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i have a pretty mixed opinion on franxx so far, some episodes have been pretty rough but its also managed some really good episodes and bits, and the character animation has been amazing. i could easily see it turning into a really good show in its second half. or, uh, falling off a cliff.
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Apr 3, 2018 00:30
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Caphi posted:Bring back the thing from Alpha where every attack was a single weapon action and every weapon was in the attack list, so Combattler V had two pages of close-range free attacks for every bizarre thing it did in one episode that literally nobody ever used because they were all strictly worse than the sword. Excuse me I really hope you're not trying to talk poo poo about the BATTLE CHAINSAW or Voltes' Super-Electromagnetic Strings. If I hear you disparage the Great Mazinger's BACKSPIN KICK then I think we'll have to take this outside.
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Apr 3, 2018 00:34
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chiasaur11 posted:Well, some of it's just continuing, but yeah. We've got at least... five mech anime this season? There's also that new Gridman anime coming this year
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Apr 3, 2018 00:34
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I miss Mazinger having five different kinds of rocket punches, some of them ammo based and some of them energy based.
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Apr 3, 2018 00:37
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I mean there's 2 more seasons of fafner untouched for material
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Apr 3, 2018 00:40
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Does Buddy Complex ever become anything but a straight generic real robot anime but with a vaguely super robotty mind link kind of thing?
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Apr 3, 2018 00:47
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In an SRW context I have zero investment in Buddy Complex' plot but Aoba's a good boy and I'm glad he's hanging with the team.
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Apr 3, 2018 00:48
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Samurai Sanders posted:Does Buddy Complex ever become anything but a straight generic real robot anime but with a vaguely super robotty mind link kind of thing? there's a reason there wasn't a Buddy Complex season 2
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Apr 3, 2018 00:49
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Buddy Complex was a pretty generic show but coming off of stuff like Valvrave it was nice to see something at least hit the target it was aiming at.
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Apr 3, 2018 00:52
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majestic prince is a lot better than buddy complex
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Apr 3, 2018 00:57
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Caphi posted:In an SRW context I have zero investment in Buddy Complex' plot but Aoba's a good boy and I'm glad he's hanging with the team.
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Apr 3, 2018 00:59
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I still hope for the inclusion of knights and magic at some point since I am a fan of fantasy styled mecha, but also since it would be the perfect excuse for build fighters units to show up given the protagonist is a literal gundam model builder and the show is all about him bringing his ideas to life.
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Apr 3, 2018 01:51
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Samurai Sanders posted:Does Buddy Complex ever become anything but a straight generic real robot anime but with a vaguely super robotty mind link kind of thing? The only thing I know about buddy complex was it was written by committee, literally. The writing credit went to "Buddy Complex Writing Committee".
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Apr 3, 2018 01:53
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Hokuto posted:You know, I see gripes like this that cover the whole spectrum— yearly basis for portable consoles and those lameass split games, you mean and hey, what do you know, units are more fun to play around with when they have a more diverse move list
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Apr 3, 2018 02:02
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Terada, let my sad, legless Zeon boy cast Valor and blow up a Zondar. 
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Apr 3, 2018 02:50
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Ryas posted:yearly basis for portable consoles and those lameass split games, you mean What, exactly, makes a unit with a bunch of redundant attacks you never use "more fun"? If you have a unit with attacks that cover redundant ranges, you're going to use whatever the most powerful attack that you can get away with basically 100% of the time in normal gameplay. I don't really give a poo poo that Cybuster doesn't have Caloric Missiles because Hi Familiar does the exact same thing from a functionality standpoint. There are a variety of ways around this, such as giving attacks status effects and map manipulation effects(SRW Neo!!!!!), but they basically have abandoned doing this in normal SRW games aside from a few holdouts like Sun Attack having Armor Down. You can make an argument that it makes the units more visually interesting, but a lot of people I see making the "Super Two Attacks Wars" arguments are extremely angry about a lot of units in X having Full Weapons Combination style attacks instead of having separate discrete attacks for every weapon on their suit, so...
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Apr 3, 2018 03:18
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Combattler and Voltes with 500 pages of almost identical attacks that don't matter was always awful. I'd rather the time and effort and budget be spent on making a smaller amount of moves look really good, with all of them having a use. Saying that though I do love every single move the Zeta has, but you could probably drop the grenade launcher. MX had a bunch of attacks where it would be an attack that the unit followed up/lead into with vulcans or grenades or something which gave all the attacks a little extra pizzazz, especially the more basic ones like a beam rifle or saber.
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Apr 3, 2018 03:56
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Kanos posted:What, exactly, makes a unit with a bunch of redundant attacks you never use "more fun"? If you have a unit with attacks that cover redundant ranges, you're going to use whatever the most powerful attack that you can get away with basically 100% of the time in normal gameplay. I don't really give a poo poo that Cybuster doesn't have Caloric Missiles because Hi Familiar does the exact same thing from a functionality standpoint. There are a variety of ways around this, such as giving attacks status effects and map manipulation effects(SRW Neo!!!!!), but they basically have abandoned doing this in normal SRW games aside from a few holdouts like Sun Attack having Armor Down. You're really okay with the Kabakali having its Beam Saber animation be predominantly using its Beam Chakrams? Those two weapons shouldn't even have the same ranges yet they stuck them together in the same attack anyway. They shouldn't even have the same power output. Kabakali could have had the Chakrams as a more costly but more powerful attack, same with the G-Lucifer and the Skirt Funnels/Moonlight Butterfly. Those weapons have no business being in the same animation together and it just makes the unit look lame and boring by only having two attacks. I'm not saying we should go back to Alpha Gaiden where super robots have two pages of redundant poo poo, but having units have just 1 attack for melee and 1 for ranged is going too far in streamlining their movesets. It's loving boring. The loving JEGAN (which is what they shoved Kerbes into in lieu of his canon unit or even giving the player a Cait Sith) has more move variety than most of the G-Reco newcomers, and that's pathetic. The Moran is by far the worst example of lazy newcomer unit. Beam Rifle. That's it. It doesn't even have its Beam Katana and has no post-movement attack as a result. They didn't even try to make it a usable unit. Imagine if the Nu Gundam only had two attacks, Beam Saber and a Beam Rifle animation that also uses the funnels. Do you think that's what fans would like to see from it? Ryas fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 04:30
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Ryas posted:You're really okay with the Kabakali having its Beam Saber animation be predominantly using its Beam Chakrams? Those two weapons shouldn't even have the same ranges yet they stuck them together in the same attack anyway. They shouldn't even have the same power output. Kabakali could have had the Chakrams as a more costly but more powerful attack, same with the G-Lucifer and the Skirt Funnels/Moonlight Butterfly. Those weapons have no business being in the same animation together and it just makes the unit look lame and boring by only having two attacks. I'm not saying we should go back to Alpha Gaiden where super robots have two pages of redundant poo poo, but having units have just 1 attack for melee and 1 for ranged is going too far in streamlining their movesets. It's loving boring. The loving JEGAN (which is what they shoved Kerbes into in lieu of his canon unit or even giving the player a Cait Sith) has more move variety than most of the G-Reco newcomers, and that's pathetic. The Moran is by far the worst example of lazy newcomer unit. Beam Rifle. That's it. It doesn't even have its Beam Katana and has no post-movement attack as a result. They didn't even try to make it a usable unit. I'm an ENORMOUS Mask fan and I love his mobile suits to death, and no, I'm not really bothered that the Kabakali uses its beam chakrams in the same animation as its beam saber, because having them be discrete attacks is not in and of itself inherently valuable and it's pretty common in SRW choreography to have attacks be finished by a melee assault of some nature. If the Kabakali had Beam Shotgun(1-5), Beam Saber(1 P), and Beam Chakram(2-4 P 40 EN), you'd just use the goddamn Chakram all the time except if someone was attacking you at range 5 or range 1. You're either being incredibly disingenuous or you're entirely focused on number of attacks being the only thing that matters. To say that the Jegan in SRW X has more "variety" than the G-Reco newcomers is a joke, given that the Jegan in X's entire attack list is vulcans, beam saber, and beam rifle, and all of them have extremely basic animations. I'm totally fine with units having only two or three attacks if the unit is usable and those attacks are visually pleasing. The Moran is really bad, but I'm frankly not surprised because it even being a playable unit at all is pretty baffling to me. The Nu Gundam honestly could survive attack pruning. You don't need head vulcans as a discrete attack ever and they could be worked into the beam saber, the bazooka is entirely redundant with the funnels and could be worked into the beam rifle animation, and we don't really need two separate All Out Attacks at all. That would leave you with a unit with four attacks: Beam Rifle(post movement ranged option), Beam Saber(more powerful post movement option), Fin Funnel(non post movement sniping option), and All Out Attack(extremely limited use finisher). Even this is probably a little much from a gameplay standpoint but the Nu Gundam generally gets a lot of excess love due to its iconic status.
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Apr 3, 2018 05:48
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I think if you hang about in certain parts of the interwebs, the stuff said about the SRW series makes it sound like Idea Factory tier shovelware, but I feel there might be legitimate complaints involving the time cycles for these things. I've took a very quick skim on the release dates but basically - I don't think the "mainline series" (loosely defined, but basically the SRW games with the budget and voice acting) and its dev team were forced into 1 year cycles back in the past. I would pin down the start of that to Z2, which was generally seen as beginning of the decline anyway. Alpha 2 -> 3 took 2 years for example, and going from 3 to Z1 was 3 years. Z1 being used as an example here because it was considered the high point of the series to many but even the handhelds teams took 2 years if they wanted to make huge leaps, such as the sprite changes going from D to J / W to K (I know that last one was kind of a bomb but it technically didn't reuse any sprites from the game preceding it) (And the "What, are they reusing 75% of the cast again" issue wasn't quite as obvious back then because we usually went back and forth between the "mainline" and "portables" - even though looking at something like the GBA output, there's a whole lot of recycling going on.) Anyway I typed all that from a consumer perspective, I guess where I think it would have been really great for these recent games to get a couple months more in the oven to really polish it nice and good. But inside, I kinda know from the business perspective - that the polish won't really bring much more customers/money compared to the effort involved, so they're probably not going to do it. C'est La Vie.
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Apr 3, 2018 06:48
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Davzz posted:Alpha 2 -> 3 took 2 years for example, and going from 3 to Z1 was 3 years. That's not exactly the most fair characterization because they released MX in between Alpha 2 and Alpha 3. Alpha 2 came out March 2003. MX came out May 2004. Alpha 3 came out July 2005. So it's about a 14 month gap between console releases there. Before that was Impact in March 2002, and Alpha Gaiden in March 2001, as well as Alpha in May 2000. That's just mainline console releases, not even counting portable titles. If anything, the 2-year gap between Alpha 3 in 2005 and Original Generations in 2007 is the abnormality. Z1 just resumed the annual cycle by coming out in 2008. There was a considerable gap between Z1 and Z2 as well, and other than that, I'd say the majority of console releases have been an annual thing. Hokuto fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 07:15
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This is part of why I feel SRW rosters should limit themselves to 3 Real Robot series max unless they're reusing assets from a previous game, or it's an entry that only has a couple units like War In The Pocket or Macross Plus, would allow them to better distribute resources on making units(meanwhile with Super Robot series it's rare to have more than 3 to 5 playable units so it's less of a problem)
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Apr 3, 2018 07:27
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That reminds me but SRW has trained us to have very counter-intuitive expectations regarding debuts - we expect them to do as much as they possibly can during their first outing and then slowly whittle away into "Main Characters Only", which feels vaguely backwards.Hokuto posted:If anything, the 2-year gap between Alpha 3 in 2005 and Original Generations in 2007 is the abnormality. Z1 just resumed the annual cycle by coming out in 2008. There was a considerable gap between Z1 and Z2 as well, and other than that, I'd say the majority of console releases have been an annual thing. Also I always thought OG had a completely separate team dedicated to it.
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Apr 3, 2018 07:45
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Oh, I was using this list on Wikipedia for reference. Hope that helps!
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Apr 3, 2018 07:50
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Davzz posted:That reminds me but SRW has trained us to have very counter-intuitive expectations regarding debuts - we expect them to do as much as they possibly can during their first outing and then slowly whittle away into "Main Characters Only", which feels vaguely backwards. I wouldn't be surprised if this pattern started due at least partially because of how negatively Shin SRW was received apparently back in the day, with one of the bigger complaints being how Wing was used in it's debut game as basically being a glorified Easter Egg
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Apr 3, 2018 07:57
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Samurai Sanders posted:Does Buddy Complex ever become anything but a straight generic real robot anime but with a vaguely super robotty mind link kind of thing?
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Apr 3, 2018 08:14
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I'm finally doing the thing I said I was going to do for a long time and digging into Alpha 2, and while I'm only a few stages in it's just good fun so far. The last one I got to really sit down and play was Z2.2 so it's nice to get back into this.
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Apr 3, 2018 08:23
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Samurai Sanders posted:Does Buddy Complex ever become anything but a straight generic real robot anime but with a vaguely super robotty mind link kind of thing? It is an extremely by the numbers predictable show that hits all the standard mecha plot beats until the end, at which point it does something pretty cool and unique related to time travel. The movie, which is a sequel/conclusion, does even funnier/better things with time travel, but can't really be watched on its own and make sense because it's a sequel/conclusion instead of a compilation or standalone. It's a very competently executed show. It's pretty generic but it does everything at least reasonably well and manages to look good and maintain decent production values all the way through. I liked it quite a lot even if it's not the most unique show you'll ever watch.
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Apr 3, 2018 09:49
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drrockso20 posted:I wouldn't be surprised if this pattern started due at least partially because of how negatively Shin SRW was received apparently back in the day, with one of the bigger complaints being how Wing was used in it's debut game as basically being a glorified Easter Egg Okay, I need details, how did that happen?
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Apr 3, 2018 15:57
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Kanos posted:The Nu Gundam honestly could survive attack pruning. You don't need head vulcans as a discrete attack ever and they could be worked into the beam saber, the bazooka is entirely redundant with the funnels and could be worked into the beam rifle animation, and we don't really need two separate All Out Attacks at all. That would leave you with a unit with four attacks: Beam Rifle(post movement ranged option), Beam Saber(more powerful post movement option), Fin Funnel(non post movement sniping option), and All Out Attack(extremely limited use finisher). Even this is probably a little much from a gameplay standpoint but the Nu Gundam generally gets a lot of excess love due to its iconic status. Vulcan's exist purely to do 0 damage so you can get as many pre-fight dialogues as possible. Otherwise put them in as part of other attacks! Either as the rudest dynamic kill or as rad combined arms attacks!
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Apr 3, 2018 16:28
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EthanSteele posted:Vulcan's exist purely to do 0 damage so you can get as many pre-fight dialogues as possible. Otherwise put them in as part of other attacks! Either as the rudest dynamic kill or as rad combined arms attacks! If they gave each Vulcans attack a dynamic kill if actually be more inclined to use them to finish off more maximum back hand slapping.
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Apr 3, 2018 16:57
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Vulcans do reduce mobility which is occasionally useful in the early game but we have Freeze Bullets for that in V/X, so. e: goddammit I need to get back to playing NEO.
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Apr 3, 2018 17:12
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Vulcans exist so you can slowly push a stage boss' HP down to just before the point where they will retreat as close and safely as possible so you can get that SR point.
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Apr 3, 2018 17:20
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When you boil it down to the essentials of SRW design, most units only really have four weapons: Spammable ranged, spammable melee, finisher ranged, finisher melee. Usually the first two use ammo and the latter two energy. MAPWs are the optional fifth slot. The overwhelming majority of the time, when a robot has more than these 4 or 5 weapons, some of them are largely extraneous and don't matter. This is an accidental consequence of most SRW's boring approach to weapon design, for the most part. Actually committing to this idea and giving every single unit 4 or 5 weapons would make the units interchangeable and a lot less interesting to play with. What they really should do is give every other weapon strong status conditions or other special abilities (like the knockback from NEO) to make them worth using.
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Apr 3, 2018 17:55
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they should just rip off fantasy maiden wars' gameplay then again only like six characters have more than 4-5 weapons but at least a character's weapons usually have different uses
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Apr 3, 2018 18:20
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More status effects (like Neo) is definitely a thing that would improve the formula (like Neo). Gimme more Neo.
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Apr 3, 2018 18:31
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How early (or late) does the Hi-nu show up?
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Apr 3, 2018 18:39
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Just. Make Neo again. Lamune's entire gimmick is collecting attacks like Mega Man and I'm pretty sure I've legitimately used them all.
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Apr 3, 2018 18:43
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Blaze Dragon posted:Okay, I need details, how did that happen? I'll have to do some digging, but to TLDR it, Shin is an extremely weird game on every level, among other things it's the only proper SRW game(and not a spinoff like Real Robot Regiment) to not use the SD style at all
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Apr 3, 2018 21:02
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Blaze Dragon posted:Okay, I need details, how did that happen? I haven't personally played Shin SRW, but in the first couple of games featuring Wing(Shin SRW had it in an extremely limited capacity IIRC, I think it was Wing Gundam only), the Wing units were secret units that had to be convinced. In SRW F Final, the second game to have Wing and IIRC the first one to actually have the whole cast, you had to go through a fairly convoluted nested convince chain to get the Wing boys. Basically, it worked like this: on stage 4 Quatre would show up as a neutral unit and you'd need to convince him with Amuro or Kamille so he'd join you. On stage 8, Duo would show up as a neutral unit and you'd need to convince him with Quatre so he would join you. On stage 13 Trowa would show up as a neutral unit and you'd need to convince him with Quatre so he'd join you. Then on stage 14, Heero appears as a neutral unit and you need both Duo and Trowa to convince him to recruit him. If you miss any of these steps, you don't get another opportunity until the 30s, where you had to fulfill another secret condition and if you didn't do it you just never got the Wing boys at all. My first time through FF I killed all the enemies on Quatre's appearance stage before Quatre showed up, which meant the stage ended before Quatre appeared and I didn't get an opportunity to recruit him, which meant I couldn't get any of the Wing boys until basically the end of the game. Kanos fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 21:13
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