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rudecyrus posted:I'd watch that. Finally, someone gets the joke.
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Apr 3, 2018 07:23
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:new vegas is stupid good. i kinda obsessively played that game for a few months pursuing all the endings and doing everything in the game just because the world hooked me so well. it was so well-constructed narratively and in terms of world building compared with everything bethesda has done post-morrowind. i'd kill for obsidian to develop the next elder scrolls game. I think he ended up deleting the tweet, and I can't currently find any kind of archive of it, but Jason Schreier tweeted something a while back about how the devs at Bethesda are envious or contemptuous of the praise Obsidian got for New Vegas compared to their work on Fallout 3 & 4. Bakeneko posted:At least Fallout 3 and 4 allow you to completely remake your character after the tutorial, so you can just save right before that point and go back there whenever you want to start a new game. It’s a neat little thing that a lot of games would benefit from having. "All Musou games have you..." Actually, that's not fair, because I like Musou games too. (At least the two that I've really played) khwarezm posted:One thing I find, I hate when the fallout games get too scifi, and it's something that annoyed me in FO4. The whole synths and Institute thing as the main plot didn't sit well with me since they felt like Bethesda was just throwing in ever more extravagant sci-fi elements without regard for the post apocalyptic core of the series. It's like they wanted to tell a kind of blade runner-esque story but didn't want to go through the trouble of making a new game so might as well put it in the fallout games right? With Fallout 4, it feels like they looked at Fallout 3 and said, 'Hey people really like the Replicated Man quest. Let's just do that, but the whole game!' and never wondered if it fit with the theme of the other games. I guess there's also a more extended reference to it with one of the audio notes you find, which makes me think Bethesda had the concept incubating for a long time, yet still didn't manage Old World Blues was sort of similar in that it did the whole 'secret super-science base' thing, but it felt more appropriate in how it was set up. Inspector Gesicht posted:Fallout 4 suffers from diminishing returns since it's the fifth Gamebryo starting from Oblivion. It's a marginal improvement on prior titles but it's not innovative at all. You can pick up any object you find but that fluff doesn't cut it anymore. You can build your own house, at the expense of there being few towns in the game and there being no real purpose to the building system. I was thinking about this the other day, and I think part of it is that the Fallout games have always given you some kind story crux they expected you to adhere to. If you look at the Elder Scrolls series, you're not really given any baseline for your character (their background, skillset, etc.). Daggerfall and Morrowind set you up with some minor objectives, but you're free to ignore them and go do guild quests or something (Daggerfall is also unique in that it's the only one where you don't start as a prisoner). Oblivion threw you into the plot from the get-go, but you could ignore once you were free from the sewers, and you weren't a 'chosen one' really, you were more a steward to Martin, who basically beats the final boss. Skyrim broke it with you being the Dragonborn (and I think it's largely unavoidable that will happen, since I think one of the Civil War quests and maybe a few other sidequest require you to make progress in the main story). For the most part, though, you can sort of make your own story free of the main narrative. In the Fallout games, though, that's not really the case. Fallout 1 started you out searching for the water chip, and you had a 150 day limit to do so, otherwise, the game would end. Fallout 2 defined you as the 'Chosen One' who needed to seek out the GECK to save Arroyo. Even Fallout New Vegas is built around you seeking out who shot you in the head, and your involvement with the factions of New Vegas. I don't bring this to really try and defend the main story in 3 and 4, but if you're going by the logic of "Why should I care about these people? Why can't I just go off and do my own thing?" Fallout 1 and 2 sort of do the same thing where you're tasked to save people you don't really know anything about. Granted, they don't push the whole "Your family member died/disappeared, and this is where you should be sad" aspect, but I think they're set up to where you're still expected to go along with the main story beats.
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Apr 3, 2018 10:32
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Seeing your partner killed and your son kidnapped right in front of you isn't a premise that lends itself to meandering across the countryside. It'd be one thing if the game started months or years after that incident (you know what I mean) but the writing, voice acting and mechanics don't reflect the fact that the PC is going through unimaginably emotional trauma. In Fallout 3 you've following your Dad, who is presumably pretty capable and who left on his own terms, and so the quest doesn't quite have the same urgency. Similarly the previous two games and New Vegas have fairly open-ended goals and don't present a situation where (nominally) every minute counts. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 10:56
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Seeing your partner killed and your son kidnapped right in front of you isn't a premise that lends itself to meandering across the countryside. It'd be one thing if the game started months or years after that incident (you know what I mean) but the writing, voice acting and mechanics don't reflect the fact that the PC is going through unimaginably emotional trauma. It also goes to great lengths to try and paint you as a good upstanding person in Fallout 4. Instead of the cannibalistic maniac wielding a flaming bayonet most players are.
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Apr 3, 2018 11:11
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It also goes to great lengths to try and paint you as a good upstanding person in Fallout 4. I'll have you know in New Vegas I was merely a wandering Lee van Cleef.
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Apr 3, 2018 11:32
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New Vegas starts with you getting robbed and murdered and everyone you talk to acts like your motive is tracking down Benny for revenge. I think that's a pretty provocative opening and "goal"? Not any weaker than your partner dying and child being abducted. But, no matter how motivated you are at first, you get overwhelmed by all the things to do or meeting an awesome crazy Irish girl and then forget all about your son or whatever else you were obsessed with in the first hour. Of course, for New Vegas, I liked Benny so I didn't track him down to kill him. I just wanted to know why the gently caress this all happened to me. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 11:56
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The biggest problem with Fallout 4’s story wasn’t how it started- it was how it ended. Particularly in how it forces you to either blow up the Institute or join it no matter what you do. There’s no option to take it over and use it as a base for the Minutemen, or to free the synths and give control of it to them, or to convince Shaun to change his mind about anything. That last one is especially damning because the very first game gave you the ability to reason with the main villain, and in FO4 the family connection seems to be inviting that option but it’s just not possible.
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Apr 3, 2018 12:15
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NikkolasKing posted:New Vegas starts with you getting robbed and murdered and everyone you talk to acts like your motive is tracking down Benny for revenge. I think that's a pretty provocative opening and "goal"? Not any weaker than your partner dying and child being abducted. The problem between that and Fallout 4 is a difference in overall tone; New Vegas starts and ends at "you got shot in the head, didn't die, the guy that did it is New Vegas, have fun". Fallout 4, in contrast, goes to great lengths to establish your character as some wholly decent american soldier who did his time/was a lawyer, settled with a family, and is a fine upstanding person of moral fiber. Even when you're setting people on fire by the dozen just so you can take their stuff.
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Apr 3, 2018 12:23
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Fallout 4 spends more of it's opening making you care for your home than it does Shaun. It then destroys it in a such a way that you can't even get revenge, at least in 3 you could kill the overseer after you get cast out. In the older Fallouts you are working to save your community not any single specific person, while the Bethesda games kill off your community and try to get you to care about some underdeveloped character that's your blank slate PC are supposed to care about and vice versa. Even New Vegas has you care about the area if revenge isn't your thing. Since revenge can easily be served cold it's a really decent objective that you can put off forever if you want to.
Hel fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 12:40
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The problem between that and Fallout 4 is a difference in overall tone; New Vegas starts and ends at "you got shot in the head, didn't die, the guy that did it is New Vegas, have fun". Fallout 4, in contrast, goes to great lengths to establish your character as some wholly decent american soldier who did his time/was a lawyer, settled with a family, and is a fine upstanding person of moral fiber. Even when you're setting people on fire by the dozen just so you can take their stuff. That's true. NV gives the Courier minimal backstory and characterization, sort of like a TES game. FO4 really tried to set up the character of the Sole Survivor. And it did a very bad job at it. I never got very far in FO4, it seemed to have a lovely copy of BioWare's Dialogue Wheel that didn't really allow for any input from me. Options were always: Yes, No, Sarcasm and Give Me Money. Hel posted:Fallout 4 spends more of it's opening making you care for your home than it does Shaun. It then destroys it in a such a way that you can't even get revenge, at least in 3 you could kill the overseer after you get cast out. I killed the Overseer before I even left the Vault. Seemed like a natural thing to do? Also killed Butch, although that was more a case of me panicking. FO3 was the first RPG I had ever played like this and I failed to save his mom. I figured he would attack me after I hosed up so I took preemptive measures and killed him.
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Apr 3, 2018 13:02
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NikkolasKing posted:I never got very far in FO4, it seemed to have a poo poo copy of BioWare's Dialogue Wheel that didn't really allow for any input from me. Optons were always: Yes, No, Sarcasm and Give Me Money.
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Apr 3, 2018 13:03
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When you use the "Show me what the choices actually say" mod, you also get to see that a whole lot of dialogue ends on Yes - Sarcastic Yes - Tell Me More (Implied Yes) - Maybe, with SHAUN? interspersed. That and like the Bioware games it so shamelessly yanked the talky radial from, there are some choices that sound innocuous as a short descriptor, but then your guy ends up blurting out some psycho poo poo instead.
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Apr 3, 2018 13:33
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NikkolasKing posted:I never got very far in FO4, it seemed to have a lovely copy of BioWare's Dialogue Wheel that didn't really allow for any input from me. Options were always: Yes, No, Sarcasm and Give Me Money. Don't forget the always classic HATE NEWSPAPERS
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Apr 3, 2018 13:46
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Yardbomb posted:When you use the "Show me what the choices actually say" mod, you also get to see that a whole lot of dialogue ends on Yes - Sarcastic Yes - Tell Me More (Implied Yes) - Maybe, with SHAUN? interspersed. That and like the Bioware games it so shamelessly yanked the talky radial from, there are some choices that sound innocuous as a short descriptor, but then your guy ends up blurting out some psycho poo poo instead. Yeah there was nothing quite as jarring in a game I've played as choosing Sarcasm and getting an exasperated I'LL loving KILL YOU MAN! DAI has a lot worth criticizing but I do really like how they gave your character the chance to learn different subjects to open up dialogue with certain people. It could be done better, like the FO Classic method of presenting the full dialogue choices and not telling you what is different based on what you know, but it's a little bit more than FO4.
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Apr 3, 2018 14:04
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Trojan Kaiju posted:Yeah there was nothing quite as jarring in a game I've played as choosing Sarcasm and getting an exasperated I'LL loving KILL YOU MAN! I wasn't the biggest fan of Inquisition but it undoubtedly has the best implementation of the dialogue wheel to date with by far the greatest variety of choices for characterizing your PC and discussing matters with other people.
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Apr 3, 2018 14:15
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NikkolasKing posted:I wasn't the biggest fan of Inquisition but it undoubtedly has the best implementation of the dialogue wheel to date with by far the greatest variety of choices for characterizing your PC and discussing matters with other people. It's probably the best we're getting while keeping voiced main characters and a reasonable budget.
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Apr 3, 2018 14:17
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Inquisition probably ended up being my favorite 'AAA' RPG for a while, I'm a sucker for Bioware junk and that felt like their best effort in a while.
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Apr 3, 2018 14:27
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I'm really not a fan of the shift to a voiced protagonist for all sorts of reasons and I suspect it's one of those things where when they do it there's no going back for the rest of the series, a bit like moving away from isometric to typical first/third person viewpoint (though I don't have much issue with that).
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Apr 3, 2018 14:28
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Trojan Kaiju posted:Yeah there was nothing quite as jarring in a game I've played as choosing Sarcasm and getting an exasperated I'LL loving KILL YOU MAN! I get why few RPGs bother because it's a ton of work and a lot of players will complain about it anyway, but they need to start locking out more content including dialogue with party-members if you just rote select every single dialogue option without thinking about it or do stupid/bad poo poo characters agree with. Until that becomes more prevalent all these kinds of systems like Bethesda and Bioware have with reactivity and information-gathering is just brainless tedium unless you're really interested in the characters (which I rarely am because Bethesda and Bioware). There's a little bit of it in these games but not very much at all, at least in Inquisition - I mostly gave up on Bethesda games after Skyrim so not really an expert on FO4. E: Specifically for Inquisition, you do have to pick the right options in certain situations if you want to romance a character but that often doesn't really change the dialogue much anyway, just their attitude towards your character. Outside of that, most of the time you can just exhaust the list of topics with any NPC and move on safe in the knowledge that you missed nothing. Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 14:30
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khwarezm posted:I'm really not a fan of the shift to a voiced protagonist for all sorts of reasons and I suspect it's one of those things where when they do it there's no going back for the rest of the series, a bit like moving away from isometric to typical first/third person viewpoint (though I don't have much issue with that). The thing is if you're gonna keep pushing voiced protags, you need a super tight control on what the rest of the game's gonna be. FO4 was scatterbrained as hell in it's implementation, like only having one voice for male or female for instance sucked, even moreso since it was the most whitebread dude voice they could find, despite the big variance possible in your character, which among the other myriad of character problems hurt the RP aspect of the RPG even more. Again in FO4, they cut back on character variation quite a bit thanks to the always-voiced-MC too, like aside from pointless slaughter which might as well be treated as out of character actions by the world/story, they made it harder to be much of a bad guy because John and Jane voices weren't allowed to inflect except in the most random and out of place circumstances, because they always needed to be one size fits all voice.
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Apr 3, 2018 14:41
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Witcher 3 has that in a few instances. It keeps track of which dialogue options you chose and then secondary options might change depending in the order you picked them in. One that immediately jumps out is if you don't ask yen how she's feeling right away she'll complain and if you only then ask her how she's doing she'll respond with sarcasm rather than empathy like if you'd chosen that option first.
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Apr 3, 2018 14:48
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Linear Zoetrope posted:I mean, both nostalgiacritic.com and thenostalgiacritic.com are totally unregistered and it'd be a real shame if they just happened to redirect to that document. Just sayin'. Just saying... https://twitter.com/@thenostalgiacritic
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Apr 3, 2018 14:52
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Moatman posted:Uh, so does anyone know who the "high profile producer" who was grooming anon 1 was? Like, that seems like it might be important to know Or you could respect the anonymity of the victim, and the wishes of both anon and the document makers to exclude that name, and not be a curious creep.
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Apr 3, 2018 14:59
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I think I had read that certain options were cut out of FO4, like making peace with all factions? Because as it is in FO4, you have to piss someone off to finish the story, whether it is the Institute, Brotherhood, Minutemen, or Railroad.
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Apr 3, 2018 14:59
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SatansBestBuddy posted:It's not specifically the word "criticism", it's the translation of "why are you complaining now, that does nothing but make us look bad, you shouldn't have bothered speaking up at all" I love how in their minds, it's just to make CA look bad. Not: 1) CA's own actions make them look bad 2) As a way to educate future producers about the bad behavior 3) To bring to light the fact that many, many avenues of remediation were attempted already, so this is the END of the long chain of events, not the only chain in-- umm-- a single chain. SatansBestBuddy posted:yeah no gently caress off A+
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Apr 3, 2018 15:02
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Rap Critic confirms he's left CA, was going to just part ways, but the info the document documented, and non-apology from CA, have sincerely pissed him off: https://twitter.com/itstherapcritic/status/981155365931962369
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Apr 3, 2018 15:06
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FlamingLiberal posted:I think I had read that certain options were cut out of FO4, like making peace with all factions? Because as it is in FO4, you have to piss someone off to finish the story, whether it is the Institute, Brotherhood, Minutemen, or Railroad. The main game supports a peace option on its own so it's especially dumb that you can't take it. Your son literally GIVES you the Institute! After that there is no reason for any continued fighting. Just tell the others "I got this, this idiot is giving me the keys.
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Apr 3, 2018 15:11
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But Tony *WARNED* them, he loving WARNED them-- in between tweets calling Allison a hysterical female with a chip on her shoulder. Why didn't they listed to me, TONY, their #1 buddy-bro friend dude, who they totally don't mock behind close doors and call me a asskis-- bleh, sorry just a second. {picks a brown fleck out from between his teeth a flicks it away}-- sorry, nugget leftover from the last rimjob session-- anyways, they totally don't call me an asskisser. I guess this means I'll have to take a MORAL and DECISIVE stance, now that I've seen the light!  I might need to spend another few months "thinking" about this, for "reasons" that have nothing to do with being in the 10th Anniversary Movie.
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Apr 3, 2018 15:17
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FlamingLiberal posted:I think I had read that certain options were cut out of FO4, like making peace with all factions? Because as it is in FO4, you have to piss someone off to finish the story, whether it is the Institute, Brotherhood, Minutemen, or Railroad. There is in fact a lot of cut story and side story stuff, which once people found them were apparently pretty easy to put back in, like they were set up, voiced and everything but Bethesda just kind of yanked them I guess? The CHOICES would've just melted people's brains I guess.
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Apr 3, 2018 15:21
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My fave bit in FO4 was when I was inadvertently working for the raiders in Nuka World. I wandered in some place that looked like it escaped from a Hellraiser film - heard some guy whimpering in pain and fear while chained to a wall, walked uo to him and wanted to start a dialogue with him and my Avatar said: "Hi there!" like the happiesr motherfucker in candytown and I just plain gave up. I really /really/ hate that game. Anyway - Im genuinely suprised that the word 'defamation' isnt floating around. Is that even an option for Michaud? Will any action at all beyond that non-apology happen? Taking bets here! KayTee fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 15:21
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lornekates posted:I love how in their minds, it's just to make CA look bad. Not: Not surprising, since from all the stories I've heard, dudes seem to have genuine trouble with the idea that other people are humans with lives and minds of their own, outside of whatever the CA three want.
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Apr 3, 2018 15:31
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What hurts FO4 the most is the inconsistency. Like, there's bad writing, but at least bad writing can respect the lore and world-building. FO4 suffers from having a playable character that isn't supposed to know about the outside world 200 years after the bombs dropped, but if you don't talk to anyone or fight anything and talk to someone further into the game, your character is just instantly wise about the goings-on of the Commonwealth. It definitely has its moments, like with Deacon and finding Nick Valentine before you get into Diamond City, but the story is just Bethesda holding your hand and showing all the cool setpieces to you and not letting you explore them to your leisure. Contrast this with New Vegas, where you have pretty much all the freedom in the world, your character already existed and lived in the post-apocalypse for their whole life, and the world actually reacts to YOU instead of the other way around.
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Apr 3, 2018 15:35
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Have the old Fallout purist crowd given up labeling FO3 as the worst video game in history then? Is FO4 seen as worse?
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Apr 3, 2018 15:49
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HBomb's incredible and thorough 90-ish minute is the longest takedown of FO3 I've seen. I swear I saw one for FO4 that was at least 3 hours long and was just as thorough, and yet might have still missed some things? I can't find it now, but I'm sure it was linked here at some point or other.
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Apr 3, 2018 15:57
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Dragonatrix posted:HBomb's incredible and thorough 90-ish minute is the longest takedown of FO3 I've seen. Sounds like Joseph Anderson, he did two FO4 reviews and one of them is two hours and a half. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A34poZ6paGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVyjRhSX92E Edit: Holy poo poo, one of the recommended videos led me to a 5 hour long retrospective on Oblivion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp4-9G47uF0 Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 16:03
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NikkolasKing posted:Have the old Fallout purist crowd given up labeling FO3 as the worst video game in history then? Is FO4 seen as worse? I'd say that FO3 is the worst because FO4's exploration and gameplay improvements make it okay.
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Apr 3, 2018 16:15
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NikkolasKing posted:Have the old Fallout purist crowd given up labeling FO3 as the worst video game in history then? Is FO4 seen as worse? Fallout 3 and 4 aren’t very good games on their own merits even without the specter of the old games hanging over them, sorry OP. You can like a game and still recognize that it’s objectively kind of broken and bad in many respects. I have ungodly amounts of time logged playing Skyrim and it has many of the same problems as the Bethesda Fallout games.
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Apr 3, 2018 16:17
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Lightning Knight posted:Fallout 3 and 4 aren’t very good games on their own merits even without the specter of the old games hanging over them, sorry OP. Well I don't think Fallout 3 is a bad game? Sorry. Same for Skyrim. They exist to be explored and if you enjoy exploring them, they have succeeded at their entire reason for being. Neither is close to perfect, and I can think of a lot of ways I'd improve them, but they delivered everything I wanted in an RPG. Namely roleplaying in a cool fictional world. And I just want to sate that I think New Vegas is a better game than 3 in a lot of ways. But there's something about the Capital Wasteland - the environmental storytelling in it, the constant random encounters, etc. - that made me love it to this day. In New Vegas you just stroll on down the road to New Vegas and everything is mostly fine. In 3, you make a wrong turn and wind up in an Enclave camp with a Deathclaw and then also a Giant Radscorpion wanders into the fray. That was literally my first ever encounter with a Deathclaw. It's a cherished gaming memory for me and NV has nothing really like it. (I mostly remember story stuff for NV) NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 16:29
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Exploring in fallout 4 is a thankless task because there is never anything to find
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Apr 3, 2018 16:36
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Electronico6 posted:Sounds like Joseph Anderson, he did two FO4 reviews and one of them is two hours and a half. Yeah, that's probably it. I think I must've misremembered the length a bit; it's been a while since I last really even thought about 'em.
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Apr 3, 2018 16:48
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