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Ugly In The Morning posted:I get that, but imagine going back to a game you haven’t played before that came out before (roughly) standardized controls, or camera control being manageable. It’s rough. A remaster or something to bring a classic up to modern standards would be helpful. Bloodborne's camera has hosed me multiple times. I get that's because I'm locked on a boss, but they should've done something about that if you're including this mechanic in the game. Not me, but I've heard people complaining about Revengeance camera making it really hard to S a stage.
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Apr 6, 2018 00:05
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Samuringa posted:While the men at Platinum are unrepentantly lecherous, at the end of the day the Bayonetta designs were made by a woman. With the exception of the glasses and a few instructions, everything else came from her High Fashion Sketch Enzo owns.
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Apr 6, 2018 01:24
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Samuringa posted:Bloodborne's camera has hosed me multiple times. I get that's because I'm locked on a boss, but they should've done something about that if you're including this mechanic in the game. Maybe I'm imagining things because the dark souls camera is so bad, but I thought the camera in bloodborne was pretty good.
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Apr 6, 2018 02:21
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The real problem of game cameras is that there are only two states: invisible or "what the gently caress, game." Nier Automata had a really great camera for like 90% of its runtime and the sidescrolling/zeldacam transition was mostly bloody perfect but the forest and the castle are both solid contenders for the most forehead-slappy "well how was I supposed to even fuckin' see that" in recent gaming memory.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:38
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Go back and play Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time. Or any early 3-D Playstation stuff. Go and remember what a bad camera is like. Then you may return here, enlightened.
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Apr 6, 2018 13:00
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Mario 64 was fine. I don't like how a lot of modern cameras just have your character's back take up 2/3 of the screen, the Batman games are just one increasingly long zoom into his flat rear end
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Apr 6, 2018 13:10
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Mario 64 was fine. I don't like how a lot of modern cameras just have your character's back take up 2/3 of the screen, the Batman games are just one increasingly long zoom into his flat rear end
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Apr 6, 2018 13:20
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I actually really love that close behind the back camera view, and modern gaming has rewarded me aplomb.
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Apr 6, 2018 13:34
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Lately I've seen more cameras defaulting to being positioned directly behind the back pointing straight forward, so your character obscures whats immediately in front of you. You can still tilt the camera down slightly so you can see where you're going but if you let your finger off the stick it drifts back down to this useless position. Now I'm wondering if maybe I'm the weird one for preferring the camera be a bit higher and pointed at the ground in front of you so I can see where I'm going.
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Apr 6, 2018 13:44
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Agent355 posted:Lately I've seen more cameras defaulting to being positioned directly behind the back pointing straight forward, so your character obscures whats immediately in front of you. You can still tilt the camera down slightly so you can see where you're going but if you let your finger off the stick it drifts back down to this useless position. Now I'm wondering if maybe I'm the weird one for preferring the camera be a bit higher and pointed at the ground in front of you so I can see where I'm going. I find this super noticeable in open world GTA style games, mainly in vehicles. If I'm driving fast I always have to manually tilt the camera to see whats coming up. Drives me up the wall.
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Apr 6, 2018 13:59
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Part of me wonders if the reason the cameras default to "your character blocks half the screen" is because the higher ups want you to see the textures that they had their artists and programmers spend months on (and however much money) lovingly rendering in super high definition. Look at the texture of your characters clothing. Count the individual fibers. Look at it. LOOK AT IT! DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH WE SPENT WORKING ON THESE TEXTURES? LOVE THEM! Coincidentally, I prefer playing in first person mode whenever I can because that way I can see what the gently caress is in front of me.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:03
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It's a deliberate artistic choice that often coincides with the type of game you're trying to create. If your game features a central protagonist that evolves over the course of the story (TW3, Horizon, Uncharted, etc.) then an intimate third-person camera perspective helps to build empathy with that character over time. Seeing their reactions to events in the game world, getting hurt, their idiosyncracies, along with all the cool stuff they do in combat naturally makes your brain identify with them more. It's no mistake that games built around a charismatic lead all tend to have this third-person view.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:10
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Coincidentally, I usually can never tell where the gently caress I'm supposed to go in those types of games because they blew all their cash on Nathan Drake's realistic individual eyebrow hairs and forgot to put some "GO OVER HERE" level design in. Good level design should flow pretty naturally and that's being ignored in a lot of modern stuff and it bugs me is what I'm saying.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:16
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I had a different kind of camera problem in Seven: The Days Long Gone, it's third person but the camera is almost directly on top of you, looking down. You can move the camera left & right, but you can't tilt it down so that you can see a bit more of what's in front of you. It's a stealth game, I kinda want to see if there's a guard at the top of the stairs or not.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:17
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That reminded me about games like Horizon where for instance ledges you can reach are marked in some way, and a joke I saw about it in Awkward Zombie (it's actually the latest comic at the moment), and actually... I think it would be pretty cool if you could somehow interact with your surroundings to make them passable by simply giving them those 'passable/interactable/whateverable' signifier (ie in this case Aloy paints a ledge yellow and so can suddenly climb it when she couldn't before).
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Apr 6, 2018 14:21
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Jukebox Hero posted:Coincidentally, I usually can never tell where the gently caress I'm supposed to go in those types of games because they blew all their cash on Nathan Drake's realistic individual eyebrow hairs and forgot to put some "GO OVER HERE" level design in. I don't really have much trouble with the camera in The Witcher or Horizon but the Uncharted series is constantly full of these guess jumps where you're not sure if that 5-foot drop is going to land harmlessly or send Nate careening down the cliffside to his death. And it happens in EVERY single installment, such that you wonder who playtests these games and never points out that hey, it seems like players should be able to make this jump.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:21
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FactsAreUseless posted:Go back and play Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time. Or any early 3-D Playstation stuff. Go and remember what a bad camera is like. Then you may return here, enlightened. Yeah, I was thinking of the days when fifty percent of the reviews in EGM had the staff going “WHAT THE gently caress, CAMERA!” A bad camera now is usually annoying. In early 3D games, the camera was usually one of your greatest enemies. I ragequit more over camera shenanigans than actual difficulty.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:29
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Zanzibar Ham posted:That reminded me about games like Horizon where for instance ledges you can reach are marked in some way, and a joke I saw about it in Awkward Zombie (it's actually the latest comic at the moment), and actually... I think it would be pretty cool if you could somehow interact with your surroundings to make them passable by simply giving them those 'passable/interactable/whateverable' signifier (ie in this case Aloy paints a ledge yellow and so can suddenly climb it when she couldn't before). Problem is that having to hunt around for those drat ledges, and how poorly the colors stand out in certain landscapes. In many areas (the less-populated areas) the markings are white, and very hard to see, leading to lots of jumping impotently against a wall trying to find that one near-invisible handhold.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:32
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Morpheus posted:Problem is that having to hunt around for those drat ledges, and how poorly the colors stand out in certain landscapes. In many areas (the less-populated areas) the markings are white, and very hard to see, leading to lots of jumping impotently against a wall trying to find that one near-invisible handhold. It doesn't have to be ledges. Say there's a big monster skulking around in an area full of barrels. All of them are brown. So you paint them red somehow, and suddenly they're explosive and can help with fighting the monster! e: or you run into a recolor of an early monster, and this version is really super tough, so you spray it with the previous monster's colors and suddenly it's only as strong as that earlier monster was
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Apr 6, 2018 14:36
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Zanzibar Ham posted:That reminded me about games like Horizon where for instance ledges you can reach are marked in some way, and a joke I saw about it in Awkward Zombie (it's actually the latest comic at the moment), and actually... I think it would be pretty cool if you could somehow interact with your surroundings to make them passable by simply giving them those 'passable/interactable/whateverable' signifier (ie in this case Aloy paints a ledge yellow and so can suddenly climb it when she couldn't before). I see you also read Awkward Zombie.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:48
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marshmallow creep posted:I see you also read Awkward Zombie. And I see you also post on the Something Awful Forums.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:55
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marshmallow creep posted:I see you also read Awkward Zombie. I see you don't read posts.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:56
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Morpheus posted:Problem is that having to hunt around for those drat ledges, and how poorly the colors stand out in certain landscapes. In many areas (the less-populated areas) the markings are white, and very hard to see, leading to lots of jumping impotently against a wall trying to find that one near-invisible handhold. Yeah, that was my biggest problem with the game too. Well that and Aloy having the mass of a bowling ball and if you jump from a ledge she'll lose 60 health. I'm already terrible with directions, I don't need more help with that! Also, I never had issues getting lost in Uncharted personally, but to each their own.
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Apr 6, 2018 14:59
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RareAcumen posted:Also, I never had issues getting lost in Uncharted personally, but to each their own. Because Uncharted is perfectly linear ?
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Apr 6, 2018 15:01
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food court bailiff posted:I see you don't read posts. Who has time!?
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Apr 6, 2018 15:13
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Ni No Kuni 2 is fantastic in basically every way, except for Lofty. Holy poo poo does Lofty have the most obnoxious accent in both writing and voice acting. He also sucks as a character. Also there's an upgrade I can get so he gives me more blue balls and that's just terrible.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:27
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Kruller posted:Ni No Kuni 2 is fantastic in basically every way, except for Lofty. Holy poo poo does Lofty have the most obnoxious accent in both writing and voice acting. He also sucks as a character. Also there's an upgrade I can get so he gives me more blue balls and that's just terrible. I love Lofty, but only when he's not actually participating, because then he's just in the corner of the screen while characters are talking, with the dumbest loving looks on his face and it's hilarious. Also yes I thought the same thing when I saw that Blue Balls research.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:28
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Morpheus posted:I love Lofty, but only when he's not actually participating, because then he's just in the corner of the screen while characters are talking, with the dumbest loving looks on his face and it's hilarious. When he's silent, he's fantastic because he has the dumbest face. Any time he makes noise is awful.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:33
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Lofty looks like a 5 year old drew Lisa Simpson and now you can never unsee that.
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Apr 6, 2018 15:39
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FactsAreUseless posted:Mario 64 was definitely the best camera of its time, but there are plenty of places it doesn't keep up with you, like the sliding sections in the snow level near the start. The first Tomb Raider on PS1 before the analogue controllers came out 
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Apr 6, 2018 16:13
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Bloodborne’s camera is awful
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Apr 6, 2018 16:19
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I'm not lazy but gently caress you if you think i'm going to buy an entire system to protect the integrity of a videogame story. There's a lot more to life than having to play every videogame in an entire series in hopes that it manages to tell a coherent story, and choosing to not play videogames and do those things is the direct opposite of laziness. Almost every other plot thread in the game is self-contained, thats what a good editor does, so it's fair to expect that to happen on every level. Also, metal gear is the longest running unrebooted videogame franchise that has ever been, going all the way back to the NES era, so it's insane not to expect some concessions towards the average gamer for plot coherency.
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Apr 6, 2018 17:01
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Well, that came out of nowhere
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Apr 6, 2018 17:06
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Olaf The Stout posted:I'm not lazy but gently caress you if you think i'm going to buy an entire system to protect the integrity of a videogame story. There's a lot more to life than having to play every videogame in an entire series in hopes that it manages to tell a coherent story, and choosing to not play videogames and do those things is the direct opposite of laziness. Almost every other plot thread in the game is self-contained, thats what a good editor does, so it's fair to expect that to happen on every level. Also, metal gear is the longest running unrebooted videogame franchise that has ever been, going all the way back to the NES era, so it's insane not to expect some concessions towards the average gamer for plot coherency. Counterpoint: gently caress you for jumping into a long-running series and complaining it doesn't explain every detail from everything that's ever happened. If you're not interested in the story, go play something else. If you are, it's very easy to go back and play previous titles.
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Apr 6, 2018 17:07
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Olaf The Stout posted:I'm not lazy but gently caress you if you think i'm going to buy an entire system to protect the integrity of a videogame story. There's a lot more to life than having to play every videogame in an entire series in hopes that it manages to tell a coherent story, and choosing to not play videogames and do those things is the direct opposite of laziness. Almost every other plot thread in the game is self-contained, thats what a good editor does, so it's fair to expect that to happen on every level. Also, metal gear is the longest running unrebooted videogame franchise that has ever been, going all the way back to the NES era, so it's insane not to expect some concessions towards the average gamer for plot coherency. I agree, gently caress Kingdom Hearts!
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Apr 6, 2018 17:12
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Olaf The Stout posted:I'm not lazy but gently caress you if you think i'm going to buy an entire system to protect the integrity of a videogame story. There's a lot more to life than having to play every videogame in an entire series in hopes that it manages to tell a coherent story, and choosing to not play videogames and do those things is the direct opposite of laziness. Almost every other plot thread in the game is self-contained, thats what a good editor does, so it's fair to expect that to happen on every level. Also, metal gear is the longest running unrebooted videogame franchise that has ever been, going all the way back to the NES era, so it's insane not to expect some concessions towards the average gamer for plot coherency.
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Apr 6, 2018 17:13
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Nobody was saying you had to buy the system, just that your claims of "bloo bloo bloo it's impossible to play this game that is still available to buy brand new for under forty bucks and available used for multiple systems in every clearance bin in a GameStop ever" were really dumb. You didn't need to like, prove how dumb you are.
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Apr 6, 2018 17:15
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Just watch a lets play of the older games in a series if you don't want to jump back and play them or can't find them for sale?
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Apr 6, 2018 17:16
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Complaining about the fifth game in a series having plot points that only make sense if you're familiar with the rest of the series is pretty lol
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Apr 6, 2018 17:17
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Olaf The Stout posted:I'm not lazy but gently caress you if you think i'm going to buy an entire system to protect the integrity of a videogame story. There's a lot more to life than having to play every videogame in an entire series in hopes that it manages to tell a coherent story, and choosing to not play videogames and do those things is the direct opposite of laziness. Almost every other plot thread in the game is self-contained, thats what a good editor does, so it's fair to expect that to happen on every level. Also, metal gear is the longest running unrebooted videogame franchise that has ever been, going all the way back to the NES era, so it's insane not to expect some concessions towards the average gamer for plot coherency. oh no! this game makes no sense even though i jumped in at the end of a game that's notoriously unfinished and incomplete in a game series that might possiby be the most convoluted and mental game series in all of history  Do you read the end of a book then complain that it made no sense? edit : sorry it sounds like i'm jumping on you,but you are definitely a spadge.
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Apr 6, 2018 17:19
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