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Lid posted:New hero is Patches the Pirate, his q w and e are just illidans the hunt. no, that would be his heroic, so it could be on the RRRRRRRRRRR key i'm not sorry -- New hero is Grim Patron: Has extremely low health, but everytime he's hit and doesn't die, he spawns a new character and controls like The Lost Vikings. Heroic is dogpile: Every character jumps from where they are onto one target, damage+stunned-time multiplied by the number of characters Nybble fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 21:07
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Nybble posted:no, that would be his heroic, so it could be on the RRRRRRRRRRR key I could get behind the idea of a smelly dwarf version of a zergling swarm.
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Apr 4, 2018 21:11
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Orthodox Rabbit posted:I could get behind the idea of a smelly dwarf version of a zergling swarm. I always loved this idea until someone pointed out the quest stack dilemma. I already get excited stacking off Samuro, a six-zergling pile of a hero would complete convection in less than a minute.
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Apr 4, 2018 21:16
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New hero should be Minion. He cannot be distinguished from a regular minion by the enemy team. [Q] Minions! Attack! // All minions within range gain +10 range and attack your target [W] Minions! Gather! // All minions within range permanently follow you [E] Minions! Camps! // All minions within range leave the lane to attack camps [R] Minions! To the Core! // All minions instantly teleport to core
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Apr 4, 2018 21:17
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Orthodox Rabbit posted:Once they bump down fenix's numbers I think he'll be fine. His kit doesn't really seem busted to me. His kit has the problem of being a little too all around good. Self peel/solid damage with Q, W has no downsides (no mana management in general) and tons of talent support, E has its cast time but is also a disjoint and a full zero-tell blink. If you don't play like an idiot, you can make favorable trades thanks to his shield, and even then you can do a lot just with long range W shots. And between those and Q he has zero issues with waveclear. He definitely has some counters and isn't Maiev bonkers tier, but his overall design seems a bit generous to me. 
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 21:22
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Yeah Fenix will be fine with tuned numbers. Which makes it more baffling they haven’t done it yet. Maiev is still a bit tough because of her kit. Why they needed to give her the invulnerable jump thing is beyond me.
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Apr 4, 2018 21:22
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Lid posted:New hero is Patches the Pirate, his q w and e are just illidans the hunt. Why haven't they done a brawl that's just "all abilities have 1/10 normal cooldowns"  appropriatemetaphor posted:New hero should be Minion. He cannot be distinguished from a regular minion by the enemy team. Deal, but only if, when you cast the abilities, Carbot gives the commands 
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Apr 4, 2018 21:23
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John Murdoch posted:and a full zero-tell blink The teeniest nit-pick: you can tell the direction he will teleport by looking at his inner eye/laser's orientation when he phases out  Doesn't tell you how far he's teleporting, and only useful if you're already in the top 0.1% skill-wise, but still.
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Apr 4, 2018 21:25
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John Murdoch posted:His kit has the problem of being a little too all around good. Self peel/solid damage with Q, W has no downsides (no mana management in general) and tons of talent support, E has its cast time but is also a disjoint and a full zero-tell blink. If you don't play like an idiot, you can make favorable trades thanks to his shield, and even then you can do a lot just with long range W shots. And between those and Q he has zero issues with waveclear. He's basically the modern designed version of Raynor. I think with some numbers nerfs and maybe some other small fine tuning he'd be in a solid spot. He's at least got some good knobs they can fiddle with for small kit changes. Like you can't do much about tracers blinks but with fenix you can make his teleport take longer to activate or some such.
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Apr 4, 2018 21:31
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The next hero is Vol'jin. At level 10 he dies and is replaced by Sylvanas for the rest of the match.
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Apr 4, 2018 21:33
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Raynor trait: 30 percent healing, 30 second cooldown Fenix trait: 40 percent healing, 5 second cooldown
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Apr 4, 2018 21:36
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No Wave posted:Raynor trait: 30 percent healing, 30 second cooldown Raynor needs a bare-metal rework at this point. There is literally nothing he does that is remarkable in any way.
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Apr 4, 2018 21:58
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It's important to the overall health of the game that raynor is terrible and does nothing to help out new players with their New Player Experience - HOTS Blizzard team
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Apr 4, 2018 22:14
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Dietrich posted:Raynor needs a bare-metal rework at this point. There is literally nothing he does that is remarkable in any way. Yeah, as much as I love giving them some pepper, seeing it spelled out in the 40%/5 seconds to 30%/30 seconds regard, combined with all the other poo poo Fenix can do...like, he's a worse Greymane and a worse Fenix with only the Hyperion sweep to be a gamechanger.
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Apr 4, 2018 22:20
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Bogart posted:Yeah, as much as I love giving them some pepper, seeing it spelled out in the 40%/5 seconds to 30%/30 seconds regard, combined with all the other poo poo Fenix can do...like, he's a worse Greymane and a worse Fenix with only the Hyperion sweep to be a gamechanger. Didn't the Fenix video say Raynor was a counter? Lol I was playing QM against a raynor that must have watched that video because he kept trying to lane against me. I killed him 1v1 3 times and took down the fort. There was literally nothing he could do and I felt kinda bad (but not really)
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Apr 4, 2018 22:32
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Is there some trick to getting Thralls crash lightning stacks? Just seems like RNG as to whether it actually goes to another hero.
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Apr 4, 2018 22:43
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No Wave posted:Raynor trait: 30 percent healing, 30 second cooldown and the fact that one of those can happen in combat and the other requires not taking damage for several seconds means nothing
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Apr 4, 2018 22:43
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Is there some trick to getting Thralls crash lightning stacks? Just seems like RNG as to whether it actually goes to another hero. Use it after the wave is cleared so the only targets are heroes. Or when the wave has like one minion left(on the minion) so it bounces to the heroes.
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Apr 4, 2018 22:47
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Raynor trait: Raynor has 1 less attack range than Hanzo.
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Apr 4, 2018 22:48
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Fenix's trait is more of a Muradin trait in shield form. Raynor's heal is more of just something that might happen if you get poked too much because it isn't going to stop you from get bursted down. I honestly think a good design place for Raynor if they want to keep him super newb-friendly is embrace that he's a slow guy in power armor. Make him a hell of a lot more tanky than he is - Higher base HP, maybe some armor talents, things that make Inspire give some defense. Make the heal activate-able by default(but it still goes off automatically if not used). Maybe make Seasoned Marksman base line - if he's how you teach new players, give them incentive to do more than just go into a clusterfuck in mid. Give him bonus damage to minions via talent to make him really, really good at building up stacks. Turn him by default into a slow and steady character who gradually becomes a monster if left unchecked. He essentially becomes a sort of lumbering blunt object compared to the precision strikes of Tracer and other speedy ranged assassins. Fits the character - nothing fancy, but gets the job done.
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Apr 4, 2018 22:58
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Dietrich posted:Use it after the wave is cleared so the only targets are heroes. Or when the wave has like one minion left(on the minion) so it bounces to the heroes. If there are only heroes in the area should it only bounce to heroes? I must be confused about the bounce range because I was tossing it into groups around the Tribute on whatever the trib map is, and would pretty rarely get a bounce stack.
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Apr 4, 2018 23:07
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That sounds like the Butcher but without crazy snowballing and without penalty of death.
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Apr 4, 2018 23:09
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SirSamVimes posted:and the fact that one of those can happen in combat and the other requires not taking damage for several seconds means nothing No Wave fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 23:24
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The thing with Fenix is he does damage like a higher skill cap assassin, but is really easy to play. Like there's no reason to play Kaelthas or Li Ming, since Fenix can just sit and use his ball attack.
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Apr 4, 2018 23:32
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I'm not sure whether to be impressed or upset.
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Apr 4, 2018 23:33
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You can never play him again.
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Apr 4, 2018 23:50
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I started writing an effortpost about why Tassadar on Blackheart's Bay is great and then it wound up being loving enormous so here's a Google Document containing said effortpost for those interested.
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Apr 4, 2018 23:58
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appropriatemetaphor posted:The thing with Fenix is he does damage like a higher skill cap assassin, but is really easy to play. Like there's no reason to play Kaelthas or Li Ming, since Fenix can just sit and use his ball attack. I’m not sure that follows.
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Apr 5, 2018 00:34
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Kith posted:I started writing an effortpost about why Tassadar on Blackheart's Bay is great and then it wound up being loving enormous so here's a Google Document containing said effortpost for those interested. I'll have to give this a shot, thanks for this.
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Apr 5, 2018 01:30
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I dunno at least KT and Li Ming you have to aim to get damage?
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Apr 5, 2018 01:51
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appropriatemetaphor posted:I dunno at least KT and Li Ming you have to aim to get damage? The flip side is that there are generally more readily available and low-effort ways to make an autoattacker miserable in draft, from blinds to blocks to physical armor.
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Apr 5, 2018 01:59
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The problem is they completely shifted their design of heroes where before one hero did something really well but had a significant trade off. The popular heroes now, most of them being newer heroes, have practically no trade off. This may be one of the least balanced moments in the game, if you take into the account the gigantic gap between the worst and best heroes right now
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Apr 5, 2018 02:31
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They also started running out of ideas for unique abilities, so a lot of the newer stuff winds up with something that would've been a Talent for any other character. Compare Maiev's Spirit of Vengeance with Sylvanas's Haunting Wave - the core abilities are almost mechanically identical, except that Maiev's comes back and Sylvanas's doesn't. It also doesn't help that Spirit of Vengeance costs 25 less Mana and has a cooldown that's 1 second shorter.
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Apr 5, 2018 02:57
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Kith posted:I started writing an effortpost about why Tassadar on Blackheart's Bay is great and then it wound up being loving enormous so here's a Google Document containing said effortpost for those interested. Jesus Christ, 13 pages on a map that is out of ranked rotation.
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Apr 5, 2018 03:34
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Kith posted:They also started running out of ideas for unique abilities, so a lot of the newer stuff winds up with something that would've been a Talent for any other character. Compare Maiev's Spirit of Vengeance with Sylvanas's Haunting Wave - the core abilities are almost mechanically identical, except that Maiev's comes back and Sylvanas's doesn't. It also doesn't help that Spirit of Vengeance costs 25 less Mana and has a cooldown that's 1 second shorter. to undermine your point, the whole purpose of haunting wave is that it’s a huge cone shaped application of sylvanas’s trait. I mean, maiev is an assassin, her poo poo is supposed to be better for teamfighting and hunting down dudes. sylvanas shits all over minions and haunting wave is a part of that.
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Apr 5, 2018 03:43
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:to undermine your point, the whole purpose of haunting wave is that it’s a huge cone shaped application of sylvanas’s trait. I mean, maiev is an assassin, her poo poo is supposed to be better for teamfighting and hunting down dudes. sylvanas shits all over minions and haunting wave is a part of that. What? No, the purpose of haunting wave is that it's an escape. If you're using it to apply the trait, you're making yourself incredibly vulnerable.
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Apr 5, 2018 03:45
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Haunting Wave is a really weird and dumb ability from a design perspective imo precisely because someone new to the game is inclined to look at it and go "oh neat I can hit a minion wave with this" when that's very much not what you ought to be doing with it. I'm not really sure why it does damage in the first place given that its intended purpose is as an escape ability, whereas Spirit of Vengeance can function as an escape but is just as likely to be used as an engagement or even poke damage depending on how people react to the spirit coming towards them (and using it that way doesn't leave Maiev vulnerable since she still has her vault).
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Apr 5, 2018 03:58
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lucifirius posted:Jesus Christ, 13 pages on a map that is out of ranked rotation. For a niche application of an undertuned Support in a role that's not supporting, no less. Orthodox Rabbit posted:I'll have to give this a shot, thanks for this. It works really, really, really, really well when the enemy team underestimates you. The problem is that, half the time, your team also underestimates you and they won't loving leave you alone, which drastically weakens the 4-man. If you're going to do it, do it with a group of like-minded people who won't gently caress everything up out of misguided concern for you. DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:to undermine your point, the whole purpose of haunting wave is that it’s a huge cone shaped application of sylvanas’s trait. I mean, maiev is an assassin, her poo poo is supposed to be better for teamfighting and hunting down dudes. sylvanas shits all over minions and haunting wave is a part of that. I'd buy that if Shadow Dagger didn't exist. Haunting Wave applying the effects of Black Arrow is pretty much only for consistency's sake, not for any real practical value.
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Apr 5, 2018 04:04
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Kith posted:I'd buy that if Shadow Dagger didn't exist. Haunting Wave applying the effects of Black Arrow is pretty much only for consistency's sake, not for any real practical value. Dreadful Wake. Of course, that's a stupid loving talent, but clearly somebody thought you should be using E on minions at least some of the time.
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Apr 5, 2018 06:43
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I have to say, I think I played someone that did read that document. Unranked this evening I was playing Murky* as the solo Mid/Top and found their Tassadar doing the same for a short while. I couldn't pressure and used the Towers to back me up, but did tie in XP. Eventually their team came up and then it unraveled for them tho, as our coordinated pressure in bottom lane unbalanced it and the few times I did get got, popped right back into soaking. - No real rumors about the reveal today?
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Apr 5, 2018 07:57
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