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Pretty much every multiplayer game ever has unbalanced bullshit at any given time, it just depends on the current patch. Even Brood War took years to properly balance. Stop being such silly reactionary nerds.
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Apr 5, 2018 20:29
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How many of you guys saying the game is fine play hero league as your main game mode? More than 50 games in a season.
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Apr 5, 2018 20:32
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Top 10 heroes by win ratepre:#: Name Win Rate Pick+Ban Rate 1: Fenix 63.4% |++++++++++ PBBBBBBB (93.9%) 2: Tracer 55.9% |++++++ P (24.0%) 3: Probius 55.0% |+++++ (1.5%) 4: Thrall 54.2% |++++ PP (30.2%) 5: Xul 53.7% |++++ (5.3%) 6: Sgt. Hammer 53.3% |+++ (4.5%) 7: Nazeebo 52.6% |+++ PP (30.5%) 8: Li Li 52.6% |+++ PP (35.4%) 9: Ragnaros 52.6% |+++ (11.3%) 10: Samuro 52.4% |++ (4.1%) pre:#: Name Ban Rate Win Rate 1: Fenix ########## (78%) |++++++++++ (63.4%) 2: Maiev #### (34%) | (49.5%) 3: Stukov ## (23%) |+ (50.8%) 4: Chromie ## (18%) --| (48.3%) 5: Malfurion ## (17%) |+ (50.5%) 6: Diablo ## (17%) |++ (52.0%) 7: Genji ## (16%) -----| (45.3%) 8: Kael'thas # (15%) | (49.6%) 9: Varian # (13%) --| (47.6%) 10: Hanzo # (11%) ---| (46.6%)
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Apr 5, 2018 20:35
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Genji and Hanzo are extremely annoying to play against, along with Tracer and Chromie. Badly designed, not easy to counterplay.
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Apr 5, 2018 20:38
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beejay posted:Genji and Hanzo are extremely annoying to play against, along with Tracer and Chromie. Badly designed, not easy to counterplay. The numbers indicate otherwise. Except for tracer, who should be a higher priority ban.
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Apr 5, 2018 20:41
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As a guy who plays Muradin all the time the idea of a Tracer is loving surreal and makes me laugh on my rear end.
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Apr 5, 2018 20:42
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beejay posted:How many of you guys saying the game is fine play hero league as your main game mode? More than 50 games in a season. I think the game is fine and I play hero league almost exclusively. I mean Fenix needs a nerf, but the game as a whole is fun and good.
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Apr 5, 2018 20:42
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Dietrich posted:The numbers indicate otherwise. Except for tracer, who should be a higher priority ban. Ok, well you asked why they are banned so much. That's why I ban them and almost every stream I watch is the same. It's not enjoyable to play vs these characters. I do think that bans should be used strategically to ban counters, stop synergies, and so forth, but with the game as is, a lot of people are choosing to ban stuff that's not fun to play against. It doesn't mean everyone who plays those heroes is good at them.
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Apr 5, 2018 20:45
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beejay posted:Ok, well you asked why they are banned so much. That's why I ban them and almost every stream I watch is the same. It's not enjoyable to play vs these characters. I do think that bans should be used strategically to ban counters, stop synergies, and so forth, but with the game as is, a lot of people are choosing to ban stuff that's not fun to play against. It doesn't mean everyone who plays those heroes is good at them. That's bound to happen in a game with that many heroes I'd think. I also ban based on what I hate playing against. For example, I hate fighting Lucio. He drives me crazy. But he's not necessarily any better than healers I don't mind playing against, which is also true for the bans you mentioned based on their win rates. It sounds more like a personal issue rather than a core issue with the game.
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Apr 5, 2018 20:50
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Midnightghoul posted:Their balance and dev team is just straight up not up to the standard that a lot of Blizzard games are used to, and the lack of communication (or baffling reasoning on some things they do communicate, i.e. Ana's recent nerfs) and inability to fix things from PTR->Live is really compounding right now into frustration in the community. The game is not terrible by any means or dead, but it's been in noticeable decline lately. Blizzard has balance standards? Have I been away from Overwatch long enough that people aren't constantly bitching about Mercy anymore? Also even League of Legends pretty regularly lets poo poo slip from PTR to live. Even with a proportionally larger playerbase, they still don't get enough people testing to generate enough data to make sound balance decisions. PTR will never not be more about making sure the latest hero doesn't crash the game or instantly kill the entire enemy team when they press E than careful balancing.
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Apr 5, 2018 20:53
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These last two releases were incredibly bad by any game's standards... that shouldnt really be a controversial opinion
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Apr 5, 2018 20:55
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John Murdoch posted:Blizzard has balance standards? Have I been away from Overwatch long enough that people aren't constantly bitching about Mercy anymore? "As an example of how Blizzard doesn't care about balance, I will cite the hero who has had the most balance tweaks in Overwatch"
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Apr 5, 2018 20:55
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John Murdoch posted:Blizzard has balance standards? Have I been away from Overwatch long enough that people aren't constantly bitching about Mercy anymore? After a couple of tries they finally got her in a place where I think she's fine now. She's not mandatory to have anymore, and it's no longer a situation where if the other team has a Mercy and you don't, you are 100% going to lose. The problem with Blizzard is that they loving drag their feet with balancing things. They nerfed Doomfist really hard and have been taking FOREVER to make him good again. They dragged their feet with nerfing Mercy. They are, in my opinion, REALLY dragging their feet with Orisa (I think her shield is loving ridiculous). Blizzard just needs to learn that they don't have to sit on balance decisions forever
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Apr 5, 2018 20:59
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Macaluso posted:After a couple of tries they finally got her in a place where I think she's fine now. She's not mandatory to have anymore, and it's no longer a situation where if the other team has a Mercy and you don't, you are 100% going to lose. Yeah, and pro play agrees - she shows up sometimes, in situations where she can res safely or teams are more comfortable with her than other options, but she's not a universal presence. (That universal presence is now Zenyatta.  )
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Apr 5, 2018 21:02
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SirSamVimes posted:"As an example of how Blizzard doesn't care about balance, I will cite the hero who has had the most balance tweaks in Overwatch" The most balance tweaks...because they got it wrong several times in a row and people endlessly bitched until they got it mostly right. I also don't think it was ever a question of whether Blizzard cares about balance, because that position is nonsensical. I was mainly just wondering where this mythical Blizzard was that never makes balance mistakes or inexplicable changes out of the blue, because I'm pretty sure I've heard those complaints about almost every Blizzard game ever. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Apr 5, 2018 |
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Apr 5, 2018 21:10
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I like the slow-to-action balance approach. Broodwar meta changed drastically over years with almost no changes. But maybe I'm from a different era. No games I played growing up ever got balance patches. People learned to beat Kirby in smash 64 and how not to get cannon rushed in Broodwar. I know that's not the same as a MOBA but sometimes letting players figure things out is better than just reactionary nerfing and buffing things because enough people on the internet whined about it. People complained endlessly about double support, they nerf supports, now everyone thinks the game is too bursty. You'll never please everyone. They still need to tune Fenix's numbers though.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:10
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ToastyPotato posted:I think that is a given now since they had the VA come in for the hero. So that's cool. And he already has experience announcing things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIeTZG_G0e0
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Apr 5, 2018 21:11
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Elysium posted:Ancient Blessings + Tracer. And you thought she was broken before... Blizz rep says there's an internal 1 second cd: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/8a1a5k/deckard_cain_full_talents_and_abilities/dwva1f8/
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Apr 5, 2018 21:12
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Macaluso posted:After a couple of tries they finally got her in a place where I think she's fine now. She's not mandatory to have anymore, and it's no longer a situation where if the other team has a Mercy and you don't, you are 100% going to lose. When there is a significant financial cost to pushing a patch for PS4 and XB1 then I can see why they drag their feet a bit to make sure the change is appropriate. This isn't like wow or hots where worst case they just tweak the numbers and wait a week.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:12
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lol yeah lorenado was an April Fool's thing in 2009 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuD5pgmtVs4
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Apr 5, 2018 21:13
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Does winrate for a mass ban character skew itself because letting it through is something only clueless teams do?
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Apr 5, 2018 21:22
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kater posted:Does winrate for a mass ban character skew itself because letting it through is something only clueless teams do? Probably. I also saw Psalm play a game of Fenix and he got absolutely bodied. N=1, I know, but I don't really think the community has fully figured this thing out in the 10 days he's been out.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:25
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There's no way of knowing, that's the sort of baseless claim people make when they're working an angle
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Apr 5, 2018 21:28
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Anyone else read "Lorenado" as "Lo-re-NA-do"? I figured he's Italian or something.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:30
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Anyone else read "Lorenado" as "Lo-re-NA-do"? I figured he's Italian or something. How would you pronounce Sharknado?
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Apr 5, 2018 21:32
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BrianBoitano posted:lol yeah lorenado was an April Fool's thing in 2009 Oh poo poo so this is what my buddy was talking about with how Cain should've been a skin for Malfurion and Twilight Dream should be replaced by "Shhh!"
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Apr 5, 2018 21:47
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Butter Hole posted:I like the slow-to-action balance approach. Broodwar meta changed drastically over years with almost no changes. I agree with you wholeheartedly. People always over react with every new hero release and expect instant gratification and for changes to achieve perfect 50% winrates immediately. It's just not going to happen. The developers don't work 24/7 and they have to figure out what to change and by how much to not ruin the character and make no one want to buy them after significant capital investment in developing the hero. HoTS has got a lot of new heroes since release. Some are overtuned on release, most have gotten fixed. Chill the gently caress out, we don't even have the primary data to rely just hotslogs.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:13
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I wonder how much of the first two week win rate is bound up in the fact that only people who play all the time are going to have 15k gold and/or spend money for the new hero.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:16
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Samu posted:I agree with you wholeheartedly. People always over react with every new hero release and expect instant gratification and for changes to achieve perfect 50% winrates immediately. It's just not going to happen. The developers don't work 24/7 and they have to figure out what to change and by how much to not ruin the character and make no one want to buy them after significant capital investment in developing the hero.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:21
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Samu posted:I agree with you wholeheartedly. People always over react with every new hero release and expect instant gratification and for changes to achieve perfect 50% winrates immediately. It's just not going to happen. The developers don't work 24/7 and they have to figure out what to change and by how much to not ruin the character and make no one want to buy them after significant capital investment in developing the hero. Nobody expects perfect 50% winrates, but maybe wanting something lower than 63% is reasonable.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:28
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Chill guys, so a character wins 2/3 of their games, can easily dominate hero damage and siege damage with great waveclear and has an escape and regenerating shields... big deal. It will get fixed sometime. I beat Battletoads on the NES without any so called "balance patches" and we didn't even have the internet. It's called 
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Apr 5, 2018 22:28
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how about we actually chill
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Apr 5, 2018 22:46
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Kerrzhe posted:how about we actually chill Back in my day of gaming we didn't have to be asked to chill
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Apr 5, 2018 22:50
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BrianBoitano posted:https://www.sporcle.com/games/Moai/nexus 100%, I feel bad. Almost 5 minutes left too.
Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Apr 5, 2018 |
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Apr 5, 2018 23:07
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It's cool that I'm good enough to win almost all qm matches as Fenix.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:08
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gently caress Sylvanas players that take Dreadful Wake. It's not a wave clearing ability, it's your escape.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:21
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Is Cain a late april fools joke or is he actually happening lolNameHurtBrain posted:Fenix's trait is more of a Muradin trait in shield form. Starcraft power armor is built as a prison first, spacesuit second, and armor third.  Why he's not a vulture is beyond me.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:21
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Except Jimmy was a lawman, so he can get into and out of his suit at will, and can modify it to be better.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:26
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Cuntellectual posted:Is Cain a late april fools joke or is he actually happening lol Actually happening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx0sZIIJ5Bc
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Apr 5, 2018 23:39
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A bunch of the pros streamers that I watch don't really see a place for Fenix in the pro meta.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:46
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