoid systems remain, and they know we are coming for them soon.  2801. Maretta is taken and the Alkari finally eliminated. We lost nobody in the attack. I think we had about at 150% chance of winning each mini-battle or something, their tech was pathetic as you'd expect. Sidelined for a few centuries, their story finally ends. Bulrathi relations are down to neutral, but they'll change their tune as we continue to press our Silicoid attack.  2805. Granid holds only three systems. One is a radiated world recently colonized, another an unimpressive Toxic where most of the fleet is for some reason. Those are the two blue stars to the left and slightly below this. So it's time to go for the jugular at Cryslon. https://youtu.be/8J1KlAM3KVw The new Dragons aren't as fast as I would like, due to no Inertial Stabilizer/Nullifier. That doesn't matter a ton, but it does make them somewhat vulnerable. Either way, they had almost no ships at their homeworld which made this easy. I had intended to show the ground takeover of Cryslon as an example of an epic ground battle. It wasn't though, much of the population had been killed or shipped out. I had other invasions with close to 200M defenders during this war. But still, it's a capital/homeworld, so here it is: https://youtu.be/bvI-s69QmIo The next year we took Ryoun, the only available for capture. I may let the Silicoids keep Darrian, or I may destroy it, but in any case that's the best we can do in terms of territory without more genocide or attacking the Bulrathi. 20 planets for them, 40 for us. Almost two decades to max them out which should be plenty of time. It's going to be close, so I decide to pull out all the stops. That means letting the Silicods live(the Council disbands if there are only two empires left) and taking out Misha, the final Mrrshan world. That small bit of population may be all that matters. I'll probably also design an intentionally weak ship to bomb the Silicoids, just to keep the population of Darrian, their last colony, down.  Misha falls in 2809. 16 years of joyful micromanagement to squeeze every last ounce out of our 40 systems, and have the fleet prepared to go to war if that's not enough. We give the absurdly obsolete Cloning and Industrial Tech 7 to the Bulrathi to ensure they don't even think about cancelling our Alliance. My impression is that we are going to come up just short. 2809 Census: I miscounted the first time: we have 41 systems, not 40. Well that's something. 26 are at full capacity, 15 are still growing to some extent. We clearly don't have enough people now: the total is 8.117 billion Sakkra. Many of the planets that are short were fully-developed or close to it; they simply had to transfer out troops for the conquests. That's over now, and it's time to see how big we can get.  Well, this sucks. I thought our fleet was deployed well enough to make us invulnerable, and we destroyed most of the attacking Silicoid ships. But not all of them. We've got plenty of firepower, just not enough to concentrate it everywhere. Going to be tough to get Cryslon resettled and back up to maximum population in a decade. Only a handful of systems remain to get their shields up and this was one of them, being one of the most recent conquests. Piffle. 2815 Census: 10 years to the vote. In the past six years we're now up to 31 maxed-out planets(five more finished), but the loss of Cryslon which should be resettled next year puts a big damper on that. Total population is 8.712 billion, still a 7.3% increase however. Tick-tock ... 2820 Census: 34 of 41 planets done(+3) with five years to go. The rest are close, including Cryslon. Total population is now at 9.032 billion, another 3.7% increase over the past five years.  That is so close. Again I think we come up just a hair short, probably a single vote, but it's close. Assuming the Bulrathi don't start anything over the last few years, the goal is to invest in ecology for cloning purposes starting two years beforehand, and make sure we get all the way to our max. Then the year before I'll bribe the crap out of the Silicoids to get them to cast their one vote our way hopefully. We can only add another 43 million citizens, which less than half a percent more than we already have. We'll do that, but it's going to basically not matter.  GRRRRR. 2823. No spying problems for decades. Sigh. Everyone else is maxed aside from Cryslon(268 out of 270). So I can still do this. Need to transport enough to Nyarl the first year to take it back, and spread out the commitment enough to clone my way back to full population in the year afterwards.  \Naturally, out of the 41 systems, this is literally the hardest one to do that at because of the nebula. Only the stargates save me. Don't ask me why the stargates still operate on a planet with a rebellion, but they do. Although i suppose it could be worse. If this happened a year later there'd be no chance to re-max.  What the heck. I sent 150M. Should have won 45% of the battles. 97M defenders. That means the estimated amount needed is 118M. What crap luck. And now I'm basically screwed. So ... I don't know if this will work, but I'm going to send 5M from every planet and then do a bit of eco on each one to ensure they re-max. Bloody micromanagement hell just because of what I think was just a stupid random event at the wrong stinking time. Of course some of the troops will die of exposure, but this is the last year before the vote. I can't afford to have mistakes, and I need a bunch of them to survive to max out Nyarl as well, so ... good luck. Last few dozen(million) to get to the airlock, die! And not to forget, a few tech bribes get me a peace deal with the Silicoids. Watch it not matter one drat bit. Naturally the second wave of troops eliminated the rebels at a 2:1 rate. Because of course they did. I didn't need them to. Argh. The last 15 years or so worth of effort came down to one thing: Smurch's vote total ...  Let it be known in the year 2825, it was decided that nothing was decided yet. By a single stinking vote. 93-48 is the distribution, 91 for us, 48 for the Bulrathi, 2 from Granid who voted in our favor. We've got to fight the bastards anyway. THIS.WILL.NOT.END. There's nothing else for it though. It's time for Sauron and Smurch to throw down. ** Note: I'd already decided that I wasn't going to take the victory even if it presented itself. But you just knew I had to fail by a single vote. There's some obscene late-game stuff I want to show. The next few updates will change format a bit, because I'm going to end this game in a special way.
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Apr 8, 2018 03:55
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Thotimx posted:The next few updates will change format a bit, because I'm going to end this game in a special way. Looking forward to it.
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Apr 8, 2018 04:18
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