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McCloud posted:And does it make for a satisfying story to turn Luke into a monumental failure and to undo all his hard learned lessons from his previous movies? Given that TLJ rocks and is awesome: yes.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:54
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Brother Entropy posted:i mean, luke is turned into a failure just by the sequel trilogy being set so shortly after the originals. everything he fought for only lead to like, 20-30 years of the new republic before a new death star blew it all up. if that's a sin it's a sin of abrams' film, not johnson's for having to follow up abrams. TLJ just decided to actually explore how that failure would affect luke and in the end give him both a redemption and a way to leave things for the next generation without putting his death on the shoulders of the person he originally failed You're not wrong, and also a reason I intensely dislike TFA/TLJ, in that they utterly undo everything that was accomplished after Empire just to satisfy some nerd nostalgia. It's contemptible, and it might have limited the choices Johnson had in which direction to go with Luke, but I still find said choices very unsatisfying. I mean, I might have overlooked that if the rest of the movie was good, but between Finn repeating his arc again, the pointless Casino act, the uninspired imitation of Empire and Rotj and the stupidity involving Poe, there's just too many things dragging this movie down. Mr. Flunchy posted:Given that TLJ rocks and is awesome: yes. 
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Apr 6, 2018 00:02
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McCloud posted:This is correct, but I was more saying that the "Not my X" comparisons don't hold water for Luke, because we had 3 movies of characterization that gave us a pretty good idea of who he was as a person. The Superman in MoS is a new interpretation and has no such baggage. Luke was in three movies that came out over 34 years ago. You have a pretty good idea of who he is relative to those three movies and the unique narrative circumstances that inform this characterization. Both TLJ Luke and MoS Clark have relatively the same levels of cultural baggage, and both are new interpretations. The only difference is that one film entertains the notion that 34 years later you could be a completely different person. The process by which fans reject both is phenomenologically the same. The problem is precisely that they think by watching movies or reading comics a lot that they understand the 'essence' of a fictional person. But this essence never existed, it's an ideological fantasy. "Married! Jenny can't get married!" "Why? It's clever, it's unexpected--" "But that's not why people watch T.V.! Clever things make people feel stupid, and unexpected things make them feel scared!" "Attention, McNeil [a fictional person]! Your unexpected marriage plan scares us!"
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Apr 6, 2018 00:04
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  Snyder’s response to someone asking if the Flash from the Knightmare scene was inspired by Nietzsche’s “The Gay Science”.  Lex killed his dad? Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 00:07
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I'm always a big fan of people who describe their own work with 'I think' or 'we believe' and talk about it as if none of it is set in stone.
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Apr 6, 2018 00:10
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Snowman_McK posted:I'm always a big fan of people who describe their own work with 'I think' or 'we believe' and talk about it as if none of it is set in stone. "yeah this is just my interpretation of my own art, but, y'know, i'm dead"
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Apr 6, 2018 00:16
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Barudak posted:Theres also “if jumping to hyperspace is so goddamn deadly why dont more battles in Star Wars be suicide assaults” which got resolved via a goddamn Orange County Choppers meme 
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Apr 6, 2018 00:18
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goddamn that dude is always right
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Apr 6, 2018 00:19
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Probably shouldn’t be doing it in this thread, but it seems to make sense that the horrible things that Luke’s father did and what he experienced at the hands of his father shaped his world view to the point where he couldn’t allow that to happen again. That’s how it starts. Seeing the universe almost destroyed by the power of one man. Such things could turn good men... cruel. And thinking “drat, my mentor Yoda had the right idea, I should go live in solitude to get away from this bullshit” seems to fit.
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Apr 6, 2018 00:20
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Timby posted:Hamill is like exhibit 1 for why actors should act and let the writers write. I want to hear more insight into this, but as it pertains to Laserhawk and The Guyver.
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Apr 6, 2018 00:20
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:"yeah this is just my interpretation of my own art, but, y'know, i'm dead" Essentially yes. I reckon Snyder would be a rad dude to be sat next to on a plane. Like, he'd love to tell you about his stuff, but he'd love to hear what you thought it was about.
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Apr 6, 2018 00:49
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Hey, man, it's just a movie.
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Apr 6, 2018 00:53
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Man of Steel was the best dc movie they made and they will never make another as good.
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Apr 6, 2018 01:11
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Mr. Apollo posted:Speaking of which: Batman already acknowledges Superman had a (liberal hippy) mom, I think it was more about Batman realizing he wasn't Batman he was his own (impotent, gay) dad.
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Apr 6, 2018 01:14
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The alien, miraculously, uttered the source of his pain.
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Apr 6, 2018 01:16
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TLJ was cool, and good.
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Apr 6, 2018 01:30
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McCloud posted:You're not wrong, and also a reason I intensely dislike TFA/TLJ, in that they utterly undo everything that was accomplished after Empire just to satisfy some nerd nostalgia. It's actually the best part about the sequel trilogy in saying that just because the liberals won doesn't mean war is over.
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Apr 6, 2018 02:46
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porfiria posted:Batman already acknowledges Superman had a (liberal hippy) mom, I think it was more about Batman realizing he wasn't Batman he was his own (impotent, gay) dad. The absence of mothers is a recurring theme for both Batman and Luthor. Batman's died, and thus left him a nihilist (or gave him self justification as a nihilist) and Luthor's left, leaving him unprotected against his father.
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Apr 6, 2018 02:57
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Mr. Apollo posted:
Ah, further proof for my idea that Flash is/should be gay: the gayness of his science
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Apr 6, 2018 03:26
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With every semi-obscure cultural/artistic reference that Snyder makes, that image of him as a dumb dudebro jock gets funnier.
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Apr 6, 2018 04:08
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Pirate Jet posted:It's actually the best part about the sequel trilogy in saying that just because the liberals won doesn't mean war is over. I enjoy the hell out of the modern SW sequels for what they are, I also thought Johnson was able to push "the unheroic realities of war" theme as far as he could in a Disney film which was cool. Their biggest weakness is that everything has to be about the failures of the heros from the originals. Star Wars was always kind of a fairy tale (the opening is basically "once upon a time...") and it kind of sucks that their happy ending is so thoroughly ruined by their own hubris. It would have been better if the new war came from an outside source with them needing to step in to lead the new generation, or else they at least made a noble but fruitless attempt because their own good intentions and wisdom was not enough, instead of the whole thing being directly at their feet.
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Apr 6, 2018 05:07
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  And of course people are already jumping at Zack's throat for this.
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Apr 6, 2018 05:19
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:
What is there to jump down his throat over? I mean, I know there's a decent contingent of Batman fans who are loving idiots, but...I can't see it here, even hypothetically.
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Apr 6, 2018 05:58
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I wish you could link to Vero posts. Snyder had a picture of him hanging with people and I'm not sure if he's serious, he doesn't know him or if this guy just really looks like Alan Alda.  And there's no mention of it in the comments.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:01
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Snowman_McK posted:What is there to jump down his throat over? I mean, I know there's a decent contingent of Batman fans who are loving idiots, but...I can't see it here, even hypothetically. Grimdark, can't get the lore right, why kill Dick Grayson,etc.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:12
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Grimdark, can't get the lore right, why kill Dick Grayson,etc. "Doing something different with a character with 800 different, contradictory interpretations?" I mean, they've changed their mind what happened with Jason like 20 times but changing what happened to Dick is unnacceptable. 
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Apr 6, 2018 06:18
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Davros1 posted:Well, in Thor, you actually have god sending his son to Earth Prithee, what exactly about the movie is Shakespearean?
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Apr 6, 2018 06:19
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Prithee, what exactly about the movie is Shakespearean? funny hats. *nods sagely* It can't be Shakespearean, there aren't any dick jokes.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:21
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Snowman_McK posted:funny hats. Compared to Thor 3, the hat game in Thor 1 is weak. I don't even remember any hats from Thor 2, thus making it the weakest of the three.
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Apr 6, 2018 07:37
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Grendels Dad posted:Compared to Thor 3, the hat game in Thor 1 is weak. I don't even remember any hats from Thor 2, thus making it the weakest of the three. This is why Immortals and the Fall are better than all the Marvel movies: unparalleled hat game.  
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Apr 6, 2018 07:52
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Apr 6, 2018 07:53
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Immortals was rad. I wish Tarsem followed up with something cool and not that weird Snow White movie. Did anyone see that?
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Apr 6, 2018 07:55
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Guy A. Person posted:Their biggest weakness is that everything has to be about the failures of the heros from the originals. Star Wars was always kind of a fairy tale (the opening is basically "once upon a time...") and it kind of sucks that their happy ending is so thoroughly ruined by their own hubris. It would have been better if the new war came from an outside source with them needing to step in to lead the new generation, or else they at least made a noble but fruitless attempt because their own good intentions and wisdom was not enough, instead of the whole thing being directly at their feet. See, this icky stuff about the older generation having to "step in to lead the new generation" is exactly why TLJ (and BvS and many other superhero movies) are full of Dad figures who've hosed up, abandoned their principles and closed themselves off from the world. It's because young people today are living in a world hosed up by Batman Dads who've collapsed into paranoia and emotional isolation and Luke Skywalker Dads whose long haired, wide eyed idealism has curdled into cynicism. The last thing that young demographics need to hear in a movie is "step aside kid, the grown-ups are here".
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Apr 6, 2018 08:18
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Mr. Flunchy posted:The last thing that young demographics need to hear in a movie is "step aside kid, the grown-ups are here". And yet is what people wants from their superheroes if the butchering of Superman in JL is any indication.
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Apr 6, 2018 08:30
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Prithee, what exactly about the movie is Shakespearean? Being directed by Branagh is pretty Shakespearean just by itself, to be fair.
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Apr 6, 2018 08:59
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josh04 posted:Being directed by Branagh is pretty Shakespearean just by itself, to be fair. How, specifically?
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Apr 6, 2018 09:02
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He's the big Shakespeare guy who directs lots of Shakespeare adaptations that he also acts in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u009U1q69A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IfYZZDTays The writing's obviously not nearly on the same level, but Branagh's knows what he's doing here. They both even literalise "dressing down" the same way.
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Apr 6, 2018 09:29
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CelticPredator posted:Immortals was rad. I wish Tarsem followed up with something cool and not that weird Snow White movie. Did anyone see that? I did. It doesn't have the energy of Immortals, but it's a solid and really pretty adaptation.
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Apr 6, 2018 11:34
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The Longinus thing is fairly straightforward, as is a lot of the Christ imagery (appearing as a 'sun sign', scene where he lays on hands, tugging the ship is not unlike dragging the cross to Cavalry, held in a pieta by Lois, etc), but you also have to consider the confrontation with Batman from the other perspective. There's an even more straightforward reference to a knight and a spear before Bruce is transformed by the humanity of a demigod: St. George trampling the Dragon, imagery beloved by anti-migrant hard right racists in Russia and England.
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Apr 6, 2018 13:33
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Snowman_McK posted:Essentially yes. I reckon Snyder would be a rad dude to be sat next to on a plane. Like, he'd love to tell you about his stuff, but he'd love to hear what you thought it was about. He likes talking about how cool other stuff is or looks and makes "boom, bang" noises when doing it. His social media posts are 180 from how he actually talks about film in person.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:27
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