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i didnt seek out the position of PM but my colleagues have persuaded me that it's for the best of the party and this great nation of australia, so i accept the position of PM
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Apr 5, 2018 11:40
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Visidan posted:i didnt seek out the position of PM but my colleagues have persuaded me that it's for the best of the party and the savage nation of South Africa, so i accept the position of PM
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Apr 5, 2018 11:41
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Thanks for that Mexico UBI link, it was interesting. Another question - wouldn’t a traditional welfare system be better at wealth redistribution? If I’m poor does my UBI get topped up through other welfare programs or is that it? UBI sounds cool in theory but it seems like some Redditor utopia that will never actually happen. A better welfare system sounds like a more realistic outcome to hope for although I understand our hands will be forced by automation at some point. That said we’re doing gently caress all about climate change so we’re not going to be any better about proactively dealing with automation either.
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Apr 5, 2018 11:55
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hooman posted:I think that a trial case across a broad spectrum of population with a statistically significant number of participants would be the most you could do, right? that’s the point; there’s no way to comprehensively trial UBI without actually doing it. from my perspective, what differentiates UBI compared to even the most sweeping reforms is that it creates a society where unilaterally stopping work is a survivable long term option for the entire population (as opposed to just the wealthy elite), which i don’t think we’ve ever seen on a large scale in basically all of human history. the fearmongering that everyone will give up and jerk off all day is horseshit because there are many more reasons to work than to earn just enough money to survive, but we’ll still need to consider what the effects will be of a significant portion of the population leaving the labour market to pursue their passions. wages will need to be dramatically realigned; if you didn’t need to work to survive, how much money would you need to pay someone to get them to clean toilets? how much to work a lovely retail job? these aren’t dealbreakers by any means but they need to be addressed (maybe they have already but i’m incredibly lazy and cant be bothered finding out)
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Apr 5, 2018 11:56
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There would be some absolutely ball tearing ACDC cover bands under ubi so I say do it.
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Apr 5, 2018 11:59
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Oh poo poo 260 new posts is a spill on (has to read 200 posts to find a spill mention that lasts 10 replies) For fucks sake i should never have brought attention to that crikey article.
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Apr 5, 2018 12:01
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BBJoey posted:if you didn’t need to work to survive, how much money would you need to pay someone to get them to clean toilets? how much to work a lovely retail job? when minimum wage was introduced in australia, it was enough to feed, house and clothe a man, woman and three children on a single income. maybe it should be once again.
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Apr 5, 2018 12:01
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bandaid.friend posted:https://www.pedestrian.tv/bites/taco-bell-planning-explosive-expansion-australia/ I live one suburb over and there has been lines out the door for months. It's unbelievable.
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Apr 5, 2018 12:03
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Hollandia posted:I live one suburb over and there has been lines out the door for months. It's unbelievable. Yet again Australians manage to answer the question "how loving stupid are Australians?"
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Apr 5, 2018 12:06
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Lid posted:Oh poo poo 260 new posts is a spill on (has to read 200 posts to find a spill mention that lasts 10 replies) It's not just here, I came from seeing a Twitter storm to seeing 200+ new posts here and someone is definitely trying to stir the pot.
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Apr 5, 2018 12:10
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bigis posted:Another question - wouldn’t a traditional welfare system be better at wealth redistribution? If I’m poor does my UBI get topped up through other welfare programs or is that it? It's hard to say whether it's better given nobody's actually implemented it on the scale being talked about. It's got some promising aspects (both in theory and, crucially, in practice) and that makes it worth considering.
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Apr 5, 2018 12:20
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Introduce it in my suburb. I will test this dangerous system.
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Apr 5, 2018 12:25
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Night Shade posted:when minimum wage was introduced in australia, it was enough to feed, house and clothe a man, woman and three children on a single income. maybe it should be once again. Hahahah holy poo poo, how much would this be now?
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Apr 5, 2018 12:29
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hooman posted:Hahahah holy poo poo, how much would this be now? $120k is my guess.
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Apr 5, 2018 12:32
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JBP posted:$120k is my guess.  It was originally 7s/day in 1908, which the RBA's inflation calculator lists as $48.50/day as of last year but there's no way that's actually enough for a family of five with modern costs of living. Scarily, it's only $30/week less than Newstart. e: it's almost exactly partnered newstart. holy poo poo Night Shade fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Apr 5, 2018 |
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Apr 5, 2018 12:36
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You'd think business owners would understand: Higher wages - More spending of disposable income beyond simple commodities and bills = More growth and income.
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Apr 5, 2018 12:41
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Don't you understand we need to give the money to the job creators so they can use it to consider hiring a new person and instead buy a Porsche
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Apr 5, 2018 12:52
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G-Spot Run posted:Don't you understand we need to give the money to the job creators so they can use it to consider hiring a new person and instead buy a Porsche Look have a heart for them ok? Those trips to South East Asia to snort cocaine off the bottom of an under age prostitute don't pay for themselves.
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Apr 5, 2018 12:55
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DancingShade posted:Look have a heart for them ok? Those trips to South East Asia to snort cocaine off the bottom of an under age prostitute don't pay for themselves. The only thing trickling down here is the jizz of the old fucker streaking down the prostitutes rear end
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Apr 5, 2018 12:56
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Night Shade posted:
If you literally just wanted to be clothed, and housed then it could be a reasonable amount but that isn't a realistic target nowadays.
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Apr 5, 2018 13:01
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BBJoey posted:that’s the point; there’s no way to comprehensively trial UBI without actually doing it. If you read into the Finland model they have provisions which reduce the amount of UBI received by those not actively working or studying for work purposes. In 2018 this is just under a 5% difference over workers. But it highlights the issue of people being able to make a decision to not work and still survive comfortably. For the system to really work on a large scale, it’s likely that you’d need to structure it to “force” people into labour markets which aren’t enjoyable. I don’t personally believe it can be introduced overnight without creating labour shortages. I do believe a progressive UBI introduction could work as it would stabilise the labour losses in higher-risk industries. The model does work, and we could create a situation where no-one in the country lives below the poverty line; but not with a single sweeping introduction.
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Apr 5, 2018 13:20
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Hollandia posted:I live one suburb over and there has been lines out the door for months. It's unbelievable. They're charging almost as much as the other Mexican chains for food that barely looks better than the last time they tried (which was blander than 90's food court Mexican). Remember when Krispy Kreme seemed like it was a big thing?
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Apr 5, 2018 13:27
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Tokamak posted:Remember when Krispy Kreme seemed like it was a big thing? In SA this was like 2 years ago.
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Apr 5, 2018 13:31
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Tokamak posted:They're charging almost as much as the other Mexican chains for food that barely looks better than the last time they tried (which was blander than 90's food court Mexican). Remember when Krispy Kreme seemed like it was a big thing? I remember Krispy Kreme's sugared up coffees were loving great when I was 20 and could drink that poo poo. I'd even add booze and feel like an adult.
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Apr 5, 2018 13:35
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Pinball Jizzard posted:For the system to really work on a large scale, it’s likely that you’d need to structure it to “force” people into labour markets which aren’t enjoyable. I believe the only "forcing" would be UBI, by its inherent nature, forcing industry to finally pay people in undesirable or high risk jobs at a much higher rate. And I think that's great. If industry finds themselves with a sudden labour shortage, they can be agile and respond by offering workers much better pay and conditions.
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Apr 5, 2018 13:38
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I think one of the interesting areas of implementing UBI would be discovering which jobs are worth doing, and which are areas people legitimately want to work in. Would be fascinating to see what happens to poo poo low paying jobs when they don't have a constant stream of applicants trying to keep a roof over their heads. Also how much you have to pay someone before they consider doing them. e. beaten like Turnbull in 30 consecutive polls.
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Apr 5, 2018 13:39
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Senor Tron posted:In SA this was like 2 years ago. Same with WA when we got stores Everyone stocked up when flying back from Syd or Melb Now nobody gives 2 shits about Krispy Kreme
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Apr 5, 2018 13:40
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Pinball Jizzard posted:but not with a single sweeping introduction. well if we can't do it like that then what's the loving point?! lets all just sit here and wait for the rising beach to consume us all
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Apr 5, 2018 13:45
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I've spent the best part of the last fortnight urgently trying to track down a 98-year-old former actor to ask him if he molested Judy Garland.
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Apr 5, 2018 13:59
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Welp I just saw the words "angel investor" and you're all screwed nothing good will ever happen good night.
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Apr 5, 2018 14:01
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JBP posted:Welp I just saw the words "angel investor" and you're all screwed nothing good will ever happen good night. I saw Ozark, don't do it.
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Apr 5, 2018 14:06
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Tokamak posted:They're charging almost as much as the other Mexican chains for food that barely looks better than the last time they tried (which was blander than 90's food court Mexican). Remember when Krispy Kreme seemed like it was a big thing? Meanwhile, my gf works in West End next to a Mexican family who hand make great & authentic food with ingredients from their farm; they kinda scrape by. :Brischat:
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Apr 5, 2018 14:13
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IMO if you eat taco Bell when GyG is a thing and aren't expressly trying to poo poo yourself in public then you're probably still not as poo poo as some of the posters ITT
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Apr 5, 2018 14:15
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Gorilla Salad posted:I believe the only "forcing" would be UBI, by its inherent nature, forcing industry to finally pay people in undesirable or high risk jobs at a much higher rate. The problem is that most undesirable jobs are part of the food supply chain (and others but food would be most problematic). Farming, truck driving, warehousing, store clerks as examples. The moment the wages are forced to go up here, the more the companies selling will charge which leads to higher UBI requirements. The alternative is further automation, but I said before. We aren’t there yet. Until undesirable roles are removed from the supply chains of food, clothing and education; UBI is not something that’s an instant fix all. GoldStandardConure posted:well if we can't do it like that then what's the loving point?! lets all just sit here and wait for the rising beach to consume us all By introducing UBI slowly, you can focus on making it actually work. The Finland model is continually being developed and I imagine the above is one of the primary reasons why.
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Apr 5, 2018 14:17
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Make better 3D printers so everyone can manufacture whatever they need or want, including other 3D printers. Robots do all the work. Recreation time, all the time. Then we become the lard buckets in Wall-E and die out.
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Apr 5, 2018 14:34
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:I've spent the best part of the last fortnight urgently trying to track down a 98-year-old former actor to ask him if he molested Judy Garland. Hey, I totally read that thing! I enjoyed it.
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Apr 5, 2018 14:47
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remember to put your super into Au stocks asap guys edit: also this UBI poo poo falls apart when you realize the rich people talking about this will never give enough money to it so it'll effectively create a huge underclass that will likely have no class mobility over generations and will be stuck in UBI hell forever. gucci bane fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Apr 5, 2018 |
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Apr 5, 2018 14:54
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I missed 200 posts- #auspol says It's On on Monday - Dutton for PM, Bishop for deputy, but these are from 9 hours ago. Nothing on the news sites though? https://twitter.com/WorldOfMarkyD/status/981068187612545024 #libspill has arguments going both ways, but someone is plotting. Comstar fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Apr 5, 2018 |
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Apr 5, 2018 14:57
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Maybe you should read the 200 posts
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Apr 5, 2018 15:30
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Pinball Jizzard posted:Farming, truck driving, warehousing, store clerks as examples. All of these are currently easily automated or are in the process of having the tech developed to do so. The reason they are not yet commonly automated is because it's still cheaper to pay gently caress all to get a human to do it. Where you see things being automated are areas where workers are traditionally heavily unionised and well paid. The larger ports in the world for example are already replacing stevedores with robots (both cranes and trucks moving containers around the ports are automated) and as the tech gets cheaper and/or wages go up you'll see it spread to other, smaller ports. It's the ultimate Union buster. I'm pretty sure a UBI would push wages up causing businesses to automate faster, and removing the menial roles that nobody wants to do.
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Apr 5, 2018 15:44
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